I don't have any insecurities mr hyena. Once those black people were no longer slaves why didn't we exterminate them if that was the goal?
Ken Burns: Being American means reckoning with our violent history
- Thread starter cigaretteman
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Yeah…we should definitely replace it with another complete mythology like the 1619 project and CRT. That should totally help.
Alexander the Great has been estimated to have killed 300,000 to 400,000. Some historians say maybe even millions.
I have listened to all of Dan Carlin’s podcasts. It’s crazy how violent all cultures are. Stories of entire large city’s populations being executed via swords. Each soldier had to kill hundreds with a sword.
to pretend this is some white man from America issue is ignorant at best and more likely ignoring what they know to push a narrative.
Japan exterminated Chinese by the 10’s of thousands. Africa has practiced genocide against each other in multiple instances.
some of you must think before the American White man conflicts were decided by a game of cards.
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Thomas Jefferson was not a confederate. Huck Finn is also being banned for its usage of a word. There’s a petition to try to get the WSJ to cancel their Thanksgiving Day pilgrim editorials. This shit is the OPPOSITE of “reckoning with our past”. But maybe that’s not what’s being referred to here. Seems like it though.
You guys are the ones who always tried to excuse your misbehavior as children with that "Well, Billy did it TOO" line. You just never grew up.
So because a city decided to remove a statue of a slave holder who was sexually abusing some of his female slaves you want to make an issue of this? Did TJ have good ideas and do some good things… sure, but he wasn’t exactly a good person so if someone or a city doesn’t want a statue erected so be it. A petition about Pilgrim editorials??? That’s the best you’ve got? Some contrived holiday about natives and pilgrims coming together and getting along? This happened, but we also know that didn’t last and what the ultimate fate of the natives became. And Huck Finn is laughable. Some feel Twain missed the marked of attacking racism and instead fell into it or maybe just played into stereotypes and that the book isn’t suitable to younger readers. I’ve always felt that should be a parenting decision. It’s odd that this is an issue on a fictional tale when many want to remove real facts from being taught in schools or that they want to remove other books because it doesn’t suit their faith or morals vs just being a parent and telling their kids they can’t read these books and explaining why they can’t. Still… these are reaching if this is what you have.
The people that put those statues up didn't see it as a reckoning with a bad past. They were glorifying opposition to the US and still to this day call it the war of northern agression... get real. There is a reason those statues dont state those men were fighting in the defense of keeping slaves.
Haha what? Because slaves werent exterminated, all is good? This is a dumb point.
Wow - you are an imbecile. I'm mean truly a moron. JFC. It's amazing we have people who not only think like this but are stupid enough to type it out on a message board. Epic idiocy.
To pretend that civilization hasn't evolved and this type of comparison is somehow valid is absurd.
Someone somewhere doesn’t like it so so now add it to the list that Rs will say Ds want banned. I’m all for removal of monuments of the Confederacy. I’m all for teaching what really happened and not the glorified version that makes the US always seem like the hero’s. Our history has warts… share those stories right along with the glorious ones. Tell the good and the bad. And as far as books go… let a parent decide what their kids bring into their home but don’t ban things that others might want to read and learn about:
I agree with you wholeheartedly. The Democrats don't want books banned or burned - that's a republican talking point.
This is why Democrats are going to lose more elections. If your summation of Thomas Jefferson consists of "a guy that had good ideas, but wasn't exactly a good person"... you deserve to lose to Republicans. You take things too far. And, for what? To feign some kind of moral superiority? It comes off as smug and exactly why the left is cast as "hating America." Benjamin Franklin was a misogynist and a philanderer, too. Should we remove his image from everything? Does John Adams meet all your criteria? These men lived over 250 years ago.
Thomas Jefferson, like any human being, was loaded with shortcomings, but, the man did help to author some of the most LIBERAL (especially for the times), and progressive ideas for civilized society to self-govern. The woman he allegedly "raped" was supposedly at his side when he died. So, I don't think either of us know their true relationship.
When people who represent the left insist that the men responsible for our founding ideals and documents were "mostly bad people", don't be surprised when you lose more government offices to radical republicans.
