Making lemonade out of the situation with Shannon ...

[ghostOfHomer777]

Obviously, losing all that experience and leadership sucks. However, on the flip side ... a few guys are getting A LOT more snaps now than they would have received had Shannon been a go. Thus, in the longer term, that means that the DL will likely be better off than it would have been otherwise.

Similarly, I think that we'll already be seeing the payoff with Lee at corner ... getting those starts in the first 2 games.

I'll be curious to see how guys develop through the year. Will Thompson, at DT, develop to a point where Coach Bell will give him some snaps? How about Filer, at DE? Obviously, those guys have to earn their opportunities ... but will they?

It's interesting how this is one of the first years in a long time where we haven't seen ANY true freshmen play right away. Of course, plenty of young guys are playing ... X is starting, Lee earned starts ... and Entringer and Hall are contributing too. As for younger guys on the DL ... we're seeing Graves, Llewellyn, and Pittman all see quality snaps.

Continued development of our younger LBs is still a place where we need to see growth ... otherwise the transition from this year to next year might be quite painful.

 

[F5n5]

I like the positivity...
you could have said the D-Line sucks and that we are in last place in the country in sacks and that we need to fire the DC and Kirk Ferentz and the AD and Gary Dolphin and all that...
but you kept it positive... I like that.

 

[ICWestfan]

I like the positivity...
you could have said the D-Line sucks and that we are in last place in the country in sacks and that we need to fire the DC and Kirk Ferentz and the AD and Gary Dolphin and all that...
but you kept it positive... I like that.

And yet YOU went all negative. Good job there calling out other posters.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Well, nice try OP.

I am more upset about the draconian punishment than I am missing Shannon for the season. The Hawks will carry on, but Noah is missing out on a season of football for a rules violation.

Yet coaches seem to get 4 game suspensions in the early season normally against nobody.

Unfair.

 

[cmhawks99]

And yet YOU went all negative. Good job there calling out other posters.

Meh, you’re right of course. But when you are a positive sort and come here for information on your team, injuries, recruiting information, behind-the-scenes stuff & to share camaraderie with other Iowa fans… It’s quite a grind to be bombarded with, this guy sucks and this sucks and we should fire this guy etc. etc..

It makes people bitter who normally aren’t bitter.

Although you are correct, that’s just shaking up hornets nests. I’ve done it myself and it is stupid!

 

[Georgia_Hawk]

I am not worried about the lack of sacks. Both Utah State and ISU were going with first reads and in most cases short routes. If teams start extending to longer routes, I think our d-linemen will get more sacks, and also Phil will dial up more blitzes

 

[83Hawk]

I am not worried about the lack of sacks. Both Utah State and ISU were going with first reads and in most cases short routes. If teams start extending to longer routes, I think our d-linemen will get more sacks, and also Phil will dial up more blitzes

I've been happy with the defense, and not worried about lack of sacks either. They'll get them.

 

[cmhawks99]

Obviously, losing all that experience and leadership sucks. However, on the flip side ... a few guys are getting A LOT more snaps now than they would have received had Shannon been a go. Thus, in the longer term, that means that the DL will likely be better off than it would have been otherwise.

Similarly, I think that we'll already be seeing the payoff with Lee at corner ... getting those starts in the first 2 games.

I'll be curious to see how guys develop through the year. Will Thompson, at DT, develop to a point where Coach Bell will give him some snaps? How about Filer, at DE? Obviously, those guys have to earn their opportunities ... but will they?

It's interesting how this is one of the first years in a long time where we haven't seen ANY true freshmen play right away. Of course, plenty of young guys are playing ... X is starting, Lee earned starts ... and Entringer and Hall are contributing too. As for younger guys on the DL ... we're seeing Graves, Llewellyn, and Pittman all see quality snaps.

Continued development of our younger LBs is still a place where we need to see growth ... otherwise the transition from this year to next year might be quite painful.

In the case of Harris’ suspension and the emergence of Lee, yes that was a very good thing.

As for Shannon, I was fairly confident we could weather him not playing for several games. But what they did to that kid is an absolute joke and I feel awful for him. I get accountability and I embrace it, but some of these rulings are grossly arbitrary and teach nothing, so it’s hard for me in his case to see any silver lining.

Now to your thoughts….I am curios on Thompson, and a little bit on Filer. What do you know… You hear things from time to time. I knew we had a lot of talent, Brian Allen immediately comes to mind that has already been here a year & is still a freshman that I would think is ahead of those guys, but with Thompson’s athleticism, I did think he would see some time?

