I'm the liberal elite. What is Trump going to give you cons? Convince me he's good for you.
- Thread starter Urohawk
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- Sep 13, 2002
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FAFO TOUR 2024 is going to be amusing to watch for those of us financially secure. Many leopards eating many faces.I voted for Harris and am disappointed in the outcome, but as I look at the Trump win and I know I'll come out ahead. So chalk one up on owning the libs!
I put 5K down on GEO, a private prison company. It's up 84%. I can see how this is going to go.
1. Illegals- what are they really doing? They aren't taking your jobs. You don't want to dig ditches, clean hotel rooms, be a maid, work in ameat packing plant, and work in a restarant kitchen. Deporting them will simply raise costs of the foods and goods you buy: Bad for you.
2. Tarrifs- These get passed to the consumer. If a Samsung washer that costs 650 now goes to 800, do you really think Maytag isn't going to raise the prices of their 650 washer to 775 to match the rest of the washing machine market? Do you think they are going to pass on the profit in the form of increased wages to their workers or are they going to profit the stock holders. Raises the costs of goods for you and casues inflation: Bad for you.
3. Universal healthcare- Democrats often support universal Healthcare. You voted against it. That makes me likely take a pay cut but but gives you free health care for your family: bad for me and good for you.
4. Corporate taxes- likely cut by Trump again. Last time he did this the majority of cuts went into company share holders and didn't trickle down to wages. Prices weren't reduced. This increases national debt. At some point the lone sharks will come for our kids: May not do much for you, likely screws our kids.
5. Income cuts for rich: Increases national debt. See above. Doesn't effect you other than keeps you making less with no benefits. Worsening wealth distribution. Trickle down didn't work for Reagan. It didn't work when Brownbeck did it for Kansas. The poorest 50% don't pay much anyway. Certainly helps me. Doesn't help you.
6. I want universal education and trade schools. I can pay for private school and my kids college. Trump wants to cut federal education programs: Hurts you.
So after all of this all I can conclude is that I'm crazy for not wanting to benefit from Trumps policies and generally favor taking a pay cut, and paying more taxes.
How is this helping the non college educated, low wage worker do better in this country?
Yes, you may be upset about diminishing religion, abortion, culture wars, dems calling you dumb, etc. Well, I guess you showed us.
Im willing to pay a bit more for products in they are made in USA.
If foreign products go up due to tariffs I'm fine shifting to US products that employ US people. I cant think of anything that is made elsewhere that we cant make or mine or create here.
We have gotten addicted to Chinese products and buy so much made there. I dont think it is a good idea to help fund an adversary.
The real question is what will be do with all the Harbor Freight stores if this takes place.
My guess is China gets where their bread is buttered and makes changes
If foreign products go up due to tariffs I'm fine shifting to US products that employ US people. I cant think of anything that is made elsewhere that we cant make or mine or create here.
We have gotten addicted to Chinese products and buy so much made there. I dont think it is a good idea to help fund an adversary.
The real question is what will be do with all the Harbor Freight stores if this takes place.
My guess is China gets where their bread is buttered and makes changes
We're already seeing an economic slowdown. Starting a massive tariff war could push us into recession.
That should include women’s choices. So you wanting the government out of social issues just showed that you don’t consider women’s rights an issue.
Trump's going to give us your PAIN! That's enough. 😆 🤣 😂 😹I voted for Harris and am disappointed in the outcome, but as I look at the Trump win and I know I'll come out ahead. So chalk one up on owning the libs!
I put 5K down on GEO, a private prison company. It's up 84%. I can see how this is going to go.
1. Illegals- what are they really doing? They aren't taking your jobs. You don't want to dig ditches, clean hotel rooms, be a maid, work in ameat packing plant, and work in a restarant kitchen. Deporting them will simply raise costs of the foods and goods you buy: Bad for you.
