Moss is the man!

[hexumhawk]

He isnt going to WOW anyone with overall athleticism but you dont have to do that to be an effective player. He has a good stroke, knows when to drive and doesnt turn the ball over. Lots of upside there.

He also seems to know the difference between a good shot and a bad shot. That is tough to teach.

 

[MepoDawg#]

Love that Moss can get fouled and still finish. We've had very few AND ONES the past several years

This. He can finish, in recent years it seemed like players were just looking for contact and didn't try to finish, just wanted to get to the line. No we have some who want to finish no matter what.

Also, I think the freshmen class is going to be better for Wagner than last years seniors were. They're pushing for playing time and pushing him.

 

[Titanhawk2]

Agree, not a fan at all of RS guards, only projects like Olaseni (someone with a high ceiling but played very little basketball). If it doesn't work out with the player (ie he's not very good, etc), why do you want to tie up a scholarship for 5 years? HS kids play so much AAU ball and around the year, I'm not sure how much improvement you are going to see with the redshirt. My motto would be no redshirts and play 'em early.

Since he couldn't take a summer class last year, like most, and looked to have some school issues, the redshirt probably helped him be academically eligible to play this year.

 

[OutbackBowl2017]

Moss' confidence is growing with each game and win. Just want him to throw down one of these times instead of just lay it in with the mad hops he has.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

Since he couldn't take a summer class last year, like most, and looked to have some school issues, the redshirt probably helped him be academically eligible to play this year.

If Moss went to Fran and said something along the lines of, "Coach, I'm struggling in school and could really use the redshirt", I have no problem with it. Otherwise, I'm not a fan of the move. As far as I'm aware Moss still practiced with the team (don't know if he watch game film and travelled with the team), so it's not like it was just go to class and hitting the books.

He won't know what it takes to play in the B1G, and what areas of his game he needs to improve on until he plays B1G games. Moss would be much further along if he played last year. Basketball wise it's a dumb move to redshirt, however, as I said earlier, if he was hinting or telling Fran he needed more time for academics, then I don't have a problem with the move.

 

[RocknRollface]

Maybe he skips his 5th year. RS a big project makes sense, like Olaseni. Guards less so.

Agree, probably a mistake to redshirt him basketball wise but I think grades played a role.

Last years team could have really used him.

 

[hawkfan55]

"He isnt going to WOW anyone with overall athleticism but you dont have to do that to be an effective player."
He wows me.

 

[DewHawk]

I'm in the crowd that is impressed with his athleticism and skills! Made big shots last night when needed.

 

[bowlhawk]

Quite frankly he reminds me just a bit of fellow Chicagoan Ray Thompson but hope he stays for his college duration. He's a very smooth player and has the ability to take over a game.

 

[unoHawkeye]

He isnt going to WOW anyone with overall athleticism but you dont have to do that to be an effective player. He has a good stroke, knows when to drive and doesnt turn the ball over. Lots of upside there.

He also seems to know the difference between a good shot and a bad shot. That is tough to teach.

I remember in one of our first games, he took the ball to the lane and nearly posterized somebody on a dunk attempt. The dunk bounced out, but I haven't questioned Moss' athleticism since. That, and he held his own against a fantastic guard in Morris.

Moss may end up being one of the more complete players we've had under Fran, rivaling only Uthoff and Marble.

 

[unIowa]

Love the way he attacks the rim. Iowa in a little rut in the 2nd half and he says F it and attacks the rim. Had a huge offensive rebound and put back too. Love his game.

The way ISU was playing D someone needed to get to the rim. He is one of the few that can off the bounce.