With that said, I think we all know athleticism is important (you and I have both preached our huge defensive improvement in recruiting & athleticism for some time) but if you don’t know what you’re doing, you do more damage than good.

As for Filer, we all knew he was undersized, but it was a strange move by a kid to come here at all, and not get any playing time, it is early though & Hurkett has looked awesome so far!

As for the frosh thing, yes, it is interesting, as we have had several in recent years. But… I believe our current red shirt freshman, & sophomore grouping is pretty talented… and many of them still aren’t seeing the field a great deal!

 

[NCHawkeye24]

OP, I appreciate your positivity. I do think that any way you look at it though it hurts to lose him. A team can never have enough depth on the dline. Of any group on the team, I think the dline is best suited to absorb that loss, but nevertheless it sucks to lose his experience and size.

Does anyone know what Iowa game he bet on? Just curious.

 

[AuroraHawk]

In the case of Harris’ suspension and the emergence of Lee, yes that was a very good thing.

As for Shannon, I was fairly confident we could weather him not playing for several games. But what they did to that kid is an absolute joke and I feel awful for him. I get accountability and I embrace it, but some of these rulings are grossly arbitrary and teach nothing, so it’s hard for me in his case to see any silver lining.

Now to your thoughts….I am curios on Thompson, and a little bit on Filer. What do you know… You hear things from time to time. I knew we had a lot of talent, Brian Allen immediately comes to mind did it has already been here a year is still a freshman that I would think is ahead of those guys, but with Thompson’s athleticism, I did think he would see some time?

With that said, I think we all know athleticism is important (you and I have both preached our huge defensive improvement in recruiting & athleticism for some time) but if you don’t know what you’re doing, you do more damage than good.

As for Filer, we all knew he was undersized, but it was a strange move by a kid to come here at all, and not get any playing time, it is early though & Hurkett has looked awesome so far!

As for the frosh thing, yes, it is interesting, as we have had several in recent years. But… I believe our current red shirt freshman, the sophomore grouping is pretty talented… and many of them still aren’t seeing the field a great deal!

What “who” did what to Shannon?

Players are told that they risk losing eligibility permanently if they gamble on sports. Not for a game. Not for two games. But permanently.

Leading into his final year, he rolled the dice. He did so knowing the ramifications.

I continue to be stunned by the number of people feeling that Shannon is somehow being treated unfairly.

Nobody seems to be complaining that Gehrig Christensen or Jacob Henderson is being treated unfairly. Same punishment - except Christensen lost all years of remaining eligibility.

 

[rrsteffe]

OP, I appreciate your positivity. I do think that any way you look at it though it hurts to lose him. A team can never have enough depth on the dline. Of any group on the team, I think the dline is best suited to absorb that loss, but nevertheless it sucks to lose his experience and size.

Does anyone know what Iowa game he bet on? Just curious.

Word is that he bet on the WBB championship game last year.

 

[cmhawks99]

What “who” did what to Shannon?

Players are told that they risk losing eligibility permanently if they gamble on sports. Not for a game. Not for two games. But permanently.

Leading into his final year, he rolled the dice. He did so knowing the ramifications.

I continue to be stunned by the number of people feeling that Shannon is somehow being treated unfairly.

Nobody seems to be complaining that Gehrig Christensen or Jacob Henderson is being treated unfairly. Same punishment - except Christensen lost all years of remaining eligibility.

I get that, but Harris got 2games?!

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

It's usually about the 3rd or 4th game when we see a difference in our team. Their bodies finally get away from the off season lifting rigors and start performing better. Bullies of the Big Ten show up.....

 

[squeezebox]

I wouldn't mind seeing Brian Allen getting mixed in a bit more, dude was an absolute beast at kids day. It didn't appear that he was in at all against ISU, or at least didn't put up any stats.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

Well, nice try OP.

I am more upset about the draconian punishment than I am missing Shannon for the season. The Hawks will carry on, but Noah is missing out on a season of football for a rules violation.

Yet coaches seem to get 4 game suspensions in the early season normally against nobody.

Unfair.

That doesn’t even account for the amount of online abuse/hate mail/etc…..they’ve received. Sure these kids ****ed up placing 10 bucks on a parlay, but the DCI, county prosecutors and NCAA did these kids dirty.

 

[cmhawks99]

I wouldn't mind seeing Brian Allen getting mixed in a bit more, dude was an absolute beast at kids day. It didn't appear that he was in at all against ISU, or at least didn't put up any stats.

Yes….with that said, he was going against an undersized walk-on OT Id never even heard of. But I do love his upside!

PS….has anyone seen a participation chart of who has played on D, Id like to know that?

