Kirk Herbstreit: Kirk Ferentz 'deserves' a statue in Iowa City

[jamesvanderwulf]

Both are quality men and very good coaches. I'd like to see a statue of Fry handing the ball off to Kirk, or a statue of Evy with an arm around each of their shoulders. That would be awesome. Those three have accounted for 50 years of coaching and 337 of Iowa's 610 all time wins.

 

[Suterman]

But can they make a statue boring enough?

Well duh. They don't move!

 

[kceasthawk]

Respectfully, I understand your thoughts. But I strongly believe that Kirk will deserve one at the end of his career.

And FYI, I attended Hayden's first game in 1979.

KF will never be fully appreciated until he's long gone.

 

[Eternal Return]

Holy crap! Wow. I'm pretty much between young and old, but I was often told how bad Iowa was before Hayden Fry by my dad and my uncles growing up. Hayden definitely had a horrible stretch in the early-to-mid-90s, but otherwise his contribution to Iowa football history is unassailable. Here, take a look at the records Iowa posted from 1961 to 1978 before Fry became head coach in 1979:

1961: 5-4
1962: 4-5
1963: 3-3-2
1964: 3-6
1965: 1-9
1966: 2-8
1967: 1-8-1
1968: 5-5
1969: 5-5
1970: 3-6-1
1971: 1-10
1972: 3-7-1
1973: 0-11
1974: 3-8
1975: 3-8
1976: 5-6
1977: 5-6
1978: 2-9

Iowa had gone 17 seasons in a row without a winning record. They were as bad as Northwestern was in the 80s during the 60s and 70s. What Hayden did in turning Iowa around was nothing short of astounding. The only reason any of you are spoiled into thinking Iowa should be winning 10 games a year, winning the B10 West every year, and winning the B10CCG every couple of years is because of Hayden Fry. He raised the bar so much that people hated how far the program "fell" between 1992 and 1994 (records of 5-7, 6-6, 5-5-1).

He had 5 total losing seasons and two of those came in his first two years and one in his last year. Between 1961 and 1978 the highest Iowa finished in the B10 was fourth. They did that TWICE in those seventeen years. Hayden Fry, meanwhile, finished fourth or higher in 12 of his 20 seasons. And as far as his total wins go, they only played 11 games per year (bowl game being the 12th) for the majority of Fry's tenure. He would have had some 11 win seasons if they had 12 games plus a bowl and maybe even 12 wins if they'd had a CCG back then.

Here, just to make the case clear in comparison with the numbers above, here are Fry's records by year:

1979: 5-6
1980: 4-7
1981: 8-4
1982: 8-4
1983: 9-3
1984: 8-4-1
1985: 10-2
1986: 9-3
1987: 10-3
1988: 6-4-3
1989: 5-6
1990: 8-4
1991: 10-1-1
1992: 5-7
1993: 6-6
1994: 5-5-1
1995: 8-4
1996: 9-3
1997: 7-5
1998: 3-8

So, people who weren't alive before Fry became coach or know nothing of Iowa football history, hopefully this post helps you understand that Iowa might very well be a program that would have to crane its neck while looking up at Iowa State and Minnesota if Fry hadn't transformed Iowa into a winner. You're welcome. Now show some respect.

 

[kceasthawk]

Holy crap! Wow. I'm pretty much between young and old, but I was often told how bad Iowa was before Hayden Fry by my dad and my uncles growing up. Hayden definitely had a horrible stretch in the early-to-mid-90s, but otherwise his contribution to Iowa football history is unassailable. Here, take a look at the records Iowa posted from 1961 to 1978 before Fry became head coach in 1979:

1961: 5-4
1962: 4-5
1963: 3-3-2
1964: 3-6
1965: 1-9
1966: 2-8
1967: 1-8-1
1968: 5-5
1969: 5-5
1970: 3-6-1
1971: 1-10
1972: 3-7-1
1973: 0-11
1974: 3-8
1975: 3-8
1976: 5-6
1977: 5-6
1978: 2-9

Iowa had gone 17 seasons in a row without a winning record. They were as bad as Northwestern was in the 80s during the 60s and 70s. What Hayden did in turning Iowa around was nothing short of astounding. The only reason any of you are spoiled into thinking Iowa should be winning 10 games a year, winning the B10 West every year, and winning the B10CCG every couple of years is because of Hayden Fry. He raised the bar so much that people hated how far the program "fell" between 1992 and 1994 (records of 5-7, 6-6, 5-5-1).

