Judge calls DeSantis ban on transgender care unconstitutional

[SeaPA]

I'm happy that both of my children are happy, healthy heterosexual males. If one had transgender issues as a minor, I'd typically expect treatment to have gone the same as if they'd had any other major health issue. They certainly wouldn't have made the decision on their own; my wife and I would have made the ultimate decision after consulting with doctors (both medical and psychological) who have knowledge and experience in the field AND specific knowledge from checking and talking to our kid. I sure as hell would not want the decision to be forcefully made by a governor and 160 legislators who look at the issue primarily through the eyes of how it affects them politically and who have never met/have zero knowledge of the specific situation of my kid.

I'm truly shocked that so many Republicans are perfectly happy turning over health care decisions to government.

 

[joelbc1]

I'm happy that both of my children are happy, healthy heterosexual males. If one had transgender issues as a minor, I'd typically expect treatment to have gone the same as if they'd had any other major health issue. They certainly wouldn't have made the decision on their own; my wife and I would have made the ultimate decision after consulting with doctors (both medical and psychological) who have knowledge and experience in the field AND specific knowledge from checking and talking to our kid. I sure as hell would not want the decision to be forcefully made by a governor and 160 legislators who primarily look at the issue primarily through the eyes of how it affets them politically and who have never met/have zero knowledge of the specific situation of my kid.

I'm truly shocked that so many Republicans are perfectly happy turning over health care decisions to government.

These MAGA Republicans prefer the Orwellian “1984” state…government in your bedroom is perfectly acceptable as long as it supports their agenda.

 

[IACub]

It’s well studied the human brain isn’t fully developed until into your 20’s.

You think a 15 year old should be able to make a gender change decision?
Lmao

My wife works with a man whose granddaughter wanted to become a boy. The parents were all on board. NOW, she wants to be a girl again. She is pissed they allowed her to make those decisions and took testosterone etc.

True story, don’t even try to say I made it up. I’ve told the story in the past.

Can’t wait for the replies.

You'll move the bar as soon as they turn 18. Then again at 21. At what point do you think these deviants should be sent for reeducation?

 

[HawkMachine]

You'll move the bar as soon as they turn 18. Then again at 21. At what point do you think these deviants should be sent for reeducation?

I said I wasn't sure what age was best.

I still think my 22 year old daughter is a KID.

Grown ass adult? Do whatever you want with your junk.

 

[IACub]

I said I wasn't sure what age was best.

I still think my 22 year old daughter is a KID.

Grown ass adult? Do whatever you want with your junk.

Okay, cool. So long as you get to decide what's best for other people's children.

 

[HawkMachine]

Okay, cool. So long as you get to decide what's best for other people's children.

LMAO just give it up.

What's your reply on the example I gave where the minor child decided to make a sex change and then later decided it was a MISTAKE?

 

[IACub]

LMAO just give it up.

What's your reply on the example I gave where the minor child decided to make a sex change and then later decided it was a MISTAKE?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a hell of a lot of thought and counseling and parental consent. I'm just saying that it shouldn't be my decision or yours or Ron Desantis'. Stop assuming you know what's best for everyone in the country based on a single anecdote.

 

[hawkland14]

What other decisions do you think you should get to make for other people?

Imagine thinking this a good argument.

 

[Rifler]

Not even parental consent,.. Gender related surgical procedures should only be performed with the approval of the adult owner of the body in question...

 

[IACub]

Imagine thinking this a good argument.

Imagine thinking you just made any sort of point.

 

[gohawks50]

Not even parental consent,.. Gender related surgical procedures should only be performed with the approval of the adult owner of the body in question...

I think that was already the case before the law.

 

[Rifler]

I think that was already the case before the law.

Apparently not,.. otherwise minors would not have had access to these surgical procedures.

 

[gohawks50]

It’s well studied the human brain isn’t fully developed until into your 20’s.

You think a 15 year old should be able to make a gender change decision?
Lmao

My wife works with a man whose granddaughter wanted to become a boy. The parents were all on board. NOW, she wants to be a girl again. She is pissed they allowed her to make those decisions and took testosterone etc.

True story, don’t even try to say I made it up. I’ve told the story in the past.

Can’t wait for the replies.

How old is the grandchild? What surgeries have they had and at what age did they have them?

