Just Say No - To States Rights

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I've been suggesting for a while that the main reason we hear so many people pushing the "leave it to the states" mantra is not out of any respect for civil rights or freedom or any of the usual justifications but because they have been snookered. What's so great about leaving it to the states is that few states can withstand or control corruption when they are up against corporations with more power than the state or local governments have.

In other words, what's so great about states rights is that private concentrations of power can get away with whatever they want. And they are willing to take out advertising that promotes the leave-it-to-the-states philosophy in order to gain that "freedom" for themselves.

Here's the report card on state-level integrity. It's noteworthy that the 4th best state in the nation (Hawaii) got a D+.

Alaska rates best - with a solid C. Two others (California and Connecticut) got C-.

Michigan is worst with a solid F. No big shock there. Ten other states also failed.

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2015/11/09/18716/states-flunk-integrity

 

[The Tradition]

Yes, because the feds are paragons of ethical behavior and a lack of corruption.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Yes, because the feds are paragons of ethical behavior and a lack of corruption.

Neither are religious organizations.

Which is true but irrelevant - and should point out how silly it is to immediately play the "Billy does it too" card.

This is about states. It's possible to point out how bad states are without immediately diverting attention to some other problem. Or at least it should be.

And, by the way, if you have been reading my posts for a while, you should know that I bring the very same criticism to bear on the fed as the one I raised here - that the government needs to be big enough to withstand pressure from private concentrations of power. Which leads to the obvious point that if you want smaller government, you need to break up those concentrations of private power.

As Ralph Nader used to say "GM could buy Delaware . . . (wait for it) . . . if duPont would sell it."

 

[The Tradition]

Neither are religious organizations.

Which is true but irrelevant - and should point out how silly it is to immediately play the "Billy does it too" card.

This is about states. It's possible to point out how bad states are without immediately diverting attention to some other problem. Or at least it should be.

And, by the way, if you have been reading my posts for a while, you should know that I bring the very same criticism to bear on the fed as the one I raised here - that the government needs to be big enough to withstand pressure from private concentrations of power. Which leads to the obvious point that if you want smaller government, you need to break up those concentrations of private power.

As Ralph Nader used to say "GM could buy Delaware . . . (wait for it) . . . if duPont would sell it."

States rights was intended to be yet another constraint on the federal government acquiring too much power. But that ended in 1865. Following that, "states rights" is really only those rights with which the federal government chooses to tolerate.

I believe that states should be sovereign and the cliche of "laboratories of democracy" is actually true. How many good ideas adopted by many states started as a good idea in a single state?

Of course, bad ideas spread that way, too. But 50 different governments experimenting with ways of doing things should yield more good ideas than a single federal government can.

Plus, different states have different problems, and can more effectively think about solutions to local problems than people in D.C. can. And federal one-size-fits-all solutions might have wildly different impacts in New York vs. Idaho, for example.

Overall, give me more states rights.

 

[aflachawk]

States rights was intended to be yet another constraint on the federal government acquiring too much power. But that ended in 1865. Following that, "states rights" is really only those rights with which the federal government chooses to tolerate.

I believe that states should be sovereign and the cliche of "laboratories of democracy" is actually true. How many good ideas adopted by many states started as a good idea in a single state?

Of course, bad ideas spread that way, too. But 50 different governments experimenting with ways of doing things should yield more good ideas than a single federal government can.

Plus, different states have different problems, and can more effectively think about solutions to local problems than people in D.C. can. And federal one-size-fits-all solutions might have wildly different impacts in New York vs. Idaho, for example.

Overall, give me more states rights.

I agree. The reason of course is the constitution and the tenth amendment. In addition I believe that government performs better the closer it is to the people it governs

 

[Hawk and Awe]

All power to states? No probably not a great idea in practice.