He had 5 total losing seasons and two of those came in his first two years and one in his last year. Between 1961 and 1978 the highest Iowa finished in the B10 was fourth. They did that TWICE in those seventeen years. Hayden Fry, meanwhile, finished fourth or higher in 12 of his 20 seasons. And as far as his total wins go, they only played 11 games per year (bowl game being the 12th) for the majority of Fry's tenure. He would have had some 11 win seasons if they had 12 games plus a bowl and maybe even 12 wins if they'd had a CCG back then.

Here, just to make the case clear in comparison with the numbers above, here are Fry's records by year:

1979: 5-6
1980: 4-7
1981: 8-4
1982: 8-4
1983: 9-3
1984: 8-4-1
1985: 10-2
1986: 9-3
1987: 10-3
1988: 6-4-3
1989: 5-6
1990: 8-4
1991: 10-1-1
1992: 5-7
1993: 6-6
1994: 5-5-1
1995: 8-4
1996: 9-3
1997: 7-5
1998: 3-8

So, people who weren't alive before Fry became coach or know nothing of Iowa football history, hopefully this post helps you understand that Iowa might very well be a program that would have to crane its neck while looking up at Iowa State and Minnesota if Fry hadn't transformed Iowa into a winner. You're welcome. Now show some respect.

Thats why I commented in an earlier thread, when someone said the only thing KF has done at Iowa is lower expectations. Because without what he and Hayden did, we would have NO expectations of Iowa football. As far as how KF matches up with Fry, its pretty even. He didn't start out with as big a mess as Hayden did, but Iowa was definetly headed in the wrong direction the last couple of years. both in on the field play, and recruiting. I would also say that KF's low marks haven't been quite as low as Fry, and his high mark years have been higher. I love the idea of a statue, of Fry handing off a football to KF. They are Iowa football in the modern era.

 

[AuroraHawk]

There is a big difference between the two. Fry was an innovator and risk taker. Ferentz is the poster boy for playing. it safe. A good way to tell the legacy of the coach is to look at the head coaches their program produces. Fry's coaching tree is legendary. Ferentz coaching tree is non existent. There should not be statues for carrier 7-5 coaches.

Hayden Fry's record over 20 years: 143-89-6
Kirk Ferentz's record over 19 years: 142-97

Total games coached at Iowa by Fry: 238
Total games coached at Iowa by Ferentz: 239

Hayden coached Iowa teams to 143 wins in 238 games.
Kirk coached Iowa teams to 142 wins in 239 games.

So . . . if Fry was surrounded by all of these coaching geniuses and Ferentz has been surrounded by a bunch of coaching dolts . . . why was Fry only able to win 143 of the 238 games?

 

[kceasthawk]

Hayden Fry's record over 20 years: 143-89-6
Kirk Ferentz's record over 19 years: 142-97

Total games coached at Iowa by Fry: 238
Total games coached at Iowa by Ferentz: 239

Hayden coached Iowa teams to 143 wins in 238 games.
Kirk coached Iowa teams to 142 wins in 239 games.

So . . . if Fry was surrounded by all of these coaching geniuses and Ferentz has been surrounded by a bunch of coaching dolts . . . why was Fry only able to win 143 of the 238 games?

I would also add this to your point. I would think the BIG is more balanced top to bottom now then it was from the late 70's to the late 90's. There is a reason they called it the Big 2 little 8 for some time. All credit to HF for putting a dent in that strangle hold that OSU and Michigan had on the league. Just saying that Fry also had some weaker teams in the league to beat up on, not to mention the hot mess that was ISU for most of his tenure at Iowa. Solid growth at schools like Wisconsin, MSU, NWestern, and the additions of PSU, and yes even Nebraska have made the league more competitive then it was.

