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Iowa hoops targets for spring & summer (HawkCentral article)

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Chris Cuellar, ccuellar@dmreg.com10:56 p.m. CDT April 24, 2016
http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...eye-hoops-targets-spring-and-summer/83466636/

The open evaluation period should be more intriguing than any of Iowa’s open roster spots.

But after a few busy weeks of spring and with men’s basketball recruiting entering its silly season, the Hawkeyes have one precious 2016 scholarship still available.

Does coach Fran McCaffery’s staff need a point guard right now?

“That’s an area that if we can solidify with a graduate transfer or a high-end combo guard, that’s something we’ll evaluate and look at,” Iowa assistant coach Andrew Francis said.

“But outside of that, our 2016 is class is set and solid and we’re looking forward to 2017, 2018 and after.”

Here’s an overview of Iowa’s recruiting to-do list for next season’s prospects and beyond, with help from Tom Kakert, of the Rivals.com site Hawkeye Report.

Still searching for a point guard

Charlie Moore was a big name last summer, and he’s back as a 2016 Iowa target after decommitting from Memphis on April 8. The 5-foot-11 floor general was Mr. Basketball in Illinois last season, averaging 28 points, seven assists, five rebounds and five steals per game at Morgan Park.

He’s coveted as a top 100 guard available late in the recruiting process, but Kakert doesn’t think all of Iowa’s hopes rest on landing him or 6-2 guard Christian Vital from Connecticut prep school St. Thomas More.

“With what Fran and the some of the other coaches have said, I think they’re pretty comfortable just holding the scholarship open for 2017 and moving on,” Kakert said.

“Unless it’s the right guy with the right fit that can come in and help them. I know everybody gets excited with transfers, but it just isn’t that great for point guards.”

The graduate transfer market — good for a one-year fix — included more than 80 players, according to ESPN’s Jeff Goodman, and drew plenty of interest from Hawkeye fans. But Big Ten-ready point guards are in short supply, and Michigan transfer Spike Albrecht isn’t considering Iowa City.

The future at point guard is a little more fixed up. Linn-Mar guard Jordan Bohannon was Iowa’s Mr. Basketball and could learn with early playing time, and McCaffery’s oldest son, Connor, is a point guard prospect in 2017. He’s also 6-foot-5, the same height as likely starter Christian Williams.

“We don’t have a pure point guard, but we do have someone that’s very capable of handling the ball, who understands how to play and make a play for someone else in Christian,” Francis said.

Much further down the line, the Hawkeyes are among dozens of programs chasing 2019 point guard Tyger Campbell. They offered the heavily-hyped prospect last week, hoping his Iowa ties — Campbell lived in Cedar Rapids before moving to Tennessee for eighth-grade hoops and Indiana for prep school — might factor in to the process.

“I think he’s going to end up being really highly recruited,” Kakert said. “Iowa has offered him, but I think they just hope they can stay in the running and see what happens. It would be quite a get.”

Stacking up creative scorers

Whether Peter Jok plans to return to Iowa City or not, Iowa will need natural shooters and scorers to work into an increasingly versatile lineup.

Jordan Goodwin, a 2017 four-star prospect from Belleville, Ill., would fit the bill.

“Jordan played in AAU with Tyler Cook, so he has some familiarity with the program,” Kakert said. “He’s a stronger kid that can finish around the rim. A decent but not great shooter. Most of the Big Ten has offered him, but he’s also got an Iowa football offer.”

Five-star wings Michael Porter and Gary Trent picked up high-profile Hawkeye offers early on but won’t be burning up nets daily at Carver-Hawkeye Arena. Another more likely option is 6-6 wing Christian Negron, an athletic slasher from Elgin, Ill.

“Illinois is in on him as well, and he’s a pretty talented kid,” Kakert said.

And they might just be holding the torch until Muscatine super sophomore Joe Wieskamp arrives in 2018. The 6-6 early commit has been the top scoring freshman and sophomore in Iowa the last two seasons and played in the Underclassman All-American Game in Indianapolis earlier this month.

Bringing in another big post

A balanced lineup of utility players lacks a logical replacement for 7-foot-1 stalwart Adam Woodbury. Gigantic recruits that can lock down the post can be challenging to reel in but usually have a role in Big Ten play.

“There’s a clear need for size in the 2017 class, and that’s something we’re looking at,” Francis said. “We want to make sure we get the best talent possible in the 2018 and 2019 classes.”