2. Tarrifs- These get passed to the consumer. If a Samsung washer that costs 650 now goes to 800, do you really think Maytag isn't going to raise the prices of their 650 washer to 775 to match the rest of the washing machine market? Do you think they are going to pass on the profit in the form of increased wages to their workers or are they going to profit the stock holders. Raises the costs of goods for you and casues inflation: Bad for you.
3. Universal healthcare- Democrats often support universal Healthcare. You voted against it. That makes me likely take a pay cut but but gives you free health care for your family: bad for me and good for you.
4. Corporate taxes- likely cut by Trump again. Last time he did this the majority of cuts went into company share holders and didn't trickle down to wages. Prices weren't reduced. This increases national debt. At some point the lone sharks will come for our kids: May not do much for you, likely screws our kids.
5. Income cuts for rich: Increases national debt. See above. Doesn't effect you other than keeps you making less with no benefits. Worsening wealth distribution. Trickle down didn't work for Reagan. It didn't work when Brownbeck did it for Kansas. The poorest 50% don't pay much anyway. Certainly helps me. Doesn't help you.
6. I want universal education and trade schools. I can pay for private school and my kids college. Trump wants to cut federal education programs: Hurts you.
So after all of this all I can conclude is that I'm crazy for not wanting to benefit from Trumps policies and generally favor taking a pay cut, and paying more taxes.
How is this helping the non college educated, low wage worker do better in this country?
Yes, you may be upset about diminishing religion, abortion, culture wars, dems calling you dumb, etc. Well, I guess you showed us.
Why do you believe you are "elite?" Is that you, PJ Flake?? As to your first point >I voted for Harris and am disappointed in the outcome, but as I look at the Trump win and I know I'll come out ahead. So chalk one up on owning the libs!
I put 5K down on GEO, a private prison company. It's up 84%. I can see how this is going to go.
1. Illegals- what are they really doing? They aren't taking your jobs. You don't want to dig ditches, clean hotel rooms, be a maid, work in ameat packing plant, and work in a restarant kitchen. Deporting them will simply raise costs of the foods and goods you buy: Bad for you.
2. Tarrifs- These get passed to the consumer. If a Samsung washer that costs 650 now goes to 800, do you really think Maytag isn't going to raise the prices of their 650 washer to 775 to match the rest of the washing machine market? Do you think they are going to pass on the profit in the form of increased wages to their workers or are they going to profit the stock holders. Raises the costs of goods for you and casues inflation: Bad for you.
3. Universal healthcare- Democrats often support universal Healthcare. You voted against it. That makes me likely take a pay cut but but gives you free health care for your family: bad for me and good for you.
4. Corporate taxes- likely cut by Trump again. Last time he did this the majority of cuts went into company share holders and didn't trickle down to wages. Prices weren't reduced. This increases national debt. At some point the lone sharks will come for our kids: May not do much for you, likely screws our kids.
5. Income cuts for rich: Increases national debt. See above. Doesn't effect you other than keeps you making less with no benefits. Worsening wealth distribution. Trickle down didn't work for Reagan. It didn't work when Brownbeck did it for Kansas. The poorest 50% don't pay much anyway. Certainly helps me. Doesn't help you.
6. I want universal education and trade schools. I can pay for private school and my kids college. Trump wants to cut federal education programs: Hurts you.
So after all of this all I can conclude is that I'm crazy for not wanting to benefit from Trumps policies and generally favor taking a pay cut, and paying more taxes.
How is this helping the non college educated, low wage worker do better in this country?
Yes, you may be upset about diminishing religion, abortion, culture wars, dems calling you dumb, etc. Well, I guess you showed us.
Simplified view:
OP: what's Trump going to give you cons?
Cons: hopefully nothing, we just want the government out of our way.
OP: what's Trump going to give you cons?
Cons: hopefully nothing, we just want the government out of our way.
We’ll see if anyone gripes or stays out of the way if farm subsidies are cut.
You definitely have a "simplified" view of things. The billionaires LOVE you for it.
