Larry Bird was a badass

[33hawkfan]

Well, since we're talking fantasy land, I wasn't going to address that point.

It would be interesting. I do think each team playing the version of ball from their own era would have an advantage....especially if the teams matched up under 90s grabbing and shoving rules.

You would have that issue in the Bulls-Warriors match up and then if its Warriors - '87 Lakers, you get Klay and his dad on the court at the same time about that same age.

It does make it hard with how dramatically the game has changed, you build teams for the eras you play in. The Bulls playing in today's game wouldn't need Longley, they would start Kukoc, they would get a shooter to fill Harper's role.

 

[Tom Paris]

The Warriors match up fine against the Lakers, Draymond on Kareem, Durant on Worthy, Iggy or Klay on Magic. But I don’t think mid 80s Kareem would even be able to stay on the floor against Golden St. They would have him in pick and rolls all day.

We’ve already been over the Bulls match up. They have three really solid defensive wings in Klay, Durant and Iggy to rotate against MJ and Pippen, plus you’ll have Draymond to help if he’s guarding Rodman who is a total non factor offensively. Post possessions aren’t the most efficient ways to score, if that’s the Bulls strategy it’s not gonna end well for them.

Your first sentence...Every Laker has an advantage there. Huge advantage. They could just post Magic as well. Remember what he did in the playoffs his rookie year, as a center, when Kareem was out? Probably not.

Again, you make it sound like ANY of those guys could just slow Michael down. He would do what he did.

 

[33hawkfan]

Your first sentence...Every Laker has an advantage there. Huge advantage. They could just post Magic as well. Remember what he did in the playoffs his rookie year, as a center, when Kareem was out? Probably not.

Again, you make it sound like ANY of those guys could just slow Michael down. He would do what he did.

How? Post ups in general are not a very efficient offense, if you want to post Magic against Iggy go ahead. Byron Scott can barely dribble, James Worthy didn't create a ton for himself, AC Green and Mychal Thompson aren't big time scorers. Kareem could get his skyhook off but he's a huge liability at the other end. Where are these massive advantages?

Also, the Bulls scored 86, 78 and 87 in the last three against the Sonics. They were barely doing enough offensively against a team that isn't as good defensively as the Warriors are. Not to mention the huge offensive advantage the '17 Warriors have over that Sonics team.

 

[Tom Paris]

How? Post ups in general are not a very efficient offense, if you want to post Magic against Iggy go ahead. Byron Scott can barely dribble, James Worthy didn't create a ton for himself, AC Green and Mychal Thompson aren't big time scorers. Kareem could get his skyhook off but he's a huge liability at the other end. Where are these massive advantages?

Also, the Bulls scored 86, 78 and 87 in the last three against the Sonics. They were barely doing enough offensively against a team that isn't as good defensively as the Warriors are. Not to mention the huge offensive advantage the '17 Warriors have over that Sonics team.

Your analysis of the 80's Lakers isn't overly close to factual. Scott couldn't dribble. lol. The Lakers would get any shot they wanted against GS. Anyway, I'm out.

 

[33hawkfan]

Your analysis of the 80's Lakers isn't overly close to factual. Scott couldn't dribble. lol. The Lakers would get any shot they wanted against GS. Anyway, I'm out.

Obviously Scott can dribble but he's not close to being able to handle well enough to be a lead ball handler. What else is wrong? Saying the Lakers have an advantage at every position is laughable.

 

[jasonrann]

Gassed Warriors team? lmao

Good to see you still have your reading and comprehension skills.

 

[Rudolph]

I am guessing this thread is yet another hoop thread comparing eras without allowing for consideration how, for example, Kareem in today's world would be different than the Kareem in his day. The training and skill development is incredibly different. Kareem had the athleticism to defend ball screens. Worthy's range would have been a step or two greater, at the very least he would have developed a reliable corner three. Pick any great player from the 80s and try to imagine them coming up in today's basketball world of specialized training and development.

It is so lazy, and stupid, really, to compare eras without this type of allowance.

Bird was, arguably, a better athlete than Luka Doncic. Watch Bird in the early- to mid-80s. This crap about him being "average" athleticism is bullshit. He was 6' 9" and played wing. There is more to athleticism than dunking. There is hand-eye coordination. There is agility and footwork. There is body control. Throw anticipation in there. Now consider Bird in today's world, with today's training and skill development, with today's attention to detail regarding diet and nutrition, sleep and recovery.

Today's game suits Bird more than the game of the 80s. Bird's skill and understanding of the game, his sense of space and the moving geometry of the game, pretty much every skill he possessed would likely fare better in today's game with its increased spacing.

Also, today's game is all about team defensive principles, about rotations and anticipation of rotations. Defending ball screens is essentially a two-man zone with a three-man zone behind it. Contract–expand–contract–expand. Bird was a great help defender.