 

[EastIowaHawk]

I'm happy that Moss took last year to get his studies in order and an extra year of basketball mentoring. He seems like an especially good kid. I'm not talking specifically about Simeon High, but a lot of the inner city public schools in Chicago are akin to third- world countries when it comes to producing students who can graduate from college. One of the worst ever was M.L. King High, which is now closed. About twenty or thirty years ago they were the No. 1 high school basketball team in the U.S. three years straight. They had some amazing players, a few who made it into college, including Wisconsin for a year or two. I'm not sure anybody from King ever graduated from college, and the high school closed its doors because its drop- out rate over four years was well over eighty-five percent. Simeon is much better, but it is a school in which only 22 to 26 percent of students are proficient in math and English and only 3% of students passed an AP test. Fran and Iowa basketball do the right thing by ensuring that certain kids are given the best opportunity possible to achieve success academically while they pursue a challenging D1 sport.

 

[kceasthawk]

So glad to see Moss start to build some success. There were many who thought he'd be one of the players who might leave for greener pastures, and open up a ship. Hope he continues to progress, as I think he's just scratching the surface.

 

[kceasthawk]

Also cudos to Fran for shuffling the deck after Cook's injury. He shook things up, and it seems a player responded to the opportunity!

 

[garberhawkeye]

So...Does this mean he isn't a bust?

That's the narrative this week.

 

[hawk-i bob]

Players don't go to coach and say hey I'm struggling with school & need a redshirt. Mainly because its less than 2 months into the academic school year. I know one of the student services advisor's. Coaches do rely on them for their advice just like they rely on doctors/trainers on injuries.

I have no doubt that any redshirt (including Moss) is much farther ahead in academics having redshirt...and because they are ahead in their academics...they are also much farther ahead athletically. They are because they don't have near the pressure of going to class/homework and trying to practice/game planning & playing having come right after high school.

I know in the case of some redshirts it is not unusual for a player to skip a practice in order to handle school stuff. You cant do that when the true freshman is part of the rotation.

Obviously not everyone needs a redshirt for academic reasons but it certainly has value for those that do.

 

[twindman]

Another advantage for redshirting is they can then take a lighter class load the next 4 years. i.e. take 12 hours instead of 15 per semester. This would be a great benefit to someone that has trouble with classes.

 

[RocknRollface]

He isnt going to WOW anyone with overall athleticism but you dont have to do that to be an effective player. He has a good stroke, knows when to drive and doesnt turn the ball over. Lots of upside there.

He also seems to know the difference between a good shot and a bad shot. That is tough to teach.

Hes not Russell Westbrook but hes probably the most athletic wing Iowas had since Ricky Davis.

 

[RocknRollface]

I'm happy that Moss took last year to get his studies in order and an extra year of basketball mentoring. He seems like an especially good kid. I'm not talking specifically about Simeon High, but a lot of the inner city public schools in Chicago are akin to third- world countries when it comes to producing students who can graduate from college. One of the worst ever was M.L. King High, which is now closed. About twenty or thirty years ago they were the No. 1 high school basketball team in the U.S. three years straight. They had some amazing players, a few who made it into college, including Wisconsin for a year or two. I'm not sure anybody from King ever graduated from college, and the high school closed its doors because its drop- out rate over four years was well over eighty-five percent. Simeon is much better, but it is a school in which only 22 to 26 percent of students are proficient in math and English and only 3% of students passed an AP test. Fran and Iowa basketball do the right thing by ensuring that certain kids are given the best opportunity possible to achieve success academically while they pursue a challenging D1 sport.

That puts some things in perspective.

 

[hawksense]

Meh. Still not a fan of redshirting. In football it makes sense, but makes little sense in basketball.

Not picking, Flyer.

I agree that redshirts shouldn't happen unless it's too obvious (developmental, injury, academics). But you can't get playing time to young, inexperienced players who are learning this level and then say they suck if they don't produce right away. I mean, you can because it's a free country.

We aren't pulling 4-5 star players frequently, so they have to be given some rope. They might suck initially, but they may also eventually be fantastic. The bench ain't no place to learn and I'm guessing they're seeing the floor because the coaches think they need a shot.