Until you inevitably need help and then you will be screaming for a handout/bailout from the government. BAU for republicans
I voted for Harris and am disappointed in the outcome, but as I look at the Trump win and I know I'll come out ahead. So chalk one up on owning the libs!
I put 5K down on GEO, a private prison company. It's up 84%. I can see how this is going to go.
1. Illegals- what are they really doing? They aren't taking your jobs. You don't want to dig ditches, clean hotel rooms, be a maid, work in ameat packing plant, and work in a restarant kitchen. Deporting them will simply raise costs of the foods and goods you buy: Bad for you.
2. Tarrifs- These get passed to the consumer. If a Samsung washer that costs 650 now goes to 800, do you really think Maytag isn't going to raise the prices of their 650 washer to 775 to match the rest of the washing machine market? Do you think they are going to pass on the profit in the form of increased wages to their workers or are they going to profit the stock holders. Raises the costs of goods for you and casues inflation: Bad for you.
3. Universal healthcare- Democrats often support universal Healthcare. You voted against it. That makes me likely take a pay cut but but gives you free health care for your family: bad for me and good for you.
4. Corporate taxes- likely cut by Trump again. Last time he did this the majority of cuts went into company share holders and didn't trickle down to wages. Prices weren't reduced. This increases national debt. At some point the lone sharks will come for our kids: May not do much for you, likely screws our kids.
5. Income cuts for rich: Increases national debt. See above. Doesn't effect you other than keeps you making less with no benefits. Worsening wealth distribution. Trickle down didn't work for Reagan. It didn't work when Brownbeck did it for Kansas. The poorest 50% don't pay much anyway. Certainly helps me. Doesn't help you.
6. I want universal education and trade schools. I can pay for private school and my kids college. Trump wants to cut federal education programs: Hurts you.
So after all of this all I can conclude is that I'm crazy for not wanting to benefit from Trumps policies and generally favor taking a pay cut, and paying more taxes.
How is this helping the non college educated, low wage worker do better in this country?
Yes, you may be upset about diminishing religion, abortion, culture wars, dems calling you dumb, etc. Well, I guess you showed us.
1. Immigration and Jobs- You're right that many Americans don't want low-paying, labor-intensive jobs. However, the issue with illegal immigration isn't just about job competition—it's also about the strain on public resources, education, healthcare, and local economies. Personally, I've been a staunch supporter of tighter border security, e.g., mines, moats, artillery, etc. for the latter, but I also recognize most Americans don't want to mow my lawn.
2. Tariffs- Tariffs do raise consumer costs, but they can also incentivize domestic production and protect key industries. While the implementation matters (and hasn’t always been perfect), the principle of encouraging American manufacturing and reducing dependency on foreign economies—especially those with questionable labor practices—has long-term benefits for national security and economic resilience. <---at least that's what is supposed to happen, but again John Smith making computer chips will demand a much higher salary, benefits, etc.. than Li Wei will
3. Universal Healthcare- Bottom line, the cons are concerned about how it's implemented. Government-run programs often suffer from inefficiencies, long arse wait times, and slower medical advancements or fewer new treatments.. A market-driven approach with competitive pricing and transparency might offer a middle ground. I'm really torn on this one.
EDIT: Where do you see Big Pharma in this?
4. Corporate Taxes- Cutting corporate taxes can/should drive economic growth by attracting investment and encouraging businesses to expand, which could lead to more jobs. Sadly, I agree that benefits haven't "trickled down" as intended (I remember the first year AT&T immediately gave all employees a $1K bonus, but that was the end of the trickle).
5. Income cuts for rich- Yup. See above.
6. Education- Federal education programs are important, but local control and parental involvement are also key to improving outcomes. That said, I honestly don't have a solid answer on this one other than to say if we want tariffs and bring jobs home, we need to train a labor force to do these things. When I hire a plumber, that dude is expensive, so let's implement more Mike Rowe-types to push trade schools and teachers to stop pushing college so hard. Not everyone needs a Masters degree.
