Logan Ryan back on the team?
- Thread starter troutstamp1
- Start date
It was never in much doubt.. The question was always "when", not "if". A great young man and very valuable member of this squad.
Where will he fit into to lineup picture in the future? Will he beat out Turk and Carton next year for 141?
Ryan was wrestling with Clark last Saturday and looked pretty solid imho. They had some really good scrambles.
I don't think he beats Grothus out. More interested to see if he beats Carton out for the first half of th season.
There's not much to suggest Ryan or Carton would be much more than serviceable at this point based on last years results. Other than the teammate aspect, I don't think either would fare remotely close to well against a 141 lb Grothus.
Well...welcome back Logan. He had to go through the Iowa Administration and Brands to get back on the team so they must have been really convinced to take a second chance on him based on the outcome of the situation. Logan could have transferred as there were several teams that wanted him...I guess being a Hawk was just too important for him. He basically gambled a year of eligibility on it.
Doesn't look like he's listed on the Roster yet, but that doesn't mean much at this point. If he cleared all the hurdles, good for him. Got no problem with his return. Good luck kid.
I think Carton gets the nod here. I'm more interested in seeing that match. We saw Gross and Ryan Split last year.
Always a good story when a young kid earns his way back. Nobody goes through life without making mistakes. If you can learn from them, make amends and don't make a habit of repeating you just might be successful in life!
They both have more 141 lb wins than Grothus. Who wins between a 141 lb Grothus and a 141 lb Sorensen?
Do you have a hard question? Sorensen is better at whatever weight they want to go to.
So why doesn't Sorensen wrestle 141 which is not as strong as 149? Why wasn't 141 Grothus' 1st choice?
I'll answer for you. 149 is both of their optimal weigh class. I'm not sold on Grothus necessarily being the guy at 141 for the Hawks, let alone a title contender, until he actually gets to the weight and shows something. All of the folks thinking that Grothus is gonna fair better at a lower weight than he did at his optimal weight might as well start praying for the rest of the team to drop a weight class and run away with the team title. I mean who beats Brooks a 174?
I think most of us have been saying that IF Brody can handle the cut, he could be a contender. Brody didn't make the cut last year because he thought he was the better guy at 149. He got injured at Midlands and Brandon took it from there. Another question...why would Sorensen make the cut if thinks he's the best guy in the nation at 149? Same with Brooks or anybody else for that matter.
Those of us pushing for Grothus at 141 (and optimistic about his chances there) haven't done so because we think people are naturally better at a lower weight class, but because (1) there is no rationale for two (or three) AA-caliber competitors at 149, (2) 141 is wide open, (3) Grothus isn't as consistent as Sorensen at 149 and is the more natural 141-pounder of the two, (4) we don't have another AA-caliber option waiting in the wings at 141 thanks to our head-scratching strategy of recruiting three Toyotas at 141 instead of one Ferrari, and (5) some of us would like to see Iowa win an NCAA title again, and it ain't gonna happen by wishing.
That said, yeah, I'm optimistic about his chances at 141. I see this as a smart, strategic move to help us get within spitting distance of a title. If someone thinks Ryan or Carton is a better choice at 141, that's fine--no one's stopping them from owning 141.
[ I mean who beats Brooks a 174?[/QUOTE
I'm throwing a flag PBL, that's clear OPRF bias! Has anyone broken the news to Sammy yet?
I'm throwing a flag PBL, that's clear OPRF bias! Has anyone broken the news to Sammy yet?
Chief and Tarp nailed it above. That said, Papa does have a point about believing it when he sees it. I think all of us feel that way to some degree. That said, we shouldn't let Brody's struggle with 141 last season mislead us, either. That was a crash course in dropping a weight class and was just too much all at once. He's coming down to 141 the right way now, giving his body plenty of time to acclimate.
No, 141 isn't his ideal weight, but we've seen a lot of guys excel at weights below their optimal weights, too. Matt McD is the most obvious recent example at Iowa. You could argue that he was never a natural 125-pounder, yet he put together a stellar career that would have been more stellar yet if he hadn't been injured as a senior, all at 125. I think it's quite likely that Brody will be able to thrive at 141, having made the cut gradually. The proof will be in the pudding, but this pudding could end up tasting a lot like a high-AA finish or even an individual national title for Brody, IMO.
