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Lions safety (his hit ended Hockenson's season) takes out another Tight End with a hit to the knees

Franisdaman

Franisdaman

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On Christmas Eve, TJ's season ended with a torn ACL and MCL in his right knee as a result of the Lions' Kerby Joseph's hit to his knees.

Last night Kerby Joseph injured the Rams' tight end, Tyler Higbee, with the same type of hit.

At the end of this story, 3 beat writers weigh in.

Lions' safety (Kerby Joseph) who injured Vikings' TJ Hockenson hits Rams' Tyler Higbee in knee​

Joseph is being criticized for low hits on opposing tight ends.

Kerby Joseph is making a name for himself as a player known for hitting receivers at the knees.

The Detroit Lions safety's hit on T.J. Hockenson on Christmas Eve ended the star Vikings tight end's season as he suffered a torn ACL and MCL in his right knee. Joseph was not called for a penalty and wasn't fined by the league after the fact.

Joseph was at it again Sunday night when he buried his body into the right knee of Tyler Higbee, forcing the Rams tight end's knee to awkwardly bend and send him limping to the sideline.




Here's a replay of Joseph's Dec. 24 hit on Hockenson.





"Kerby Joseph did the same thing to T.J. Hockenson. That’s absolutely atrocious," wrote Vikings beat writer Alec Lewis, of The Athletic.

"Kerby Joseph just got Tyler Higbee the same way he got T.J. Hockenson. Hopefully a better prognosis for Higbee," posted ESPN's Kevin Seifert on X.

The Star Tribune's Vikings beat writer Andrew Krammer wrote on X: "So Kerby Joseph just targets knees?"

 
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Franisdaman said:

Lions' safety who injured Vikings' Hockenson hits Rams' Higbee in knee​

Joseph is being criticized for low hits on opposing tight ends.

Kerby Joseph is making a name for himself as a player known for hitting receivers at the knees.

The Detroit Lions safety's hit on T.J. Hockenson on Christmas Eve ended the star Vikings tight end's season as he suffered a torn ACL and MCL in his right knee. Joseph was not called for a penalty and wasn't fined by the league after the fact.

Joseph was at it again Sunday night when he buried his body into the right knee of Tyler Higbee, forcing the Rams tight end's knee to awkwardly bend and send him limping to the sideline.

View embedded media



Here's a replay of Joseph's Dec. 24 hit on Hockenson.


View embedded media



"Kerby Joseph did the same thing to T.J. Hockenson. That’s absolutely atrocious," wrote Vikings beat writer Alec Lewis, of The Athletic.

"Kerby Joseph just got Tyler Higbee the same way he got T.J. Hockenson. Hopefully a better prognosis for Higbee," posted ESPN's Kevin Seifert on X.

The Star Tribune's Vikings beat writer Andrew Krammer wrote on X: "So Kerby Joseph just targets knees?"

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The League needs to have a 'sit down' with Mr. Joseph, his position coach, Lions DC and Dan Campbell.
 
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It’s a dirty hit. There’s no intention to wrap up and tackle. It’s a dive bomb at the knee to take them out. Sucks for Hockenson and Higbee. It’s not against the rules, but if the goal is to keep the best players on the field, they’ll need to fix it. You can’t cut a disengaged defender. Can’t hit a qb at the knee. Accidents happen and you can’t eliminate all contact from the game, but those weren’t accidents and the defender had other options to make the play.
 
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Hawkeyes4Life247 said:
It’s a dirty hit. There’s no intention to wrap up and tackle. It’s a dive bomb at the knee to take them out. Sucks for Hockenson and Higbee. It’s not against the rules, but if the goal is to keep the best players on the field, they’ll need to fix it. You can’t cut a disengaged defender. Can’t hit a qb at the knee. Accidents happen and you can’t eliminate all contact from the game, but those weren’t accidents and the defender had other options to make the play.
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Agree...it's plain dirty. Wonder what Dan C thinks about this?
 
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It stinks though because the penalty risk of going high incentives these type of hits. Wonder if the players union will get to a point where they are able to shelf helmet to helmet penalties to avoid risk of career ending hits like this. Head injuries suck but most players would rather have a concussion than this.
 
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sm_hawkeye said:
It stinks though because the penalty risk of going high incentives these type of hits. Wonder if the players union will get to a point where they are able to shelf helmet to helmet penalties to avoid risk of career ending hits like this. Head injuries suck but most players would rather have a concussion than this.
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can you just make the rule that all hits/tackles have to be above the knee and below the shoulder?

that may be too broad, but it's a starter for a discussion for the NFL Rules Committee.

Meanwhile, I wonder how long TJ will be out with that torn ACL and MCL in the right knee
 
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INXS83 said:
The League needs to have a 'sit down' with Mr. Joseph, his position coach, Lions DC and Dan Campbell.
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In the NHL the players would have taken care of a dirt bag like this safey in the very same game. Hockey is different as it is free flowing and many players on the field wont get close to a safety. But sometimes it is good to call a running play to get that guy in a pile and as the old ref said "give him the business", still one of the great ref lines ever.