On cultural and social issues, I agree that divisiveness isn’t helping anyone. But these concerns about religion, abortion, and cultural shifts are deeply personal for many Americans and can’t be dismissed as secondary, however, they're not really being addressed. They are being weaponized by each party--i.e., if you're team blue you're all in on this stance and if you're team red, you must be all in on this stance. Social issues are killing us with regards to the larger issues that I believe the government should be focused on instead (I guess that's the titch of Libertarian in me).
For 3, cons are concerned because they are told to be concerned by the people who profit off of the sick. Pharma would have to lower their prices more to the levels that every other country pays for drugs, instead of ripping off Americans. Again, our racket of a healthcare system is my #1. The older I get the more I get first hand experience of how much of a rip off it is.
Also, more Americans were in better shape before Reagan started slashing corporate tax rates and middle class America had to start footing the bill. Cons also did a great job of telling us that it was the poor people and immigrants who were stealing from us, when instead it has been 45 years of the billionaires doing it...and it's about to get worse.
We also need to get Big Pharma out of the med schools. My good friend's wife just finished her PhD and is a traveling nurse practitioner. She said it's hard to become a wholistic provider because schools teach what medication matches symptoms (paraphrased).
First I don't trust a NP's expertise on anything about medical training. The complexity of their education is suspect. You can get an entirely online NP degree. Look at the hardcore science requirements for an RN degree. They are minimal at best. Nurses are good providers of care. They are not good diagnosticians.
Second if you want big pharma out of medical school then America needs to step up. People need to eat healthy, exercise, get good sleep, stop smoking, and get regular check ups. That's preventative medicine. How do you want me to fix your blood pressure if you smoke and are 50 lbs overweight? I can give you a drug which has data shown that it will reduce your risk of heart attack/stroke. That drug is metoprolol. It's generic and costs about 10 bucks a month. It has definitive data in risk reduction. Is big pharma pushing that? Just because I prescribe a medication is that big pharma? You don't think I spend time telling someone to stop smoking and don't be a fat ass? Do you know how often that advice is followed?
1. WTF is big pharma mean? It's the bogeyman of medicine.
2. WTF does holistic care mean? Diet, exercise, etc. are a mainstay of health. What is she planning to do to "deliver holistic care"? You SHOULD know what medication treats what symptom. If you have knee pain from arthritis you should know anti-inflammatories, steroid injections, etc treat that symptom. So does physical therapy. Do you want me to also mention turmeric has anti-inflammatory properties as well? That's fine. What isn't going to help you chemotherapy. It doesn't match the symptoms. An MD also has a pretty good idea when meds don't work you may need surgery.
I get where you're coming from, but just to clarify, my NP friend didn't do an online school for her degree. I believe she attended the University of Arizona. She's been in the medical field for a long time—she's 55 years old and has a lot of experience under her belt. I totally get your general concern, but I can assure you she’s not a “noob” when it comes to the field.
As for the holistic care approach, you’re absolutely right. She’s all about offering her patients the choice. When they come in, she asks them, “Do you want me to throw a pill at this or are you interested in making a lifestyle change?” [paraphrased, of course] It's not just about treating symptoms with medication—it's about guiding people toward healthier living overall.
So, yes, I totally agree with you about the importance of preventative care too. It’s a much bigger picture than just prescribing meds.
I also want to add that my wife’s physician is also very holistic in his approach. He offers healthy living clinics, classes, and other similar resources. I used to go to the same place, but now I opt for VA care (it's free!). The biggest difference I notice is how they handle my high cholesterol. The VA just wants me to take a statin because my LDL is high. But with my civilian holistic provider, he didn’t just look at my LDL and prescribe something. He ordered a coronary CT angiogram, which showed no plaque build-up. Instead of just throwing meds at me, he encouraged me to change my diet. My HDL improved and my LDL came down w/o a statin.
