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Iowa vs. MSU - 2015 Facts

UnionFootballFan

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Oct 16, 2010
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Overall Record - Advantage Iowa
Iowa, 12-0
MSU, 11-1

Against Like Opponents - Advantage Iowa
Iowa, 4-0
MSU, 3-1
Iowa point differential in these games was +52
MSU point differential in these games was +45
Iowa won by a greater margin in 2 of these games (includes victory over Nebraska, where MSU lost)
MSU won by a greater margin in 2 of these games

Strength of Schedule - Advantage MSU
Iowa, 62
MSU, 48
East vs. West was an even 7-7, so neither side can lay claim to "tougher" division.
CFPRankings: Iowa win over #16 NW. MSU wins over #8 OSU, #10 Michigan, #17 Oregon
APRankings: Iowa win over #17 NW. MSU wins over #8 OSU, #12 Michigan, #18 Oregon
Rankings per Sargin through game 11. Wisconsin will likely re-enter rankings while Michigan will drop, but still be ranked.

Overall the actual facts speak for themselves. There is every indication these two teams are evenly matched and MSU will not "run away" with this game. As we all know, Iowa won't be running away with this game either. Anybody who claims MSU will dominate is not speaking with actual facts.
 
This teams are so identical it will come down to QB play.

I think Iowa is going to need to blitz more to keep Cook on his backside.
 
Overall Record - Advantage Iowa
Iowa, 12-0
MSU, 11-1

Against Like Opponents - Advantage Iowa
Iowa, 4-0
MSU, 3-1
Iowa point differential in these games was +52
MSU point differential in these games was +45
Iowa won by a greater margin in 2 of these games (includes victory over Nebraska, where MSU lost)
MSU won by a greater margin in 2 of these games

Strength of Schedule - Advantage MSU
Iowa, 62
MSU, 48
East vs. West was an even 7-7, so neither side can lay claim to "tougher" division.
CFPRankings: Iowa win over #16 NW. MSU wins over #8 OSU, #10 Michigan, #17 Oregon
APRankings: Iowa win over #17 NW. MSU wins over #8 OSU, #12 Michigan, #18 Oregon
Rankings per Sargin through game 11. Wisconsin will likely re-enter rankings while Michigan will drop, but still be ranked.

Overall the actual facts speak for themselves. There is every indication these two teams are evenly matched and MSU will not "run away" with this game. As we all know, Iowa won't be running away with this game either. Anybody who claims MSU will dominate is not speaking with actual facts.

Game is going to be close for sure but go beat OSU and UOM on the road and come back and tell the schedules are equivalent.
 
Updated SOS:
MSU, 53
Iowa, 62

Nice thread. The updated/final SoS paints a MUCH different picture than the 'expected' SoS looking at the schedules before the games were played.

50s vs 60s for SoS is basically a push.

And most of the playoff-caliber teams have similar SoS - I'd put a standard deviation (σ) of ±10 on each of them, so SoS differences of <20 are not really indicative of significantly 'better opponents'. And, if you presume a ±10 standard deviation, then the 95% confidence interval for comparing SoS is actually 2σ, or ±20 in the rankings.

Maybe that's too much, so take a σ = 7.5 is about right, so ±2σ = ±15 on SoS for comparing. In any case, just looking at the absolute numbers w/o any error bars or confidence interval for them is really nonsense.
 
Nice thread. The updated/final SoS paints a MUCH different picture than the 'expected' SoS looking at the schedules before the games were played.

50s vs 60s for SoS is basically a push.

And most of the playoff-caliber teams have similar SoS - I'd put a standard deviation (σ) of ±10 on each of them, so SoS differences of <20 are not really indicative of significantly 'better opponents'. And, if you presume a ±10 standard deviation, then the 95% confidence interval for comparing SoS is actually 2σ, or ±20 in the rankings.

Maybe that's too much, so take a σ = 7.5 is about right, so ±2σ = ±15 on SoS for comparing. In any case, just looking at the absolute numbers w/o any error bars or confidence interval for them is really nonsense.