The options in 2017 aren’t 7-footers, but they’re quality big men. Four-star prospects Derek Culver and Malik Williams are 6-10 with offers and rising interest, and thin 6-9 three-stars Luka Garza and Jack Nunge have seen the Hawkeye staff during April’s open period.

“They were in visiting Jack Nunge this week, and the interesting story with him is that he lived in Iowa City because his dad is a doctor and was working with the university,” Kakert said.

“Malik is close to being a five-star kid, but he just had an in-home (visit) with Tom Izzo this week. The big boys are knocking on the door.

“They really want to get a big in this class.”

Interest is out down the line for young centers Connor Vanover (7-3, Class of 2018) and Chol Mariol (7-2, 2019), but the spot is more flexible than finding the next Hawkeye point guard.

“It’s recruiting. Things can change,” Francis said. “You don’t know how some guys are going to develop and the direction they’re going to take.

“With transfers and guys’ development, you have to flexible in your recruiting format.”
 
Anyone could see that Iowa had no chance of landing Trent or Porter. Derek Culver is a hard call since home state tOSU may be looking for a guard with its one (maybe two) scholarships. Michigan State may be a leader. Williams has at least visited Iowa. Unsure if Culver has been to Carver Arena. Williams or Culver would be a great option. Reality, jack Nunge may be the big to commit. Looks like he needs at least a red shirt year to develop.

Kakert needs to see more Goodwin shooting video. He has improved and is working harder on perimeter 3 pt game. Goodwin is going to a special player for some program (not Illinois). The kid plays with toughness and heart and puts in the work to be better. Hope he comes to Iowa.
 
Anyone could see that Iowa had no chance of landing Trent or Porter. Derek Culver is a hard call since home state tOSU may be looking for a guard with its one (maybe two) scholarships. Michigan State may be a leader. Williams has at least visited Iowa. Unsure if Culver has been to Carver Arena. Williams or Culver would be a great option. Reality, jack Nunge may be the big to commit. Looks like he needs at least a red shirt year to develop.

Kakert needs to see more Goodwin shooting video. He has improved and is working harder on perimeter 3 pt game. Goodwin is going to a special player for some program (not Illinois). The kid plays with toughness and heart and puts in the work to be better. Hope he comes to Iowa.
Agree Goodwin would be a fantastic get. Hope Fran gets Cook to put the full court press on him.
 
Fran certainly does a nice job of making recruiting sound like mission impossible. Meanwhile, Wisconsin gets two commitments from IMG Academy in Florida. One is Travis Trice's brother, a 3 star PG and the other is a 3 star forward. He has talked about this "fit" thing for the last few years and that typically means we offer our 3rd or 4th option because they have no better options. Suddenly there is all this trust in Williams to run the point next year, but no trust to play him for 95% of the season despite very suspect guard play?

Fran is saying exactly what I expected. We don't have a true PG, likely won't find the right fit at this point, but have plenty of guys capable of handling the ball. Oh and we have Bohannon this year and Connor next year, so don't worry. Let's see, we consistently lose to teams with good guard play, talk incessantly about needing to get more production from the 1 & 2, but year after year miss on everyone we go after. I laughed out loud when I read the part about this being some strategy to get Tyger Campbell in 2019. Only the Iowa press is capable of spinning such tales.
 
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Fran certainly does a nice job of making recruiting sound like mission impossible. Meanwhile, Wisconsin gets two commitments from IMG Academy in Florida. One is Travis Trice's brother, a 3 star PG and the other is a 3 star forward. He has talked about this "fit" thing for the last few years and that typically means we offer our 3rd or 4th option because they have no better options. Suddenly there is all this trust in Williams to run the point next year, but no trust to play him for 95% of the season despite very suspect guard play?

Fran is saying exactly what I expected. We don't have a true PG, likely won't find the right fit at this point, but have plenty of guys capable of handling the ball. Oh and we have Bohannon this year and Connor next year, so don't worry. Let's see, we consistently lose to teams with good guard play, talk incessantly about needing to get more production from the 1 & 2, but year after year miss on everyone we go after. I laughed out loud when I read the part about this being some strategy to get Tyger Campbell in 2019. Only the Iowa press is capable of spinning such tales.


Caustichawk., is that you?
 