Claude Lemieux of the Colo Avalanche, years ago, put a severe dirty hit on an opposing player in the playoffs. The hit was right near the end of the game so he wasnt even on the ice anymore.

But the teams met two days later and Claude, who wasnt a big guy but a fast great skater, knew what he had coming. He was on the ice for the opening faceoff and as several opponents moved closer to him he just turtled on the ice and they started pummeling him. Did about everything but spear him with a stick. Got to hurt having grown men blast their forearms repeatedly across your neck and the back of your head.

Of course I loved Claude when he was on my teams but hated him at Colo.
 
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Lemieux's dirty playing style:

Criticism[edit]​

Lemieux was also notorious for being among the league's most hated and dirtiest players; in fact, a 2009 TSN special entitled "The Top 10 Most Hated NHL Players of All Time" ranked him second, behind only Sean Avery. While playing for Montreal, during a playoff game against the Calgary Flames, Lemieux bit Calgary's Jim Peplinski on the finger during a scuffle, prompting the Calgary winger to say, "I didn't know they allowed cannibalism in the NHL."

Hit on Kris Draper[edit]​

Lemieux's reputation for playing dirty was solidified in a 1996 incident with the Avalanche when Lemieux checked Kris Draper of the Detroit Red Wings into the boards from behind during Game 6 of the Western Conference Finals. Draper suffered a concussion, broken jaw, broken nose, and broken cheekbone, all of which led to Draper having reconstructive surgery on his face and his jaw wired shut for several weeks. This incident sparked a bitter rivalry between the two teams. Unhappy with his actions, the NHL suspended him two games, which caused outcry from some fans who felt he deserved a harsher penalty. Red Wings player Dino Ciccarelli said after the series, "I can't believe I shook this guy's friggin' hand after the game. That pisses me right off."

Tensions between the two teams would continue to rise, reaching a breaking point the next season. During a fight, the infamous Red Wings–Avalanche brawl, Wings forward Darren McCarty engaged Lemieux shortly after a fight started by Peter Forsberg with Igor Larionov had stopped play. McCarty threw one punch to Lemieux, who “turtled” on the ice, and was badly beaten before the officials could remove McCarty from him. McCarty was assessed a double minor for roughing. Several fights erupted around the two as both teams, including the goalies, fought. In the next regular season game between the teams, Lemieux switched sides on the opening face off to line up across from McCarty, resulting in another fight at puck drop.
 
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HawkeyeGenius said:
I don't like it, but it's not illegal. This is the result of making several other hits illegal. I agree the NFL needs to fix it.
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Agreed, I played defense my entire career and it is frustrating seeing what defenders have to deal with.
Over 50% of "TARGETING" is a result of the offensive player turning his head, seeing the defender, and dropping down to brace for the hit, which then creates the helmet to helmet contact.
There needs to be protection for players but you just can't take away every violent part of a violent game, a game in which these players know is violent and every one may be their last.
We don't tell boxers to stop using uppercuts because they look the worst in slow motion. Sorry rant over.
 
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Other Teams just need to target Lions skill Players and fix the issue old school. The nobody safety will get the message fast enough or get a couple OL out on Him with 1 engaged and the 2nd OL takes out His knee , Self policing is the way and always has been .
 
uihawk82 said:
In the NHL the players would have taken care of a dirt bag like this safey in the very same game. Hockey is different as it is free flowing and many players on the field wont get close to a safety. But sometimes it is good to call a running play to get that guy in a pile and as the old ref said "give him the business", still one of the great ref lines ever.

Claude Lemieux of the Colo Avalanche, years ago, put a severe dirty hit on an opposing player in the playoffs. The hit was right near the end of the game so he wasnt even on the ice anymore.

But the teams met two days later and Claude, who wasnt a big guy but a fast great skater, knew what he had coming. He was on the ice for the opening faceoff and as several opponents moved closer to him he just turtled on the ice and they started pummeling him. Did about everything but spear him with a stick. Got to hurt having grown men blast their forearms repeatedly across your neck and the back of your head.

Of course I loved Claude when he was on my teams but hated him at Colo.
Click to expand...
The Redwings waited over a year for payback on his hit on Draper. McCarty ragdolled him.
 
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i dunno - this is a slippery slope. 200 lb defensive backs having to tackle 250 lb TEs and RBs … who have a full head of steam… is a dangerous rule imo.

We Hawk fans have benefited enormously by having defensive backs coming up in run support like missiles that often tackle low.

If anything it needs to be a “defenseless receiver” rule. That’s the only way to officiate it imo, and even that is going to be tough.