 

[33hawkfan]

I am guessing this thread is yet another hoop thread comparing eras without allowing for consideration how, for example, Kareem in today's world would be different than the Kareem in his day. The training and skill development is incredibly different. Kareem had the athleticism to defend ball screens. Worthy's range would have been a step or two greater, at the very least he would have developed a reliable corner three. Pick any great player from the 80s and try to imagine them coming up in today's basketball world of specialized training and development.

It is so lazy, and stupid, really, to compare eras without this type of allowance.

Bird was, arguably, a better athlete than Luka Doncic. Watch Bird in the early- to mid-80s. This crap about him being "average" athleticism is bullshit. He was 6' 9" and played wing. There is more to athleticism than dunking. There is hand-eye coordination. There is agility and footwork. There is body control. Throw anticipation in there. Now consider Bird in today's world, with today's training and skill development, with today's attention to detail regarding diet and nutrition, sleep and recovery.

Today's game suits Bird more than the game of the 80s. Bird's skill and understanding of the game, his sense of space and the moving geometry of the game, pretty much every skill he possessed would likely fare better in today's game with its increased spacing.

Also, today's game is all about team defensive principles, about rotations and anticipation of rotations. Defending ball screens is essentially a two-man zone with a three-man zone behind it. Contract–expand–contract–expand. Bird was a great help defender.

Kareem was 37 in '87, you get old and slower in every era. If you're talking about 23 year old Kareem it's a whole different conversation.

 

[Rudolph]

Kareem was 37 in '87, you get old and slower in every era. If you're talking about 23 year old Kareem it's a whole different conversation.

Kareem at 37 would look like Kareem at 31 in today's world, what with the training, diet, rest and recovery, ƒucking load management for ƒuck sakes. Do you not get the point? Allowances need to be made when doing this era-comparison crap.

 

[Legend12]

Kareem at 37 would look like Kareem at 31 in today's world, what with the training, diet, rest and recovery, ƒucking load management for ƒuck sakes. Do you not get the point? Allowances need to be made when doing this era-comparison crap.

LOL

 

[Rudolph]

LOL

Bro if you came up with today's training you might have been able to start for your mid-80s high school team, assuming they were all stuck with mid-80s training while you enjoyed access to today's advancements. Imagine that, Legend, actual meaningful playing time in high school!

 

[Herky T Hawk]

Hot take, the Warriors have better pick and roll options than Stockton and Malone.

The Bulls can put out good defensive and good offensive lineups against Golden St, the problem is it's not the same lineup. Golden St's best lineup is great on both ends. With modern rules, I think that lineup you have really struggles to score. They have basically three non-threats on the offensive end, with how much teams can help, that makes it tough even with two all time greats out there. I mean those Bulls teams weren't lighting up the scoreboard in the late 90's Finals. They were scrapping by with terrific defense and just enough offense, against a team not nearly as athletic as the '17 Warriors.

Shawn Kemp(definitely) and GP(probably) in their prime, like they were in 96, are better athletes than anyone on GS's 2017 roster. Plus they were more balanced with 5 guys averaging double-digits in the playoffs with two over 20 in an era with lower scoring games. GS had 4 and 2 of each. Seattle was also top 10 in the league in points allowed that year. GS was in the middle group of the league in 2017, but were first in scoring so that didn't matter as much. The 96 Bulls were first in scoring and third in points allowed. That was a complete team on both ends of the court.

If you shut either of Curry or Durant down and kept the others at their averages, you have a good shot to beat GS. No team in 2017 had the talent to do that. The 96 Bulls did.

 

[Legend12]

Bro if you came up with today's training you might have been able to start for your mid-80s high school team, assuming they were all stuck with mid-80s training while you enjoyed access to today's advancements. Imagine that, Legend, actual meaningful playing time in high school!

Started varsity as a freshman, but thanks. (8th grade for baseball)

I just find it funny you try to tell people how they need to discuss and compare things.

Bro.

 

[Bro D]

Shawn Kemp(definitely) and GP(probably) in their prime, like they were in 96, are better athletes than anyone on GS's 2017 roster. Plus they were more balanced with 5 guys averaging double-digits in the playoffs with two over 20 in an era with lower scoring games. GS had 4 and 2 of each. Seattle was also top 10 in the league in points allowed that year. GS was in the middle group of the league in 2017, but were first in scoring so that didn't matter as much. The 96 Bulls were first in scoring and third in points allowed. That was a complete team on both ends of the court.

If you shut either of Curry or Durant down and kept the others at their averages, you have a good shot to beat GS. No team in 2017 had the talent to do that. The 96 Bulls did.

The biggest fantasy that is always argued by some people on here is that there is some great talent gap between the 90's and today. Nothing could be further from the truth and its asinine to use that as an argument for GS over Chicago or LeBron over MJ. Those Suns, Pacers, Blazers, Sonics teams would beat those Golden State teams, no doubt in my mind.

 

[Rudolph]

Started varsity as a freshman, but thanks. (8th grade for baseball)

I just find it funny you try to tell people how they need to discuss and compare things.

Bro.

Rural America, folks.