Fran certainly does a nice job of making recruiting sound like mission impossible. Meanwhile, Wisconsin gets two commitments from IMG Academy in Florida. One is Travis Trice's brother, a 3 star PG and the other is a 3 star forward. He has talked about this "fit" thing for the last few years and that typically means we offer our 3rd or 4th option because they have no better options. Suddenly there is all this trust in Williams to run the point next year, but no trust to play him for 95% of the season despite very suspect guard play?

Fran is saying exactly what I expected. We don't have a true PG, likely won't find the right fit at this point, but have plenty of guys capable of handling the ball. Oh and we have Bohannon this year and Connor next year, so don't worry. Let's see, we consistently lose to teams with good guard play, talk incessantly about needing to get more production from the 1 & 2, but year after year miss on everyone we go after. I laughed out loud when I read the part about this being some strategy to get Tyger Campbell in 2019. Only the Iowa press is capable of spinning such tales.

I've said it before that Connor is a SG, not a PG. He has average dribbling skills and he dribbles too high (easier to steal or deflect away). Bohannon may be a very good shooting point guard but his small frame, average quickness, and his vertical game suggest that B1G physical play and tempo will be a serious challenge for him to ever become a starter. I do not see him as a good fit for Franball. I hope I am proven wrong. The sub 6'1' 170 PG of a decade ago is being dismissed by NBA talent scouts who express the desire for the 6'3"+ 190 PG who can run the offense and still score a dozen points every night. Tyus Jones was deemed a late first to early second round pick due to his lack of size. Wisconsin, MSU, tOSU and Illinois have and/or are recruiting 6'2'+ PG for their programs. Iowa needs a guy like Jordan Goodwin who could become a PG with time. Great athlete and unselfish playmaker and teammate.

http://www.nba.com/draft/2015/prospects/tyus_jones/

Also, please remember that Christian Williams was not a PG in HS (IL HS 2A level). Christian was a tall SG/ Point SF. Sorta in the Devyn Marble mode. I heard one of the transfers left because Fran gives tests on play decision making to the players to determine if they can read what to do given the defense or offense they encounter. The transfer in question could not pass the test. I was told that insider tidbit by a friend at church who has Iowa sports ties. Take this with a grain of salt.
 
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Fran certainly does a nice job of making recruiting sound like mission impossible. Meanwhile, Wisconsin gets two commitments from IMG Academy in Florida. One is Travis Trice's brother, a 3 star PG and the other is a 3 star forward. He has talked about this "fit" thing for the last few years and that typically means we offer our 3rd or 4th option because they have no better options. Suddenly there is all this trust in Williams to run the point next year, but no trust to play him for 95% of the season despite very suspect guard play?

Fran is saying exactly what I expected. We don't have a true PG, likely won't find the right fit at this point, but have plenty of guys capable of handling the ball. Oh and we have Bohannon this year and Connor next year, so don't worry. Let's see, we consistently lose to teams with good guard play, talk incessantly about needing to get more production from the 1 & 2, but year after year miss on everyone we go after. I laughed out loud when I read the part about this being some strategy to get Tyger Campbell in 2019. Only the Iowa press is capable of spinning such tales.

Would any critic of Fran honestly be satisfied if he had landed D'Mitrik Trice, or a similarly ranked player? The kid would have been criticized as a fall back recruit, and Fran would have been criticized for missing on his main PG targets. Trice is ranked in the mid-300s in this class, and the number 60 PG, according to 247.
 
Would any critic of Fran honestly be satisfied if he had landed D'Mitrik Trice, or a similarly ranked player? The kid would have been criticized as a fall back recruit, and Fran would have been criticized for missing on his main PG targets. Trice is ranked in the mid-300s in this class, and the number 60 PG, according to 247.

Not a critic of Fran, just his recruiting, specifically the PG spot. I am not saying the Trice kid is the answer, but I get tired of hearing Fran's spin that there is nobody out there, when other schools are finding players. Duke, KU, UCONN, Louisville and countless others are pursuing graduate transfers, but not us.

Wisconsin has a PG in Hill, so they can bring Trice in to mentor under him and develop. Fran might want to try this concept vs. holding his breath for a Ulis-type talent who we will never get.
 