 

[gohawks50]

Apparently not,.. otherwise minors would not have had access to these surgical procedures.

Can you provide a link to a case where a minor has had bottom surgery?

 

[Rifler]

Can you provide a link to a case where a minor has had bottom surgery?

Not sure what that would prove,.. Can you provide a link indicating that gender affirming surgery was not available to minors in the state of Florida?..

 

[gohawks50]

Not sure what that would prove,.. Can you provide a link indicating that gender affirming surgery was not available to minors in the state of Florida?..

“Gender affirming care starts with puberty blockers around age 11-14, and will progress to hormone therapy, with surgeries held off until later,” she wrote in an email to the AP.

Medical experts and LGBTQ advocates agreed, noting that such surgeries aren’t offered until a patient becomes a legal adult, though exceptions are made for minor teens who meet certain criteria.

“The general recommendation is for gender affirming surgeries to be done after age 18 with limited exceptions,” Dr. Michael Irwig, director of transgender medicine at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston, wrote in an email. “The patient should always be of an age where they have adequate maturity including the ability to understand the potential risks and benefits of any treatment.”

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health, a global group that sets standards for medical care of trans youths and adults, recommended last year that hormone treatment start no earlier than 14 years old and surgeries be offered only in rare exceptions in persons as young as 15. Both minimum ages were lower than prior recommendations.

Toddlers can’t get gender-affirming surgeries, despite claims

Social media users are sharing a map of the U.S. that purports to show which states are the hardest and which are the easiest to obtain sex change surgery for children as young as 3.

apnews.com

 

[HawkMachine]

Stop assuming you know what's best for everyone in the country based on a single anecdote.

Please respond with a direct quote where I say I know what's best for everyone in the country.

I said I believe there should be some type of age requirement. What age that is, I HAVE NO CLUE.

So you think it's ok for a 10 year old to make a GENDER DECISION and be able to take medication for it?

 

[Rifler]

“Gender affirming care starts with puberty blockers around age 11-14, and will progress to hormone therapy, with surgeries held off until later,” she wrote in an email to the AP.

Medical experts and LGBTQ advocates agreed, noting that such surgeries aren’t offered until a patient becomes a legal adult, though exceptions are made for minor teens who meet certain criteria.

“The general recommendation is for gender affirming surgeries to be done after age 18 with limited exceptions,” Dr. Michael Irwig, director of transgender medicine at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston, wrote in an email. “The patient should always be of an age where they have adequate maturity including the ability to understand the potential risks and benefits of any treatment.”

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health, a global group that sets standards for medical care of trans youths and adults, recommended last year that hormone treatment start no earlier than 14 years old and surgeries be offered only in rare exceptions in persons as young as 15. Both minimum ages were lower than prior recommendations.

Toddlers can’t get gender-affirming surgeries, despite claims

Social media users are sharing a map of the U.S. that purports to show which states are the hardest and which are the easiest to obtain sex change surgery for children as young as 3.

apnews.com

Thank you,.. So apparently this Florida law would merely remove the "limited exceptions" clause described above by a doctor in Boston...

 

[jneffer]

“Gender affirming care starts with puberty blockers around age 11-14, and will progress to hormone therapy, with surgeries held off until later,” she wrote in an email to the AP.

Medical experts and LGBTQ advocates agreed, noting that such surgeries aren’t offered until a patient becomes a legal adult, though exceptions are made for minor teens who meet certain criteria.

“The general recommendation is for gender affirming surgeries to be done after age 18 with limited exceptions,” Dr. Michael Irwig, director of transgender medicine at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston, wrote in an email. “The patient should always be of an age where they have adequate maturity including the ability to understand the potential risks and benefits of any treatment.”

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health, a global group that sets standards for medical care of trans youths and adults, recommended last year that hormone treatment start no earlier than 14 years old and surgeries be offered only in rare exceptions in persons as young as 15. Both minimum ages were lower than prior recommendations.

Toddlers can’t get gender-affirming surgeries, despite claims

Social media users are sharing a map of the U.S. that purports to show which states are the hardest and which are the easiest to obtain sex change surgery for children as young as 3.

apnews.com

well sure...that's what a doctor said

i think we need to wait for a few conservative podcasters to weigh in though...

 

[IACub]

Please respond with a direct quote where I say I know what's best for everyone in the country.