No, 141 isn't his ideal weight, but we've seen a lot of guys excel at weights below their optimal weights, too. Matt McD is the most obvious recent example at Iowa. You could argue that he was never a natural 125-pounder, yet he put together a stellar career that would have been more stellar yet if he hadn't been injured as a senior, all at 125. I think it's quite likely that Brody will be able to thrive at 141, having made the cut gradually. The proof will be in the pudding, but this pudding could end up tasting a lot like a high-AA finish or even an individual national title for Brody, IMO.
The bitch of it is that the Hawks success this season pretty much hinges on Brody's successful drop to 141. If he can't make the cut we go with Carton or Ryan, neither have proven they can be candidates for the podium. If he gets down and wrestles like we think he can, that's quite a murderers row from 125 to 149. 4 strong candidates to be wrestling on Saturday right off the bat is not a bad way to go. Throw in Meyer, Brooks and Burak and that's 7 AA's. Any surprise production we get from 157, 165 and HWT is a bonus, as I think we'll be weak at those three weights.
I don't recall a post where I've said Grothus is a Title Contender, but if I have copy it and refresh my memory. I think the only thing I've suggested is that Grothus beats out Carton and Ryan if he gets to 141. I'll stand by that and put my money where my mouth is if need be.
As for the rest of it, it appears it's been answered by other folks. This isn't some new phenomenon to college wrestling. We'll see how it shakes out in this instance, but you not being sold on it doesn't put you in a class of 1 I assure you. At the end of the day if he gets there he has to prove it on the mat. I think most rational folks understand that is the case, with Grothus or anyone else, but Grothus has given Hawk fans reason to believe he could be effective, largely because he's a pretty good wrestler.
As for who beats Brooks at 174? Meyer is a different kettle of fish than the situation at 141.
Ramos, Colon, made the cut to 125 for freestyle...they haven't done too badly.
HR posters use freestyle to bolster their arguments, other than that freestyle results don't matter.
That was in jest but seriously day before freestyle weigh ins a few times a year (some with allowances) are not the same as making weight many times with little recovery time and on consecutive days.So as not to make another post:
My post was not directed at any one poster (also not saying Grothus won't be a NC). Just wanting to know why anyone would think a guy that hasn't ever sniffed the podium at his ideal weight would not only be the starter (totally dismissing the other kids in the room that compete at the weight) but would also be a contender (whether AA or NC) as a 5th year senior wrestling at a weight that is not ideal for him and he has yet to compete at since leaving high school. I threw out the comment about others in the lineup dropping because the same logic would seem to apply (Or maybe for some reason Grothus is the only kid in the room that would improve by getting smaller). But such is fandom.
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I'm glad someone said that other than me, this is their board so instead of just hitting the "like" Papa, I posted a few more words.HR posters use freestyle to bolster their arguments, other than that freestyle results don't matter.
So as not to make another post:
My post was not directed at any one poster (also not saying Grothus won't be a NC). Just wanting to know why anyone would think a guy that hasn't ever sniffed the podium at his ideal weight would not only be the starter (totally dismissing the other kids in the room that compete at the weight) but would also be a contender (whether AA or NC) as a 5th year senior wrestling at a weight that is not ideal for him and he has yet to compete at since leaving high school. I threw out the comment about others in the lineup dropping because the same logic would seem to apply (Or maybe for some reason Grothus is the only kid in the room that would improve by getting smaller). But such is fandom.
I think it's probably because this is an IOWA message board. Most of us are IOWA fans. Most of us trust in our coaching staff and are optimistic about our guys. Grothus has shown signs of greatness, but has also had head scratching losses. We as IOWA fans remember the days when guys like Jesse Whitmer came out of no where and marched to the top of the podium. That kind of stuff is where Hawkeye optimism comes from.HR posters use freestyle to bolster their arguments, other than that freestyle results don't matter.
So as not to make another post:
My post was not directed at any one poster (also not saying Grothus won't be a NC). Just wanting to know why anyone would think a guy that hasn't ever sniffed the podium at his ideal weight would not only be the starter (totally dismissing the other kids in the room that compete at the weight) but would also be a contender (whether AA or NC) as a 5th year senior wrestling at a weight that is not ideal for him and he has yet to compete at since leaving high school. I threw out the comment about others in the lineup dropping because the same logic would seem to apply (Or maybe for some reason Grothus is the only kid in the room that would improve by getting smaller). But such is fandom.