I've said it before that Connor is a SG, not a PG. He has average dribbling skills and he dribbles too high (easier to steal or deflect away). Bohannon may be a very good shooting point guard but his small frame, average quickness, and his vertical game suggest that B1G physical play and tempo will be a serious challenge for him to ever become a starter. I do not see him as a good fit for Franball. I hope I am proven wrong. The sub 6'1' 170 PG of a decade ago is being dismissed by NBA talent scouts who express the desire for the 6'3"+ 190 PG who can run the offense and still score a dozen points every night. Tyus Jones was deemed a late first to early second round pick due to his lack of size. Wisconsin, MSU, tOSU and Illinois have and/or are recruiting 6'2'+ PG for their programs. Iowa needs a guy like Jordan Goodwin who could become a PG with time. Great athlete and unselfish playmaker and teammate.

http://www.nba.com/draft/2015/prospects/tyus_jones/

Also, please remember that Christian Williams was not a PG in HS (IL HS 2A level). Christian was a tall SG/ Point SF. Sorta in the Devyn Marble mode. I heard one of the transfers left because Fran gives tests on play decision making to the players to determine if they can read what to do given the defense or offense they encounter. The transfer in question could not pass the test. I was told that insider tidbit by a friend at church who has Iowa sports ties. Take this with a grain of salt.

Excellent post. I cringe when I read these threads about 'Fran not wanting to go after a PG because we have a 4 star PG in Connor coming in next season.' Connor is a good high school player with up side, but a PG he is not. We saw Gesell's limitations and Bohannon is not as athletic, but is a much better shooter, so best case that is a push. Williams has some game, but is it best suited to the PG spot? I guess we will see.
 
Sounds like even Fran knows that he has some guys who can PLAY point guard (Williams) but who may not be an elite PG at the Big 10 level.

I'm not worried about size necessarily (Moore; Ulis; etc), but they need to be able to shoot the 3 (helps with floor spacing), distribute and defend. They don't necessarily need to be able to blow by their defender as long as they can shoot, but at least one of our 2 guard positions needs to be able to do that. A Connor and Bohannon backcourt would be problematic in that regard, but having Moss at the 2 instead of our typical Ellingson type SG would take a lot of pressure off the PG to penetrate.....but they still need to shoot the 3 if Moss draws a double team and kicks it back to them.

Moore checks all those boxes, including penetration and has a very nice pull up / floater from 15 too.

Williams I don't think is a great shooter and may not have the dribbling and passing skills in tight spaces we would want, but can defend and when given a lane can finish inside better than most.

Connor's shooting is still a question for me but is improving. He distributes it well but his ability to turn the corner at the Big 10 level is a question. Good in the full court game, but unclear in the half court. Again, if Moss can penetrate from the SG position it makes it less critical that Connor be able to do the same.

Bohannon is the best shooter of the bunch and a good distributor, but again probably the question is whether he can turn the corner in the half court and if he has any ability to finish inside 15 feet if he does. His family pedigree makes me think that he'll find creative ways to be very effective before all is said and done with him.
 
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Fran certainly does a nice job of making recruiting sound like mission impossible. Meanwhile, Wisconsin gets two commitments from IMG Academy in Florida. One is Travis Trice's brother, a 3 star PG and the other is a 3 star forward. He has talked about this "fit" thing for the last few years and that typically means we offer our 3rd or 4th option because they have no better options. Suddenly there is all this trust in Williams to run the point next year, but no trust to play him for 95% of the season despite very suspect guard play?

Fran is saying exactly what I expected. We don't have a true PG, likely won't find the right fit at this point, but have plenty of guys capable of handling the ball. Oh and we have Bohannon this year and Connor next year, so don't worry. Let's see, we consistently lose to teams with good guard play, talk incessantly about needing to get more production from the 1 & 2, but year after year miss on everyone we go after. I laughed out loud when I read the part about this being some strategy to get Tyger Campbell in 2019. Only the Iowa press is capable of spinning such tales.
You must be confused. This is an IOWA message board. You are in the wrong place. You couldn't be more wrong in your thinking.
 
You must be confused. This is an IOWA message board. You are in the wrong place. You couldn't be more wrong in your thinking.

Ah, the message board expert / bully weighing in. Please elaborate as your moronic response above makes 0 sense. Sharing an opinion is how these forums work. If you have nothing to add, don't respond. Telling people they are wrong without articulating any intelligent thoughts is pointless. I guess the intelligent thought part is where you fell short. Keep it up, another 25K messages and you might hit 2K likes.
 