 

[AuroraHawk]

I would also add this to your point. I would think the BIG is more balanced top to bottom now then it was from the late 70's to the late 90's. There is a reason they called it the Big 2 little 8 for some time. All credit to HF for putting a dent in that strangle hold that OSU and Michigan had on the league. Just saying that Fry also had some weaker teams in the league to beat up on, not to mention the hot mess that was ISU for most of his tenure at Iowa. Solid growth at schools like Wisconsin, MSU, NWestern, and the additions of PSU, and yes even Nebraska have made the league more competitive then it was.

College football, as a whole, is more balanced and more competitive. Yet, Ferentz's Iowa teams have finished in the top 10 on five separate occasions - in 19 years. Fry's Iowa teams finished in the top 10 twice in 20 years.

This is by no means a swipe a Fry. Without question, he is an Iowa legend.

This is directed at the armchair "I could do a better job recruiting players and coaching the players than Ferentz and his staff" folks who want to run both Kirk Ferentz and Brian Ferentz out of town.

 

[trippnschmidt]

Holy crap! Wow. I'm pretty much between young and old, but I was often told how bad Iowa was before Hayden Fry by my dad and my uncles growing up. Hayden definitely had a horrible stretch in the early-to-mid-90s, but otherwise his contribution to Iowa football history is unassailable. Here, take a look at the records Iowa posted from 1961 to 1978 before Fry became head coach in 1979:

1961: 5-4
1962: 4-5
1963: 3-3-2
1964: 3-6
1965: 1-9
1966: 2-8
1967: 1-8-1
1968: 5-5
1969: 5-5
1970: 3-6-1
1971: 1-10
1972: 3-7-1
1973: 0-11
1974: 3-8
1975: 3-8
1976: 5-6
1977: 5-6
1978: 2-9

Iowa had gone 17 seasons in a row without a winning record. They were as bad as Northwestern was in the 80s during the 60s and 70s. What Hayden did in turning Iowa around was nothing short of astounding. The only reason any of you are spoiled into thinking Iowa should be winning 10 games a year, winning the B10 West every year, and winning the B10CCG every couple of years is because of Hayden Fry. He raised the bar so much that people hated how far the program "fell" between 1992 and 1994 (records of 5-7, 6-6, 5-5-1).

He had 5 total losing seasons and two of those came in his first two years and one in his last year. Between 1961 and 1978 the highest Iowa finished in the B10 was fourth. They did that TWICE in those seventeen years. Hayden Fry, meanwhile, finished fourth or higher in 12 of his 20 seasons. And as far as his total wins go, they only played 11 games per year (bowl game being the 12th) for the majority of Fry's tenure. He would have had some 11 win seasons if they had 12 games plus a bowl and maybe even 12 wins if they'd had a CCG back then.

Here, just to make the case clear in comparison with the numbers above, here are Fry's records by year:

1979: 5-6
1980: 4-7
1981: 8-4
1982: 8-4
1983: 9-3
1984: 8-4-1
1985: 10-2
1986: 9-3
1987: 10-3
1988: 6-4-3
1989: 5-6
1990: 8-4
1991: 10-1-1
1992: 5-7
1993: 6-6
1994: 5-5-1
1995: 8-4
1996: 9-3
1997: 7-5
1998: 3-8

So, people who weren't alive before Fry became coach or know nothing of Iowa football history, hopefully this post helps you understand that Iowa might very well be a program that would have to crane its neck while looking up at Iowa State and Minnesota if Fry hadn't transformed Iowa into a winner. You're welcome. Now show some respect.

Good thing we hired a replacement who has been able to keep it going.

 

[hawkmart]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, Kirk's statue must include some gum

 

[SoFla-Hawkeye]

For the KF haters maybe we could erect a statue of him standing in line at the bank waiting to cash his check

 

[NorthDSMHawk]

...on top of the water tower

I like your idea, but raise you the Magic Bus.

 

[m.stoops2013]

We could have Kirk holding a football and the hand of a child from the children's hospital. Kinda fits, and I don't say that to be humorous. Kirk is an Iowan who lives here because he wants to live here. And he's done much for the hospital as well as our football program. Seems fitting to me and would be a great addition in front of the children's hospital.

Couldn't do that at penn state.

