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Moss is the man!

All you have to do is ask yourself this, would Moss have played last year? Not very much considering we had three seniors, a junior, and a few other freshmen that didn't play much all at the guard spots. Probably less than Olaseni played his first year. Would you have loved to have Gabe one more year? I think we all would say absolutely. That's why you redshirt when you have the capability in a position that is already stocked with upperclassmen. Moss probably wasn't winning us any games that we lost last year and we may have run the risk of losing him academically if he played. He came in behind the 8 ball already by missing all of the summer workouts and classes. It wouldn't surprise me to see us redshirt one of the incoming post players next year too.
Moss could have easily played 10-12 minutes a game which would have been very valuable experience for him. Weren't many of the same people claiming the Moss redshirt was great, also saying playing Williams was great because he was getting important experience? How many minutes did Williams play? Moss is a far better player than Williams.

Moss would have went into last spring and summer knowing what areas of his game he needed to work on to compete in the B1G. You can't simulate that in practice. He won't truly know until he's finished this season.

Since people seem to ignore what I write, I'll state it for the 12th time here: If Moss went to Fran and asked for the redshirt to adjust to college life/school, then I have no problem with the move. Even if the move was engineered by Fran, nothing I've written suggests this is a disastrous decision or Fran should be taken out to the woodshed for making it. Good lord, we have a lot of sensitive people on this board (and I'm not calling you one). Argument from authority is the argument shills make, not critical thinkers. I disagree with redshirting freshman, except in very rare circumstances, and I've explained why. My position is hardly extreme, as very few coaches redshirt freshmen, especially guards. The argument for redshirting a big man is a little stronger because then we are getting into more of the argument used for redshirting freshmen football players.
 
Last season Moss was nearly the same size as Dailey is now. That red shirt year helped get him ready physically much more than just getting him acclimated to college life and understanding the offense . Be happy for him now that he is here and playing for the Iowa Hawkeyes for 3 more years after this one. We will have a nice core of players going forward and I'm going to love watching the process.
I'm very happy for Moss, and have not written one word to the contrary. I disagree with the decision to redshirt, unless it was initiated by Moss. My opinion is hardly controversial on redshirts except on this board. All one has to do is look at the number of coaches who redshirt players or the number of freshmen players redshirted.
 
Gee, you seemed determined to blow out Isaiah's knee. How many have we had here during McCaffery's tenure?

We'll just have to disagree on the redshirting position. Frankly, the only time I don't redshirt a freshman who has got good players stacked at his position ahead of him, is if you get a kid on campus and you find he really isn't going to be able to contribute ever. Then you try to pass him through the system as quickly as possible.
Stacked? I guess that's why MG and AC played so many minutes even when they were dragging from fatigue. You just "liked" The Sleeping Dog's comment above and here's what he said, "Moss has brought great new life to the position. Athletic, powerful motor, excellent off the floor, can finish the and one." Buy hey, Iowa was "stacked" at that position last years and couldn't have used that new life or skills that Iowa's other guards lacked. LOL.

Oh, good grief, now you are just making ridiculous point. I don't want Moss to blow a knee but it can happen. I know you have trouble imagining this could happen in the future, so how about looking at the present? Dale Jones ring a bell?

LOL. You must have been pissed then that Williams wasn't redshirted. Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue. My position is so radical that 99% of the coaches agree with me and 1% agree with you.
 
Players don't go to coach and say hey I'm struggling with school & need a redshirt. Mainly because its less than 2 months into the academic school year. I know one of the student services advisor's. Coaches do rely on them for their advice just like they rely on doctors/trainers on injuries.

I have no doubt that any redshirt (including Moss) is much farther ahead in academics having redshirt...and because they are ahead in their academics...they are also much farther ahead athletically. They are because they don't have near the pressure of going to class/homework and trying to practice/game planning & playing having come right after high school.

I know in the case of some redshirts it is not unusual for a player to skip a practice in order to handle school stuff. You cant do that when the true freshman is part of the rotation.

Obviously not everyone needs a redshirt for academic reasons but it certainly has value for those that do.
Bullhockey, it wasn't unusual for Bob Knight to do this at Indiana. It's no different than a player tweaks an ankle and has to miss a practice (or a few of them). Knight would also keep players out if they were missing classes. There were even instances of players who wouldn't travel with the team if they were struggling in classes. These were all players who were in the rotation, so you don't know what you are talking about. Oh, and it's not like Knight didn't win a lot of games.

Neither one of us knows if Moss was struggling in school, how the redshirt discussion between Fran and Moss went down, or what the reason for the redshirt was. It's all speculation since we weren't in that meeting, aren't coaches, aren't players on the team.
 