I said I believe there should be some type of age requirement. What age that is, I HAVE NO CLUE.

So you think it's ok for a 10 year old to make a GENDER DECISION and be able to take medication for it?

Probably not, but I'd need to know the kid's full situation - history, mental health, family, and a dozen other factors before I would say anything. What if gender affirmation therapy was determined to be the only thing that would pull this child out of suicidal thoughts? Seems more like a decision to be made by the family and medical professionals than by a grandstanding politician preying on their voting base's stereotypes and biases.

 

[HawkMachine]

How old is the grandchild? What surgeries have they had and at what age did they have them?

I'll have to ask my wife, I can edit this response if needed. The grandpa is a very close co-worker of hers.

I'd guess she is in her late teens right now. I don't believe any surgeries have been performed but I know there was medication. Testosterone, hormone stuff, etc.

EDIT: Wife said she started taking medicine (or whatever you call it) around the age of 15. She said "she got a ways into it" before stopping. Now she's struggling emotionally and pissed at parents.

 

[gohawks50]

Thank you,.. So apparently this Florida law would merely remove the "limited exceptions" clause described above by a doctor in Boston...

It also bans puberty blockers and makes it more difficult for transgender adults to get hormone prescriptions as @TarponSpringsNole stated earlier.

 

[Rifler]

It also bans puberty blockers and makes it more difficult for transgender adults to get hormone prescriptions as @TarponSpringsNole stated earlier.

For minors I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing,.. For adults though, I'd say the leave to the patient and their selected physician...

 

[gohawks50]

For minors I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing,.. For adults though, I'd say the leave to the patient and their selected physician...

Puberty blockers wouldn't do much good it they can't be taken until adulthood.

 

[Tom Paris]

POTUS=President
POTUS does NOT=King

You're right...why does Donald Trump want to be treated as king, with ZERO oversight on whatever decision he makes? Damn you're always 180 degrees off with your opinion on who the bad elements in the government are.

 

[Tom Paris]

These MAGA Republicans prefer the Orwellian “1984” state…government in your bedroom is perfectly acceptable as long as it supports their agenda.

Even though they are banning that book.

 

[HawkMachine]

Seems more like a decision to be made by the family and medical professionals

You assume parents and medical professionals never make wrong decisions.

In my example, which I'm sure there are MANY more, the parents and medical professionals thought they were making the right decision based on the girls feelings at the time. Those feelings ended up being WRONG.

Now she has to live with this decision for the rest of her life.

I feel like this discussion isn't going to end. I'll just leave with this: I have no problem with adults making transitions, I just feel KIDS shouldn't be able to make these type of decisions until later in life.

 

[Scruddy]

Dems are just so desperate to abort or abuse children with medical malpractice.

 

[hawkedoff]

I'm happy that both of my children are happy, healthy heterosexual males. If one had transgender issues as a minor, I'd typically expect treatment to have gone the same as if they'd had any other major health issue. They certainly wouldn't have made the decision on their own; my wife and I would have made the ultimate decision after consulting with doctors (both medical and psychological) who have knowledge and experience in the field AND specific knowledge from checking and talking to our kid. I sure as hell would not want the decision to be forcefully made by a governor and 160 legislators who look at the issue primarily through the eyes of how it affects them politically and who have never met/have zero knowledge of the specific situation of my kid.

I'm truly shocked that so many Republicans are perfectly happy turning over health care decisions to government.

And if you and your wife decided your son wasn't ready to make such a significant decision the school and the state would help them make that decision behind your back. Assuming you were even giving he opportunity to be aware let alone involved. Should you try to stand against the apparatus your child would be taken away and you and your lovely wife labeled abusive.

 

[joelbc1]

Even though they are banning that book.

The world is full of irony, ain’t it?

 

[hawkedoff]

The people responsible for gender affirming care for children belong in prison. It truly is that simple

 

[hawkedoff]

Even though they are banning that book.

Link to Republicans banning the book 1984? Lying comes naturally to you doesn't it?

 

[gohawks50]

Link to Republicans banning the book 1984? Lying comes naturally to you doesn't it?