 

[NorthDSMHawk]

Couldn't do that at penn state.

Their fanbase has made it clear that they wouldn't care.

You could have the ball switched out for a gauze pad full of chloroform and some of their fans would still go take pictures/light vigil candles at it.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

yep, who cares if you stuck with the same school for longer than some of your players have been alive....

His longevity is a much due to the admin and boosters as it is, his level of success. Much has been made about Kirk "catching" Hayden in wins. It's not the number, it's the percentage that matters most. Career 7-5 is certainly good, but it's not "Great".

 

[thewop]

We'll give him a day instead

all of eastern Iowa gets KF's birthday off...LOL.

Oh, except KF, he has to work.

 

[bagdropper]

I lived through the 70's. Any poster on this board that was born and raised after that has no clue how bad it truly can get here at Iowa.

I grew up thinking Iowa would NEVER be good at football. It was surprising whenever they won. The Iowa offense back then consisted of run twice for 4 total yards, and on third down whomever was the QB running for his life trying to pass.

In 1972, Iowa's leading passer totaled 356 yards. Iowa passed for a total of 825 yards that year.

In 1975, Iowa AVERAGED 3 pass completions a game. 597 total yards passing for the SEASON.

Not once did Iowa average +300 total yards a game from 1971 to 1978.

Iowa TD's by year...

1971 = 16
1972 = 14
1973 = 17
1974 = 19
1975 = 21
1976 = 20
1977 = 21
1978 = 16

Not once did Iowa have more TD passes than Interceptions - in fact most years the INT's outnumbered INT's 3 to 1. In one year, Iowa had 4 TD's passing with 17 INT's. Another year, 2 TD's with 15 INT's.

So, I am thankful for Hayden Fry for bringing Iowa out of the depths of being the absolute worst B10 program in the conference, but I am equally thankful for Kirk Ferentz for maintaining roughly the exact same level of success as Fry did.

 

[Herkmeister]

His longevity is a much due to the admin and boosters as it is, his level of success. Much has been made about Kirk "catching" Hayden in wins. It's not the number, it's the percentage that matters most. Career 7-5 is certainly good, but it's not "Great".

To me there is more than just the wins. But perhaps that's just me.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

To me there is more than just the wins. But perhaps that's just me.

Kirk is solid citizen, no doubt about that. But let's not do another survey, Gary.

 

[Herkmeister]

Kirk is solid citizen, no doubt about that. But let's not do another survey, Gary.

Gary? LOL

HawkIDrummer, that may be my favorite post of all time. Thanks.

May you have a GREAT day.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

Gary? LOL

HawkIDrummer, that may be my favorite post of all time. Thanks.

May you have a GREAT day.

Rock on Herk...where would we be without our sense of humor.

 

[Herkmeister]

Rock on Herk...where would we be without our sense of humor.

I'd probably have a better job.

 

[iahawkeyes17]

Hayden Fry's record over 20 years: 143-89-6
Kirk Ferentz's record over 19 years: 142-97

Total games coached at Iowa by Fry: 238
Total games coached at Iowa by Ferentz: 239

Hayden coached Iowa teams to 143 wins in 238 games.
Kirk coached Iowa teams to 142 wins in 239 games.

So . . . if Fry was surrounded by all of these coaching geniuses and Ferentz has been surrounded by a bunch of coaching dolts . . . why was Fry only able to win 143 of the 238 games?

Just like with Fry after all is said and done and time passes people will appreciate him more. I remember last few years of Fry there were some people if this board would have been around would be just as upset with his results last 6-7 years. I think with records Hayden had tougher non conference schedules but KF conference schedule is tougher these days with more programs like Wisconsin, N'Western being competitive and not the big 2 little 8 persona the conference had in the 80s.

 

[cmhawks99]

I would also add this to your point. I would think the BIG is more balanced top to bottom now then it was from the late 70's to the late 90's. There is a reason they called it the Big 2 little 8 for some time. All credit to HF for putting a dent in that strangle hold that OSU and Michigan had on the league. Just saying that Fry also had some weaker teams in the league to beat up on, not to mention the hot mess that was ISU for most of his tenure at Iowa. Solid growth at schools like Wisconsin, MSU, NWestern, and the additions of PSU, and yes even Nebraska have made the league more competitive then it was.