Ihawkhoops.....I'm not sure you're worth arguing with as you can't stand how Fran isn't getting a decent PG. Yet you type this....
[QUOTE="Ihawkhoops, post: 2718684, member: Fran might want to try this concept vs. holding his breath for a Ulis-type talent who we will never get.[/QUOTE]

If we will never get one like him why are you so upset with Fran?
 
Anyone could see that Iowa had no chance of landing Trent or Porter. Derek Culver is a hard call since home state tOSU may be looking for a guard with its one (maybe two) scholarships. Michigan State may be a leader. Williams has at least visited Iowa. Unsure if Culver has been to Carver Arena. Williams or Culver would be a great option. Reality, jack Nunge may be the big to commit. Looks like he needs at least a red shirt year to develop.

Kakert needs to see more Goodwin shooting video. He has improved and is working harder on perimeter 3 pt game. Goodwin is going to a special player for some program (not Illinois). The kid plays with toughness and heart and puts in the work to be better. Hope he comes to Iowa.

No where did I say he's not a hard worker and not working on that part of his game. Never said that. Heck, in the interview a quote that wasn't in the story, I said his game is similar to D Wade. He's just not known as a great shooter from three and any scout you talk to will tell you the strength of his game is getting to the rim and finishing. That was my point. Thus far in two EYBL weekends, he's 6-17 from three.

He's also blown up in the past two weeks and is piling up an impressive offer list.
 
A tip of my hat and a gentleman's apology to you (Tom). I am a little defensive of slights made about Jordan. I've seen him live 5 times this year and watched him in both years IL HS 3A state tournament runs. Agree that his outside needs improving but he is a rare talent - high basketball IQ, unselfish teammate and able to drive to the basket and finish with either hand effectively. I really believe JG can be a serious difference maker at Iowa. Better athlete than most of Iowa's current guards.

Michigan State and UCONN recently offered. Fran needs to push the issue after the 2016 recruiting is over. If Jordan wants to make the pros, he'll need to be a PG most likely. He is a guy you want to have with the ball when the game is on the line and you need a score.
 
Excellent post. I cringe when I read these threads about 'Fran not wanting to go after a PG because we have a 4 star PG in Connor coming in next season.' Connor is a good high school player with up side, but a PG he is not. We saw Gesell's limitations and Bohannon is not as athletic, but is a much better shooter, so best case that is a push. Williams has some game, but is it best suited to the PG spot? I guess we will see.

You do realize Fran is actively trying to recruit Vital the PG decommit from UNLV and just visited him with in the last week.
 
You do realize Fran is actively trying to recruit Vital the PG decommit from UNLV and just visited him with in the last week.

I realize Fran is recruiting him, but I also realize Fran's track record with kids who have better offers is not good. If Fran lands Vital, I will gladly eat crow over my concerns over Fran's recruiting, but I IMO, the odds are low to 0.
 
Ihawkhoops.....I'm not sure you're worth arguing with as you can't stand how Fran isn't getting a decent PG. Yet you type this....
[QUOTE="Ihawkhoops, post: 2718684, member: Fran might want to try this concept vs. holding his breath for a Ulis-type talent who we will never get.

If we will never get one like him why are you so upset with Fran?[/QUOTE]

It's a pretty simple concept. We either get better at the PG spot than we have been under Fran thus far or we don't move forward as a program. As I have said way too many times, Fran came in here talking about the great guard play in the big ten and historically at Iowa. He talked about winning big ten championships and making March runs. Totally impossible without getting better than a mid- tier mid -major PG to manage games. Nothing but respect for MG, but he was not a scorer, creator, or finisher. Without at least 2 of those 3 attributes, it's hard to get a team comprised of spot up shooters open looks.

Maybe the new roster will be more dynamic, thus mitigating our lack of a better PG and / or Williams blows up and blossoms in the role.
 
12-6 in the Big Ten the last two years.
89 wins in the last four.
In the Big Ten, only Michigan State, Wisconsin and Iowa have been to the last three NCAA tournaments, and that includes Maryland which has been in just twice in five years under Turgeon.
Even with a rebuilding job to begin with Fran's overall Big Ten regular season record is better than the two previous coaches.
Give Fran just ONE YEAR that doesn't count as a rebuild, his record the last five in the Big Ten is better than Dr. Tom Davis, who had a head start with Raveling's recruits.

We haven't had a year yet where we backtracked and that is while our state suffered a drought of high school talent that included no Rivals top 150 kids in 2013, 2014, 2015 AND we can add 2016 since Pemsl, a near four star, was injured and dropped off the list.

