Klepper debunks the “good guy with a gun” myth

May 17, 2021
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Truth: in only 3% of cases Do good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns. The other 97% are stopped by people who are unarmed.

if we arm people who are not professionals, it will be not just a bloodbath, but a potential war zone everywhere at all times.

and below is in my opinion the most tragic as well as tragically hilarious video Jordan Klepper has ever made. He cuts right to the heart of the sick capitalist hypocrisy of our corporate driven so-called gun culture.

 

hawkifann

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Even in the most altruistic, optimistic scenarios where the shooter is an untrained idiot:
  • Shooter has element of surprise
  • Shooter may target those likely to have guns first
  • If shooter has a high-volume weapon, there may be significant casualties before good guy with gun can respond
  • Good guy with gun may get sealed out of the attack zone
  • Good guy with gun may not actually respond
  • Good guy with gun may not have the gun that day
  • Good guy with gun may be trained, but has never been in a heat-of-the-moment shootout and nerves are very real
Relying on a good guy with gun as a defense strategy requires a lot of things to go right. Someone well trained with a gun has to be in a position to respond, be willing to respond AND respond successfully. Good guy with gun who is not well-trained may contribute to the damage and do more harm than good.
 

Joes Place

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Even in the most altruistic, optimistic scenarios where the shooter is an untrained idiot:
  • Shooter has element of surprise
  • Shooter may target those likely to have guns first
  • If shooter has a high-volume weapon, there may be significant casualties before good guy with gun can respond
  • Good guy with gun may get sealed out of the attack zone
  • Good guy with gun may not actually respond
  • Good guy with gun may not have the gun that day
  • Good guy with gun may be trained, but has never been in a heat-of-the-moment shootout and nerves are very real
Relying on a good guy with gun as a defense strategy requires a lot of things to go right. Someone well trained with a gun has to be in a position to respond, be willing to respond AND respond successfully. Good guy with gun who is not well-trained may contribute to the damage and do more harm than good.

  • Multiple "good guys with guns" might all start shooting at each other, when no one is wearing an "I'm the actual bad guy here" T-shirt
 

Hawki97

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There is ZERO chance that Joe is a PhD.

There is ZERO chance you’ll ever wake up.

TDE-167-Wake-Up-Warrior-with-Garret-J-White2.jpg
 

seminole97

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Good guy with gun who is not well-trained may contribute to the damage and do more harm than good.
Are there examples where this has happened?
I’ve read about several civilian interventions, but not where they end up doing more harm than good.
 

Gimmered

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Even in the most altruistic, optimistic scenarios where the shooter is an untrained idiot:
  • Shooter has element of surprise
  • Shooter may target those likely to have guns first
  • If shooter has a high-volume weapon, there may be significant casualties before good guy with gun can respond
  • Good guy with gun may get sealed out of the attack zone
  • Good guy with gun may not actually respond
  • Good guy with gun may not have the gun that day
  • Good guy with gun may be trained, but has never been in a heat-of-the-moment shootout and nerves are very real
Relying on a good guy with gun as a defense strategy requires a lot of things to go right. Someone well trained with a gun has to be in a position to respond, be willing to respond AND respond successfully. Good guy with gun who is not well-trained may contribute to the damage and do more harm than good.
And yet this happened just this week.

 
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hawkifann

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And yet this happened just this week.

It can happen, just saying relying on it as a planned defense strategy has a lot of flaws.
 

hawkifann

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Are there examples where this has happened?
I’ve read about several civilian interventions, but not where they end up doing more harm than good.
I’m sure at some point a bad shot has clipped an unintended target, but most of the time, if someone isn’t confident, they’re not going to engage.
 

alaskanseminole

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Oct 20, 2002
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Truth: in only 3% of cases Do good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns. The other 97% are stopped by people who are unarmed.

if we arm people who are not professionals, it will be not just a bloodbath, but a potential war zone everywhere at all times.

and below is in my opinion the most tragic as well as tragically hilarious video Jordan Klepper has ever made. He cuts right to the heart of the sick capitalist hypocrisy of our corporate driven so-called gun culture.

I think what's missing from that statistic is what % of the population is armed vs unarmed. I'd venture to say if there are 1,000 people walking around a shopping mall, maybe 5 people are actually armed.