My thoughts exactly
 
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Game is going to be close for sure but go beat OSU and UOM on the road and come back and tell the schedules are equivalent.

There are multiple problems with this statement. First, I give the SOS edge to MSU. Second, you are using historic perceptions of OSU and Michigan vs their actual performance this year. The numbers and facts speak for themselves. Playing those two teams were enough to put MSU Ahead of Iowa for SOS, but only in the 50s vs Iowa in the 60s. Additionally, MSU did not play and beat Wisconsin or Northwestern on the road this season, which helps balance the SOS rankings.
 
There are alot of keys to every game, but to me it comes down to whether Iowa can protect CJ and give him time to throw. Even if we show we can run the ball against MSU, they will start loading up to force us to beat them throwing it. We won't run the ball against 7-8 man fronts with this team. CJ will need to be successful throwing on second and third down. If we can protect him...we can beat MSU. Their DE's are legit and appear to have really stepped up their game over the past two weeks. Croston and Myers are going to have to play really really well.

On the other side of the ball, it's pretty much the same story. If we allow Cook unlimited time to throw, we are in trouble. It will be interesting to see what Phil Parker dials up. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see him drop 8 into coverage and force Cook to throw into tight windows. I don't think it's a good idea, but if we can't get pressure, it may be our best bet. Cook won't run with a bad shoulder.
 
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Good breakdown, WinOne. I sure as heck would rather be trying to sack Cook than J.T. Barrett and stopping the MSU backs instead of Elliott, however. MSU is a challenge, but they're not nearly the match-up nightmare tOSU would have been. I like our chances.
 
Meh, most Michigan State fans/casual fans will see that they destroyed Penn State 55-16 and assume that Iowa is, therefore, in trouble. Of course, with perception being reality, had MSU struggled with Penn State and only won by, let's say, a 27-16 final......way fewer fans would be so bold as to suggest that MSU would destroy Iowa, and most would naturally be MSU fans, and people who hate Iowa (ISU fans).

It's all about perception.......and Iowa has been changing that one Saturday at a time throughout the entire season. And that's not gonna change now.
 
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Meh, most Michigan State fans/casual fans will see that they destroyed Penn State 55-16 and assume that Iowa is, therefore, in trouble. Of course, with perception being reality, had MSU struggled with Penn State and only won by, let's say, a 27-16 final......way fewer fans would be so bold as to suggest that MSU would destroy Iowa, and most would naturally be MSU fans, and people who hate Iowa (ISU fans).

It's all about perception.......and Iowa has been changing that one Saturday at a time throughout the entire season. And that's not gonna change now.

Its moreso the fact Nicholson is now playing like a stud at safety, we got a starting corner back, and our OL is finally healthy since the Oregon game.

As you know, games are won in the trenches. I give MSUs DL a slight advantage over your OL but our OL a decent sized advantage over your DL.

Plus the QB position seems to heavily favor MSU. I guarantee Cook will make multiple clutch throws vs Iowa. Can Beathard come up big?
 
Go beat Nebraska on the road, and come back and tell me the schedules are NOT 'equivalent'....:cool:

I'm happy for Iowa and believe the two teams are equivalent so don't take any of my comments the wrong way. As for the Nebraska game, we had two true freshman DBs making their first start and our oline was still recovering (yes, I know excuses) from injury. We came together against OSU and PSU.
 
Its moreso the fact Nicholson is now playing like a stud at safety, we got a starting corner back, and our OL is finally healthy since the Oregon game. (Well they shouldn't be.)

As you know, games are won in the trenches. I give MSUs DL a slight advantage over your OL but our OL a decent sized advantage over your DL. (But like you said, if we had Ott.....)

Plus the QB position seems to heavily favor MSU. I guarantee Cook will make multiple clutch throws vs Iowa. Can Beathard come up big? (No. This is where your bias leans too heavily. There's no huge disparity between Beathard and Cook. And I think you mean your receivers will try to make multiple clutch circus catches. Cook does a good job of throwing the long ball to spots, but his receivers also pull down some great catches. If Iowa can keep their guys from winning position, then they can make plays. Simple as that. Cook is not Tom Brady. He's not even Andy Dalton. What he is, is a smart player with a decent arm and receivers who will go get the football...................deal with it.)
 