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Sadly Ken, “children” never get the chance to learn because “parents” feel the necessity to filter what their “children” are being taught. The problem that results is best summed up “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.” A lot of false information as well as a lot of “feel good” facts get passed on as gospel, when in fact they are not “facts.” Usually, like most things in life, “the truth” lies somewhere in the middle. Live with it. Kids are a lot better at being kids Han their parents are. Kids can effectively deal with a whole bunch of the “day to day” in their world if they are just allowed to do so.
I have always advocated that Little League ball games should be played at 10am on Wednesday. Parent attendance should be discouraged. Umpires should be under 21 years of age. The kids playing the game would gain a much better experience if these rules were followed.
I have always advocated that Little League ball games should be played at 10am on Wednesday. Parent attendance should be discouraged. Umpires should be under 21 years of age. The kids playing the game would gain a much better experience if these rules were followed.
See you are being a cry baby this now. Not everyone is doing these things. Not every image or mention is being removed. However, for the R's who want small gov't this seems like it's right up their alley... if a city or school wants to remove a statue that should be their choice, right? Has nothing to do with m oral superiority, but more to do with how people look back at right and wrong and how much to celebrate or hype the version that's been sold to us all these years. And, for the woman by his side... she was 14 when she got pregnant while he was mid 40's. He was a powerful rich white man and she was his slave. Tell me why she'd be by his side? Fear? Better there than in his fields? TJ did many good things, but you can't ignore who he was and simply tout the positive and if some don't want a statue or image of him in the town... so be it.
Enjoy losing more elections because you've decided to demonize Thomas Jefferson. I'm sure it's worth it.
I don't think many are demonizing him, but I think some are calling attention to the dark sides of some who have been made out to be heros/icons/etc -about telling the full story and not just the parts some want to have known. And, I would bet very, very few people will have this cross their minds when they decide who they vote for. But, keep trying to make this a wedge issue.
Thomas Jefferson's name is on plenty in this country. So what if a few communities decide they dont want him to represent them anymore? That is hardly mob rule. Its local rule. We should celebrate it.
Im sorry, is someone trying to remove his name from it? Nope. Stop being oversensitive to every little thing.
Avett Brothers may have said it best
I grew up with reverence for the red white and blue
Spoke of God and liberty reciting the Pledge of allegiance
Learned love of country from my own family
Some shivered and prayed approaching the beaches of Normandy
The flag waves high and that's how it should be
So many lives given and taken in the name of freedom
But the story's complicated and hard to read
Pages of the book obscured or torn out completely
I am a son of Uncle Sam
And I struggle to understand
The good and evil
But I'm doing the best I can
In a place built on stolen land
With stolen people
Blood in the soil with the cotton and tobacco
Blood in the soil with the cotton and tobacco
Blood in the soil with the cotton and tobacco
A misnamed people and a kidnapped race
Laws may change but we can't erase the scares of a nation
Of children devalued and disavowed
Displaced by greed and the arrogance of manifest destiny
Short-sighted to say it was a long time ago
Not even two life times have passed since the days of Lincoln
The sins of Andrew Jackson, the shame of Jim Crow
And time moves slow when the tragedies are beyond description
I am a son of Uncle Sam
And I struggle to understand
The good and evil
But I'm doing the best I can
In a place built on stolen land
With stolen people
We are more than the sum of our parts
All these broken homes and broken hearts
God, will you keep us wherever we go?
Will you forgive us for where we've been?
We Americans
Blood on the table with the coffee and the sugar
Blood on the table with the coffee and the sugar
Blood on the table with the coffee and the sugar, mm
I've been to every state and seen shore to shore
The still open wounds of the Civil War
Watched blind hatred bounce back and forth
Seen vile prejudice both in the south and the north
And accountability is hard to impose
On ghosts of ancestors haunting the halls of our conscience
But the path of grace and good will is still here
For those of us who may be considered among the living
I am a son of God and man
And I may never understand
The good and evil
But I dearly love this land
Because of and in spite
Of we the people
We are more than the sum of our parts
All these broken bones and broken hearts
God, will you keep us wherever we go?
Can you forgive us for where we've been?
