I know the season is early and what happens in March is what matters - but come on - How good does it feel to see Iowa at the top again...
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Gotta figure out 141
I think it is quite a bit more than that. Figuring out 141 also requires figuring out 133. Also, 184. I know many love the feel of Brands, but it is still more Mike Kelly at this point than Lincoln McIlravy. Brands has shown tons of heart, but he beat a guy that was 10-24 coming into the season and then had a rather unique set of events get him an OT win over a 1x NQ in 3 chances.
Hopefully Murin can get healthy enough to man 141 and Brands lights a fire under Wilcke, because the following lineup IS their best chance to maximize points:
125-Lee
133-DeSanto
141-Murin
149-Lugo
157-Young
165-Bull
174-Kemerer
184-Wilcke
197-Warner
285-Cass
Your comments on Brands fall apart a little bit when you fail to mention he's a 165 pounder going at 184.
They just survived against UNI 24-19. They have quite a few Top Ten guys.Nebby #2? They that good?
Honestly, it's Iowa and Penn State, and everyone else this year.Nebby #2? They that good?
In all fairness, I don't think anyone really knows yet what our best lineup is to maximize points in March. I do feel that Nelson should try to pack on some muscle in the next 3 months as 184 in all reality is his only chance to get in the lineup this year. That won't happen by Midlands, but can by March. He will still be undersized, but why not try to make the lineup as compared to trying to stay at his ideal weight as a backup!? I think him and $$$ will be decided at Midlands and not until. As far as 133/141 that really depends on Murin's injury. Is he going to be good to go by March, or be at 50-75% the rest of the year? The answer to this really changes everything. Midlands will be great to see where GT and Murin are at and answer some of the 133/141 questions. All I know for sure is that Tom doesn't give a s$%t what I think our best options are and will have the best lineup we have available by March! Midlands are going to be great this year and answer a lot of questions for the Hawks.I think it is quite a bit more than that. Figuring out 141 also requires figuring out 133. Also, 184. I know many love the feel of Brands, but it is still more Mike Kelly at this point than Lincoln McIlravy. Brands has shown tons of heart, but he beat a guy that was 10-24 coming into the season and then had a rather unique set of events get him an OT win over a 1x NQ in 3 chances.
Hopefully Murin can get healthy enough to man 141 and Brands lights a fire under Wilcke, because the following lineup IS their best chance to maximize points:
125-Lee
133-DeSanto
141-Murin
149-Lugo
157-Young
165-Bull
174-Kemerer
184-Wilcke
197-Warner
285-Cass
Honestly, it's Iowa and Penn State, and everyone else this year.
In all fairness, I don't think anyone really knows yet what our best lineup is to maximize points in March. I do feel that Nelson should try to pack on some muscle in the next 3 months as 184 in all reality is his only chance to get in the lineup this year. That won't happen by Midlands, but can by March. He will still be undersized, but why not try to make the lineup as compared to trying to stay at his ideal weight as a backup!? I think him and $$$ will be decided at Midlands and not until. As far as 133/141 that really depends on Murin's injury. Is he going to be good to go by March, or be at 50-75% the rest of the year? The answer to this really changes everything. Midlands will be great to see where GT and Murin are at and answer some of the 133/141 questions. All I know for sure is that Tom doesn't give a s$%t what I think our best options are and will have the best lineup we have available by March! Midlands are going to be great this year and answer a lot of questions for the Hawks.
Not necessarily since that would mean he is a 165lber that can't beat the current 165 or 174 and HAS TO wrestle 184...........and I was ONLY looking at what was best for 184, assuming everyone realized he was an undersized 184.
These rankings have Nelson Brands ranked 10th btw. Going through them they look impressive however, I’m a bit more realistic.
They have:
Lee-1st
DeSanto-2nd
Murin-9th
Lugo-3rd
Young-4th
Marinelli-2nd
Kemmerer-3rd
Brands-10th
Warner-3rd
Cass-12th
Obviously if Iowa finished with 7AAs (all top 4), 3 finalists and 3 R12 guys to boot, they obliterate the field. PSU is not as bad as they’ve looked. They are going to get some guys back and have big point scorers at 141,165,174, 184 (if healthy) and Hwt. They probably end up with 6 solid AAs with some finalists.
I'll beg to differ on some of those numbers, and whether they obliterate the field. On paper right now, PSU likely also has a shot at 7 AAs (133, 141, 157-184, 285), 6 in top 4 (133, 141, 165-184, 285), and 3-5 finalists (141, 165-184, 285). Throw 197 in as a possible AA (either Conel turns it around, or Beard steps in).
As pointed out in another thread, health at 157, 184, and 197 are very influential uncertainties for PSU at this time. If those ultimately click come March, PSU is going to look a lot more formidable than just 6 AAs and some finalists.