A lot of people on here may think you are a good internet poster, but I for one get tired of some of your "honesty"/hawkeye negativity posting. Sure Grothus winning the title is a long shot almost as long as any Gopher beating us at 149-165 the next 4 years, but we can always be optimistic on our own board.
And before any of you get on here and defend PBS' Internet posting ability, I have my opinion and don't care what yours is.
And Tognetti FYI you're still a dork.
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Grothus is not a proven commodity at 141. There are a lot of question marks for him at that weight. I disagree that people on this board have called him a title contender at that weight but I do agree a lot of posters are way too optimistic about it. I also disagree the whole season hinges on Grothus. We have a strong line up right now. If Grothus can make the weight and be effective then great. But he has to get there and show something. From what I hear there is a wait and sit it feel to this from the coaches.
I get being a fan. I, like most, am guilty of doling out to my guys/teams more optimism than warranted. It's part of being a fan.
My issue is with the attachment to Grothus and not just being a Hawk fan. If there were no other options at 141 or if the theme was whoever comes out on that 141 for the Hawks will do well is typical fandom. Dismissing ther other kids that have/can compete at the weight in the room while saying Grothus will be the guy and have a good shot at AA (and in some cases NC) as a 5th year senior moving to a new weight class is where the disconnect is at.
The other stuff about 149-165
I'm not that sensitive.As a neutral fan, I can see where the Hawkeye optimism comes from. I too remember Jesse Whitmer and I remember an ineligible kid finally becoming eligible the second semester of his sophomore year and winning a national title. His name was Brad Penrith.
I can't remember all the times a Hawk pulled a win out in the last few seconds. AKA Meyer as a back up - pinning the number 5 ranked kid last year. Who was the guy who pinned the returning national champ from ISU in a dual to seal the victory for the Hawks against ISU. How about when they got manhandled by OSU late in the season in a dual something ridiculous like 23-5 or something and then went on to win the national title by a huge margin. How many AA's did Grothus beat at the Midlands that one year. Didn't he beat the Number 1-3 finishers that year and then the next year, he doesn't even make the line up. How many teams have that kind of a story to tell? Not many, if any.
If anyone has a right to be optimistic, it is a Hawkeye wrestling fan. I personally never count them out of any meet or team race until the points are tallied and they are mathematically eliminated. We can call it dreaming or believing in the impossible, but I think Hawkeye wrestling fans just see the possibilities of what anyone who puts in enough effort can accomplish. And the good Lord knows, if you wrestle for the Hawks, you are putting in the effort.
I can't remember all the times a Hawk pulled a win out in the last few seconds. AKA Meyer as a back up - pinning the number 5 ranked kid last year. Who was the guy who pinned the returning national champ from ISU in a dual to seal the victory for the Hawks against ISU. How about when they got manhandled by OSU late in the season in a dual something ridiculous like 23-5 or something and then went on to win the national title by a huge margin. How many AA's did Grothus beat at the Midlands that one year. Didn't he beat the Number 1-3 finishers that year and then the next year, he doesn't even make the line up. How many teams have that kind of a story to tell? Not many, if any.
If anyone has a right to be optimistic, it is a Hawkeye wrestling fan. I personally never count them out of any meet or team race until the points are tallied and they are mathematically eliminated. We can call it dreaming or believing in the impossible, but I think Hawkeye wrestling fans just see the possibilities of what anyone who puts in enough effort can accomplish. And the good Lord knows, if you wrestle for the Hawks, you are putting in the effort.
It's ok. I may call out some stupidity, ignorance, provide a fact or correct a "fact" every now and then about my kid but I won't get upset about some anonymous dude on the internet posting an opinion about my kid.
I can go with this. I'm all for fans being fans but was just questioning a particular line of thought. Either way "Grothus to 141" has been beaten death over the last year. Looking forward to watching it play out.
Sometimes you are just a bit too cerebral for the written word on a wrestling message board. I was picking up what you were laying down, but not everyone apparently did.
Oh yeah, best of luck to your boy the next 5 years. If any of Mike Powell's class rubbed off on your boy, which I am sure it did, he will be in for a great ride at Minny and life in general.
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