We Americans
Mm
We Americans
Love in our hearts with the pain and the memory
Love in our hearts with the pain and the memory
Love in our hearts with the pain and the memory
Love
Love in our hearts with the pain and the memory
Love in our hearts with the pain and the memory
Love in our hearts with the pain and the memory
I grew up with reverence for the red white and blue
Spoke of God and liberty reciting the Pledge of allegiance
Learned love of country from my own family
Some shivered and prayed approaching the beaches of Normandy
The flag waves high and that's how it should be
So many lives given and taken in the name of freedom
But the story's complicated and hard to read
Pages of the book obscured or torn out completely
I am a son of Uncle Sam
And I struggle to understand
The good and evil
But I'm doing the best I can
In a place built on stolen land
With stolen people
Blood in the soil with the cotton and tobacco
Blood in the soil with the cotton and tobacco
Blood in the soil with the cotton and tobacco
A misnamed people and a kidnapped race
Laws may change but we can't erase the scares of a nation
Of children devalued and disavowed
Displaced by greed and the arrogance of manifest destiny
Short-sighted to say it was a long time ago
Not even two life times have passed since the days of Lincoln
The sins of Andrew Jackson, the shame of Jim Crow
And time moves slow when the tragedies are beyond description
I am a son of Uncle Sam
And I struggle to understand
The good and evil
But I'm doing the best I can
In a place built on stolen land
With stolen people
We are more than the sum of our parts
All these broken homes and broken hearts
God, will you keep us wherever we go?
Will you forgive us for where we've been?
We Americans
Blood on the table with the coffee and the sugar
Blood on the table with the coffee and the sugar
Blood on the table with the coffee and the sugar, mm
I've been to every state and seen shore to shore
The still open wounds of the Civil War
Watched blind hatred bounce back and forth
Seen vile prejudice both in the south and the north
And accountability is hard to impose
On ghosts of ancestors haunting the halls of our conscience
But the path of grace and good will is still here
For those of us who may be considered among the living
I am a son of God and man
And I may never understand
The good and evil
But I dearly love this land
Because of and in spite
Of we the people
We are more than the sum of our parts
All these broken bones and broken hearts
God, will you keep us wherever we go?
Can you forgive us for where we've been?
We Americans
Mm
We Americans
Love in our hearts with the pain and the memory
Love in our hearts with the pain and the memory
Love in our hearts with the pain and the memory
Love
Love in our hearts with the pain and the memory
Love in our hearts with the pain and the memory
Love in our hearts with the pain and the memory
Actions taken 500-250 years ago and measured by today’s “morals and ethics” is no way to interpret history reliaticly. The study of history means to understand the actins taken and how they relate to the morals, ethics and politics of that time....not to today’s standards.
Where there egregious mistakes made? You bet. Study why they were made.Question why they were made. But dammit....for the most part, you cannot change what has been done in the pSt without upsetting greatly what is going on now. You can make changes so the past mistakes cannot repeat themselves..,but you cannot “undo” the past. Live with it and move on.
This is why “”reparations” are a bad idea. Reparations can never be a rightful solution...and reparations are no more than recreating the offense that has offended so many people already. You don’t correct a wrong by making another equally wrong mistake. .
Is that why hate crimes are up and white nationalists are gathering in public/holding rallies like Unite the Right in Charlottesville and we are seeing confederate flags in places we didn't see them before? Like Iowa and the US Capitol? Yup, better than ever. JFC
History is history, it's not something that wavers or becomes unbalanced unless it's something you're not proud of.
Don’t disagree with what you’re saying but not sure why you linked my post. I see those lyrics as a response to expressing regret for “sins of the past” but seeking a way to move beyond that by acknowledging our commonality and rejecting the divisiness. Perhaps you take something different from it.
I think we often try and make too much science out of history....History is what it was......you can make judgements based off what has happened and compare it to where we are now.....some good and some bad.....but I really oppose the idea of "reparations" based on comparing what has happened long ago....."reparations" is a legal solution for litigations.........history is really no more than a study of what was.....It is dangerous to "mix" the two (law and history) fraught with problems and misunderstandings I fear, in my opinion....
Just something in the lyric, I guess....nothing specific.....My view of history is more that of Sheriff Heck Tate from "to Kill a Mockingbird"....I believe that we should let the dead bury the dead, learn and move on with life. People have lots of trouble doing this nowadays.....My parents (the greatest generation) were much better than us in that regard....and it has gotten worse since my generation (boomers).
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