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Obviously, losing all that experience and leadership sucks. However, on the flip side ... a few guys are getting A LOT more snaps now than they would have received had Shannon been a go. Thus, in the longer term, that means that the DL will likely be better off than it would have been otherwise.

Similarly, I think that we'll already be seeing the payoff with Lee at corner ... getting those starts in the first 2 games.

I'll be curious to see how guys develop through the year. Will Thompson, at DT, develop to a point where Coach Bell will give him some snaps? How about Filer, at DE? Obviously, those guys have to earn their opportunities ... but will they?

It's interesting how this is one of the first years in a long time where we haven't seen ANY true freshmen play right away. Of course, plenty of young guys are playing ... X is starting, Lee earned starts ... and Entringer and Hall are contributing too. As for younger guys on the DL ... we're seeing Graves, Llewellyn, and Pittman all see quality snaps.

Continued development of our younger LBs is still a place where we need to see growth ... otherwise the transition from this year to next year might be quite painful.

Orrrr..........we can make lemonade out of spoiled lemons by having a #96 appear at DT starting on Saturday who may or may not look inconspicuously similar to Noah Shannon.........................


Just sayin.

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

Players are told that they risk losing eligibility permanently if they gamble on sports.

RISK being the operative word.

Doesn’t mean they couldn’t have made it half a season or just a few games.

They chose to make it the full season.

I don’t think anyone feels the punishment fits the crime in this situation.

 

[cmhawks99]

Obviously, losing all that experience and leadership sucks. However, on the flip side ... a few guys are getting A LOT more snaps now than they would have received had Shannon been a go. Thus, in the longer term, that means that the DL will likely be better off than it would have been otherwise.

Similarly, I think that we'll already be seeing the payoff with Lee at corner ... getting those starts in the first 2 games.

I'll be curious to see how guys develop through the year. Will Thompson, at DT, develop to a point where Coach Bell will give him some snaps? How about Filer, at DE? Obviously, those guys have to earn their opportunities ... but will they?

It's interesting how this is one of the first years in a long time where we haven't seen ANY true freshmen play right away. Of course, plenty of young guys are playing ... X is starting, Lee earned starts ... and Entringer and Hall are contributing too. As for younger guys on the DL ... we're seeing Graves, Llewellyn, and Pittman all see quality snaps.

Continued development of our younger LBs is still a place where we need to see growth ... otherwise the transition from this year to next year might be quite painful.

Also of note…Kyler Fisher has played quite well!

 

[AuroraHawk]

RISK being the operative word.

Doesn’t mean they couldn’t have made it half a season or just a few games.

They chose to make it the full season.

I don’t think anyone feels the punishment fits the crime in this situation.

The default penalty for betting on games involving teams from your own institution is permanent ineligibility. Translation: No chance of reinstatement. After submitting his application for reinstatement, the NCAA's reinstatement committee imposed a lesser penalty - one year. But, as fate has it, Shannon's eligibility ends after one year so it is the equivalent of permanent ineligibility.

Unless and until someone can point me to a single athlete (just one) who has:
a. Been suspended for gambling, including betting on a team at his/her own institution;
b. Applied for reinstatement; and
c. Received less than one year suspension
No one will be able to convince me that Shannon's punishment was unduly harsh.

And, for anyone and everyone who thinks that Iowa and ISU are somehow getting "screwed" by the NCCA, consider this: The NCAA changed its reinstatement rules (making them less harsh) AFTER the news poured in about the ISU/Iowa athletes and the NCAA chose to draft its rules such that the lesser penalties applied AFTER THE FACT.

If anything, by adopting lesser penalties for those who didn't (a) provide information for the purpose of benefitting gamblers; (b) bet on his/her own game; and (c) didn't bet on a team from own institution, the NCAA opened the door to a certain starting defensive back to be playing against WMU this weekend and available for the PSU game. Under the old rules - which existed at the time the offenses were committed - that defensive back would not have been playing this weekend or against PSU.

Those items listed in (a), (b) and (c) are held sacrosanct by the NCAA. Sucks for Shannon. Big time. Sucked for the baseball players as well. But sometimes young people find out that taking a chance isn't worth it.

 

[OILCHECKER]

Pretty sure filer and Thompson are redshirting and will continue to do so unless injuries pile up. But they could in theory still see some game action this year while preserving their rs.

 

[cmhawks99]

Pretty sure filer and Thompson are redshirting and will continue to do so unless injuries pile up. But they could in theory still see some game action this year while preserving their rs.

Thanks for that information. I did not know that.

 

[AuroraHawk]

I get that, but Harris got 2games?!