Yet there are posters who will claim Fran can't recruit, develop or game coach.

Why do I not believe anything these posters say? o_O Because they've been saying it over and over and been proven wrong again and again. All they've got now is to predict doom and gloom over and over and celebrate the once in awhile upsets or missed recruits as if it is some proof they were right all along. In other words, after six years all they've got is what MIGHT happen someday.

God help us if we have a down year, the Doom and Gloomers will be celebrating as if it is the Armageddon!
 
12-6 in the Big Ten the last two years.
89 wins in the last four.
In the Big Ten, only Michigan State, Wisconsin and Iowa have been to the last three NCAA tournaments, and that includes Maryland which has been in just twice in five years under Turgeon.
Even with a rebuilding job to begin with Fran's overall Big Ten regular season record is better than the two previous coaches.
Give Fran just ONE YEAR that doesn't count as a rebuild, his record the last five in the Big Ten is better than Dr. Tom Davis, who had a head start with Raveling's recruits.

We haven't had a year yet where we backtracked and that is while our state suffered a drought of high school talent that included no Rivals top 150 kids in 2013, 2014, 2015 AND we can add 2016 since Pemsl, a near four star, was injured and dropped off the list.

Yet there are posters who will claim Fran can't recruit, develop or game coach.

Why do I not believe anything these posters say? o_O Because they've been saying it over and over and been proven wrong again and again. All
they've got now is to predict doom and gloom over and over and celebrate the once in awhile upsets or missed recruits as if it is some proof they were right all along. In other words, after six years all they've got is what MIGHT happen someday.

God help us if we have a down year, the Doom and Gloomers will be celebrating as if it is the Armageddon!

Ihawksfan may be the most frequently incorrect poster on the board, and that's saying something considering Killroy is back.
 
Fran certainly does a nice job of making recruiting sound like mission impossible. Meanwhile, Wisconsin gets two commitments from IMG Academy in Florida. One is Travis Trice's brother, a 3 star PG and the other is a 3 star forward. He has talked about this "fit" thing for the last few years and that typically means we offer our 3rd or 4th option because they have no better options. Suddenly there is all this trust in Williams to run the point next year, but no trust to play him for 95% of the season despite very suspect guard play?

Fran is saying exactly what I expected. We don't have a true PG, likely won't find the right fit at this point, but have plenty of guys capable of handling the ball. Oh and we have Bohannon this year and Connor next year, so don't worry. Let's see, we consistently lose to teams with good guard play, talk incessantly about needing to get more production from the 1 & 2, but year after year miss on everyone we go after. I laughed out loud when I read the part about this being some strategy to get Tyger Campbell in 2019. Only the Iowa press is capable of spinning such tales.
Why are Wisconsin's 3 star recruits better than our 3- and 4-star recruits? Just because they come from Florida?
 
Where in my post did I say I thought they were better? My point is that Fran paints this picture like we have to find this 1 in million type player to fit and if we don't, we will bank it. Would a grad transfer eligible last year at the 1 or 2 not been a nice option when Clemmons and / or Gesell were struggling?

It's one or the other. Don't load up on Ellingson / Fleming guys who can't contribute OR plug gaps with interim fixes like grad transfers or jucos. It is abundantly clear to me Fran cannot get it done through traditional recruiting, so do what basically every other program is doing and augment with non-traditional recruits.

A legit PG makes everyone around them better and is instrumental in winning games late. So instead of having a succession plan at PG, we have the inexperienced duo of Williams and Bohannon apparently.
 
Where in my post did I say I thought they were better? My point is that Fran paints this picture like we have to find this 1 in million type player to fit and if we don't, we will bank it. Would a grad transfer eligible last year at the 1 or 2 not been a nice option when Clemmons and / or Gesell were struggling?

It's one or the other. Don't load up on Ellingson / Fleming guys who can't contribute OR plug gaps with interim fixes like grad transfers or jucos. It is abundantly clear to me Fran cannot get it done through traditional recruiting, so do what basically every other program is doing and augment with non-traditional recruits.

A legit PG makes everyone around them better and is instrumental in winning games late. So instead of having a succession plan at PG, we have the inexperienced duo of Williams and Bohannon apparently.

What da $%^& are you yammering about now? What does "getting it done" mean to you!?!?

As to inexperience, that's par for the course in college basketball!!!! Players come and go. A succession plan!?!? Have you not even followed college basketball!?!?!?!?