Some power to states? My god yes. What power does a state have right now? They're essentially funnels for Federal money for many of their most vital functions. Its not exactly inspiring work which may explain (although not excuse) the low grades

What's really interesting to me is states rights advocates that don't believe states can be trusted to set drug policies (I'm looking at you Chris Christie). It's like we've decided the States get to do whatever they want unless it's actually important

 

[ottumwan in tx]

You are correct im a states rights guy and i have zero respect for commie takeover of civil rights movement

 

[lucas80]

Too much power to the states and you wind up with a confederacy, which as we all know doesn't handle a crisis very well. Can't have everyone wandering around without some direction from above. I'm one of those people that is glad someone is telling people that it isn't okay to dump mercury into the waterways. And, as we all know the power to the states people are the first to get all bunched up inside when states decide they are for gay marriage, legalized pot, assisted suicide, or any number of things they don't like.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

We want a confederacy

 

[NoleSoup4U]

WWJD, it's a lot harder to bribe government officials in fifty different states than it is to bribe them in one federal government. Of course, it also creates competition among the states, and while I know you don't like competition, it has been proven to create a higher standard of living.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

We want a confederacy

I just don't like people in California deciding how I should live my life in Florida. There is no one-size-fits-all policy.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

Agreed

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

States rights was intended to be yet another constraint on the federal government acquiring too much power. But that ended in 1865. Following that, "states rights" is really only those rights with which the federal government chooses to tolerate.

I believe that states should be sovereign and the cliche of "laboratories of democracy" is actually true. How many good ideas adopted by many states started as a good idea in a single state?

Of course, bad ideas spread that way, too. But 50 different governments experimenting with ways of doing things should yield more good ideas than a single federal government can.

Plus, different states have different problems, and can more effectively think about solutions to local problems than people in D.C. can. And federal one-size-fits-all solutions might have wildly different impacts in New York vs. Idaho, for example.

Overall, give me more states rights.

I agree with some of that.

The problem is that most people who whine about states' rights are actually trying to circumvent individual liberties. They want states to be able to make it harder for blacks, poor folks and the elderly to vote. They want to degrade education. They want states to be able to deny a woman's right to choose. They want states to be able to end run separation of church and state. And so on.

Personally, I like the idea that the feds set minimum standards on a lot of things - from educational attainment to food safety, from drug laws to toxic wastes - and for the states to be able to implement even better standards. But I strongly oppose states' "rights' to undercut those minimum standards.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

What if the feds say we get minimally zero guns?

 

[Hawk in SEC Country]

Too much power to the states and you wind up with a confederacy, which as we all know doesn't handle a crisis very well. Can't have everyone wandering around without some direction from above. I'm one of those people that is glad someone is telling people that it isn't okay to dump mercury into the waterways. And, as we all know the power to the states people are the first to get all bunched up inside when states decide they are for gay marriage, legalized pot, assisted suicide, or any number of things they don't like.

And that is why you have the power to move if you don't like those things.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I agree with some of that.

The problem is that most people who whine about states' rights are actually trying to circumvent individual liberties. They want states to be able to make it harder for blacks, poor folks and the elderly to vote. They want to degrade education. They want states to be able to deny a woman's right to choose. They want states to be able to end run separation of church and state. And so on.

Personally, I like the idea that the feds set minimum standards on a lot of things - from educational attainment to food safety, from drug laws to toxic wastes - and for the states to be able to implement even better standards. But I strongly oppose states' "rights' to undercut those minimum standards.

I'm not sure you can degrade education any more than we already have. As for your "circumvent individual liberties" talk, it's not like the federal government has a real good track record there.

 

[The Tradition]

The 17th Amendment was a blow to states' rights, too.

 

[naturalmwa]

And that is why you have the power to move if you don't like those things.

Or the power simply to change them and stay right where you live. There is no duty to move.

 

[naturalmwa]

I'm not sure you can degrade education any more than we already have. As for your "circumvent individual liberties" talk, it's not like the federal government has a real good track record there.

That all depends on which state you live in. Iowa for example is historically ahead of the the federal government on protecting individual liberty. Florida and Texas is often behind.

 

[The Tradition]

That all depends on which state you live in. Iowa for example is historically ahead of the the federal government on protecting individual liberty. Florida and Texas is often behind.

Depends on what your definition of individual liberty is.

 

[naturalmwa]

Depends on what your definition of individual liberty is.

Convince me. On what fronts is FL leading the nation (or have led in the past) on the advancement or protection of liberty. Maybe I just am unaware of all the great contributions to freedom that come from that great state.

 

[The Tradition]

For one, I don't have to tell the state how much money I made and from where I obtained it...

 

[NoleSoup4U]

That all depends on which state you live in. Iowa for example is historically ahead of the the federal government on protecting individual liberty. Florida and Texas is often behind.

Do you have any examples? Just remember that the federal government has suspended Habeas Corpus twice in the last fifteen years.

 

[The Tradition]

According to this, Florida ranks #23rd most free and Iowa is #25.