I'm happy for Iowa and believe the two teams are equivalent so don't take any of my comments the wrong way. As for the Nebraska game, we had two true freshman DBs making their first start and our oline was still recovering (yes, I know excuses) from injury. We came together against OSU and PSU.

Fair point. I will say that Iowa has played "together" all season. They overcame the loss of their best defensive player and needed to go 4-deep at RB. I think this shows Iowa is more deserving based on their season's work, but next week will determine who is playing their best at the right time when it counts. MSU is coming in ready to go, which will make it a heck of a game.
 
I'm happy for Iowa and believe the two teams are equivalent so don't take any of my comments the wrong way. As for the Nebraska game, we had two true freshman DBs making their first start and our oline was still recovering (yes, I know excuses) from injury. We came together against OSU and PSU.

LOL....not intending to disrepect you guys at all; almost every team has a bad game w/ a bad bounce that can tip the balance.

MSU has looked very strong in its last couple games, and despite the lucky bounce and win @ Michigan, they are clearly the best team in the East division.
 
Its moreso the fact Nicholson is now playing like a stud at safety, we got a starting corner back, and our OL is finally healthy since the Oregon game.

As you know, games are won in the trenches. I give MSUs DL a slight advantage over your OL but our OL a decent sized advantage over your DL.

Plus the QB position seems to heavily favor MSU. I guarantee Cook will make multiple clutch throws vs Iowa. Can Beathard come up big?

You know how I know the only Iowa game you watched was Iowa vs. Nebraska?
 
MSU is a great team, no doubt, but I think the advantage at QB is overblown. Beathard is a darn good QB with a great arm, good mobility, excellent decision-making, tremendous leadership ability, and a knack for coming through in the clutch. I think he'll show all of that on Saturday.
 
Plus the QB position seems to heavily favor MSU. I guarantee Cook will make multiple clutch throws vs Iowa. Can Beathard come up big? (No. This is where your bias leans too heavily. There's no huge disparity between Beathard and Cook. And I think you mean your receivers will try to make multiple clutch circus catches. Cook does a good job of throwing the long ball to spots, but his receivers also pull down some great catches. If Iowa can keep their guys from winning position, then they can make plays. Simple as that. Cook is not Tom Brady. He's not even Andy Dalton. What he is, is a smart player with a decent arm and receivers who will go get the football...................deal with it.)

Ok, now I'm a huge Beathard fan/ Iowa fan and CJ has played amazing and has never lost as a starter...but Cook is an advantage over CJ in this game...and it's major. CJ hasn't played Ohio State or MSU yet in a conference championship...he hasn't played and won in a Rose Bowl or Cotton Bowl, he hasn't beaten a top ten ranked team yet. Connor Cook has played like a mench in every one of those games...every big game...he's been money. For us to put CJ there is lunacy...he has to prove it. Let's see him deliver this week and then we can talk. Sure, MSU's receivers make plays...but geez, dude, Cook throws a beautiful ball and he can make all the throws...and he is extremely accurate...especially in the clutch. This is delusion approaching Nebraska fan...sorry to deliver the news.
 
MSU has had a helluva season. They are playing at a very high level right now. For Iowa to win this game, we are going to have to control the TOP, and that is gonna be a challenge. The other thing we are going to have to do is play some tough D against the pass. If we can get a couple of picks, that would help. We will most likely have to have success throwing the ball in order to open up the run game. If we try to establish the run first, they will stack the box and try to get to Beathard. We are going to have to get our passes out quick to our TE's. Beathard will definetely will have to be mobile enough to make plays with his legs.The football Gods have been good to us so far, so maybe karma will come into play here and we can do what they have done to Michigan and OSU and beat them with the last play of the game.
 