I'm not even going to try to explain why "legit point guard" doesn't even apply these days.
 
Where in my post did I say I thought they were better? My point is that Fran paints this picture like we have to find this 1 in million type player to fit and if we don't, we will bank it. Would a grad transfer eligible last year at the 1 or 2 not been a nice option when Clemmons and / or Gesell were struggling?

It's one or the other. Don't load up on Ellingson / Fleming guys who can't contribute OR plug gaps with interim fixes like grad transfers or jucos. It is abundantly clear to me Fran cannot get it done through traditional recruiting, so do what basically every other program is doing and augment with non-traditional recruits.

A legit PG makes everyone around them better and is instrumental in winning games late. So instead of having a succession plan at PG, we have the inexperienced duo of Williams and Bohannon apparently.

While I don't disagree filling in some grad transfers and jucos makes a lot of sense, particularly is a year like this one, I think I have a different definition of "getting it done."

Last year certainly didn't end as well as it could have, but I seem to recall being ranked in the top ten each of the last two seasons at some point. I recall making it out of the first round the last two seasons. Would I like to see more? Absolutely! Do I think Fran "isn't getting it done with traditional recruits?" Hell no! If you told me Iowa would win 20 games, hit the top ten and make the round of 32 almost every year, I'd sign up in a heartbeat. I think "basically every other program" (with the exception of some blue bloods, of which we will never be) would too.

Edit to say I just think there is always room for improvement and there are some things I wish Fran would do more of (strongly pursuing a transfer or two for example), but that doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean what he has been doing isn't working or is subpar.
 
While I don't disagree filling in some grad transfers and jucos makes a lot of sense, particularly is a year like this one, I think I have a different definition of "getting it done."

Last year certainly didn't end as well as it could have, but I seem to recall being ranked in the top ten each of the last two seasons at some point. I recall making it out of the first round the last two seasons. Would I like to see more? Absolutely! Do I think Fran "isn't getting it done with traditional recruits?" Hell no! If you told me Iowa would win 20 games, hit the top ten and make the round of 32 almost every year, I'd sign up in a heartbeat. I think "basically every other program" (with the exception of some blue bloods, of which we will never be) would too.

Edit to say I just think there is always room for improvement and there are some things I wish Fran would do more of (strongly pursuing a transfer or two for example), but that doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean what he has been doing isn't working or is subpar.

Valid points and agree in principle with all of them. My issue is the PG spot in particular. MG was solid for 4 years, but we need more than that to advance in March. Fran does a nice job of identifying under-recruited kids, but I thought by this point we would have more than Cook to talk about as a 'better get'. I am not sold on Bohannon or Kriener being the caliber of guys Fran should be landing at this juncture. I am not saying one or the other is not deserving, just saying that relative to who we have / don't have, I am not sure I see enough up side in either as the team is constituted today.
 
What da $%^& are you yammering about now? What does "getting it done" mean to you!?!?

As to inexperience, that's par for the course in college basketball!!!! Players come and go. A succession plan!?!? Have you not even followed college basketball!?!?!?!?

I'm not even going to try to explain why "legit point guard" doesn't even apply these days.

If I only had sidewalk chalk. So a PG is supposed to create, distribute and ideally be able to at least pose a semblance of a scoring threat. Rare to get all 3, but 2 of 3 is manageable. We have had 0-3 to 1-3 for the last 4 years. No knock on MG, but Fran needed to add someone 2 years ago and definitely last year who could play. Getting the trio of Fleming, Ellingson, and Williams to lead the cheering section was great, but when Clemmons and Gesell stunk, we had 0 options.

So year 7 and we have 10 minutes of experience in Williams and a freshman in Bohannon that nobody thinks is a PG? Is this strategy or desperation? In reality, neither is a true PG, so what are the odds we improve in creating off the bounce, defending quick guards, creating for spot up shooters, or closing games late?

Have you paid attention to what other teams are doing? Since you clearly the forum expert on basketball, tell me why other teams are pursuing guys to plug holes in their rosters. So legit PG doesn't matter? I wonder why so many good teams have legit PG's then.
 
If I only had sidewalk chalk. So a PG is supposed to create, distribute and ideally be able to at least pose a semblance of a scoring threat. Rare to get all 3, but 2 of 3 is manageable. We have had 0-3 to 1-3 for the last 4 years. No knock on MG, but Fran needed to add someone 2 years ago and definitely last year who could play. Getting the trio of Fleming, Ellingson, and Williams to lead the cheering section was great, but when Clemmons and Gesell stunk, we had 0 options.