Now, fast forward to the VA, where I’ve gotten a bit lazy with my diet. My PCM hasn’t suggested a diet change (other than take some fish oil) or a CT scan, just prescribed Atorvastatin and called it good. But, who knows, maybe I’m off the mark here. I’m not a physician. All I know is that when I really take care of myself—through diet, exercise, etc.—I feel much better. And my mom, who’s 76, isn’t on any prescription meds--she is very meticulous with her diet. The only thing I can't control is my darn fibromyalgia and arthritis (need meds), but even with that, I feel like I’m in better shape when I’m being proactive with my health.
Lastly, I understand that physicians are prohibited from receiving direct kickbacks, but doesn’t that still leave room for other forms of influence, like speaker fees, consulting and research payments, samples, or gifts? Couldn’t these things subtly affect some medical providers’ decisions—like prescribing a certain drug instead of laying out a more detailed health plan focusing on lifestyle changes? I’m not trying to sound like a conspiracy theorist here; I’m just genuinely curious.
Thanks for your concern, but I’ll be ok. Wokism “programs” cost money to operate, so there will be savings right there. 😉
I probably came off as too argumentative. For that I apologize. I just get frustrated by people who pillory the medical care in the US. Also NPs have a role in a healthcare team but somehow they think they can replace us. All this holistic stuff is like saying I like America, Mom, and Apple Pie.
Diet studies and lifestyle changes have super poor outcomes. People just don't change. I'm not intending to bust your chops but you yourself said you now what to do. How does the VA doctor spending 10 minutes telling you diet/exercise change anything. So should I get your cholesterol down and reduce or risk of dying or let you struggle for a while with your weight/cholesterol and watch you fail? I think our food supply is messed up from corporate farming and cheap processed food. That's about the only think I agree with RFK on. Do you think doctors are better in japan or there is a cultural/lifestyle difference when looking at obesity rates.
Adult obesity: In Japan, less than 4% of adults have a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or higher, which is the international standard for obesity. In the United States, 32% of adults have a BMI of 30 or higher.
Adult overweight: In Japan, about 20% of adults have a BMI between 25 and 30, which is considered overweight. In the United States, 66.5% of adults have a BMI of 25 or higher, which is considered overweight
I will make a fair argument that pharma influence is not as big as people say. I do consulting and research. The money from that goes to pay my staff to conduct a trial. I have to hire someone to fill out paperwork, report complications to the drug company, etc. Is there bias, sure. You have to recognize that and disclose to patients. American citizens supplement drug prices to allow cheaper drugs across the world while they make record profits. That's the real problem with big pharma. To be honest if an average drug is cheaper and affordable I will prescribe that. If there is a better drug but is 400 per month and the patient can't afford it, it is pointless to prescribe.
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No worries. I relooked at my original "Big Pharma" statement and it was way too broad with zero context and most certainly came off as blaming the "boogie man" with a very broad brush. For me, it's very easy to be distrusting of many things where the Big 3 have vested interest in outcomes; Big Pharma, Oil and Bank.
I can make a solid argument that hiring a dietician, physical therapist, personal trainer, and a home chef would do more to help Americans than most medical care we do. The system is broke. Not because docs or hospitals are bad. Patients just want a quick fix and no personal responsibility.
I get where you're coming from (and appreciate the dialog--I addressed my half of the apology above), and I agree that a lot of the criticism about U.S. healthcare can feel overblown or misdirected--maybe we can just direct our anger at the FDA instead.
As for diet and lifestyle changes, yeah, it’s frustrating how poor the outcomes are (Americans are lazy and uneducated on the whole), but I think that points to bigger systemic issues. FOr me, yes, "I know what to do," but that's not necessarily true for many Americans and for those of us who do, it’s that the system makes it hard to follow through. Between corporate farming, cheap processed food, and how messed up our food supply is, it’s no wonder people struggle. Japan’s obesity rates aren’t just about better doctors—it’s about an entire culture and infrastructure that supports healthier habits.
