It isn’t about one game or even one season, right?

[LetsGoHawks83]

14 seasons is a long time to be at a power conference school with nothing in the way of NCAA tourney performance. I would think that's not good enough even for those who care more about the regular season record.

But now he's the all time wins leader. We can never fire him....

Pretty incredible how long we have had our major sports head coaches. I think a cumulative STALE feeling is being felt across our major Mens sports. WBB is the only program with the "juice" right now.

 

[cmhawks99]

But now he's the all time wins leader. We can never fire him....

Pretty incredible how long we have had our major sports head coaches. I think a cumulative STALE feeling is being felt across our major Mens sports. WBB is the only program with the "juice" right now.

Because they are winning at a high enough level for their fans.

MBBs B-ball is probably a little higher than their 50 year average.

Men’s wrestling is still a dominant team, but they are also well below their 40+ year historical average.

Football, is actually still way above its historical average, it’s mostly about Poor offense & “not good enough” wins….

Point being, we are waaayyyy outperforming LBs historical avg in her 24th year….

Funny when you think about it…🤔

 

[LetsGoHawks83]

Because they are winning at a high enough level for their fans.

MBBs B-ball is probably a little higher than their 50 year average.

Men’s wrestling is still a dominant team, but they are also well below their 40+ year historical average.

Football, is actually still way above its historical average, it’s mostly about Poor offense & “not good enough” wins….

Point being, we are waaayyyy outperforming LBs historical avg in her 24th year….

Funny when you think about it…🤔

Which is why it's interesting. Consistency is great, but can also feel stale. Each of the major men's programs feel like they can keep maintaining the level they are right now... Which is historically good.

But is there any sense that the BEST days of these coaches programs is ahead of them?

Feels like an awful lot of "we've seen the best they can do and not sure they can reach those same highs as before"

 

[cmhawks99]

Which is why it's interesting. Consistency is great, but can also feel stale. Each of the major men's programs feel like they can keep maintaining the level they are right now... Which is historically good.

But is there any sense that the BEST days of these coaches programs is ahead of them?

Feels like an awful lot of "we've seen the best they can do and not sure they can reach those same highs as before"

Not trying to be cute or funny here, or make a thinly veiled point… But please remember I said this, these kinds of conversations, I actually enjoy immensely. We have proven to be diametrically opposed many times on here, but in reality I get your premise, I just feel like it needs to be articulated out loud regularly, it is a question, maybe it is time to move on…?

But yet, and again… I know this is a huge anomaly and very “convenient” but we have a generational talent, CC, and a Bluder who really always has been a pretty damn good coach just not elite …

🤷‍♂️ what do you do….

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Because they are winning at a high enough level for their fans.

MBBs B-ball is probably a little higher than their 50 year average.

Men’s wrestling is still a dominant team, but they are also well below their 40+ year historical average.

Football, is actually still way above its historical average, it’s mostly about Poor offense & “not good enough” wins….

Point being, we are waaayyyy outperforming LBs historical avg in her 24th year….

Funny when you think about it…🤔

In the interest of friendly discussion (banter), don’t we need to add context to a lot of those numbers to portray a more accurate picture?

 

[cmhawks99]

In the interest of friendly discussion (banter), don’t we need to add context to a lot of those numbers to portray a more accurate picture?

You would say that….As a perfect example wrestling. It would certainly take a little context, you’re talking about what is routinely, one of the three at the the worst fourth best teams in the country every single year….

Yet from 1975 to 2010, they won 23 NC’s….one since…

That’s a significant number….

But the other 3 aforementioned are above, 2 well above what they have done.

Any numbers added, would be as a point of trying to rationalize your position and personal opinion of how good things are or aren’t…

As far as raw past expectations, they are still outperforming. Whether that’s good enough for some fans, is purely opinion.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

You would say that….As a perfect example wrestling. It would certainly take a little context, you’re talking about what is routinely, one of the three at the the worst fourth best teams in the country every single year….

Yet from 1975 to 2010, they won 23 NC’s….one since…

That’s a significant number….

But the other 3 aforementioned are above, 2 well above what they have done.

Any numbers added, would be as a point of trying to rationalize your position and personal opinion of how good things are or aren’t…

As far as raw past expectations, they are still outperforming. Whether that’s good enough for some fans, is purely opinion.