Texas is #14.

Iowa DOES have a slightly higher-ranking than Florida in the "personal liberty" category, but not by much 29 vs. 36 (Texas is #31).

http://freedominthe50states.org/

 

[naturalmwa]

Do you have any examples? Just remember that the federal government has suspended Habeas Corpus twice in the last fifteen years.

Iowa’s Progressive History
Iowa has always been at the forefront of civil rights issues. And although Iowa is located in the heart of middle America, it has always been more progressive than most of the states in the Union. Here are some examples:

• 1838: The Supreme Court of the Iowa Territory (in its first ruling, “In re Ralph”) ruled that a slave from a slave state could not be forced to return to the slave state after the slave reached Iowa soil.
• 1838: Iowa, while still a territory, allowed unmarried women to own property. At that time, women did not have rights and in most of the U.S. they were considered property themselves.
• 1846: The same year Iowa became a state, it became the second state in the nation to allow married women to own property (as long as it did not initially come from her husband).
• 1846: Iowa demonstrated its acceptance of religious minorities by allowing safe passage of the Mormons through western Iowa who were fleeing religious persecution in Illinois.
• 1851: Iowa became the second state to legalize interracial marriage… a century before the rest of America.
• 1851: Iowa legislated that the property of married women did not vest in her husband, nor did the husband control his wife’s property.
• 1857: The University of Iowa became the first state university in the nation to open its degree programs to women.
• 1860: The Iowa State Supreme Court ruled that a married woman may acquire real and personal property and hold it in her own right.
• 1867: African American men were granted the right to vote. The 15th amendment to the U.S. constitution, which did the same thing nationally, wasn’t ratified until 1870.
• 1868: The Iowa State Supreme Court ruled that women could have custody rights.
• 1868: Iowa became the second state to outlaw segregated schools… ninety years before the rest of America. The Iowa State Supreme Court ruled, in the case brought before it by Alexander Clark of Muscatine, that all children in Iowa must attend the same schools.
• 1869: Iowan Julia C. Addington became the first woman in the United States to be elected to a public office. She was elected to be Mitchell County Superintendent. Mitchell county is in northeastern Iowa. Oddly enough, women were not allowed to vote in Iowa at the time. She ran against a man and defeated him. Julia then got nervous about her election and asked the Iowa Attorney General to issue an opinion on her election. He wrote that her election was legal under the constitution of Iowa. That was the first such ruling from any Attorney General in the country. Even more astounding is that within a decade, 75% of the county superintendents in Iowa were women, another first in the nation.
• 1869: Iowa became the first state to allow women to join the bar, thus setting the stage for having the first female attorney in the U.S., Arabella Mansfield.
• 1871: Ada E. North became the first woman in the United States to be appointed to a statewide office. She was appointed the Iowa State Librarian.
• 1873: The Iowa State Supreme Court ruled that African Americans are entitled to equal treatment in public accommodation.
• 1875: Emma Haddock of Iowa City became the first female in the United States to practice law before a federal court.
• 1880: The Iowa constitution was amended to allow African American men to serve in the Iowa General Assembly.
• 1884: The Iowa Civil Rights Act was passed. It prohibited discrimination in public accommodation. It was one of the first civil rights acts in the nation.
• 1885: Iowa once again demonstrated its acceptance of religious minorities as Iowa’s first Muslim immigrants settled in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
• 1890: President Harrison appointed Alexander Clark, an African American from Muscatine, Iowa, to be U.S. minister to Liberia. Mr. Clark became one of the first African American diplomats for the United States.
• 1894: Iowa became the third state in the nation to give women the right to vote (after Wyoming in 1869 and Colorado in 1893). Women could vote if candidates were not involved (such as bond issues). Note: Utah gave women the right to vote in 1870, but then rescinded it soon thereafter. It did not give that right back to women until 1895.
• 1917: The US Army held its first officer candidate class for African American men at Ft. Des Moines.
• 1919: Iowa became the 10th state to ratify the 19th amendment to the U.S. Constitution (which granted women the right to vote). Although Iowa was 10th, it was only short three weeks between the first state ratifying the amendment and Iowa doing the same. Illinois was the first state to ratify the 19th amendment on June 10, 1919. Iowa ratified it on July 2nd, 1919. Note: the final state to ratify the 19th amendment was Mississippi… in 1984.