Peace

 

[Ronman]

Whether you like the concept of redshirting in basketball or not, I suspect when Moss is a senior, we're going to be glad he didn't spend his freshman season on the bench as it appears Dailey and Kreiner will.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Moss is the first Iowa guard with the ability to finish at the rim in a long time. Maybe he would have been a little more prepared this year if he had played, but he played against Sapp and Mike everyday, which should have taught him a lot. Don't know about his academics, but the redshirt gave him a leg up on keeping ahead of schedule. I am glad that he has 3 more years of eligibility after this year. If Moss keeps working hard, he could be a among the better swing guards in the B1G his last couple of years.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

Not picking, Flyer.

I agree that redshirts shouldn't happen unless it's too obvious (developmental, injury, academics). But you can't get playing time to young, inexperienced players who are learning this level and then say they suck if they don't produce right away. I mean, you can because it's a free country.

We aren't pulling 4-5 star players frequently, so they have to be given some rope. They might suck initially, but they may also eventually be fantastic. The bench ain't no place to learn and I'm guessing they're seeing the floor because the coaches think they need a shot.

Peace

Where did I say Moss sucked? Quite the opposite. The reason I don't like the redshirt is because Moss would have been starting and playing 25+ minutes a game from game 1 without it. Moss should be starting, he's one of the best 5 players on the team. I said Moss would be further along if he didn't redshirt. That's not debatable as game experience is far more beneficial to development than practice.

You say the "bench ain't no place to learn", but what do you think a redshirt is? It's the bench or the stands, whatever you want to call it. I think we are in agreement, at least in part. I want freshmen playing, if they are good enough. I wanted Moss playing last year, spelling AC and MG. Both those guys were often gassed at the end of games because Fran had no one he could put in to give them a rest.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

Moss is the first Iowa guard with the ability to finish at the rim in a long time. Maybe he would have been a little more prepared this year if he had played, but he played against Sapp and Mike everyday, which should have taught him a lot. Don't know about his academics, but the redshirt gave him a leg up on keeping ahead of schedule. I am glad that he has 3 more years of eligibility after this year. If Moss keeps working hard, he could be a among the better swing guards in the B1G his last couple of years.

Sapp and MG were at best avg guards in the B1G. They also both lacked the quickness, handles, that many B1G guards have. You can't simulate the speed, physicality, etc of the B1G in practices, you just can't. Plus, Moss could have given Sapp and MG a breather in games last year. Both those guys were often dragging at the end of games because they played so many minutes. There's a reason very few coaches every redshirt players, non-injury, especially guards.

Moss could blow out a knee next year and the rest of his career could be nothing. He could leave his 5th year and go play for ISU. Who knows what the future holds. Live for the here and now. I'm not a believer in throwing away seasons, as a team, and not a believer in throwing away seasons as a player. Play them now. This is just a personal preference.

 

[Ronman]

Moss ran the scout team last year. It's not like he just sat and watched. I certainly wouldn't call that throwing a season away. All things considered, I would trade a freshman year of mop up minutes for an all Big Ten type senior year.

 

[EduNeerHawk]

Moss is the first Iowa guard with the ability to finish at the rim in a long time. Maybe he would have been a little more prepared this year if he had played, but he played against Sapp and Mike everyday, which should have taught him a lot. Don't know about his academics, but the redshirt gave him a leg up on keeping ahead of schedule. I am glad that he has 3 more years of eligibility after this year. If Moss keeps working hard, he could be a among the better swing guards in the B1G his last couple of years.

Lots of good thoughts about Moss in this thread, especially the info by eastIowa Hawk about ML King and Simeon. Good stuff eastIowa and thanks for posting that. Living here in the Chicagoland area for the last 30 plus years and actually playing in some rec leagues with a player like King's Thomas Hamilton...huge btw ....and watching those public league players like Marcus Liberty and many, many others for Simeon. Oh how I wished Iowa could land just one of those players or two...

Well, Fran did in Moss..... and boy he's got a good one. Thank you Fran.