Plus the QB position seems to heavily favor MSU. I guarantee Cook will make multiple clutch throws vs Iowa. Can Beathard come up big? (No. This is where your bias leans too heavily. There's no huge disparity between Beathard and Cook. And I think you mean your receivers will try to make multiple clutch circus catches. Cook does a good job of throwing the long ball to spots, but his receivers also pull down some great catches. If Iowa can keep their guys from winning position, then they can make plays. Simple as that. Cook is not Tom Brady. He's not even Andy Dalton. What he is, is a smart player with a decent arm and receivers who will go get the football...................deal with it.)

Ok, now I'm a huge Beathard fan/ Iowa fan and CJ has played amazing and has never lost as a starter...but Cook is an advantage over CJ in this game...and it's major. CJ hasn't played Ohio State or MSU yet in a conference championship...he hasn't played and won in a Rose Bowl or Cotton Bowl, he hasn't beaten a top ten ranked team yet. Connor Cook has played like a mench in every one of those games...every big game...he's been money. For us to put CJ there is lunacy...he has to prove it. Let's see him deliver this week and then we can talk. Sure, MSU's receivers make plays...but geez, dude, Cook throws a beautiful ball and he can make all the throws...and he is extremely accurate...especially in the clutch. This is delusion approaching Nebraska fan...sorry to deliver the news.

Iowa isn't 12-0 without Beartherd in charge this season. He has made clutch throw after clutch throw and ran for first downs when required. There are very few plays he didn't make this season. Just because he didn't get the chance to do that against OSU or Michigan doesn't make him less of a player. A clutch play is a clutch play against anybody and speaks to his leadership and confidence as a player. A lot of players don't make the plays CJ did this year and it doesn't matter who the opponent was.

Cook has an advantage at receiver and can hit the long ball better (could be a difference with receivers), but beyond that there isn't much of a difference.
 
Not sure if you're referring to my post, WinOne, but I never said C.J. was on Cook's level. That said, C.J. has never had the opportunity to play in any of those games you mention. Does that make him a lesser QB? Obviously not. I stand by my statement that the QB advantage is overblown. C.J. is an outstanding QB, and I think the balance of our offense has kept him a little under the radar. We've run the ball with success to the point where he hasn't had to throw it a ton this season. Sure, Cook is excellent, and he's led MSU to some huge wins. That, alone, doesn't make him markedly superior to C.J., however.

IMO, the main question is whether C.J. will have time to make the throws. MSU's D-line is a huge challenge for our O-line. If we can protect well enough, I think C.J. has a big day.
 
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As you know, games are won in the trenches. I give MSUs DL a slight advantage over your OL but our OL a decent sized advantage over your DL.

Plus the QB position seems to heavily favor MSU. I guarantee Cook will make multiple clutch throws vs Iowa. Can Beathard come up big?
Wrt Iowa OL vs MSU DL, its useful to break it down further. In the run game: advantage IA OL. In the pass game: advantage MSU DL. I think MSU DL has a bigger advantage against the pass than IA OL has in the run game.

Wrt QBs. Cook is a stud and has had a great career. He's certainly much more accomplished than Beathard, and clearly the better pro prospect so far, but I think (biased opinion here) the difference isn't as great as people think. If Iowa is going to win, we will need Beathard to make a name for himself, and I will not be surprised if he does.
 
Iowa isn't 12-0 without Beartherd in charge this season. He has made clutch throw after clutch throw and ran for first downs when required. There are very few plays he didn't make this season. Just because he didn't get the chance to do that against OSU or Michigan doesn't make him less of a player. A clutch play is a clutch play against anybody and speaks to his leadership and confidence as a player. A lot of players don't make the plays CJ did this year and it doesn't matter who the opponent was.

Cook has an advantage at receiver, but as for the person and the player, there is very little difference.

Beat me to it, Bio. Solid post.
 
Its moreso the fact Nicholson is now playing like a stud at safety, we got a starting corner back, and our OL is finally healthy since the Oregon game.

As you know, games are won in the trenches. I give MSUs DL a slight advantage over your OL but our OL a decent sized advantage over your DL.

Plus the QB position seems to heavily favor MSU. I guarantee Cook will make multiple clutch throws vs Iowa. Can Beathard come up big?