My personal preference is to not red shirt freshman as well. Unless of course if it makes sense. In this case it did. In my opinion Moss needed the year to develop physically and academically. Your contention is Moss could have easily played a great deal last year, my opinion is that he wouldn't have and it would have been a waste of a year of eligibility. Fran had hitched his wagon the way he hitched his wagon. Your repeated cautions about blowing a knee is true but using your logic he could get hit by a car, grades, bad weather, etc. nobody knows tomorrow or is promised tomorrow.
 
My personal preference is to not red shirt freshman as well. Unless of course if it makes sense. In this case it did. In my opinion Moss needed the year to develop physically and academically. Your contention is Moss could have easily played a great deal last year, my opinion is that he wouldn't have and it would have been a waste of a year of eligibility. Fran had hitched his wagon the way he hitched his wagon. Your repeated cautions about blowing a knee is true but using your logic he could get hit by a car, grades, bad weather, etc. nobody knows tomorrow or is promised tomorrow.
Every kid could use a year to develop physically so I don't consider this a strong justification redshirt. Ditto for academics, unless they are really struggling to pass their classes.

Is 10-12 minutes a game, "a great deal"? So, based on your criteria Fran really screwed the pooch by not redshirting Williams last year. Were you claiming this was a bad "non-redshirt" last season? If you were, then you were in the minority, because most of the same people bitching at me were cheering the playing of Williams, saying it was invaluable experience and he'd be more ready to play this season. I just love the hypocrisy of posters.

Bad weather? Huh. What is more likely to happen, him getting an injury which hurts his play or him getting hit by a car where he can't play again? Think Dale Jones. By playing Moss last year he gets acclimated to the B1G, understands what it takes to win in the B1G, and understands what areas of his game he needs to improve to play in the B1G. This is not the least bit controversial. Every single coach in college basketball will agree with what I've just written.

If this was such a great strategy then why do so few coaches redshirt freshmen? Why are there so few freshmen redshirted? Coaches are paid lots of money to win games, so if your "redshirt them if they don't play a great deal" philosophy was the key to winning games, then why don't more adopt this strategy? Either the coaches are really stupid or they don't care about keeping their job.
 
So, you are making a logical fallacy by arguing from authority.

I've said it is a personal preference of mine, which if look around is shared by most college coaches, as very few freshmen are redshirted. Do you not agree?

I've also stated if Moss went to Fran and said he needed the redshirt to adjust academically then I have no problem with the move. Nothing I've written should be the least bit controversial. I disagree with the redshirting of freshman, except in very rare instances, and because some people detest critical thinking they throw a hissy fit. I can see arguments for doing it, I just don't think they are strong arguments. A difference of opinion, no need for you to get upset.

AGAIN....Moss never went to Fran and said "coach I need to redshirt to adjust academically"....didn't happen...
 
AGAIN....Moss never went to Fran and said "coach I need to redshirt to adjust academically"....didn't happen...
AGAIN....You don't know how it went down, so stop acting like you do (you weren't in the meeting with Moss and Fran). It probably didn't go down that way, and I NEVER said it did.

You and your brother are two peas in a pod.
 
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Every kid could use a year to develop physically so I don't consider this a strong justification redshirt. Ditto for academics, unless they are really struggling to pass their classes.

Is 10-12 minutes a game, "a great deal"? So, based on your criteria Fran really screwed the pooch by not redshirting Williams last year. Were you claiming this was a bad "non-redshirt" last season? If you were, then you were in the minority, because most of the same people bitching at me were cheering the playing of Williams, saying it was invaluable experience and he'd be more ready to play this season. I just love the hypocrisy of posters.

Bad weather? Huh. What is more likely to happen, him getting an injury which hurts his play or him getting hit by a car where he can't play again? Think Dale Jones. By playing Moss last year he gets acclimated to the B1G, understands what it takes to win in the B1G, and understands what areas of his game he needs to improve to play in the B1G. This is not the least bit controversial. Every single coach in college basketball will agree with what I've just written.

If this was such a great strategy then why do so few coaches redshirt freshmen? Why are there so few freshmen redshirted? Coaches are paid lots of money to win games, so if your "redshirt them if they don't play a great deal" philosophy was the key to winning games, then why don't more adopt this strategy? Either the coaches are really stupid or they don't care about keeping their job.

I stated an opinion, we disagree, quit being so sensitive. I have enjoyed reading you go on both sides of issues, using 99% of coaches then using Dale Jones as an example(he falls in the 1%), if you can let me know how many kids in the rotation Bob Knight held out from traveling due to academics, you can't because it was unusual and you weren't part of the conversation. I think we can agree that Knight was unique in his coaching methods, once again you use the 99% of coaches schtik on one front then select a unique situation to demonstrate your point. Hardly critical thinking on your part. Kids develop at different paces both physically and academically. I started playing college athletics at 17 and would have liked another year to develop but I was good enough to play, I was a far better player at 21 then I was at 17. Fran/Moss agreed to a redshirt. To declare it a bust/success at this stage is premature. Unless you have insights you haven't shared we can just agree to disagree.
 