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote, but why do you always reduce data points to wins/losses on a cumulative level?

Taking your wrestling example (a sport I know little to nothing about), what if in that time frame after 2010, the quality of the product was actually better than the previous 35 years it’s just that the number of national contenders grew exponentially and made it almost impossible to win national titles. How would that change how you view your data set?

 

[cmhawks99]

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote, but why do you always reduce data points to wins/losses on a cumulative level?

Taking your wrestling example (a sport I know little to nothing about), what if in that time frame after 2010, the quality of the product was actually better than the previous 35 years it’s just that the number of national contenders grew exponentially and made it almost impossible to win national titles. How would that change how you view your data set?

Well….thats an interesting thought. One in which I dare say the talent level and number of good teams, has indeed spread out and has made it more diverse. But ultimately the teams that win are still typically the ones with the most built in advantages. Recruiting area, tradition, total resources, et al…in all 3 sports, it’s easier to be somewhat relevant, but still not win at the highest level…

In the case of wrestling, we were Penn St, they just took our place. It used to be Iowa and then 4 or 5 other teams…

Now it’s PSU and maybe 7 or 8 other teams…a wrestling aficionado might quibble with the teams…but Penn St is literally what Iowa was for 35 years.

So really, it’s still hard to fire that coach, but of all the things many of you are mad about in the other sports, wrestling is your definition of falling off. The other sports may not be growing but they have most assuredly not fallen off…

Let me resay that…MBB is off a little, but have never consistently won championships.

In football it’s even more complicated, because for all intents and purposes, we feel so close, but still 100 miles away…

 

[IllQChawk]

I watch Iowa basketball win or lose. Sure I'd prefer that Iowa wins but I've been a Iowa basketball fan since forever and I'm 75, on a fixed income and can only afford to go to a few games a year.
Since I'm from Moline, I'll root for Freeman and Harding every game they play in whether it's for 1 minute or 40, I don't care.
And on the subject of Fran, yes his game coaching is atrocious, time outs are few and far between, substitutions crazy, but he brings in kids that for the most part stay and loves the guy.

 

[LukaDuka]

It's only an upgrade if Fran plays him. I don't have confidence in Fran playing him in the right roll, seeing Tadjo is a defensive minded energy guy. Without a jump shot Fran will anchor him to the bench. It could very well be like Touissant where he gets pulled at the first mistake.

The one highlight I've seen, his shot looks solid. But time will tell

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Well….thats an interesting thought. One in which I dare say the talent level and number of good teams, has indeed spread out and has made it more diverse. But ultimately the teams that win are still typically the ones with the most built in advantages. Recruiting area, tradition, total resources, et al…in all 3 sports, it’s easier to be somewhat relevant, but still not win at the highest level…

In the case of wrestling, we were Penn St, they just took our place. It used to be Iowa and then 4 or 5 other teams…

Now it’s PSU and maybe 7 or 8 other teams…a wrestling aficionado might quibble with the teams…but Penn St is literally what Iowa was for 35 years.

So really, it’s still hard to fire that coach, but of all the things many of you are mad about in the other sports, wrestling is your definition of falling off. The other sports may not be growing but they have most assuredly not fallen off…

Let me resay that…MBB is off a little, but have never consistently won championships.

In football it’s even more complicated, because for all intents and purposes, we feel so close, but still 100 miles away…

I think we mostly have agreement, but I will quibble a little with your point about “other sports.”

Most fans understand the pecking order of college football and basketball and that Iowa is not at the top in terms of prestige, geography, etc. So, this whole counterpoint about Iowa fans being upset Iowa isn’t winning enough doesn’t really land for me. Taking football as an example, no one is irritated Iowa won ten games. The irritation comes from the lack of progress or accountability on the offensive side of the ball, which, to most reasonable people, looks like nepotism as the reason why. And that is completely unacceptable anywhere but especially at a P5 school.

Iowa’s lack of competitiveness in games against quality opponents was the end result. 99% of Iowa fans weren’t upset Iowa lost to Michigan, as an example. They were upset because of the manner in which Iowa lost. Why this is controversial to some of you more ardent apologists will always be a mystery to me.

 

[Buffalo43]

Hey folks lets live in the moment lets take down the goofers for a season sweep