Harris didn't bet on a team that plays for the University of Iowa. Go to the guidelines. It is laid out quite clearly.

The NCAA considers betting less than $250 total on professional sports much differently than betting on a game involving the gambling athlete's own institution. It is trying to prevent or disincentive "insider trading."

John Doe, WR from University Y, tells Bob Doe, PG for University Y's basketball team, that University Y's starting QB hurt himself in practice and isn't going to play. The football team tries to keep it quiet to prevent the next opponent from game planning for it. Bob Doe, with that "inside" information, bets on University Y's football team not to cover, bets on University Y's football team to score less than X number of points and bets the under on the game.

If you want to hate the penalty, so be it. I've got no problem with that. My problem is with those who claim that the NCAA's penalty was simply to screw over Shannon. It wasn't. It fit exactly with what he did.

 

[cmhawks99]

Harris didn't bet on a team that plays for the University of Iowa. Go to the guidelines. It is laid out quite clearly.

The NCAA considers betting less than $250 total on professional sports much differently than betting on a game involving the gambling athlete's own institution. It is trying to prevent or disincentive "insider trading."

John Doe, WR from University Y, tells Bob Doe, PG for University Y's basketball team, that University Y's starting QB hurt himself in practice and isn't going to play. The football team tries to keep it quiet to prevent the next opponent from game planning for it. Bob Doe, with that "inside" information, bets on University Y's football team not to cover, bets on University Y's football team to score less than X number of points and bets the under on the game.

If you want to hate the penalty, so be it. I've got no problem with that. My problem is with those who claim that the NCAA's penalty was simply to screw over Shannon. It wasn't. It fit exactly with what he did.

Understood

 

[jonesy5960]

Harris didn't bet on a team that plays for the University of Iowa. Go to the guidelines. It is laid out quite clearly.

The NCAA considers betting less than $250 total on professional sports much differently than betting on a game involving the gambling athlete's own institution. It is trying to prevent or disincentive "insider trading."

John Doe, WR from University Y, tells Bob Doe, PG for University Y's basketball team, that University Y's starting QB hurt himself in practice and isn't going to play. The football team tries to keep it quiet to prevent the next opponent from game planning for it. Bob Doe, with that "inside" information, bets on University Y's football team not to cover, bets on University Y's football team to score less than X number of points and bets the under on the game.

If you want to hate the penalty, so be it. I've got no problem with that. My problem is with those who claim that the NCAA's penalty was simply to screw over Shannon. It wasn't. It fit exactly with what he did.

It's the victim mentality that's so pervasive nowadays. The whole world has it in for them. I call it the George Costanza syndrome.

 

[2D_]

David Eickholt straight up said we should play him anyway and see what happens. That would never happen under Kirk's watch, but I like the idea. Shannon was completely screwed on this. I hope he can still have a great showing at the NFL Combine.

 

[cmhawks99]

It's the victim mentality that's so pervasive nowadays. The whole world has it in for them. I call it the George Costanza syndrome.

Well, we don’t really know how Shannon feels maybe he understands… I honestly didn’t know the totality of the ruling like Aurora. Hawks said I needed to… At the end of the day it is what it is and if they did it know gambling put them at risk they shouldn’t… I don’t gamble and haven’t for 100 years.

 

[BonzoFury]

David Eickholt straight up said we should play him anyway and see what happens. That would never happen under Kirk's watch, but I like the idea. Shannon was completely screwed on this. I hope he can still have a great showing at the NFL Combine.

Not the best idea. Use of an ineligible player ends up as a "L" on the schedule...or potentially worse.

 

[BigDan21]

Unless and until someone can point me to a single athlete (just one) who has:
a. Been suspended for gambling, including betting on a team at his/her own institution;
b. Applied for reinstatement; and
c. Received less than one year suspension
No one will be able to convince me that Shannon's punishment was unduly harsh.

The issue isn’t just the punishment, it’s the policy itself. Placing a legal bet for a team that you don’t play for should not come with any punishment at all.

This is basically like receiving life in prison for walking on the wrong side of the sidewalk. The punishment doesn’t fit the infraction, and the “infraction” shouldn’t really be an infraction in the first place. The NCAA should have taken this opportunity to change their rules rather than suspending Shannon.

 

[amahawk]

Does the NCAA enforce academic standards?

 

[kceasthawk]

Does the NCAA enforce academic standards?

Lololol...... Ask N Carolina.....

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

OP, I appreciate your positivity. I do think that any way you look at it though it hurts to lose him. A team can never have enough depth on the dline. Of any group on the team, I think the dline is best suited to absorb that loss, but nevertheless it sucks to lose his experience and size.

