Logan Ryan back on the team?
- Thread starter troutstamp1
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HR posters use freestyle to bolster their arguments, other than that freestyle results don't matter.That was in jest but seriously day before freestyle weigh ins a few times a year (some with allowances) are not the same as making weight many times with little recovery time and on consecutive days.
So as not to make another post:
My post was not directed at any one poster (also not saying Grothus won't be a NC). Just wanting to know why anyone would think a guy that hasn't ever sniffed the podium at his ideal weight would not only be the starter (totally dismissing the other kids in the room that compete at the weight) but would also be a contender (whether AA or NC) as a 5th year senior wrestling at a weight that is not ideal for him and he has yet to compete at since leaving high school. I threw out the comment about others in the lineup dropping because the same logic would seem to apply (Or maybe for some reason Grothus is the only kid in the room that would improve by getting smaller). But such is fandom.
I see plenty of reason for optimism for Brody at 141. First of all, you're minimizing who we're talking about. Surely, you realize that Brody held wins over the top 4 national place winners at 149. He just happened to get beat out by a phenom who placed 4th as a freshman. Without Sorensen in his own room, he probably would have been on the podium. So this is far from just some "guy that hasn't ever sniffed the podium at his ideal weight". This little nugget was conveniently left out of your argument.
Second, 141 is the consensus weakest weight this season.
This isn't rocket science. You have a guy who was pretty long for 149, with a ton of talent, who's making the cut to 141 where his length will be more of an advantage. He's experienced and he's shown that he can beat the best guys in the nation at 149. Frankly, you'd have to be a little nutty not to recognize why Iowa fans are optimistic about his chances at 141 -- assuming he can hold the weight and perform. Hawk fans have consistently included this caveat. If he can hold the weight and perform to his ability, he'll be dangerous at 141. This isn't a mystery.
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Sorenson/Kemerer/Marinelli/Young we were talking about Optimism. I am optimistic about our middle weights going forward.
i don't think anyone has ever asked you to be the fact checker or stupidity monitor of HR.
Papa, I got no problem with your commentary, you just sound like a guy that's a bit uninformed as it relates to Grothus specifically. He's not trying to move down a weight and take out Mark Ironside (and I don't think that disparages anyone currently there, the records are what they are for everybody, that's the reality until it changes). I have no idea what his "optimal" weight is, but we've all seen him get ragdolled now and again against "stockier" fellas that seem to fit the weight class better. Brody is tall/ lean (which doesn't make him weak or "bad") and he's always been a balls the to walls guy when he CAN be. He's aggressive but doesn't have the horsepower to pull off everything that he tries to do, but I give him credit for sure for going for it. He MAY advance in that department down a weight, but probably not like The Strongest Man in the World, a.k.a. Jesse Whitmer.HR posters use freestyle to bolster their arguments, other than that freestyle results don't matter.
So as not to make another post:
My post was not directed at any one poster (also not saying Grothus won't be a NC). Just wanting to know why anyone would think a guy that hasn't ever sniffed the podium at his ideal weight would not only be the starter (totally dismissing the other kids in the room that compete at the weight) but would also be a contender (whether AA or NC) as a 5th year senior wrestling at a weight that is not ideal for him and he has yet to compete at since leaving high school. I threw out the comment about others in the lineup dropping because the same logic would seem to apply (Or maybe for some reason Grothus is the only kid in the room that would improve by getting smaller). But such is fandom.
And as previously stated by several people, Grothus has several quality wins and has represented himself fairly well, even when he's been overmatched. He didn't come into Iowa with All-Star credentials either, so he's done well in that regard also. Carton and Ryan to my knowledge don't have any "signature" wins at this point in their careers (yes Ryan is youngster, maybe he or Carton will have some one day - remains to be seen). As an Iowa fan the potential for Grothus at 141 specifically is exciting as of today, we'll all see together how it shakes out down the road (and last but not least, if Carton or Ryan keep him from getting that spot, that means we're going to be OK at 141 regardless, IMO).
I am just not as optimistic about the cut.