Without a doubt, honestly the Big 10 as a whole owes Hayden a debt of gratitude for changing its portfolio and on that note it is waaaaayyy more competitive than it was in the 80's/early 90's. But to be fair college football in its entirety is way more balanced and competitive.

As I said early in some thread; Oklahoma has lost 8 games in the last 7 years as double digit favorites. 2 as 30 point favorites.....its really tough to win.

 

[cmhawks99]

For the KF haters maybe we could erect a statue of him standing in line at the bank waiting to cash his check

Oh yeah that's awesome....!!!! I'll even donate to that.

 

[kceasthawk]

His longevity is a much due to the admin and boosters as it is, his level of success. Much has been made about Kirk "catching" Hayden in wins. It's not the number, it's the percentage that matters most. Career 7-5 is certainly good, but it's not "Great".

Agree that winning % would be a better indicator. If Iowa wins their bowl, KF will have the same number of wins in two more games coached. Not really much difference really, don't you think?

 

[cmhawks99]

Their fanbase has made it clear that they wouldn't care.

You could have the ball switched out for a gauze pad full of chloroform and some of their fans would still go take pictures/light vigil candles at it.

That's disgusting but for some of them, true all the same.

 

[cmhawks99]

His longevity is a much due to the admin and boosters as it is, his level of success. Much has been made about Kirk "catching" Hayden in wins. It's not the number, it's the percentage that matters most. Career 7-5 is certainly good, but it's not "Great".

I'm assuming you are referencing both men?

 

[kceasthawk]

His longevity is a much due to the admin and boosters as it is, his level of success. Much has been made about Kirk "catching" Hayden in wins. It's not the number, it's the percentage that matters most. Career 7-5 is certainly good, but it's not "Great".

True, but theres context as well. First off I believe KF average wins per year is 7.8 per season. I guess you could say thats nit picking, but as an optimist, I'm calling that 8 wins per year. Also what some of us have tried to convey here is that 7 or 8 wins per is a heck of a jump from the 3 wins or less that Iowa got pre 1977. Add in the fact that almost every 4 to 5 year recruiting cycle KF runs out a 10 or 11 win team, and has Iowa in the mix for a conference title or better. Thats not really too darn bad. I'd bet if you went through all the division one schools, without say Bama, OSU, Michigan, FSU, Oklahoma, and maybe a couple more, you'd be hard pressed to find many schools who have been more consistantly good then Iowa in the last 40 years. Add in the fact that Iowa has not sold their soul to the devil to compete, and there's plenty to be proud of here.

 

[Eternal Return]

Thats why I commented in an earlier thread, when someone said the only thing KF has done at Iowa is lower expectations. Because without what he and Hayden did, we would have NO expectations of Iowa football. As far as how KF matches up with Fry, its pretty even. He didn't start out with as big a mess as Hayden did, but Iowa was definetly headed in the wrong direction the last couple of years. both in on the field play, and recruiting. I would also say that KF's low marks haven't been quite as low as Fry, and his high mark years have been higher. I love the idea of a statue, of Fry handing off a football to KF. They are Iowa football in the modern era.

I agree with you. I want to see how the next two seasons play out under KF right now, but there is a part of me that thinks Kirk might be entering that end of tenure part of his career that was similar to Hayden's last years at the helm. Yeah, Kirk's rebuilding job wasn't nearly as profound as Fry's, not by a long shot, but I was certainly impressed with how he brought the program back up after his first few years. And I loved his work throughout the 2000s, really up to 2010. He had that 2011-2014 stretch that was similar to Fry's 1992-1994 stretch and in 2015 to this year sort of reminds me of Fry's mid-90s resurgence from 1995 to 1997 with his 1997 year reminiscent of this year's underperformance. What will next year bring?

Overall, I like the idea of a statue with the two of them. Kirk was one of Fry's disciples, too. I could see Ferentz bending over slightly to scribble on his notebook like he does after a penalty and Fry grinning with his hand on Kirk's shoulder, a sign of affection and tutelage.