It is funny. I'm arrogant, but I'm not wrong. Otherwise players/teams from previous eras almost never stand a chance competing with the best of current-day players/teams. There simply has to be some sort of allowance, wouldn't you agree?

Take Kareem. Look at his free throw stroke. Look at his face-up jumper, despite his rarely using it. It's not that much of a stretch to assume that in today's world, he would have had his "total package" skill set developed similarly to the bigs of today. Karl Anthony Towns but a smoother athlete, for example. Embiid without the injury frequency. The damn Lopez twins are both shooting threes now. Robin, in limited time, averaged 1.5 attempts per outing, making 34%.

 

[Legend12]

Rural America, folks.

It is funny. I'm arrogant, but I'm not wrong. Otherwise players/teams from previous eras almost never stand a chance competing with the best of current-day players/teams. There simply has to be some sort of allowance, wouldn't you agree?

Not just rural America...we were terrible, too.

No, I don't agree. When I talk about the best laptop I've had, or the best shoes I've worn....I don't think about the 1985 Ralph Sampson Pumas and what they would be like with today's materials or manufacturing processes. They are what they are. There is no shame in something/someone being better today that what we had 20 years ago, things are supposed to get better.

 

[33hawkfan]

Shawn Kemp(definitely) and GP(probably) in their prime, like they were in 96, are better athletes than anyone on GS's 2017 roster. Plus they were more balanced with 5 guys averaging double-digits in the playoffs with two over 20 in an era with lower scoring games. GS had 4 and 2 of each. Seattle was also top 10 in the league in points allowed that year. GS was in the middle group of the league in 2017, but were first in scoring so that didn't matter as much. The 96 Bulls were first in scoring and third in points allowed. That was a complete team on both ends of the court.

If you shut either of Curry or Durant down and kept the others at their averages, you have a good shot to beat GS. No team in 2017 had the talent to do that. The 96 Bulls did.

Golden St was number two in defensive efficiency and far and away number one in offensive efficiency in 2017. Looking at only ppg is a very poor way to measure the quality of a teams defense.

 

[33hawkfan]

The biggest fantasy that is always argued by some people on here is that there is some great talent gap between the 90's and today. Nothing could be further from the truth and its asinine to use that as an argument for GS over Chicago or LeBron over MJ. Those Suns, Pacers, Blazers, Sonics teams would beat those Golden State teams, no doubt in my mind.

The 90s Pacers would beat 2017 Golden St lol, just stop.

 

[33hawkfan]

Kareem at 37 would look like Kareem at 31 in today's world, what with the training, diet, rest and recovery, ƒucking load management for ƒuck sakes. Do you not get the point? Allowances need to be made when doing this era-comparison crap.

Kareem at 31 still couldn’t stop that pick and roll combo.

 

[HawkRugged17]

And Bird was a creative passer ...

 

[HawkRugged17]

The 90s Pacers would beat 2017 Golden St lol, just stop.

The Dunking Dutchman.

 

[33hawkfan]

The Dunking Dutchman.

Him, ole Freddy Hoiberg and a washed Chris Mullin out there are gonna shut down Durant and Curry no doubt.

 

[Rudolph]

Not just rural America...we were terrible, too.

No, I don't agree. When I talk about the best laptop I've had, or the best shoes I've worn....I don't think about the 1985 Ralph Sampson Pumas and what they would be like with today's materials or manufacturing processes. They are what they are. There is no shame in something/someone being better today that what we had 20 years ago, things are supposed to get better.

I get that. I'm acknowledging the progress just as you are. What I'm saying is that if people are going to do this thing where they try to consider if, for example, Kareem could defend ball screens in today's game, then I only think it's fair to allow for Kareem to have been groomed in today's world, with today's training, skill development, nutrition, coaching, recovery, etc. As it is, there are very few NBA centers in today's game who can defend the ball screen well. This is why the ball screen is essentially defended by employing zone principles.

People watch old games and see a slower, more deliberate pace and draw assumptions on the raw athletic ability to, for example, defend out on the floor. Kareem was very athletic. I'm pretty sure if Kareem was a contemporary of today's NBA players, having been groomed in the same basketball culture/world as these guys, he would do just fine.

 

[HawkRugged17]

He seems so humble at the end ...

 

[runkpanole]

He seems so humble at the end ...

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[HawkRugged17]

 

[z_ape]

Not just rural America...we were terrible, too.

No, I don't agree. When I talk about the best laptop I've had, or the best shoes I've worn....I don't think about the 1985 Ralph Sampson Pumas and what they would be like with today's materials or manufacturing processes. They are what they are. There is no shame in something/someone being better today that what we had 20 years ago, things are supposed to get better.

Raw human ability -- athletic, mental, whatever -- is very unlikely to have changed significantly in a few decades. (hell, a few hundred years)

 

[torbee]

like Bird, swing and a miss

Isiah Thomas is the pussiest bitch to ever play in the NBA. He’s a walking piece of shit.

 

[ANYCHawk]

Isiah Thomas is the pussiest bitch to ever play in the NBA. He’s a walking piece of shit.