• 1934: The first mosque built in the United States is built in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. It is now known as the Mother Mosque of America. Cedar Rapids is also the home of the Muslim National Cemetery, the only exclusively Muslim cemetery in the United States.
• 1949: The Iowa State Supreme Court ruled that Katz Drug Store in Des Moines discriminated against Edna Griffin (an African American, also known as the Rosa Parks of Iowa). It was the first successful enforcement of the Iowa Civil Rights Act of 1884. The ruling was preceded by a boycott of Katz Drug Store in Des Moines by both white and black residents. This boycott occurred seven years before the bus boycott in Montgomery, Alabama.
• 1953: Iowa was the only state to defeat a McCarthyistic legislative measure to impose a teacher’s loyalty oath.
• 1953: Iowan Abdallah Ingram, a World War II veteran from Cedar Rapids, convinced President Eisenhower that Islam should be recognized by the U.S. military, along with Christianity and Judaism. Additionally, he successfully urged President Eisenhower to have the symbol “I” for “Islamic” stamped on the dog tags of american muslim soldiers .
• 1962: Iowa becomes the fourth state in the nation to use a merrit selection process for its judicial system. This system prevents politics from influencing judges.
• 1970: Iowa became the second state to adopt no-fault divorce.
• 1970: The University of Iowa became one of the first universities in the U.S. to allow a student GLBT group. It was also one of the first universities in the U.S. to add sexual orientation to its non-discrimination policy.
• 1984: Rich Eychaner, a Republican, became the first openly gay man in the U.S. to run for a voting seat in Congress, running for Iowa’s 4th congressional district.
• 2003: On November 14th Iowa State District Court Judge Jeff Neary in Sioux City granted a divorce to a lesbian couple who had a civil union in Vermont. (This was a year before Massachusetts allowed marriage equality.) The case was appealed by conservatives to the Iowa State Supreme Court.
• 2005: On June 17th, the Iowa State Supreme Court, in Alons v Iowa District Court, ruled that a same-sex couple who had been legally joined in another state could be divorced under Iowa law.
• 2007: Iowa became the second state to allow full marriage equality for gays and lesbians. One gay couple was married before the judge put a stay on his ruling in Varnum v Brien until the Iowa State Supreme Court could rule on the case.
• 2007: Iowa became the fifth state to protect children from bullying due to sexual orientation AND gender identity.
• 2007: Iowa became the seventh state to ban discrimination due to sexual orientation AND gender identity… thus making sexual orientation and gender identity protected classes in Iowa.
• 2008: During the January 3rd caucuses, Iowa Democrats became the first in the nation to select Barack Obama as their choice for president. Iowa is 93% white.
• 2008: On January 18th the Iowa State Supreme Court ruled that second parent adoptions by same-sex couples are legal.
• 2008: On April 3rd Iowa became the 8th state to allow Election Day Registration (EDR) or same day voter registration.
• 2008: The Council Bluffs City Council banned discrimination in Council Bluffs due to sexual orientation AND gender identity.
• 2009: On April 3rd the Iowa State Supreme Court handed down a unanimous decision in Varnum v Brien in favor of full marriage equality for gays and lesbians. Due to the stay on the 2007 district court ruling, this made Iowa officially the third state to allow marriage equality. And it was the first state not on one of the coasts to allow marriage equality and the first state to gain marriage equality with a unanimous decision.
• 2010: On February 17th the Iowa Board of Pharmacy became the first state pharmacy board in the nation to recommend the legalization of medical marijuana AND to change the classification of marijuana to a schedule II drug (one with potential for abuse but accepted medical uses) before either legislators or voters took steps to legalize it. It was a unanimous vote of the Iowa Board of Pharmacy. Only 14 other states have medical marijuana laws.
• 2010: On February 18th Grinnell College, located in Grinnell, Iowa, announced that it has selected Dr. Raynard Kington as its next president. Dr. Kington is the first openly gay, African American college president in the nation. Dr. Kington has a husband and two sons. Grinnell College was founded in 1846 by strict abolitionists and has always been committed to social justice issues. Grinnell is about 50 miles east of Des Moines, just off I-80.

https://councilbluffscommunityalliance.wordpress.com/iowa/iowas-progressive-history/

 

[The Tradition]

Iowa’s Progressive History
Iowa has always been at the forefront of civil rights issues. And although Iowa is located in the heart of middle America, it has always been more progressive than most of the states in the Union. Here are some examples:

• 1838: The Supreme Court of the Iowa Territory (in its first ruling, “In re Ralph”) ruled that a slave from a slave state could not be forced to return to the slave state after the slave reached Iowa soil.
• 1838: Iowa, while still a territory, allowed unmarried women to own property. At that time, women did not have rights and in most of the U.S. they were considered property themselves.
• 1846: The same year Iowa became a state, it became the second state in the nation to allow married women to own property (as long as it did not initially come from her husband).
• 1846: Iowa demonstrated its acceptance of religious minorities by allowing safe passage of the Mormons through western Iowa who were fleeing religious persecution in Illinois.
• 1851: Iowa became the second state to legalize interracial marriage… a century before the rest of America.
• 1851: Iowa legislated that the property of married women did not vest in her husband, nor did the husband control his wife’s property.
• 1857: The University of Iowa became the first state university in the nation to open its degree programs to women.
• 1860: The Iowa State Supreme Court ruled that a married woman may acquire real and personal property and hold it in her own right.
• 1867: African American men were granted the right to vote. The 15th amendment to the U.S. constitution, which did the same thing nationally, wasn’t ratified until 1870.
• 1868: The Iowa State Supreme Court ruled that women could have custody rights.
• 1868: Iowa became the second state to outlaw segregated schools… ninety years before the rest of America. The Iowa State Supreme Court ruled, in the case brought before it by Alexander Clark of Muscatine, that all children in Iowa must attend the same schools.
• 1869: Iowan Julia C. Addington became the first woman in the United States to be elected to a public office. She was elected to be Mitchell County Superintendent. Mitchell county is in northeastern Iowa. Oddly enough, women were not allowed to vote in Iowa at the time. She ran against a man and defeated him. Julia then got nervous about her election and asked the Iowa Attorney General to issue an opinion on her election. He wrote that her election was legal under the constitution of Iowa. That was the first such ruling from any Attorney General in the country. Even more astounding is that within a decade, 75% of the county superintendents in Iowa were women, another first in the nation.
• 1869: Iowa became the first state to allow women to join the bar, thus setting the stage for having the first female attorney in the U.S., Arabella Mansfield.
• 1871: Ada E. North became the first woman in the United States to be appointed to a statewide office. She was appointed the Iowa State Librarian.
• 1873: The Iowa State Supreme Court ruled that African Americans are entitled to equal treatment in public accommodation.
• 1875: Emma Haddock of Iowa City became the first female in the United States to practice law before a federal court.
• 1880: The Iowa constitution was amended to allow African American men to serve in the Iowa General Assembly.
• 1884: The Iowa Civil Rights Act was passed. It prohibited discrimination in public accommodation. It was one of the first civil rights acts in the nation.
• 1885: Iowa once again demonstrated its acceptance of religious minorities as Iowa’s first Muslim immigrants settled in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
• 1890: President Harrison appointed Alexander Clark, an African American from Muscatine, Iowa, to be U.S. minister to Liberia. Mr. Clark became one of the first African American diplomats for the United States.
• 1894: Iowa became the third state in the nation to give women the right to vote (after Wyoming in 1869 and Colorado in 1893). Women could vote if candidates were not involved (such as bond issues). Note: Utah gave women the right to vote in 1870, but then rescinded it soon thereafter. It did not give that right back to women until 1895.
• 1917: The US Army held its first officer candidate class for African American men at Ft. Des Moines.
• 1919: Iowa became the 10th state to ratify the 19th amendment to the U.S. Constitution (which granted women the right to vote). Although Iowa was 10th, it was only short three weeks between the first state ratifying the amendment and Iowa doing the same. Illinois was the first state to ratify the 19th amendment on June 10, 1919. Iowa ratified it on July 2nd, 1919. Note: the final state to ratify the 19th amendment was Mississippi… in 1984.