During Trump’s first administration when tariffs were raised, it was deflationary rather than inflationary. 🤔
The arrogance in this first talking point is something that keeps being said. Modern day slavery under a different name is still slavery. You as a liberal elite have no problem with the brown people working the fields and make yourself feel better by assuming the working poor whites and browns in the this country won't work. You are wrong and racist and should feel bad about yourself
Thia is tired line a and not true. Tariffs do not automatically tax the American people in the manner you suggest and keep repeating. You presume that production is binary and it just isn't. A tarrif may allow the market to respond by shifting production somewhere else that could meet need but the cost of entry has been too high or too risky. For example Brazil could step in and produce items previously produced by China and a tarrif on Chinese goods could be the tipping point to enter the market. By the way there are all kinds of tarrifs on American goods that people like you conveniently overlook or forget about in this truly stupid argument.
Universal Healthcare isn't the godsend people like up make it out to be and as doctor you absolutely know that. You are lying which shouldn't be surprise at all considering you are in the transition business.
We can agree on some of this. Cutting corporate tax can also mean certain things move back into the united states from tax havens like Ireland who really boosted their own economy because we tax the hell out of companies. There are ways to encourage investment and job creation over stock buy backs although anyone invested in retirement accounts does benefit when that happens and share prices go up.
Tax cuts for the rich is also a tired drum the democrats like to bang. The rich already pay the vast majority of taxes and big daddy government isnt spending that tax money wisely at all. Control spending and you may have an argument.
Only if that education is effective and there isn't an argument to be made on why government needs to be the sole provider of universal education. In fact public education continues to fail and blame everyone but themselves for their failure. Some introspection on actual improvements would work wonders as well as living up to the promise of public education would be nice. As a doctor you and your colleagues almost certainly came from the upper echelons of society whether you attended public or private school. The vast majority of your colleagues would send their kids to private schools over places like the University of Iowa let alone options for elementary and high school. Private schools are driven by the wealthy so your appeal for universal education is very much a nimby statement where doctors like yourself most certainly do not follow what you advocate for everyone else.
You are doing nothing but virtue signaling. Last month you and your ilk were calling the workong poor nazis and have for decades now thought of them as too stupid to know what is best for themselves. You are professionally part of a cult that automatically labels parents as abusive as an argument that they cannot know if their own children want to transition genders....and you profit off of it. So basically you should stfu
Care to share your data to support the claim? The assertion that tariffs were deflationary during Trump’s first administration isn't supported by the data I found. While there may have been some deflationary pressures due to suppressed demand, the net effect of tariffs leaned more toward inflationary, albeit modestly. Studies have generally found that tariffs were slightly inflationary overall. For instance, a 2020 paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research estimated that tariffs increased the Consumer Price Index (CPI) by about 0.3 percentage points.
Link: https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w26610/w26610.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com
You want to associate with a moron willing to pay $7 for a half pound apple? I'm 100% certain that I could not find an apple at that price level anywhere in Iowa. Even the most expensive grocery store in my area has their most expensive apples (organic Honeycrisp) priced @ $3.99/lb. so $2 each roughly. Inflation my ass. If you're willing to pay $7 for an apple, then you're the problem. It's not the economy stupid, it's your willingness to be an ignorant consumer.
Y'all have fun waiting for Trump to save you from your own stupidity. Have a seat, it's going to be awhile. Grocery prices aren't going to budge if you just continue to fork over your money like a good little wage slave. Trump has already abandoned that "lower prices" mission BTW. Shocking. He doesn't give two shits what you pay, it's not his concern. Enjoy.
What has the evil government done that is restricting "your way"? I hear this vague bullshit complaint all of the time, so please be specific.
So I guess you decided to go with chick who was going to outlaw high prices.
Your choice.
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