But I loved a quote from Tom Brady that as a QB, you have to be aware when you’re putting guys in that situation. He said he would avoid the middle of the field when facing guys like Ray Lewis to save his receivers. It’s part of the game.

It sucks, but you can reconstruct a knee. You can’t reconstruct a brain.
 
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ButtersHawk said:
Agreed, I played defense my entire career and it is frustrating seeing what defenders have to deal with.
Over 50% of "TARGETING" is a result of the offensive player turning his head, seeing the defender, and dropping down to brace for the hit, which then creates the helmet to helmet contact.
There needs to be protection for players but you just can't take away every violent part of a violent game, a game in which these players know is violent and every one may be their last.
We don't tell boxers to stop using uppercuts because they look the worst in slow motion. Sorry rant over.
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Yeah, how are you supposed to tackle a player that weighs more than 50 lbs than you do? The best you can do is change the rule as Fran described. As of now,dems da breaks.
 
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Heathen Raider said:
Other Teams just need to target Lions skill Players and fix the issue old school. The nobody safety will get the message fast enough or get a couple OL out on Him with 1 engaged and the 2nd OL takes out His knee , Self policing is the way and always has been .
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Haha, Kerby Joseph was all-Big Ten in 2021. He has a nice NFL stat line as well. I wouldn't call him a nobody.
 
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This is an easy fix, IMO. No launching at a player to make a tackle. If you leave your feet then make contact with a player, 15 yard unsportsman like penalty.
 
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Franisdaman said:
can you just make the rule that all hits/tackles have to be above the knee and below the shoulder?

that may be too broad, but it's a starter for a discussion for the NFL Rules Committee.

Meanwhile, I wonder how long TJ will be out with that torn ACL and MCL in the right knee
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I mean you could but having rules for both of these at the high speed some collisions are gets things more messy than they already are. Especially on routes where qb is leading ball low or high. After the ball is caught and they’re making a move sure maybe but seemed this didn’t happen as much until helmet to helmet became a rule.
 
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sm_hawkeye said:
I mean you could but having rules for both of these at the high speed some collisions are gets things more messy than they already are. Especially on routes where qb is leading ball low or high. After the ball is caught and they’re making a move sure maybe but seemed this didn’t happen as much until helmet to helmet became a rule.
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Not to mention lets say on a run play a RB bounces outside.
If you are a defender working inside-out lots of times your best option is to chase and dive/wrap up ankles.
Basically what happened is Goodell and the NFL got caught with their pants down and weiners in hand over concussions and are now over-policing and over protecting.
 
I have the fix
-Replace the ball with a balloon
-Instead of tackling players hug and compliment each other
-replace helmets and pads with tin foil hats and bras
-if someone wants to score they can they just have to be real nice about it.
 
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I thought it was interesting that Collinsworth said that WRs he's talked to would rather take a hit to the helmet than one of those hits to the knees. One is an accumulation over time, the other is immediate. In the moment, when their career is threatened, I can see why many would say that the knee hit is worse.
 
Franisdaman said:
during the broadcast, the color commentator said that if you took a poll of receivers and tight ends, they'd rather take a hit above the shoulders than a hit at the knees

the NFL somehow has to fix this
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They implemented the "Brady Rule" about tackling QB's low after the GOAT got smoked. Why doesn't this apply for TE's and receivers?
 
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Saying a defensive player can’t go low to make a tackle is like telling them they have to stand in front of a Mack truck and pull the guy down as he’s running him over. A 200 pound DB vs a 250 pound TE with a full head of steam is a dangerous collision for a DB - if he can’t go low, he will get killed. Targeting the receivers thighs or hip area is arguably the most powerful area of the runner. These guys often have thighs like tree trunks and they are raising them at full force when sprinting. You HAVE TO aim lower than the thigh or you’ll get drilled.
 
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ShonnDeereGreene said:
Saying a defensive player can’t go low to make a tackle is like telling them they have to stand in front of a Mack truck and pull the guy down as he’s running him over. A 200 pound DB vs a 250 pound TE with a full head of steam is a dangerous collision for a DB - if he can’t go low, he will get killed. Targeting the receivers thighs or hip area is arguably the most powerful area of the runner. These guys often have thighs like tree trunks and they are raising them at full force when sprinting. You HAVE TO aim lower than the thigh or you’ll get drilled.
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It's a tough balance, for sure. Take a guy's legs out when he's running, he stops running. In doing so, the player's knees are exposed to some violent hits forcing knees to go in a direction they weren't intended to go. Hit him higher and he can drag you for another 5 yards, if not break free altogether, possibly costing your team a game. By and large, I don't think defenders are trying to hurt an offensive player with those tackles. I think they all respect that they're playing a violent sport but don't want to do something intentionally or otherwise that will ruin/end a guy's career because they are one play away from it happening to themselves. To quote our man, It's complicated. There just isn't a solution that is risk free short of ending the game of football as we know it.
 
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