• 1934: The first mosque built in the United States is built in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. It is now known as the Mother Mosque of America. Cedar Rapids is also the home of the Muslim National Cemetery, the only exclusively Muslim cemetery in the United States.
• 1949: The Iowa State Supreme Court ruled that Katz Drug Store in Des Moines discriminated against Edna Griffin (an African American, also known as the Rosa Parks of Iowa). It was the first successful enforcement of the Iowa Civil Rights Act of 1884. The ruling was preceded by a boycott of Katz Drug Store in Des Moines by both white and black residents. This boycott occurred seven years before the bus boycott in Montgomery, Alabama.
• 1953: Iowa was the only state to defeat a McCarthyistic legislative measure to impose a teacher’s loyalty oath.
• 1953: Iowan Abdallah Ingram, a World War II veteran from Cedar Rapids, convinced President Eisenhower that Islam should be recognized by the U.S. military, along with Christianity and Judaism. Additionally, he successfully urged President Eisenhower to have the symbol “I” for “Islamic” stamped on the dog tags of american muslim soldiers .
• 1962: Iowa becomes the fourth state in the nation to use a merrit selection process for its judicial system. This system prevents politics from influencing judges.
• 1970: Iowa became the second state to adopt no-fault divorce.
• 1970: The University of Iowa became one of the first universities in the U.S. to allow a student GLBT group. It was also one of the first universities in the U.S. to add sexual orientation to its non-discrimination policy.
• 1984: Rich Eychaner, a Republican, became the first openly gay man in the U.S. to run for a voting seat in Congress, running for Iowa’s 4th congressional district.
• 2003: On November 14th Iowa State District Court Judge Jeff Neary in Sioux City granted a divorce to a lesbian couple who had a civil union in Vermont. (This was a year before Massachusetts allowed marriage equality.) The case was appealed by conservatives to the Iowa State Supreme Court.
• 2005: On June 17th, the Iowa State Supreme Court, in Alons v Iowa District Court, ruled that a same-sex couple who had been legally joined in another state could be divorced under Iowa law.
• 2007: Iowa became the second state to allow full marriage equality for gays and lesbians. One gay couple was married before the judge put a stay on his ruling in Varnum v Brien until the Iowa State Supreme Court could rule on the case.
• 2007: Iowa became the fifth state to protect children from bullying due to sexual orientation AND gender identity.
• 2007: Iowa became the seventh state to ban discrimination due to sexual orientation AND gender identity… thus making sexual orientation and gender identity protected classes in Iowa.
• 2008: During the January 3rd caucuses, Iowa Democrats became the first in the nation to select Barack Obama as their choice for president. Iowa is 93% white.
• 2008: On January 18th the Iowa State Supreme Court ruled that second parent adoptions by same-sex couples are legal.
• 2008: On April 3rd Iowa became the 8th state to allow Election Day Registration (EDR) or same day voter registration.
• 2008: The Council Bluffs City Council banned discrimination in Council Bluffs due to sexual orientation AND gender identity.
• 2009: On April 3rd the Iowa State Supreme Court handed down a unanimous decision in Varnum v Brien in favor of full marriage equality for gays and lesbians. Due to the stay on the 2007 district court ruling, this made Iowa officially the third state to allow marriage equality. And it was the first state not on one of the coasts to allow marriage equality and the first state to gain marriage equality with a unanimous decision.
• 2010: On February 17th the Iowa Board of Pharmacy became the first state pharmacy board in the nation to recommend the legalization of medical marijuana AND to change the classification of marijuana to a schedule II drug (one with potential for abuse but accepted medical uses) before either legislators or voters took steps to legalize it. It was a unanimous vote of the Iowa Board of Pharmacy. Only 14 other states have medical marijuana laws.
• 2010: On February 18th Grinnell College, located in Grinnell, Iowa, announced that it has selected Dr. Raynard Kington as its next president. Dr. Kington is the first openly gay, African American college president in the nation. Dr. Kington has a husband and two sons. Grinnell College was founded in 1846 by strict abolitionists and has always been committed to social justice issues. Grinnell is about 50 miles east of Des Moines, just off I-80.