FYI: I'm not advocating more people be armed. Goodness no.
 

seminole97

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Oh it happens. Arvada co bad guy shoots woman,good guy with gun shoots bad guy. Cops show up and shoot good guy. No good deed goes unpunished.
I’m aware of incidents where the cops have shown up and caused more harm, I was looking for the stories of armed civilians causing more harm in one of these scenarios.

 
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hawkifann

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What is your planned defense strategy?
Layers.
  • Increase responsibility and training of gun owners by requiring safety training
  • Reduce the number of people who shouldn’t own guns that do through consistent background checks and waiting periods​
  • Stack as many reasonable security measures as possible on potential targets - locks, man-traps, cameras, guards, whatever mix of those makes sense for the venue you’re protecting
  • Better mental health care and allow for the background check processes to incorporate that
  • There are probably plenty more we could add to this list.
 
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alaskanseminole

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Layers.
  • Increase responsibility and training of gun owners by requiring safety training
  • Reduce the number of people who shouldn’t own guns that do through consistent background checks and waiting periods​
  • Stack as many reasonable security measures as possible on potential targets - locks, man-traps, cameras, guards, whatever mix of those makes sense for the venue you’re protecting
  • Better mental health care and allow for the background check processes to incorporate that
  • There are probably plenty more we could add to this list.
Imagine the security measures that could be placed at schools if entities like the MLB, NFL, NBA, Amazon, Tesla, Microsoft, etc. decided to pool their financial resources and jump into action.
 
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hawkifann

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Imagine the security measures that could be placed at schools if entities like the MLB, NFL, NBA, Amazon, Tesla, Microsoft, etc. decided to pool their financial resources and jump into action.
School security can also only go so far. Young kids need to get outside for recess. Some middle and high schools have multiple buildings and/or trailers and kids are regularly moving about inside plus schools utilize a lot of volunteers.
 

Gimmered

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Layers.
  • Increase responsibility and training of gun owners by requiring safety training
  • Reduce the number of people who shouldn’t own guns that do through consistent background checks and waiting periods​
  • Stack as many reasonable security measures as possible on potential targets - locks, man-traps, cameras, guards, whatever mix of those makes sense for the venue you’re protecting
  • Better mental health care and allow for the background check processes to incorporate that
  • There are probably plenty more we could add to this list.
I meant for your own personal security in todays environment.

I totally agree with you on security measures on our most vulnerable. No one should be able to walk into a school with a gun. Why in the **** was there an unlocked door? I work in a factory in small town Nebraska and can't get into the building without a badge.

Even the NRA has called for mandatory mental health reporting into the NICS by all States. That and red flag laws would likely walk through congress.
 
May 17, 2021
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Fewer guns. No semi automatic or automatic weapons sold. Gun buybacks. Heavy taxes on guns. All these have worked in every other developed country.

The last thing we need is an even more fascist, paranoid, uncivil, violent surveillance/police/security state.

guns everywhere make us all so less safe, so less free.
 

FlickShagwell

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And yet this happened just this week.

Per the experts in the video this happens 3% of the time. The other 97% of the time, cops stop the shooter, unarmed people stop the shooter, or good guys with guns kill other good guys with guns mistaking them for the bad guy, who keeps killing people.

The good guy thing is like expecting a last second Hail Mary game winning touchdown in every single football game.
 

Gimmered

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Per the experts in the video this happens 3% of the time. The other 97% of the time, cops stop the shooter, unarmed people stop the shooter, or good guys with guns kill other good guys with guns mistaking them for the bad guy, who keeps killing people.

The good guy thing is like expecting a last second Hail Mary game winning touchdown in every single football game.
Ah, I see what you did there, I've always considered cops to be good guys with a gun. My bad.
 

HawkinK.C.1

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Here's some inconvenient truth.... Lots of private gun owners are much more proficient than the Police. Many cops did not grow up shooting. I think you'd be shocked at how bad many of them are. I often end up at the shooting range with a cop next to me that's just terrible. Give me a country boy that's been shooting since he was a little boy every time. We have a lot of them in Iowa.
 
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FlickShagwell

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No a link showing that the Wayne LaPierres do not consider that the police are good guys with a gun.
That’s not what I said. Wayne Lapierre is pushing a narrative that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can be a good guy with a gun because his duty is to sell guns. He’s not saying we need more cops when he gives speeches. He’s saying we need more people packing heat in general, which doesn’t work.
 