His last attempt was a disaster (I know he was trying to donut too fast) and he has stated many times he hates cutting hard weight. However it sounds like he has a mission which is great as long as it is not lip service. (Not accusing but it happens).
There is no doubt in my mind that if he makes the weight, holds it and can execute, he will do great things at that weight. He will really help the team. There is a lot of road before we know that.
What troubles me is if he struggles. How long will Tom let him try and will it create a circus. "Will he make it this week?" "He was so sluggish tonight, must be the cut". If it becomes a roller coaster that will derail the team. And while I agree with everyone on recruiting, I think a big reason we have had a hard time getting on top is because every year we have question marks with the line up at weights. The team needs to know early if he can make and sustain the weight. The line up needs to pan out much earlier in the year for us to be on top. My two cents.
His last attempt was a disaster (I know he was trying to donut too fast) and he has stated many times he hates cutting hard weight. However it sounds like he has a mission which is great as long as it is not lip service. (Not accusing but it happens).
There is no doubt in my mind that if he makes the weight, holds it and can execute, he will do great things at that weight. He will really help the team. There is a lot of road before we know that.
What troubles me is if he struggles. How long will Tom let him try and will it create a circus. "Will he make it this week?" "He was so sluggish tonight, must be the cut". If it becomes a roller coaster that will derail the team. And while I agree with everyone on recruiting, I think a big reason we have had a hard time getting on top is because every year we have question marks with the line up at weights. The team needs to know early if he can make and sustain the weight. The line up needs to pan out much earlier in the year for us to be on top. My two cents.
I don't see the downside. This isn't like Clark keeping Gilman out of the lineup. 141 is CLEARLY unproven, if it were something other than that, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Carton and Ryan (and if Tom falls on his head and forgets he doesn't wrestle true freshman. possibly Turk) DO have the opportunity to keep Grothus out of the lineup, if they're up to it. This is a win-win situation all the way IMO.
My concern is more about the recent history of 5th year seniors @Iowa under Brands, who previously had not placed @NCAAs. Since the last title we looked for Jansen, Ballweg, Nick Moore and Jeva to finally get over the hump and provide serious points at NCAAs to get the team over the hump. None have delivered AA performances. This is a real concern as mentioned by someone above.
That said, I believe and echo the post by Sloehawk: Grothus' main weakness @149 was the strength component; this would likely be area of advantage @141. I like the way he matches up @141 much better than where he stood @149.
I've been perhaps the loudest cheerleader for Grothus at 41, so I'll add that I have no issue with Papa Bear's (or anyone else's) reluctance in anointing Grothus the NCAA title. But my optimism is more than "We're Iowa, gosh darn it and miracles happen." (That's our strategy at 157, 165 and 285.) At 141 there's a clear path to success for Grothus. Doesn't mean it's gonna happen. Just means there's a path. He seems to know it too, and I'm excited about that.
Exactly.
For anyone who's worried about Brody's ability to make the cut, you might want to listen to IAWrestle's Potentially Dangerous podcast. It's a long, detailed, excellent interview in which Brody goes into quite a bit of detail about his plan to make 141. He's very confident about it, and he's well on his way down to that weight.
Sure, exactly how his body will hold up at 141 remains a question, but he's committed to it and doing it the right way. That's more than half of the battle right there. It's not like he's re-inventing the wheel here. He's doing something that many others have done successfully before. Again, we'll have to see exactly how it plays out for him, but I'm confident it will go quite well.
But "downside" (of the plan to cut to 141) requires things to somehow be worse for him or the team. But as many have pointed out if it doesn't pan out nobody is worse off than if he just stayed 149 and waited to see if Sorensen gets injured.
So while you can be pessimistic about his chances at 141, there really isn't a downside.
The up side is a pretty decent chance that he gets enough points at nationals to put the Hawks over the top for a NC. That's a huge upside, which is why many of us are happy about this.
Ok, no real team downside other than if it roller coasters and keeps the line up in question for most the year.
I am not against the kid at all. I worry about hard cuts FOR the kid. Last time he did it wrong and ended up in the ER.