Does anyone know what Iowa game he bet on? Just curious.

No doubt ... losing Shannon is lemons. It's sour as shit ... no hiding from that. Any dividends gained are future-oriented.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

Harris didn't bet on a team that plays for the University of Iowa. Go to the guidelines. It is laid out quite clearly.

The NCAA considers betting less than $250 total on professional sports much differently than betting on a game involving the gambling athlete's own institution. It is trying to prevent or disincentive "insider trading."

John Doe, WR from University Y, tells Bob Doe, PG for University Y's basketball team, that University Y's starting QB hurt himself in practice and isn't going to play. The football team tries to keep it quiet to prevent the next opponent from game planning for it. Bob Doe, with that "inside" information, bets on University Y's football team not to cover, bets on University Y's football team to score less than X number of points and bets the under on the game.

If you want to hate the penalty, so be it. I've got no problem with that. My problem is with those who claim that the NCAA's penalty was simply to screw over Shannon. It wasn't. It fit exactly with what he did.

Not only some parallel of insider trading ... but there is the desire to curtail and/or prevent the possibility of coercive forces playing a role as a result of such gambling.

I don't entirely disagree with the intent.

The sad thing is if the betting was driven by, let's say, excitement over the women's basketball program. Then, the intent of the betting may have simply been driven by school spirit ... quite the opposite of fostering coercive forces.

 

[Franisdaman]

Here's a story with some numbers showing how we miss Noah Shannon:

 

[hawkedoff]

Harris didn't bet on a team that plays for the University of Iowa. Go to the guidelines. It is laid out quite clearly.

The NCAA considers betting less than $250 total on professional sports much differently than betting on a game involving the gambling athlete's own institution. It is trying to prevent or disincentive "insider trading."

John Doe, WR from University Y, tells Bob Doe, PG for University Y's basketball team, that University Y's starting QB hurt himself in practice and isn't going to play. The football team tries to keep it quiet to prevent the next opponent from game planning for it. Bob Doe, with that "inside" information, bets on University Y's football team not to cover, bets on University Y's football team to score less than X number of points and bets the under on the game.

If you want to hate the penalty, so be it. I've got no problem with that. My problem is with those who claim that the NCAA's penalty was simply to screw over Shannon. It wasn't. It fit exactly with what he did.

And the likelihood that the information received by the ncaa is fruit from a poisoned tree? The information starting to.come out on the investigation stinks to high heaven.

 

[83Hawk]

And the likelihood that the information received by the ncaa is fruit from a poisoned tree? The information starting to.come out on the investigation stinks to high heaven.

I still think this whole thing was started by someone with an agenda.

 

[Madman_1]

I still think this whole thing was started by someone with an agenda.

I thought it was started because some idiot used his mom's credit card to start a gambling account, and didn't even let her know.

 

[Hawksbyamillion]

I get rules are rules and if you risk breaking one and get caught you should be prepared to face the consequences. I don’t feel the punishment fits the crime in this case, as many have alluded to.

What bothers me the most though is the NCAA knows it’s not just the state of Iowa where this has taken place, yet so far it doesn’t seem like they care to really enforce this rule for everyone if they’re not looking into infarctions in other states as well. I look at it as random drug testing. Why not start randomly looking into it within other programs/states rather than just relying on programs like Iowa and ISU to turn themselves in? Seems like they’re ok with burying their heads in the sand for others but are more than happy to make an example of Iowa and ISU.

 

[hawkedoff]

I get rules are rules and if you risk breaking one and get caught you should be prepared to face the consequences. I don’t feel the punishment fits the crime in this case, as many have alluded to.

What bothers me the most though is the NCAA knows it’s not just the state of Iowa where this has taken place, yet so far it doesn’t seem like they care to really enforce this rule for everyone if they’re not looking into infarctions in other states as well. I look at it as random drug testing. Why not start randomly looking into it within other programs/states rather than just relying on programs like Iowa and ISU to turn themselves in? Seems like they’re ok with burying their heads in the sand for others but are more than happy to make an example of Iowa and ISU.

I am always amazed by comments like this one. Not that it isn't correct but that when it a comment like this is made it is towards the individual and not the government. The government that has all the power need to follow the law and the rules as well.

It sure looks like they didn't follow the rules or the law on this.

 

[hawkedoff]

I thought it was started because some idiot used his mom's credit card to start a gambling account, and didn't even let her know.

Assuming that is true, how is it probable cause to use geolocation data to fish broadly for others that are gambling? It isn't probable cause for anything other than the kid that did this. The fact they zeroed in on athletes makes it even worse.

No, that is not a good reason at all