May 17, 2021
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Here's some inconvenient truth.... Lots of private gun owners are much more proficient than the Police. Many cops did not grow up shooting. I think you'd be shocked at how bad many of them are. I often end up at the shooting range with a cop next to me that's just terrible. Give me a country boy that's been shooting since he was a little boy every time. We have a lot of them in Iowa.
Wow. Just wow.

that’s like hoorah warmongers touting the accuracy of “precision” weapons.

it’s not frigging accuracy. It’s WHO IS TARGETED.

Our “intelligence” is often WRONG!!!

our “smart bombs” blow up entire wedding parties of innocent people, kids and all. Bad policy. Capitalist imperialism. Terrible “intelligence”.

and your white ‘Merikan Bo n’ Luke Duke “good ol boys” being accurate just makes their dumb shoot ‘em up shots more deadly.

the last damn thing we need is overconfident trigger happy cowboys everywhere.

truly insane
 

Gimmered

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That’s not what I said. Wayne Lapierre is pushing a narrative that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can be a good guy with a gun because his duty is to sell guns. He’s not saying we need more cops when he gives speeches. He’s saying we need more people packing heat in general, which doesn’t work.
I totally understand what Wayne is saying. What I'm confused about is what is being said here. I'm being told that cops are not good guys with guns. I disagree with that statement. If you can show me a link where Wayne disagrees with me, I will concede my mistake.
 
May 17, 2021
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I totally understand what Wayne is saying. What I'm confused about is what is being said here. I'm being told that cops are not good guys with guns. I disagree with that statement. If you can show me a link where Wayne disagrees with me, I will concede my mistake.
No one is saying most all cops are bad guys. Geez.

“good guys” are simply regular people, armed. “Guys” being normal walking around folks.

ALL the data says that the more guns there are, the more powerful, the easier to be purchased, the more gun violence, and this data holds true across the developed world. And it’s obvious and common sense. Incontrovertible.
 
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Gimmered

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Per the experts in the video this happens 3% of the time. The other 97% of the time, cops stop the shooter, unarmed people stop the shooter, or good guys with guns kill other good guys with guns mistaking them for the bad guy, who keeps killing people.

The good guy thing is like expecting a last second Hail Mary game winning touchdown in every single football game.

No one is saying most all cops are bad guys. Geez.

“good guys” are simply regular people, armed. “Guys” being normal walking around folks.

ALL the data says that the more guns there are, the more powerful, the easier to be purchased, the more gun violence, and this data holds true across the developed world. And it’s obvious and common sense. Incontrovertible.
What they are saying is that Cops are not good guys with guns. This is misrepresenting what the NRA has always said. They have always included cops to be good guys with guns.

If I'm mistaken, please post a link.


FWIW, I believe that the NRA is in total agreement with you that civilians with guns are not stopping enough of these events.
 
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alaskanseminole

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Wow. Just wow.

that’s like hoorah warmongers touting the accuracy of “precision” weapons.

it’s not frigging accuracy. It’s WHO IS TARGETED.

Our “intelligence” is often WRONG!!!

our “smart bombs” blow up entire wedding parties of innocent people, kids and all. Bad policy. Capitalist imperialism. Terrible “intelligence”.

and your white ‘Merikan Bo n’ Luke Duke “good ol boys” being accurate just makes their dumb shoot ‘em up shots more deadly.

the last damn thing we need is overconfident trigger happy cowboys everywhere.

truly insane
Just because your take is the absolute opposite than his doesn't make your opinion any more accurate.
 

hawkifann

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I meant for your own personal security in todays environment.

I totally agree with you on security measures on our most vulnerable. No one should be able to walk into a school with a gun. Why in the **** was there an unlocked door? I work in a factory in small town Nebraska and can't get into the building without a badge.

Even the NRA has called for mandatory mental health reporting into the NICS by all States. That and red flag laws would likely walk through congress.
Oh, for my own personal security? It’s a mix. I don’t have a gun, didn’t grow up around them, only done limited shooting, so that’s not present. We lock our doors, have an alarm. When I’m out and about, I try to be aware of my surroundings, stay in lit areas, all the usual stuff. It’s very situational.