I remember when this first vid came out later in 2014 on Isaiah and if you could not see the kid's potential, then you need to get basketball quickly.

I know I was a huge fan pimping his abilities, saying just how friggin good he is with either hand getting to the rim and above it....he's a bucket maker and just finds ways to put the ball in the hoop just like he did last night against the clones. You cannot stop this ability. And very much like in the second vid that I saw on Moss in May of 2015...spot on plays in these two vids that we've seen from Isaiah's last two games.

I've been pining for a player(s) like this again for a long time and much like a Roy Marble type or someone else said Ray Thompson which is another great player example...

I watched Moss at PTL a couple of nights this summer and said I am seeing stuff done around the rim attacking it with him, Cook, Williams and Pemsl that I've not seen done in a very long time by Iowa players..... I was very excited and could not wait for this season to get started.

You are seeing it now in the "real" Prime Time, this is not summer league PT either.......it will get better too.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

Moss ran the scout team last year. It's not like he just sat and watched. I certainly wouldn't call that throwing a season away. All things considered, I would trade a freshman year of mop up minutes for an all Big Ten type senior year.

Practice is not the same as game experience. There's not a coach in the country that would trade game experience for practice. There's no guarantee Moss is going to be "all Big Ten type" his senior year. Good grief, he has 1 good game and we are handing him future All Big Ten honors. He could have an AC type senior year, he might transfer to another school, he might blow out a knee. Also, it's not like it's Moss or no one else 4 years from now. That scholarship would be available 4 years from now and who's to say it wouldn't go to a player who's better than Moss, but Iowa can't use it because they tied it up with Moss. There's a reason very few freshman, especially guards, redshirt in basketball. Maybe Iowa should have redshirted Cook, just think how good he could be 4 years from now. No, you play your best players, and don't redshirt them.

 

[BBHawk]

Practice is not the same as game experience. There's not a coach in the country that would trade game experience for practice. There's no guarantee Moss is going to be "all Big Ten type" his senior year. Good grief, he has 1 good game and we are handing him future All Big Ten honors. He could have an AC type senior year, he might transfer to another school, he might blow out a knee. Also, it's not like it's Moss or no one else 4 years from now. That scholarship would be available 4 years from now and who's to say it wouldn't go to a player who's better than Moss, but Iowa can't use it because they tied it up with Moss. There's a reason very few freshman, especially guards, redshirt in basketball. Maybe Iowa should have redshirted Cook, just think how good he could be 4 years from now. No, you play your best players, and don't redshirt them.

Huh? This is discombobulated crap!

 

[EduNeerHawk]

"There's not a coach in the country that would trade game experience for practice. "

Can't really figure out your agenda here PF...not sure if you were one of those guys bitching and moaning about our play and Fran's coaching here early on with some of these losses especially when you make a comment like this one above...

And it's exactly why I've told folks many many times here early on with these newbies blending in with the bit of player experience we have that players need some ROPE or game experience as you are saying.....and not just practice.

The talent is there....and Fran has been doing this a looong time as he said in the post game interview. You gotta trust he knows what he is doing and I do. Especially with the Moss redshirt and IMO....that's an excellent decision for all concerned.... He is only a freshmen with a lot of time and opportunity in an excellent environment to improve his BB skills and equally important to get his college degree. He's already saying how blessed he is....so It's WIN/WIN not meh....

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Sapp and MG were at best avg guards in the B1G. They also both lacked the quickness, handles, that many B1G guards have. You can't simulate the speed, physicality, etc of the B1G in practices, you just can't. Plus, Moss could have given Sapp and MG a breather in games last year. Both those guys were often dragging at the end of games because they played so many minutes. There's a reason very few coaches every redshirt players, non-injury, especially guards.

Moss could blow out a knee next year and the rest of his career could be nothing. He could leave his 5th year and go play for ISU. Who knows what the future holds. Live for the here and now. I'm not a believer in throwing away seasons, as a team, and not a believer in throwing away seasons as a player. Play them now. This is just a personal preference.

