Is Hoiberg coaching ISU football now?
- Thread starter jamesvanderwulf
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FWIW......here's how their jucos rank, out of 326 jucos reviewed. Here's highest ranked to the lowest:
#97.....Thadd Daniels, 3*
#164...Oge Udeogu, 3*
#169...D'andre Payne, 3*
#224...Clifford Fernandez, 3*
#253...Karson Green, 2*
They also lost 2 earlier signees.
#97.....Thadd Daniels, 3*
#164...Oge Udeogu, 3*
#169...D'andre Payne, 3*
#224...Clifford Fernandez, 3*
#253...Karson Green, 2*
They also lost 2 earlier signees.
I don't understand the attemp by some fans to diminish and ridicule the practice of bringing in Juco's to fill needs a football team has....in fact, I think its a smart idea.
I would agree that it has its merits, but it is not for everybody. Generally, if it is a well thought out and planned strategy (ala Bill Snyder at Kansas State) it can work wonders. However, if and when it becomes more of a decision based upon desperation, then it rarely pays the dividends most hope for by those using it to do so.
Paul Rhoads saw the need prior to this last season. Unfortunately, it proved to be too little, too late for him. The new staff has assessed the needs for 2016 in short order and looked at the potential from incoming frosh recruits and made a decision to utilize junior college players to help fill the voids. Only time will tell if that is good, bad or indifferent.
This isn't uncommon for new coaches with rosters devoid of talent. How many jucos did Hayden sign when he got to Iowa.
Andre Tippett anyone?
Andre Tippett anyone?
I personally have been calling for Ferentz to fill in some needs the past few years by going the JUCO route. Brad Banks and CJ Jones sure panned out pretty well. Can't recall any JUCOs he's signed since. Not sure I understand why, but I'm guessing Ferentz has his reasons.
Remember the situation Iowa was in back then though when they nabbed Jones, Banks, Yanda, Chandler, etc. PT was likely to be had right out of the box back then.
We were Iowa State. Hell, in worse shape than them the first 3 years. Only after around 2002 did the shift occur. The 3 year stretch occurred and the classes had I'd say a higher floor quality to them.
The quick fix need was less.
We were Iowa State. Hell, in worse shape than them the first 3 years. Only after around 2002 did the shift occur. The 3 year stretch occurred and the classes had I'd say a higher floor quality to them.
The quick fix need was less.
Iowa fans were bitching Ferentz didn't bring in JUCO LBs 2 years ago. I'm not innocent, I was one of them
Yes, I remember Fry's last season and the first couple seasons under Ferentz very well. It wasn't pretty. I don't think you try to build a team around JUCOs but it makes sense to fill in needs once in a while with some. And, as been discussed tirelessly on these boards for a long time now, Iowa isn't bringing in Top 25 classes year in and year out. So why not pick up a couple JUCOs once in while?
Absolutely nothing wrong with this strategy.
Except possibly, for the fact that ISU does it, so it must be dumb, right?
Count me as one who sees no problem with it, in the SHORT TERM. If you have to rely on it every year, you've got some issues and you're not successful anyway.
By the way, I'm speaking strictly about football. What Hoiberg crafted in basketball would have worked for a long time since one player makes a huge difference in basketball.
By the way, I'm speaking strictly about football. What Hoiberg crafted in basketball would have worked for a long time since one player makes a huge difference in basketball.
Iowa doesn't make enough use of the JUCO system. They should be grabbing a player here or there when there is a specific need. Although I do believe they offered a couple this year but obviously didn't get them. They had that DE they were supposed to get but he couldn't make it academically.
There is a reason these guys were in JUCO. Sure, some may have had the talent but grades kept them out of D1 schools. But a majority were overlooked for a reason. If you are trying to patch a hole do you want a patch that will last 2 years or 4, especially if there is a one year breaking in period.
Poor post. There are plenty of players who were late bloomers or simply missed in the recruiting process.
Signed,
Aaron Rodgers
OJ Simpson
Roger Staubach
Corey Dillon
Mike Rozier
Jason Pierre-Paul
Marshal Yanda
Keyshawn Johnson
Brandon Jacobs
Chad Johnson
Steve Smith
Jeremy Shockey
Bryant McKinney
Phil Loadholt
Absolutely nothing wrong with this strategy.
Except possibly, for the fact that ISU does it, so it must be dumb, right?
No because it rarely works. If you have to do that many every year then something is wrong. It's a slippery slope. Yes, there are times I wished we went juco but not over a couple in some years.
There are exceptions to every rule. But what is that list, like .03% of JUCO players over that time period?