I think it's still too early to call Iowa-PSU as anything but a toss-up.
Using the current Flo Rankings:
NCAA Placement+advancement points based solely on no upsets for each team without bonus factored in
-----Iowa--------PSU
125-20-----------0
133-16-----------13.5
141-5.5----------13.5
149-13.5---------0 Verkleeren ranked 25th puts him exactly 1 spot out of securing a win and .5 points
157-13.5---------9
165-16-----------20
174-13.5--------20
184-9------------5.5
197-12.5--------.5
285-2------------20
121.5------------102
Based SOLEY on Flo's rankings it WOULD BE an obliteration, which is all he really said. I agree that I don't see any way Iowa beats them by that much, but this is why I keep saying they ARE a solid favorite at this point of the season. On top of this, I would be really surprised if PSU outscores Iowa in bonus points this season. Iowa should very likely have so many top seeds across the board that the likelihood for early bonus points or even bonus on the backside goes up considerably. On top of that, PSU simply DOES NOT have the proven bonus point scorers they have had in a long time.
Yeah, but those are Flo rankings.
Intermat -- which were the rankings noted by the OP and by @so cal hawkfan in his post, have Iowa by 6.0 pts. If you want to challenge my take, it might be better to look at a group of rankings and come up with an average among them . . . and then account for the 2nd paragraph of my post. Just sayin'.
Yeah, but those are Flo rankings.
Intermat -- which were the rankings noted by the OP and by @so cal hawkfan in his post, have Iowa by 6.0 pts. If you want to challenge my take, it might be better to look at a group of rankings and come up with an average among them . . . and then account for the 2nd paragraph of my post. Just sayin'.
Hey slush, what’s your take on Shak? I was curious about his career and looked at it and nothing really stuck out to me as wow - sure fire AA or finalist, yet for the last two years he has been in that convo. I know he has AA’d and has tons of pinning potential but as a fan following the team, what makes you think he can be a finalist? Shake the injury rust off and perform much higher than he ever has?
He beat:
Venz
Colbray pin
Holschlag pin
Miklus
Wilke
Losses:
Geno
Wilson
McFadden
Massa
Preisch
Rodriguez
Shields
Darmastadt
Conel
Others
I haven’t watched him much at all, that’s why I’m asking.
I get what you were saying. Come March, I expect PSU to be right there with them if not even be favored. However, RIGHT NOW, I don't see how Iowa is not at least moderately ahead.
Right now, in either a dual or tournament format Iowa puts too much distance ahead of PSU at 125, 149, 157, 184 and 197. That doesn't even account for 133(where I would favor DeSanto considerably), 165(where Marinelli is 2-0 against Joseph) and 174(where Kemerer could pull off the moderate upset). 141 and 285 are the ONLY clear favorites for PSU at the current time.
This is a much bigger deal to me ONLY because I would never have expect PSU to be anything more than a tossup if you looked at the numbers.
pu lost a dual where they ff a weight and do not have regular 157,i think beard will be at bigs and teske will be much better at end of year. to me they are still the favorites. time to wash this stink off of me.
Unless you think Brands is going to magically become a full-sized 184 this year, this comment makes no sense. He doesn't get extra points at the tournament because he's small. Him placing 8th might be more impressive than Wilcke placing 7th, but Wilcke still scores more points, and that's all that matters.Your comments on Brands fall apart a little bit when you fail to mention he's a 165 pounder going at 184.
As I understand it, Penn State is wrestling back ups at 157 and 184, and 197, so there's that.
I love what Rasheed can do on the mat. I love his underdog story as an unheralded recruit (except by those who knew him personally).
180.7 for Iowa St and 176.5 for UTCWhat does Brands really weigh? Nobody knows. I think there is a lot BS on this board on that subject. He’s not giving up twenty pound and I don’t need a scale to tell me that.
What does Brands really weigh? Nobody knows. I think there is a lot BS on this board on that subject. He’s not giving up twenty pound and I don’t need a scale to tell me that.
Speaking of PSU, the amount of posts over here has decreased rapidly over the past few days. Been a breath of fresh air. I didn't even see any hawk fans giving them a hard time on BWI either. They do however take shots at Iowa in almost every thread over there, no matter what the topic is, so there's that.
Yes...good point. Rasheed was unheralded. He was ranked at a lowly #43 on FLO's big board.
For reference, Iowa's Murin was ranked #44. Lugo #64. And those 2 Iowa guys battling for 184? #86 Wilcke and #93 Brands.
But still, we all truly love those PSU underdog stories.
Nebby #2? They that good?
Conel isn't a back up...when he was winning he was #3 ranked and PSU faithful saying he could be National champ...now hes lost a couple and hes considered a backup ...bs!As I understand it, Penn State is wrestling back ups at 157 and 184, and 197, so there's that.