Leistikow & Dochterman discuss QB Development at IOWA. Of Last 15 High School QBs Iowa has landed, 9 have Transferred Out. Deacon: 27-70 (39%)

[Franisdaman]

Those guys both sound like I think a vast majority of us feel - Just lost. Absolutely no understanding of Iowa's philosophy with QB's and how they can have so many misses and have "the guy" be just so terrible year after year now. Coaches hype up Labas like he's the next Roger Staubach, but now with 3 years in the program is nowhere close to a guy who showed up a few months ago and has proven to be garbage to this point? And the coaching staff acts like there's really nothing wrong. Just plain bewildering.

Labas has been in the program 3 seasons. Hill has been in the program for maybe 7 or 8 months?

Labas was part of spring ball. He's been healthy for the past 7 weeks. He knows the offense, and surely knows it a lot better than Hill.

So, if Labas is really worse then Hill, then it just tells you how poor the coaching has been. Hell, KF even brought in the "gift from heaven" to help and it clearly has not helped this offense and these quarterbacks.

 

[MeetTheFerentzes]

Count Labas as another that will transfer. Absolutely no possibility to get a chance.

I heard KF say that there's no such thing as a QB coming in to play mid-season and sparking an offense. Urban legend.

JFC, even when it happened before his very eyes in 2014 he still didn't acknowledge it.

If Hill is awful again against MN and Labas doesn't even get a single series against NW after the bye week, then Labas shouldn't even return to campus. Might as well just enter the portal and take the shorter drive home to Ohio.

 

[Franisdaman]

We are 129/130 on 3rd down conversions.

A whopping 26%.

And when we play a good team like Penn State? How's 11% grab ya?

......................Penn State.....IOWA
Time possession....45:27......14:33
Yds Offense...............397...........76
1st Downs....................28.............4
3rd Down.................9-20..........1-9 (11%)
Lost Fumbles...............0..............4

 

[BioHawk]

Most of those recruits are transferring because the anointed starter has been such a smashing success over and over again.

Not to be contrarian, but have any of them gone some place else and done anything significant? If they have I haven't heard about it.

I think the bigger issue isn't that they are transferring out, it's that the QB's Iowa can get aren't really Division 1 QB's in the first place.
Well, with the notable exception of Ruddock, but that was a different situation where he was replaced by an even better QB.

 

[Hawktagonapus]

Not to be contrarian, but have any of them gone some place else and done anything significant? If they have I haven't heard about it.

I think the bigger issue isn't that they are transferring out, it's that the QB's Iowa can get aren't really Division 1 QB's in the first place.
Well, with the notable exception of Ruddock, but that was a different situation where he was replaced by an even better QB.

Shimonek, who was also behind Beathard, had a pretty good senior year for Texas Tech.

 

[Max_Rebo]

A few more thoughts on this conversation:

• As noted in the podcast, almost all of our QB recruits are from far-off locales. Texas. Florida. California. It’s not like these are local kids who are flopping. We are going out and hand-picking these players specifically to come here (and mostly fail).
• It’s interesting that most years, the QBs we sign are among our earliest commits. It makes me wonder … are we committing to players too soon? Beneventi, who we thankfully cut loose, is perhaps the most egregious of this issue. He lost his job a starter during his senior year. How does Iowa commit to a QB recruit who can’t even keep his starting job in high school?
• We have made a practice of only signing one QB per class. This gives us less margin of error if the guy doesn’t work out. In the podcast, Dochterman opined that teams generally only “hit” on 1 out of every 3 QB recruits they sign. By giving themselves only one QB per year, Iowa naturally has had fewer opportunities for a QB to “hit.” Probably a big reason we have an empty stable.

 

[MikeyHawk]

Not to be contrarian, but have any of them gone some place else and done anything significant? If they have I haven't heard about it.

I think the bigger issue isn't that they are transferring out, it's that the QB's Iowa can get aren't really Division 1 QB's in the first place.
Well, with the notable exception of Ruddock, but that was a different situation where he was replaced by an even better QB.

Yep, just very poor at developing and identifying QB's.
Probably better off just recruiting from the MAC, Sun Belt, or C USA

 

[hawkjt]

Let's look at the last 10 years of qbing:
2014- Ruddock/Beathard - bowl game
2015-2016- Beathard- 20 wins
2017-2019- Stanley- 67td passes(2nd all time) 3 bowl wins
2020- Petras-6-2 record in covid year
2021-22- petras/Padilla - 18 wins bowl win
2023- Cade/Hill- 6-1 top 24 rank.