 

[cmhawks99]

I agree with you. I want to see how the next two seasons play out under KF right now, but there is a part of me that thinks Kirk might be entering that end of tenure part of his career that was similar to Hayden's last years at the helm. Yeah, Kirk's rebuilding job wasn't nearly as profound as Fry's, not by a long shot, but I was certainly impressed with how he brought the program back up after his first few years. And I loved his work throughout the 2000s, really up to 2010. He had that 2011-2014 stretch that was similar to Fry's 1992-1994 stretch and in 2015 to this year sort of reminds me of Fry's mid-90s resurgence from 1995 to 1997 with his 1997 year reminiscent of this year's underperformance. What will next year bring?

Overall, I like the idea of a statue with the two of them. Kirk was one of Fry's disciples, too. I could see Ferentz bending over slightly to scribble on his notebook like he does after a penalty and Fry grinning with his hand on Kirk's shoulder, a sign of affection and tutelage.

Here is why I don't agree on the KF/HF thought...for one KF is much younger, 2nd Hayden had some significant health issues people didn't know about, 3rd KF has a great mixture of Older experienced guys and young go getters on staff and mostly, they are seemingly recruiting BETTER every year where as I felt Hayden's staff dropped off significantly in the last few years.

 

[Eternal Return]

Here is why I don't agree on the KF/HF thought...for one KF is much younger, 2nd Hayden had some significant health issues people didn't know about, 3rd KF has a great mixture of Older experienced guys and young go getters on staff and mostly, they are seemingly recruiting BETTER every year where as I felt Hayden's staff dropped off significantly in the last few years.

Yeah, that's why I said I'll wait to see next year. The staff shake up last year and the improved recruiting the past two years may be what prevents KF from going into a tailspin the next couple years. But before GD was "retired" it really did look similar to the end of Fry's tenure. I like the youth on the team, the recruiting improvement was just starting to show--though their inconsistency was maddening. If they can improve next year then I'll probably hop off the fence.

Oh, one last thing, Hayden was 8-4, 9-3, 7-5, and 3-8 his last four years. The 7-5 year was a huge disappointment with Dwight and Banks as seniors. But it was only his last year when it became absolutely apparent that his team had really dropped off. But he had some good young talent on that team. Some attrition, too, after '98. But once those young guys got older, they were a big part of Iowa getting back to bowl games under Ferentz. Anyway, my point is that both have been good coaches at Iowa and both have had rough spots in their tenure after their first decade. Like you said, Fry had illnesses that prevented him from continuing his run rather than "he just lost it" or "the game passed him by." Fry also had to deal with all of his great assistants moving on to head coaching jobs in the 90s. That set him back in a big way. And now Kirk has reloaded so we'll see.

 

[NevadaHawk]

I like the idea of the HF and the KF statues right next to each other. One of them brought us out of the dark ages. The other has kept us from going back.

 

[H4wkfan4life]

His longevity is a much due to the admin and boosters as it is, his level of success. Much has been made about Kirk "catching" Hayden in wins. It's not the number, it's the percentage that matters most. Career 7-5 is certainly good, but it's not "Great".

To me, it's not fair to put the first couple years on a coach, as they're typically rebuilding.
Take away KF and HF first 2 years and here's the records.
138-78 KF
134-76 HF

pretty much identical.....

 

[Franisdaman]

I try to look at the facts.

Lets face it. Fry had 7 bad/mediocre seasons in this last 11!!!

1988: 6-4-3
1989: 5-6-0
1992: 5-7
1993: 6-6
1994: 5-5-1
1997: 7-5
1998: 3-8

Why does he get a pass? 7 bad season in his last 11!!!

KF inherited a mess from Fry; I was at Fry's last game in the Metrodome and there was whispering that his players quit on him that season! And anybody that witnessed that game had to be worried about what was to come, not only in the new coach BUT if we would be able to dig out of the hole Fry left the program in.

KF took the mess that Fry left him and won ONE game his first year and just 3 games his 2nd year. You don't think that took a look of work to turn things around? But hey, lets give Fry a pass on the mess he left KF.

Even the great Hayden Fry struggled to win at Iowa. For every 3 games Hayden won, he lost 2. Think about that for a second.