I will agree with you that this game will be decided in the trenches.

Other points. Please be advised that for the past 2 weeks, all we have heard is how healthy Nebraska is, and how much they are clicking, etc., etc...... Iowa has had injuries this season as well. Iowa has some how gotten a little healthier lately. We may not be clicking on all cylinders, but we are playing very smart football and team football. Maybe this will be the game we click.

Will Beathard make clutch throws? Not sure. But he will make clutch plays, bank on it. Whether it is with his feet or his arm, don't care. He will make some plays. Cook is a great qb, but the hawks got a pretty good one as well.
 
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Game is going to be close for sure but go beat OSU and UOM on the road and come back and tell the schedules are equivalent.
Well, when we beat the team that beat those teams I'd say they'll be equivalent.

Plus we downed those Mighty 5-7 Huskers, soooo..........
 
Iowa isn't 12-0 without Beartherd in charge this season. He has made clutch throw after clutch throw and ran for first downs when required. There are very few plays he didn't make this season. Just because he didn't get the chance to do that against OSU or Michigan doesn't make him less of a player. A clutch play is a clutch play against anybody and speaks to his leadership and confidence as a player. A lot of players don't make the plays CJ did this year and it doesn't matter who the opponent was.
Cook has an advantage at receiver, but as for the person and the player, there is very little difference.

That's just delusional in my opinion based on who we have played. The top ranked teams we played were Wisconsin and Northwestern. Our passing game was horrific against Wisconsin and we couldn't protect CJ. Against NW, we ran all over them...and I'm sorry to say, but I don't think NW is very good...decent defense. This is a step up...we haven't played anyone, or CJ hasn't played against a team that is 11-1...and with this level of defense...ever. To say he is on par with someone who has faced this level of competition and absolutely excelled when it happened...is crazy. I'm not saying CJ can't do it, I'm saying he hasn't, we haven't, so how can you say Cook isn't a major advantage for MSU. Come on, you guys are smarter than this. You have to prove it then you can throw out lofty comparisons over arguably the best QB in the country the past few years....ok? The guy is 34-4 as a starter or something like that.
 
Its moreso the fact Nicholson is now playing like a stud at safety, we got a starting corner back, and our OL is finally healthy since the Oregon game.

As you know, games are won in the trenches. I give MSUs DL a slight advantage over your OL but our OL a decent sized advantage over your DL.

Plus the QB position seems to heavily favor MSU. I guarantee Cook will make multiple clutch throws vs Iowa. Can Beathard come up big?
12-0 including Nebraska. I don't know you tell us Einstein.
I guarantee Iowa isn't intimidated whatsoever, you're still and always Michigans little brother and our bitch.
 
That's just delusional in my opinion based on who we have played. The top ranked teams we played were Wisconsin and Northwestern. Our passing game was horrific against Wisconsin and we couldn't protect CJ. Against NW, we ran all over them...and I'm sorry to say, but I don't think NW is very good...decent defense. This is a step up...we haven't played anyone, or CJ hasn't played against a team that is 11-1...and with this level of defense...ever. To say he is on par with someone who has faced this level of competition and absolutely excelled when it happened...is crazy. I'm not saying CJ can't do it, I'm saying he hasn't, we haven't, so how can you say Cook isn't a major advantage for MSU. Come on, you guys are smarter than this. You have to prove it then you can throw out lofty comparisons over arguably the best QB in the country the past few years....ok? The guy is 34-4 as a starter or something like that.

Delusional? I think you're giving Cook more respect than he deserves. You do remember that conditions at Wisconsin were horrible, don't you? Huge wind. Stave couldn't throw it, either. Cook wouldn't have put up big numbers in that game, either, I'd argue.

Northwestern is a very good team this year. You're not giving them enough credit. Plus, they have a solid defense. We ran all over them and didn't need to throw it much. That's not C.J.'s fault.

I'm not saying C.J. is on the same level as Cook, as I said above. However, I don't think Cook is lightyears ahead of him, as you seem to believe. Furthermore, you say Cook is something like 34-4 as a starter. Well, as you know, C.J. is 12-0. Your assertion of Cook's record proves nothing.
 