Man, once you get on something, you don't let it go. Keep telling yourself that MG was "at best an avg guard in the B1G". I guess the Hawks were just lucky to be winning during his tenure as Iowa's starting PG. Moss might have been playing against the best pair of defensive guards in the league. Did you attend practices?(and no one wants to relive this debate with you)

I'm not usually a big fan of redshirting, but it seems to have been a mutual decision that Moss agreed with. You and I have no idea exactly why he chose to redshirt.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

All you have to do is ask yourself this, would Moss have played last year? Not very much considering we had three seniors, a junior, and a few other freshmen that didn't play much all at the guard spots. Probably less than Olaseni played his first year. Would you have loved to have Gabe one more year? I think we all would say absolutely. That's why you redshirt when you have the capability in a position that is already stocked with upperclassmen. Moss probably wasn't winning us any games that we lost last year and we may have run the risk of losing him academically if he played. He came in behind the 8 ball already by missing all of the summer workouts and classes. It wouldn't surprise me to see us redshirt one of the incoming post players next year too.

 

[lovedwatchingLester]

Last season Moss was nearly the same size as Dailey is now. That red shirt year helped get him ready physically much more than just getting him acclimated to college life and understanding the offense . Be happy for him now that he is here and playing for the Iowa Hawkeyes for 3 more years after this one. We will have a nice core of players going forward and I'm going to love watching the process.

 

[IamHawkeye]

Practice is not the same as game experience. There's not a coach in the country that would trade game experience for practice. There's no guarantee Moss is going to be "all Big Ten type" his senior year. Good grief, he has 1 good game and we are handing him future All Big Ten honors. He could have an AC type senior year, he might transfer to another school, he might blow out a knee. Also, it's not like it's Moss or no one else 4 years from now. That scholarship would be available 4 years from now and who's to say it wouldn't go to a player who's better than Moss, but Iowa can't use it because they tied it up with Moss. There's a reason very few freshman, especially guards, redshirt in basketball. Maybe Iowa should have redshirted Cook, just think how good he could be 4 years from now. No, you play your best players, and don't redshirt them.

Well, Iowa is a college and the last time I knew the players are students. What's good for the team is not always what is good for the individual player student-wise. That is unless we think we are like Ky, and only its walk-ons are probably working for a degree.

 

[Ronman]

Gee, you seemed determined to blow out Isaiah's knee. How many have we had here during McCaffery's tenure?

We'll just have to disagree on the redshirting position. Frankly, the only time I don't redshirt a freshman who has got good players stacked at his position ahead of him, is if you get a kid on campus and you find he really isn't going to be able to contribute ever. Then you try to pass him through the system as quickly as possible.

 

[DanL53]

Not to change the subject, but if I can interject one thing. Our young guys develop at different paces. We've seen several players who, if we could go back and play these ten games over, would see way more success. Likewise, don't give up on Williams, Kriener, others. Remember, just a week ago we were full of no talent bums....according to some. That perspective isn't worth continuing now. And shouldn't be for any of the young guys. Cripes, even Uhl played solid defense against Iowa State and sure looked like a contributor to me.

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

Moss has brought great new life to the position. Athletic, powerful motor, excellent off the floor, can finish the and one. Hopefully he can hit enough three balls to keep the defense vulnerable to his penetration skills. Three or four year starter if he doesn't go early (and it's way to early to tell on that front). He should watch P Jok's tape because that is what we're hoping to get from him next season. Very enthused.

 

[DanL53]

If anyone, including Moss and Cook, is even halfway contemplating leaving early, they need a good knock on the noggin'. Look at the guys who went early from the Big Ten the last few years. Few and far between and many ended up in Europe.