Fry never won a BCS level bowl game. He got blown out in every Rose Bowl he appeared in. He never won a national title.

But hey, lets re-write history and continue to rip on KF.

I love Hayden Fry and I love what he did for Iowa. But I am not going to ignore things like what I typed above.

 

[cmhawks99]

I try to look at the facts.

Lets face it. Fry had 7 bad/mediocre seasons in this last 11!!!

1988: 6-4-3
1989: 5-6-0
1992: 5-7
1993: 6-6
1994: 5-5-1
1997: 7-5
1998: 3-8

Why does he get a pass? 7 bad season in his last 11!!!

KF inherited a mess from Fry; I was at Fry's last game in the Metrodome and there was whispering that his players quit on him that season! And anybody that witnessed that game had to be worried about what was to come, not only in the new coach BUT if we would be able to dig out of the hole Fry left the program in.

KF took the mess that Fry left him and won ONE game his first year and just 3 games his 2nd year. You don't think that took a look of work to turn things around? But hey, lets give Fry a pass on the mess he left KF.

Even the great Hayden Fry struggled to win at Iowa. For every 3 games Hayden won, he lost 2. Think about that for a second.

Fry never won a BCS level bowl game. He got blown out in every Rose Bowl he appeared in. He never won a national title.

But hey, lets re-write history and continue to rip on KF.

I love Hayden Fry and I love what he did for Iowa. But I am not going to ignore things like what I typed above.

It is refreshing to know I'm not the only one that has been baffled by this Hayden is great, Kirk is awful dichotomy that is so prevalent in here at times.

And Ive been assured on multiple occasions that it isn't happening so clearly you guys see it to.

Hayden was great and without him we are still on moribund program but he didn't do anything KF hasnt done at least as well if not better.

 

[beans 33]

I think its interesting how so many people forget how bad Iowa was before Hayden. Ill never buy the arguement that is "was just as bad" when Kirk took over. Thats complete bullshit.

And I totally agree with that statement. Have never met Ferentz, but Fry was funny and about as down to earth as they come. You did not want to get in a pissing match with him. Fry made Iowa "sexy", Ferentz says we aren't very sexy. Fry was unpredictable, Ferentz way too predictable.

Both have won and won big at Iowa and we have consistently been competitive. A few exceptions 89, 93, 98, 99, 2000, 2012. Not bad over 37 years.

 

[Herkmeister]

For the KF haters maybe we could erect a statue of him standing in line at the bank waiting to cash his check

For the Kirk haters, Kirk has something else in mind.

 

[Eternal Return]

To me, it's not fair to put the first couple years on a coach, as they're typically rebuilding.
Take away KF and HF first 2 years and here's the records.
138-78 KF
134-76 HF

pretty much identical.....

I love Fry and I still believe he's the better coach because of how far down Iowa was and the fact that he was the one who revolutionized passing offenses in the B10, but KF also has one big advantage over Hayden in that he won the Orange Bowl. He still hasn't won a Rose Bowl, but the BCS and CFP have made that less of a testament to what a great B10 coach has accomplished. The Orange Bowl win was equivalent (sort of) to a Rose Bowl win. Fry never won one of those. I have to add one more caveat in the sense that there were so many fewer bowl games back then so Hayden's bowl appearances were much more impressive.

For example, Iowa wouldn't be going to a bowl this year if this was 1981 or 1983 or 1986. They're 7th in the B10 overall. You couldn't make a bowl game back then finishing seventh in the conference. I know, it's expanded conferences as well as expanded bowls so it is difficult to compare the two. Nevertheless, getting into a bowl game back then was a serious accomplishment. I don't remember anyone thumbing their noses at bowl games in the 1980s like they do now. When a third of all FBS programs get to go to bowl games every year it really doesn't say much unless a team is in the upper-tier bowls.

I'll let someone else do the metrics on bowl availability versus bowl eligibility then and now. If you're bowl eligible in a Power 5 conference nowadays (.500 record) you automatically go to a bowl. That wasn't the case in the 1980s.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

Hayden was a pioneer...he invented the 3rd and 10 draw play!