https://councilbluffscommunityalliance.wordpress.com/iowa/iowas-progressive-history/

Like I said, depends on what your definition of "individual liberty" is....

 

[naturalmwa]

According to this, Florida ranks #23rd most free and Iowa is #25.

Texas is #14.

Iowa DOES have a slightly higher-ranking than Florida in the "personal liberty" category, but not by much 29 vs. 36 (Texas is #31).

http://freedominthe50states.org/

I'm not going to give a list that punishes Iowa for high education standards much credence.

"Licensure requirements for private school teachers heavily drag down Iowa’s educational freedom score, along with unusually strict home school standardized-testing and notification requirements."

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I think you might have misunderstood the question. I'm talking about actual laws, not business decisions and history lessons.

I was really asking how Florida is worse than the federal government, but I would welcome specific laws that Iowa has on the books that make it so pro-liberty.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I'm not going to give a list that punishes Iowa for high education standards much credence.

"Licensure requirements for private school teachers heavily drag down Iowa’s educational freedom score, along with unusually strict home school standardized-testing and notification requirements."

If Iowa's standards of education are so high, then I guess most people on this board aren't from Iowa, because I see some real uneducated crap on here.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Neither are religious organizations.

Which is true but irrelevant - and should point out how silly it is to immediately play the "Billy does it too" card.

This is about states. It's possible to point out how bad states are without immediately diverting attention to some other problem. Or at least it should be.

And, by the way, if you have been reading my posts for a while, you should know that I bring the very same criticism to bear on the fed as the one I raised here - that the government needs to be big enough to withstand pressure from private concentrations of power. Which leads to the obvious point that if you want smaller government, you need to break up those concentrations of private power.

As Ralph Nader used to say "GM could buy Delaware . . . (wait for it) . . . if duPont would sell it."

Why would they need to buy Delaware? They've already bought the federal government.

 

[naturalmwa]

If Iowa's standards of education are so high, then I guess most people on this board aren't from Iowa, because I see some real uneducated crap on here.

Apparently that's now called freedom.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Apparently that's now called freedom.

Yeah, I really wasn't holding my breath on any real examples.

 

[naturalmwa]

Yeah, I really wasn't holding my breath on any real examples.

I like to respect your freedom.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I like to respect your freedom.

No you don't. You think you do, but you don't.

 

[aflachawk]

Too much power to the states and you wind up with a confederacy, which as we all know doesn't handle a crisis very well. Can't have everyone wandering around without some direction from above. I'm one of those people that is glad someone is telling people that it isn't okay to dump mercury into the waterways. And, as we all know the power to the states people are the first to get all bunched up inside when states decide they are for gay marriage, legalized pot, assisted suicide, or any number of things they don't like.

I would agree. But the same is true of the Feds. They are extremely incompetent on so much policy. As I said our guide should be the tenth amendment. Give to the Feds the power the constitution assigns them then devolve as much as possible to states and local governments

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I would agree. But the same is true of the Feds. They are extremely incompetent on so much policy. As I said our guide should be the tenth amendment. Give to the Feds the power the constitution assigns them then devolve as much as possible to states and local governments

Didn't you hear? If they did that, white people would just re-institute slavery and start hanging blacks from trees again.

 

[The Tradition]

I'm not going to give a list that punishes Iowa for high education standards much credence.

"Licensure requirements for private school teachers heavily drag down Iowa’s educational freedom score, along with unusually strict home school standardized-testing and notification requirements."

You really don't see those examples as a pretty large infringement on personal liberty? You can't teach ANYWHERE unless the state gives you license?

Florida's ridiculous professional licensing example is requiring ladies who braid hair (primarily African and Caribbean blacks) get an entire cosmetology license in order to legally charge for such services.

 

[naturalmwa]

You really don't see those examples as a pretty large infringement on personal liberty? You can't teach ANYWHERE unless the state gives you license?

Florida's ridiculous professional licensing example is requiring ladies who braid hair (primarily African and Caribbean blacks) get an entire cosmetology license in order to legally charge for such services.

No I think just the opposite, that high educational standards produce liberty. The alternative is on display here.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

No I think just the opposite, that high educational standards produce liberty. The alternative is on display here.

The ends justify the means, huh?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

According to this, Florida ranks #23rd most free and Iowa is #25.

Texas is #14.

Iowa DOES have a slightly higher-ranking than Florida in the "personal liberty" category, but not by much 29 vs. 36 (Texas is #31).

http://freedominthe50states.org/

Heavy right-wing/libertarian lean to those ratings.

A state is judged less free if it has a higher tax burden - and the tax burden counts for 28.6% of the overall rating. That's more than double the weight of their next most important measure of freedom: "freedom from tort abuse" at 11.5%

Are you kidding me? Those are the 2 greatest dangers to freedom?

Look, I'm not saying that taxes can't be a burden and a restriction on liberty, but they don't have to be. It depends on what they pay for and how they are apportioned. Nor am I defending tort abuse - although, again, that depends on what you mean by it.

Their 4th most important measure of freedom is gun control, at 6.6%.

To their credit, they count marriage freedom (gay marriage) as moderately important, at 2.1%

But how about the things that most of us might consider the most important measures...?

Civil liberties get a weighting of 0.6%.
Freedom to travel is weighted 0.5%.