What we have, are mostly a bunch of athletes who if they had developed skills way earlier we'd have been fighting the likes of Mich St., or worse the Kansas and North Carolina's for 'em. Mostly, we got in early and earned their commitment by the butt busting travel to attend any time they played anywhere.

But, the Cooks and Mosses and even Wagner and Williams and Kriener, came in needing to develop skills. When that happens and we see games like Iowa State? Repeatedly? At that time it might make for some thought about what their future holds.

Frankly, and just my perspective, I have not understood how some posters have been quick to judge our young guys. And I do mean the one's heading up now, and he ones looking to catch the next wave. I'll bet a dollar to a glazed donut that after UNI we'll be talking about different guys who looked great. And some we are thrilled about will take a step back. Nature of the game and freshmen, or inexperienced guys, just getting used to it.

 

[iowa surfer]

We're going to be very happy that Moss redshirted last year. You can see the improvement just from game 1 through game 10 tonight. We've got 3.5 more years of him. At that point he'll be a 22-23 year old senior, aka a fully grown man on the court, with Pemsl and Cook in their fourth year out there with him too. Not to mention everybody else coming in over the next few years.

Fran is NOW GETTING PLAYERS.LICK AND ALFORD HURT MUCH.HAWKS GOOD PLACE TO COME.GOT 2 OF 3 BIGS THEY WANTED THIS YEAR.OVERLOOKED? AND COOK.TEAM IS GOING TO BE HAWK TOUGH! FUN TO SAY THAT.GO HAWKS

 

[PhantomFlyer]

"There's not a coach in the country that would trade game experience for practice. "

Can't really figure out your agenda here PF...not sure if you were one of those guys bitching and moaning about our play and Fran's coaching here early on with some of these losses especially when you make a comment like this one above...

And it's exactly why I've told folks many many times here early on with these newbies blending in with the bit of player experience we have that players need some ROPE or game experience as you are saying.....and not just practice.

The talent is there....and Fran has been doing this a looong time as he said in the post game interview. You gotta trust he knows what he is doing and I do. Especially with the Moss redshirt and IMO....that's an excellent decision for all concerned.... He is only a freshmen with a lot of time and opportunity in an excellent environment to improve his BB skills and equally important to get his college degree. He's already saying how blessed he is....so It's WIN/WIN not meh....

So, you are making a logical fallacy by arguing from authority.

I've said it is a personal preference of mine, which if look around is shared by most college coaches, as very few freshmen are redshirted. Do you not agree?

I've also stated if Moss went to Fran and said he needed the redshirt to adjust academically then I have no problem with the move. Nothing I've written should be the least bit controversial. I disagree with the redshirting of freshman, except in very rare instances, and because some people detest critical thinking they throw a hissy fit. I can see arguments for doing it, I just don't think they are strong arguments. A difference of opinion, no need for you to get upset.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

Man, once you get on something, you don't let it go. Keep telling yourself that MG was "at best an avg guard in the B1G". I guess the Hawks were just lucky to be winning during his tenure as Iowa's starting PG. Moss might have been playing against the best pair of defensive guards in the league. Did you attend practices?(and no one wants to relive this debate with you)

I'm not usually a big fan of redshirting, but it seems to have been a mutual decision that Moss agreed with. You and I have no idea exactly why he chose to redshirt.

Because I deal in the world of Realville, not a shill. He was an avg PG in the B1G. Do you really want to go over this area again since we've been over it a dozen times. You think he was an above avg or elite PG, I disagree. I have cited statistical evidence to support my case you've injected emotional arguments to make yours. Fine, we disagree. Let it go.

"You and I have no idea exactly why he chose to redshirt"

Ding, ding, ding. Finally, you stumbled into a truthful comment. Congratulations. So, why are you, or at least some here, are claiming to know why Moss was redshirted. Finally, if you stop knee jerking, like a shill, you'd realized I've stated several times that if Moss went to Fran and asked for the redshirt (say for academic reasons), I have no problem with the redshirt. What part, about my qualifier, went over your head?