He has a better plan but cutting, especially guys who struggle with it, can be risky.
I would like nothing better than for it to go well. For the team AND for him personally.
I am not against the kid at all. I worry about hard cuts FOR the kid. Last time he did it wrong and ended up in the ER.
He has a better plan but cutting, especially guys who struggle with it, can be risky.
I would like nothing better than for it to go well. For the team AND for him personally.
If the weight is a problem -- which I think is unlikely, given the gradual cut that Brody's making -- it should be evident in plenty of time to get someone else in the lineup well in advance of Big Tens. Of course, we all want what's best for Brody's health first. If it doesn't work out in that regard, next man in. If it does, there's nothing but upside, as art says.
Out on the limb here ... if Brody makes and maintains 141 all year, he wins it all to help the hawks win it all!!! Go Hawks!!!
Brody making 141 and holding it should be much easier than last season with the extra time to do so. Brody is on track and is feeling good. He is doing more exercises every week and his lower half is being worked very hard while easing into more upper body movements. For 2 weeks he had been weighing in at 149.5 after his workouts and that was a few days back. Let me add he started out at 154. The pace is starting to pick up for him.
He is right on track to where we all want him to be. If the upper half gets to 100% look out. He wants to end his career the right way. I'm hoping he gets his wish.
Brody's walking around weight is 165 so managing the 154 is awesome on his part.Sounds like he is doing better than good.
I for one enjoy pbs posting. There's been a few whacky dads on here but I wouldn't consider him one. Btw your kid look huge at Fargo. What did he cut from 190?
On the other hand of course going down a weight can benefit a guy. How many time nc would McDonald's been at 33? Remember he wrestled 130 his sr year of hs. Some guys are big cutters and some arnt. A lot of guys Brody's size would have been wrestling 41 all along.
On the other hand of course going down a weight can benefit a guy. How many time nc would McDonald's been at 33? Remember he wrestled 130 his sr year of hs. Some guys are big cutters and some arnt. A lot of guys Brody's size would have been wrestling 41 all along.
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No real downside. The beauty of the sport is that Brody controls his own destiny or we have two serviceable guys in Carton and Ryan waiting to take the reins. As a coach and spokesman of the team, Brands's attitude is spot on.
Isn't the downside that Brody ends up back in the hospital again? Unfortunately many wrestling fans have a tendency to act like these guys are toy soldiers when it comes to changing weights and forget there are health consequences to be considered.
As far as I know, no one wants Brody to go to the hospital, and no one is treating Brody like an expendable cog.
JORDAN OLIVER USE TO BLOW UP TO 167LBS DURING THE OFF SEASON DURING HIS 133 RUN SO I'M SURE BRODY CAN MAKE 141 WITH NO PROBLEM. SOME CAN MANAGE THE CUT BETTER THAN OTHERS. HE SEEMS MOTIVATED SO I BELIEVE HE WILL MAKE THE WEIGHT AND SEE GOOD RESULTS
Except this isn't that at all. There were two openings in the lineup, 141 and 157. Brody made the decision himself several months ago that he was going to go to 141 and as he has already stated in an interview, he is doing it the right way this time.
Unfortunately some people like to act like Iowa fans are crazy loons that don't understand that wrestlers are people too. We understand the health consequences, but when it literally comes from his own mouth that he didn't cut to 141 the right way last year (he tried to go from a 157 wrestle off weight to 141 in about 10 days) and now that he has the time he is going to do it the right way, we tend to believe in the wrestler.
I get the sense that if you were eaten alive by rabid wolves, no one would consider it a tragedy...
Good opportunity for Travis Rutt to shine. I hope he's actively involved advising, monitoring and testing Grothus as he drops.
Also his time to shine in getting coopers body ready for 157
I can definitely understand why penn st. fans would not want brody grothus at full go at 141
No, the downside is that you are here contaminating the board with your unbridled prejudice.
Yeah, I remember the last time I was at the Mayo Clinic and heading to to see a friend recovering from surgery, and I was overwhelmed by the number of rooms occupied by wrestlers who were cutting weight......................
In other news, man has landed on the moon.
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