I agree. They rip them for sucking and they rip the new guy that is trying to plug holes.
Powell, Kidd, Greene, Simmons, Sokol, Heair, Guillory, Gattas, Yanda, Belleus, Nate Chandler, Thbeaux.
That's just as far backs as Rivals gone. There are some hits in there, but far more complete misses.
I don't get why people think Kirk won't use the JuCo route or why it's some guaranteed route to a quick fix.
It's clear what KF recruiting strategy is. We like rather smart kids, willing to buy in, put in the work and develop over 3-5 years. When that happens you get years like 2009 or 15. When it doesn't you get 08 or 15. If you have attrition a bunch of JuCos isn't the quick fix and KF would prefer to play younger guys, let them take their lumps and hope that it gets better cause an 11-2 following a 6-7 is better than 8-4 and 84. I don't get why this alluded some fans now for 18 years.
Hell, Bill Snyder not only built the Kansas State program with JC players, he did it with JC players who couldn't get into other schools.
I have no problem with recruiting transfers to fill gaps, and anybody who does have a problem doesn't understand the world in which we live. If Rhoads had done it more frequently/better, he'd still be the coach. This year's defense was much better than last year's, and it was primarily due to the addition of two or three JC players.
I expect the five guys named this week aren't the only ones the new guy will bring in this year; they are just the ones who graduate at the semester and will be in Ames for spring practice. I'm pretty sure we're looking at a couple of quarterbacks -- one JC, the other a grad transfer. We definitely need help there. Lanning isn't going to learn to pass between now and next fall, and even if he did, there's the injury potential.
I have no problem with recruiting transfers to fill gaps, and anybody who does have a problem doesn't understand the world in which we live. If Rhoads had done it more frequently/better, he'd still be the coach. This year's defense was much better than last year's, and it was primarily due to the addition of two or three JC players.
I expect the five guys named this week aren't the only ones the new guy will bring in this year; they are just the ones who graduate at the semester and will be in Ames for spring practice. I'm pretty sure we're looking at a couple of quarterbacks -- one JC, the other a grad transfer. We definitely need help there. Lanning isn't going to learn to pass between now and next fall, and even if he did, there's the injury potential.
In 2002 and 2003 Iowa finished 21-5 with JUCO quarterbacks. Two # 8 poll finishes as well. Just saying.
Hayden's first winning team, which went to the Rose Bowl, was led by a JC quarterback.
He has to do something in order for next season to not be a complete flop. It's usually a bad sign if your program depends on jucos ... In BBall I think you can get away with it more than you can in football ... In football, if you "depend" on jucos that's generally not a good strategy. I think two of the guys were guys he was recruiting to bring into Toledo ...
Actually, next season looked to be an improvement over this season. Very few seniors in major roles this year, especially on defense, where 9 starters were underclassmen. There were 5 seniors starting on offense. Moreover, the top players will be back, including league freshman of the year on offense (Warren) and the newcomer of the year on defense (Tucker). Kickers and kick returners also are back.
He's offered a number of guys who he had pursued at Toledo, which is a concern to some of us.
The clones need to do this because they have lots of gaps to fill. And since they only get them for 2 years in most cases, they have more gaps to fill and more gaps to fill sooner. So, they have to keep filling the gaps and filling the gaps. And for some of you out there, or here, if you have a problem with that, then you don't understand the world in which the clones live.
Why? Toledo is better than ISU. There's one thing K State has that you don't, that's Bill Snyder.
Iowa does its best when their starters are upperclassmen who have been in the system for 3-4 years. JUCOS can be effective, but it isnt a sustainable strategy for college football.
I think everybody agrees this is the ideal scenario. When Nebraska was good, they often had a bunch of fifth-year players in the lines who were starting for the first time in their careers. They occasionally would get a transfer for a skill position.
The problem, as someone pointed out -- and as we all know, anyway -- is becoming overly dependent upon them because you can run into a self-perpetuating need for more of them. Those of you who remember when Jim Walden took over at ISU will remember he faced a shortage of bodies that plagued him for several years. Some thought that was because of penalties assessed against his predecessor, Jim Criner, but that was a small matter. ISU lost 4 scholarships for 1 year. Not much more than a slap on the wrist. The problem was that between the JC kids and the poor character/academic profiles of other recruits under Criner, the numbers were way, way down and since there is a limit on how many players can be brought in per year, it was extremely difficult for Walden (or anybody else in his situation) to get back to where the program was supposed to be.
What works is what works. Each program has its formula. So far it is hard to argue with ISU's system.
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