How many teams in top 25 are flourishing with their senior starting QB out for the season?

Our QB recruiting has been spotty but Beathard is probably starting in the NFL game this weekend and Ruddock/Stanley had cup of coffee in the league.
Not the disaster some imply.
I checked top 25- only #14 Utah is operating with a backup QB, who has played a lot of games.
Utah is a very similar program as Iowa with great defense and long time head coach.
The other 23 teams are almost all led by star qbs.
If KF can keep this going to a West title, probably his best coaching job.

 

[onionman1]

6-1.

Cute, but the sad, brutal realities at QB over the years have nothing to do with this years' 6-1 record.

 

[BioHawk]

Let's look at the last 10 years of qbing:
2014- Ruddock/Beathard - bowl game
2015-2016- Beathard- 20 wins
2017-2019- Stanley- 67td passes(2nd all time) 3 bowl wins
2020- Petras-6-2 record in covid year
2021-22- petras/Padilla - 18 wins bowl win
2023- Cade/Hill- 6-1 top 24 rank.

How many teams in top 25 are flourishing with their senior starting QB out for the season?

Our QB recruiting has been spotty but Beathard is probably starting in the NFL game this weekend and Ruddock/Stanley had cup of coffee in the league.
Not the disaster some imply.

I agree with you here and it's a big reason why the offense was more productive during those seasons. However, they've had a string of wiffs on QB's the last few seasons and it is very problematic.

 

[MeetTheFerentzes]

Beathard is probably starting in the NFL game this weekend

You predict he’s getting traded in the next 2 days?

 

[hawkjt]

You predict he’s getting traded in the next 2 days?

Heard Lawrence is questionable for Sunday and Beathard is starting.

 

[MeetTheFerentzes]

Heard Lawrence is questionable for Sunday and Beathard is starting.

You don’t say? Sounds like you’re really on top of things.

 

[hawkjt]

You don’t say? Sounds like you’re really on top of things.

Ooops...my bad.

 

[MeetTheFerentzes]

Ooops...my bad.

Sorry to bait you into that. Just having some fun. Peace.

 

[Bearhawk0505]

Shimonek, who was also behind Beathard, had a pretty good senior year for Texas Tech.

Greg Davis actually built a good QB room. Rudock, Beathard, Shimonek, and a Juco QB I am drawing a blank on(Sokul maybe was name)whom transferred and did well.

 

[bdg8]

Iowa should have their pick of the immobile qb recruits since they are one of the only remaining programs who seem to covet that quality.

No doubt. Shouldn’t John Navarre have a kid about college age by now

 

[Max_Rebo]

I started wondering who the lead recruiters have been for each of our QBs, and the list below is what I found. (Not sure how accurate the Rivals database is on this, but it’s still interesting.) I went all the way back to 2002, which is the earliest year Rivals has commitment lists. I tried to include all the kids who were listed as QBs, as well as a few listed as “ATH” who I know stayed at QB at least at first.

One thing I noticed was that it was around the GDGD era when Iowa started the practice of having the QB Coach go out and “find his guy.” Before that, it looks like it was the geographical territory that influenced the designation of the lead recruiter. This new strategy includes a pretty dismal run of QBs recruited by KOK that has led to the empty stable we’ve had the last couple of years. (But KOK’s earlier recruits were much more successful.)

Full list of QB recruits listed by their lead recruiter (per Rivals) here:

Brian Ferentz
James Resar
Marco Lainez
Jack Beneventi

Ken O’Keefe
Carson May
Joe Labas
Deuce Hogan
Alex Padilla
Spencer Petras
Cody Sokol
CJ Beathard
Arvell Nelson
Rick Stanzi
Jason Manson

Greg Davis
Nic Shimonek
Peyton Mansell

Reese Morgan
Ryan Boyle
Drew Cook
AJ Derby
James Vandenberg

Seth Wallace
Nate Stanley

Phil Parker
Tyler Wiegers
Micah Hyde (yes, Rivals has him as a QB!)

Rick Kaczenski
Jake Rudock

Lester Erb
John Wienke
Jake Christensen

Eric Johnson
Marvin McNutt

Carl Jackson
Drew Tate

Ron Aiken
Eric McCollom

None Listed
Cy Phillips
Nathan Chandler
Clinton Solomon

 

[ItsAllBallBearingsNowadays]

Moxie is probably viewed as “sexy.”