With a bum shoulder Cook is not going to run. Beathard looks to have his wheels back. This makes the matchup at least even.
 
Nice thread. The updated/final SoS paints a MUCH different picture than the 'expected' SoS looking at the schedules before the games were played.

50s vs 60s for SoS is basically a push.

And most of the playoff-caliber teams have similar SoS - I'd put a standard deviation (σ) of ±10 on each of them, so SoS differences of <20 are not really indicative of significantly 'better opponents'. And, if you presume a ±10 standard deviation, then the 95% confidence interval for comparing SoS is actually 2σ, or ±20 in the rankings.

Maybe that's too much, so take a σ = 7.5 is about right, so ±2σ = ±15 on SoS for comparing. In any case, just looking at the absolute numbers w/o any error bars or confidence interval for them is really nonsense.

tumblr_m8az6eqD4u1rc1o0wo1_500.gif
 
12-0 including Nebraska. I don't know you tell us Einstein.
I guarantee Iowa isn't intimidated whatsoever, you're still and always Michigans little brother and our bitch.

:rolleyes:

UM having one national title in 70 years and not B1G titles for 11 years really scares me.
 
Cook's record means nothing? How many top ten teams has CJ played in the 13 game win streak? Zero. How many top ten teams has Cook played in the past three years...I think it's 13...and he's played and excelled on the Big Stage. We couldn't throw the ball against Wisconsin, not because of the wind, but because Shobert had five sacks or something like that and was hammering our QB. How quickly we forget that Shobert took up residence in our offensive backfield. When you play a top ten team, the defense is at a different level...and QB reads and throws are typically in much narrower windows.

Once again, I'm not saying CJ can't do it...I'm saying the only defense I would put on par with MSU right now that we have played would be the Wisconsin defense. CJ and the team's result wasn't good. This Saturday we get to see how far we have come and CJ gets another chance against a top defense.
 
It isn't.

But tell me where im wrong.

Sorry, the only way you could possibly come to the conclusion you did about CJ was if you haven't watched them at all, only saw him play in 20 degree weather and a 25 mph wind, just watched some highlights on BTN or Sportscenter, or just aren't being very honest with yourself.
 
Cook's record means nothing? How many top ten teams has CJ played in the 13 game win streak? Zero. How many top ten teams has Cook played in the past three years...I think it's 13...and he's played and excelled on the Big Stage. We couldn't throw the ball against Wisconsin, not because of the wind, but because Shobert had five sacks or something like that and was hammering our QB. How quickly we forget that Shobert took up residence in our offensive backfield. When you play a top ten team, the defense is at a different level...and QB reads and throws are typically in much narrower windows.

Once again, I'm not saying CJ can't do it...I'm saying the only defense I would put on par with MSU right now that we have played would be the Wisconsin defense. CJ and the team's result wasn't good. This Saturday we get to see how far we have come and CJ gets another chance against a top defense.

I didn't say Cook's record meant nothing. I said it means nothing when comparing it to C.J.'s, which is undefeated. Of course, you understand that C.J. can only play the teams they put in front of him, and he's beaten them all, including a blowout over NW, who will be ranked around 12th in the next poll, and Wisconsin, who will probably be ranked in the next poll, both on the road.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think the weather affected the offenses in the Wisconsin game. And yes, Schobert was a huge factor. C.J.'s more mobile than Cook, who would have been affected every bit as much by Schobert and probably more.

And again, I've never said C.J. was on Cook's level. But I still believe the difference between the two is less than you make it out to be.
 
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This teams are so identical it will come down to QB play.

I think Iowa is going to need to blitz more to keep Cook on his backside.
Not likely that they will keep Cook on his back side. PSU's defensive line is very good that way and didn't lay a hand on Cook. Blitzing did work for Maryland thought so that is a good strategy but it will leave opportunities for the MSU offense. This game will be the usual MSU/Iowa slug fest and a narrow victory for the winner.
 
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