So year 7 and we have 10 minutes of experience in Williams and a freshman in Bohannon that nobody thinks is a PG? Is this strategy or desperation? In reality, neither is a true PG, so what are the odds we improve in creating off the bounce, defending quick guards, creating for spot up shooters, or closing games late?

Have you paid attention to what other teams are doing? Since you clearly the forum expert on basketball, tell me why other teams are pursuing guys to plug holes in their rosters. So legit PG doesn't matter? I wonder why so many good teams have legit PG's then.

I'm not the forum expert but I'll take Fran's plan over anything you mutter any day.
 
Ihawkhoops, I disagree respectfully with your contention that we had 0 options. I believe William's was a good option, but one Fran felt that his seniors would as they did earlier in the year would get it together and turn things around, so he remained loyal to his seniors which as we have seen is a double edged sword to say the least. Now next year I believe there will be quite a bit less though still some loyalty to upperclassman. Williams, Moss, Flemming, and Bohannon will take up the bulk of the backcourt minutes and if successful doing so Jok will remain as a wing forward. If any fail to handle this Jok will play the 2 and the true freshman will get a larger share of minutes in the front court. My friend the cupboard is not bare, you'll see a return to the tournament next year and continued growth in the program. Relax and enjoy the ups and downs. I'm a White Six fan so I know every fifth day will be a day not to watch when Ranks is pitching but even their trajectory is climbing.
 
Ihawkhoops, I disagree respectfully with your contention that we had 0 options. I believe William's was a good option, but one Fran felt that his seniors would as they did earlier in the year would get it together and turn things around, so he remained loyal to his seniors which as we have seen is a double edged sword to say the least. Now next year I believe there will be quite a bit less though still some loyalty to upperclassman. Williams, Moss, Flemming, and Bohannon will take up the bulk of the backcourt minutes and if successful doing so Jok will remain as a wing forward. If any fail to handle this Jok will play the 2 and the true freshman will get a larger share of minutes in the front court. My friend the cupboard is not bare, you'll see a return to the tournament next year and continued growth in the program. Relax and enjoy the ups and downs. I'm a White Six fan so I know every fifth day will be a day not to watch when Ranks is pitching but even their trajectory is climbing.

Fleming is gone, bro
 
Clearly the two best freshmen we had last year were Wagner and Williams. Both had trouble getting minutes because of the experience and talent of the players in front of them. Wagner is a stud and he is very strong. Williams is a pg with a 6'11" reach and he is going to cause huge problems for the opposition. Don't fret, we are a lot better than you think. We have a real good freshman class coming in. We will be solid.
 
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I think Fran's idea was that if he could not find a pg that was really good (talent -wise Moore or Vital who is a combo guard btw) then we would be better served banking the scholly and using it next year when we would have a better chance to land another big fish.

That is something I agree with actually. It's hard to find quality players this late in the game. Wisconsin landed Trice who was ranked somewhere around 300 because they view him, rightfully, as a developmental guy. He will be red-shirted and then probably be a back-up for another year or two before seeing starter minutes. What I'm saying is many players of that caliber aren't and would not help us next year or even the year after.
 
I would not totally rule out that we might find a transfer yet, but I kind of doubt it will happen.
 
Where in my post did I say I thought they were better? My point is that Fran paints this picture like we have to find this 1 in million type player to fit and if we don't, we will bank it. Would a grad transfer eligible last year at the 1 or 2 not been a nice option when Clemmons and / or Gesell were struggling?

It's one or the other. Don't load up on Ellingson / Fleming guys who can't contribute OR plug gaps with interim fixes like grad transfers or jucos. It is abundantly clear to me Fran cannot get it done through traditional recruiting, so do what basically every other program is doing and augment with non-traditional recruits.

A legit PG makes everyone around them better and is instrumental in winning games late. So instead of having a succession plan at PG, we have the inexperienced duo of Williams and Bohannon apparently.

When you have 1 scholly to give, it is one in a ____ type. Now you make it sound like the Wisconsin coach just picked up anybody.

You're not going to have 13 guys on the bench that are going to be conference ready every year. You can't play them all and they all won't wait. You think the 12th or 13th man for Duke or Kentucky would be a dominant player on any other team?
 
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