We don’t want that in a QB1. Apparently he was recruited to be a career back-up.

You’re the quarterback now Deacon.

 

[LIV4GOD]

I started wondering who the lead recruiters have been for each of our QBs, and the list below is what I found. (Not sure how accurate the Rivals database is on this, but it’s still interesting.) I went all the way back to 2002, which is the earliest year Rivals has commitment lists. I tried to include all the kids who were listed as QBs, as well as a few listed as “ATH” who I know stayed at QB at least at first.

One thing I noticed was that it was around the GDGD era when Iowa started the practice of having the QB Coach go out and “find his guy.” Before that, it looks like it was the geographical territory that influenced the designation of the lead recruiter. This new strategy includes a pretty dismal run of QBs recruited by KOK that has led to the empty stable we’ve had the last couple of years. (But KOK’s earlier recruits were much more successful.)

Full list of QB recruits listed by their lead recruiter (per Rivals) here:

Brian Ferentz
James Resar
Marco Lainez
Jack Beneventi

Ken O’Keefe
Carson May
Joe Labas
Deuce Hogan
Alex Padilla
Spencer Petras
Cody Sokol
CJ Beathard
Arvell Nelson
Rick Stanzi
Jason Manson

Greg Davis
Nic Shimonek
Peyton Mansell

Reese Morgan
Ryan Boyle
Drew Cook
AJ Derby
James Vandenberg

Seth Wallace
Nate Stanley

Phil Parker
Tyler Wiegers
Micah Hyde (yes, Rivals has him as a QB!)

Rick Kaczenski
Jake Rudock

Lester Erb
John Wienke
Jake Christensen

Eric Johnson
Marvin McNutt

Carl Jackson
Drew Tate

Ron Aiken
Eric McCollom

None Listed
Cy Phillips
Nathan Chandler
Clinton Solomon

Who brought in Brad Banks?

 

[NI hawk]

Labas might be the 10th to transfer out.

I miss Nate Stanley, the last good QB Iowa has had.

The last 15 high school QBs Iowa has landed:
2024: James Resar, Jacksonville, FL
2023: Marco Lainez, Princeton, NJ
2022: Carson May, Jones, OK
2021: Joe Labas, Broadview Heights, OH
2020: Deuce Hogan, Grapevine, TX
2019: Alex Padilla, Greenwood Village, CO
2018: Spencer Petras, San Rafael, CA
2017: Peyton Mansell, Belton, TX
2016: Nate Stanley, Menomonie, WI
2015: Ryan Boyle, West Des Moines
2015: Drew Cook, Iowa City
2014: Tyler Wiegers, Detroit, MI
2013: Nic Shimonek, Corsicana, TX
2012: C.J. Beathard, Franklin, TN
2011: Jake Rudock, Fort Lauderdale, FL

View embedded media

Shimonek, Rudock, and Beathard pretty impressive. Add JC transfer Cody Sokol and that was a pretty solid group. All would be playing now.

 

[Hawk68]

He got benched his senior year of high school. We got some great qb whisperers in BF and KF. You know it’s kinda bad when the HC says he doesn’t really know much about qb’s in his post game interview on the field. Which makes sense why he named BarF the OC/QB coach.

He said, "He never was a QB."

 

[NI hawk]

Shimonek, who was also behind Beathard, had a pretty good senior year for Texas Tech.

Very good!!

 

[shanksit44]

Phil sometimes shows his displeasure.

Perfect timing and angle on the pic. Of course, this probable takes place multiple times a game, so the opportunity is always there.

 

[scotthawk1964]

I can't say what the total problem has been since 2016, but I can say since Stanley, NO Iowa QB has been good. Stanley's QB coach was KOK I believe, but since Brian has been the QB coach, they've stunk. Hard to figure, a guy who never played QB trying to coach QB's. I guess he played center, so theoretically he handled the ball as much as the QB, so did that qualify him to coach them? Well, I will just let Brian's results speak for themselves. It also does not help when your starting QB is not good, and yet no other QB on the team gets a chance unless the starter gets hurt, It kind of sends a signal to non starters that they will get no shot at Iowa. Not to mention insulting your QB's like Kirk did with Hogan.