'1984' among hundreds of books flagged under new Iowa law banning books with sex scenes

While the state has not issued guidance on what to do with flagged books, the state’s Department of Education has said such information is forthcoming.

katv.com

 

[ButtersHawk]

I have shared my views on this and don't believe kids should get any treatment. It's plainly obvious we are some sort of Trans boom.
However I do ask if anyone on here has data or statistics on the parents of these trans kids or is this too new to discuss? How much are they being looked into to begin with?
I absolutely believe there are great parents with trans kids but I've also seen clips and videos online of non-binary parents claiming that their 4 year old came out as non binary.

 

[Rifler]

Puberty blockers wouldn't do much good it they can't be taken until adulthood.

But their absence won't physically harm a minor either...

 

[Tom Paris]

I have shared my views on this and don't believe kids should get any treatment. It's plainly obvious we are some sort of Trans boom.
However I do ask if anyone on here has data or statistics on the parents of these trans kids or is this too new to discuss? How much are they being looked into to begin with?
I absolutely believe there are great parents with trans kids but I've also seen clips and videos online of non-binary parents claiming that their 4 year old came out as non binary.

We have a 3rd grader whose parents, at the end of the year, filled out the paperwork that she is to be considered non-binary. I actually had to have conversations about when I ever separate kids by boys and girls. "You probably want to avoid that." Because of ONE KID whose parents, and we know this, are kind of crazy. My response was, "If it's all legal and paperwork has been done, why can't I say, "Boys over here, girls over there, theys can go wherever they want."?? It's what the family wanted. Own it.

For the record, I don't split by sex very often but when I do, I know have to be cognizant of this crap.

 

[ButtersHawk]

We have a 3rd grader whose parents, at the end of the year, filled out the paperwork that she is to be considered non-binary. I actually had to have conversations about when I ever separate kids by boys and girls. "You probably want to avoid that." Because of ONE KID whose parents, and we know this, are kind of crazy. My response was, "If it's all legal and paperwork has been done, why can't I say, "Boys over here, girls over there, theys can go wherever they want."?? It's what the family wanted. Own it.

For the record, I don't split by sex very often but when I do, I know have to be cognizant of this crap.

May I ask do YOU believe this 3rd grader she is now a they/them or is it the parents?

Thanks for the response by the way, my question isn't meant to be political but it's very very obvious that not every U.S. citizen is fit to be a parent. I do wonder what percentage of these trans minors are getting it pushed on by parents. For instance is it possible that a mentally unstable couple sees their 5 year old son play barbies with a girl cousin or something they then start forcing girl tendencies on the child?🤷🏻‍♂️

IDK, kind of just spitballing here.

 

[Tom Paris]

May I ask do YOU believe this 3rd grader she is now a they/them or is it the parents?

Thanks for the response by the way, my question isn't meant to be political but it's very very obvious that not every U.S. citizen is fit to be a parent. I do wonder what percentage of these trans minors are getting it pushed on by parents. For instance is it possible that a mentally unstable couple sees their 5 year old son play barbies with a girl cousin or something they then start forcing girl tendencies on the child?🤷🏻‍♂️

IDK, kind of just spitballing here.

I'm not 100% sure but there was a nickname to her actual name, that I never used, that she no longer wanted to be called. It would be like calling Elizabeth, Ellie, for example...something like that. I know the older sister has serious anxiety issues. She was having issues with other girls so the principal met with the 4 girls. The one suddenly started smacking herself on the head, saying "I'm fvcking stupid." over and over again. A couple of the other girls said, "Can we please leave?"

So yeah, something is going on with that family.

 

[goldmom]

So you are campaigning to increase the age for gun purchases, military service, alcohol consumption, mandatory public education into the 20s, and hope to keep kids at your house longer (if you have any)? Or are you just selectively using cognitive maturity to apply to one issue?

Worthy observation but existing laws as to these are on the books already.
A thought here is that when one is going to change from Johnny to Sally or vice versa, should a complete evaluation be done of the candidate for their own benefit?

 

[SeaPA]

And if you and your wife decided your son wasn't ready to make such a significant decision the school and the state would help them make that decision behind your back. Assuming you were even giving he opportunity to be aware let alone involved. Should you try to stand against the apparatus your child would be taken away and you and your lovely wife labeled abusive.

I'll give you the opportunity to change my mind; send me links to some of the massive number of stories reporting on how the government has overridden the parents' decisions & forcefully provided the opportunity for minor children to be allowed to hack off their junk.