 

[Dr. Spaceman]

I can't say what the total problem has been since 2016, but I can say since Stanley, NO Iowa QB has been good. Stanley's QB coach was KOK I believe, but since Brian has been the QB coach, they've stunk. Hard to figure, a guy who never played QB trying to coach QB's. I guess he played center, so theoretically he handled the ball as much as the QB, so did that qualify him to coach them? Well, I will just let Brian's results speak for themselves. It also does not help when your starting QB is not good, and yet no other QB on the team gets a chance unless the starter gets hurt, It kind of sends a signal to non starters that they will get no shot at Iowa. Not to mention insulting your QB's like Kirk did with Hogan.

Too bad Kirk isn’t as good at developing QBs as he is at insulting them.

 

[doughuddl2]

Perfect timing and angle on the pic. Of course, this probable takes place multiple times a game, so the opportunity is always there.

Photo shopped

 

[ICWestfan]

Those guys both sound like I think a vast majority of us feel - Just lost. Absolutely no understanding of Iowa's philosophy with QB's and how they can have so many misses and have "the guy" be just so terrible year after year now. Coaches hype up Labas like he's the next Roger Staubach, but now with 3 years in the program is nowhere close to a guy who showed up a few months ago and has proven to be garbage to this point? And the coaching staff acts like there's really nothing wrong. Just plain bewildering.

It's another "F YOU" from BF. We had to go out and recruit a QB from the portal so by God we're going to play him.

 

[BHoppy]

Who brought in Brad Banks?

What I remember, they were looking at another JUCO player at the time and saw Banks play on the same team or opposing team. Kind of fell in their lap. They were not recruiting him at the time. That led to CJ Jones, Banks cousin, joining the Hawks.

Here is an article
Banks found his way to Iowa two years ago almost by accident. Hawkeyes defensive line coach Ron Aiken was scouting another player at Hinds (Miss.) Community College when he found out about Banks.

"Their coach told Ron he had a kid that's being overlooked," Ferentz said. "Ron brought the tape back, and Brad was evaluated as the top quarterback who wanted to come here. We fell in love with what we saw."

https://www.gainesville.com/story/news/2002/12/10/iowas-banks-was-near-perfect/31621682007/

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Obviously, recruiting a QB is difficult (but it shouldn't be this hard). Lightly recruited QB's often do better than heavily recruited ones. There is an intangible aspect to QB play that goes beyond physical stats.

For example - Chuck Long

Still, Long was not heavily recruited out of high school, as Long averaged only five to six pass attempts per game. As a result, he did not receive his first recruiting call until Thanksgiving of his senior year. Just three schools looked into offering him a scholarship: Northern Illinois, Northwestern, and Iowa. Long eventually accepted a scholarship to play at Iowa for future Hall of Fame coach Hayden Fry.

That's a really crappy list of offers, as NW was awful in the early 80's.

Hayden saw something - or maybe it was Bill Snyder. Maybe they just needed to fill the roster and got lucky. IDK. And the guy ends up great.

KF and the staff do a pretty good job evaluating guys at the other positions, but seem lost finding QB talent.

 

[HawkLogic]

A few more thoughts on this conversation:

• As noted in the podcast, almost all of our QB recruits are from far-off locales. Texas. Florida. California. It’s not like these are local kids who are flopping. We are going out and hand-picking these players specifically to come here (and mostly fail).
• It’s interesting that most years, the QBs we sign are among our earliest commits. It makes me wonder … are we committing to players too soon? Beneventi, who we thankfully cut loose, is perhaps the most egregious of this issue. He lost his job a starter during his senior year. How does Iowa commit to a QB recruit who can’t even keep his starting job in high school?
• We have made a practice of only signing one QB per class. This gives us less margin of error if the guy doesn’t work out. In the podcast, Dochterman opined that teams generally only “hit” on 1 out of every 3 QB recruits they sign. By giving themselves only one QB per year, Iowa naturally has had fewer opportunities for a QB to “hit.” Probably a big reason we have an empty stable.

James Vandenberg was a local product that flopped. Boyle was a local product that flopped. Iowa doesn't produce a lot of NCAA Div1 QBs and hasn't taken a lot of Iowa kids. The best QB out of Iowa went to TCU.

Cooper very well might have been a quality Div1 QB in the right program/with the right coordinator.

Brian Ferentz's career as offensive coordinator has been killed by the product he and KF put out the past 3 years. I don't think KF is capable of fixing the offense and the system is unrecruitable to quality QBs or receviers.

 

[HawkLogic]

Obviously, recruiting a QB is difficult (but it shouldn't be this hard). Lightly recruited QB's often do better than heavily recruited ones. There is an intangible aspect to QB play that goes beyond physical stats.

For example - Chuck Long

Still, Long was not heavily recruited out of high school, as Long averaged only five to six pass attempts per game. As a result, he did not receive his first recruiting call until Thanksgiving of his senior year. Just three schools looked into offering him a scholarship: Northern Illinois, Northwestern, and Iowa. Long eventually accepted a scholarship to play at Iowa for future Hall of Fame coach Hayden Fry.

That's a really crappy list of offers, as NW was awful in the early 80's.

Hayden saw something - or maybe it was Bill Snyder. Maybe they just needed to fill the roster and got lucky. IDK. And the guy ends up great.

KF and the staff do a pretty good job evaluating guys at the other positions, but seem lost finding QB talent.

Phil Parker has done a good job of identifying defensive talent.

BF/KF being the leaders of offense have done poor job of identifying/recruiting offensive talent. The OL has been poor, WR poor, and QB poor. RB has been okay and TE outstanding.

When Brian first got OC job, he did get some talent like IKM, Goodson and his early offenses were okay with Stanley at QB and wirfs/Alaric Jackson at OT, and high quality TE talent and decent receievers in IKM and the kid out of Mississippi.

The offense has dropped off precipitously the last 3 years which means offense recruiting has been bad fro 5 years now.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Phil Parker has done a good job of identifying defensive talent.

BF/KF being the leaders of offense have done poor job of identifying/recruiting offensive talent. The OL has been poor, WR poor, and QB poor. RB has been okay and TE outstanding.

When Brian first got OC job, he did get some talent like IKM, Goodson and his early offenses were okay with Stanley at QB and wirfs/Alaric Jackson at OT, and high quality TE talent and decent receievers in IKM and the kid out of Mississippi.

The offense has dropped off precipitously the last 3 years which means offense recruiting has been bad fro 5 years now.

I think RB recruiting has been very good, but they can't run through walls. In fact, I think the "talent" on offense is there, even at WR - just not a QB where everything starts. And the offensive coaching, strategy and development has been miserable.

Without a QB and good coaching, the offense isn't going anywhere.

 

[RollingBallofButcherKnives]

Phil Parker has done a good job of identifying defensive talent.

BF/KF being the leaders of offense have done poor job of identifying/recruiting offensive talent. The OL has been poor, WR poor, and QB poor. RB has been okay and TE outstanding.

When Brian first got OC job, he did get some talent like IKM, Goodson and his early offenses were okay with Stanley at QB and wirfs/Alaric Jackson at OT, and high quality TE talent and decent receievers in IKM and the kid out of Mississippi.

The offense has dropped off precipitously the last 3 years which means offense recruiting has been bad fro 5 years now.

I think you mean ISM(in the NFL) as opposed to IKM(never really got rolling at Iowa and was passed up on the depth chart and battled injuries)?

 

[Franisdaman]

Yep, just very poor at developing and identifying QB's.
Probably better off just recruiting from the MAC, Sun Belt, or C USA

Deacon's stats so far:

27-70 (39%)
311 yards
4.4 yds/attempt
2 TDs
2 INTS

This is the best we have?

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Assuming nothing changes with the staff, which is an unfortunate but probably likely accurate assumption, do they look to the portal again to try to find a backup who could actually come in and play qb if needed? Or do they continue to stand pat with the offense and personnel they have including bringing back a now multiple times significantly injured and injury prone player with further limited mobility? At any other program that would be looked at as being a bad move and poor planning. At Iowa it would be BAU.

 

[shanksit44]

Photo shopped
[/QUOTE

Kind of guessed it was but I’d bet Phil has thought about it countless times.

 

[shanksit44]

Deacon's stats so far:

27-70 (39%)
311 yards
4.4 yds/attempt
2 TDs
2 INTS

This is the best we have?

yes

 

[shanksit44]

Phil Parker has done a good job of identifying defensive talent.

BF/KF being the leaders of offense have done poor job of identifying/recruiting offensive talent. The OL has been poor, WR poor, and QB poor. RB has been okay and TE outstanding.

When Brian first got OC job, he did get some talent like IKM, Goodson and his early offenses were okay with Stanley at QB and wirfs/Alaric Jackson at OT, and high quality TE talent and decent receievers in IKM and the kid out of Mississippi.

The offense has dropped off precipitously the last 3 years which means offense recruiting has been bad fro 5 years now.

Are 5 syllable words allowed here?

 

[Bigg2]

Phil sometimes shows his displeasure.

Has the story behind this picture ever been told?