AGAIN....You don't know how it went down, so stop acting like you do (you weren't in the meeting with Moss and Fran). It probably didn't go down that way, and I NEVER said it did.

You and your brother are two peas in a pod.

In case anyone is unaware, that was meant as an insult to hawk-i-bob. I've had PhantomFlyer on ignore for months but noticing the one side of a running commentary on this thread, I was curious as to who was making an a$$ of himself. I should have known. :) Still, I didn't post as I've been, again, for months, not communicating with PhantomFlyer or even reading his posts as it just ends up in another passive-aggressive argument between us.

So much for the ignore button and I'm sure Phantom would be happy if I just said, screw it, and stopped posting.

My point to this is that the insults from PH never stop. For those sick and tired of it, there's a little button called "report" that I would encourage people to use. We JUST BEAT Iowa State for crying out loud! I swear, when he can't complain about the team, Phantom turns his attention to complaining about posters.

And Phantom, yes Bob does have a little more info than you on this subject. Moss did not go to Fran and ask for the redshirt. Just like with all new guys, Fran sat down with Moss when he arrived on campus and options were discussed.

1) Moss had just made up some classwork in high school in the summer, while our other guys were hitting the weights, playing in the PTL, having some scrimmages and practice time, and attending summer courses to get a head start on schoolwork. A VERY good idea by the way, as Iowa players take actual classes.

2) The reason Moss was behind in high school was due to some coursework difficulty when he transferred to Simeon. He is an intelligent kid, the transfer put him slightly behind. Some folks may recall speculation the weeks prior to his commitment that he couldn't pass an ACT. Beyond being unquestionably racist stereotyping at the time, it proved to be, as is often the case, unfounded rumors.

3) No one redshirts unless they agree to the idea. And I know you, Phantom, don't bother to believe anything anyone says, and you aren't worth my effort to look up and provide links, but Fran doesn't force redshirts. So getting back to the point. Fran spoke with Moss and a mutual decision was made that it would benefit Isaiah to redshirt last season. Academically AND by preserving a year to play college ball, yes, even if it means he goes to graduate school somewhere else.

And, think about that, Phantom, "Even if it means he goes to graduate school somewhere else." You see, it isn't all about what's best for Iowa "winning" games. It's about what's best for the players. And you are darn right! Iowa is indeed different than many, though not the numbers you suggest, schools. We do things the right way.

Last thing. You really don't know the kind of folks that might be giving a little info to Bob now and then. Or me, for that matter. And this will never happen but, take my word for it, you ARE making an a$$ of yourself here. Moss didn't go to Fran and ask to be redshirted because classes were too hard for him. There was a strategy session, as Fran does with all the players (I know I said this, but you tend to repeat things so I thought maybe it's how you absorb stuff as well.) and it left the ultimate choice up to Fran with Isaiah's agreement that Fran would decide based on what was best for Isaiah. Again, what was best for Isaiah, not what was the quickest way to win a game or two.
 
Moss redshirted and that is not going to change. He and the coaches thought it was best for him, and none of us know why or what discussions occurred. We should be happy that he seems to have a great attitude, is ready contribute, and is making the team better. The upside is that he could be a Hawk three more years and he seems to be improving each game. The outlook for our back court has gone from chicken little to real optimism. No reason to read anything negative into the redshirt decision or how Moss is performing.
 
Bob, don't you get tired of trying to pass on a little info, without outing people who were nice enough to give it to you? I think you should stick to private messages and just let the boards go on figuring things out with hindsight and guesswork. I've pretty much curtailed passing on the little that I hear about. The last time was when I knew for a fact Hoiberg was leaving Iowa State while even most Clone fans were still in denial.

And you know I've had a few things I could have brought up since then. But, it just isn't worth it. Heck, I was hounded for just posting my guesswork about the 2015 class. So much so that I didn't bother doing it with the 2016 guys. But, I'm going to try not to open up ignored messages just to see why people are arguing with someone. Finding a smart remark about me so many months later? What the heck kind of place is this? :mad: Someone needs to moderate a little better. And that goes for all the Clones who troll as well. If this were PEEGS, much of this crud wouldn't be going on.
 
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AGAIN....You don't know how it went down, so stop acting like you do (you weren't in the meeting with Moss and Fran). It probably didn't go down that way, and I NEVER said it did.

You and your brother are two peas in a pod.


you are correct I was not in any meeting between Moss or Fran..never said I was...but I know who was involved and I don't care whether you believe it or not.

In the end Isaiah Moss redshirting ended up being the best thing for him as well as the program. So you can attack me or my brother ...doesn't matter.
 
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RS big guys or development projects, plug and play guards.

It seems like it might work out to have RS'ed Moss. However, there was risk of increased likelihood of transfer (think of Marcellus Summerville) or there maybe a year in his career where he is injured or academically has to sit out, or he might leave early.

It Seems like Moss would have helped last year, but Fran is stubborn and might not have played him much with his two senior guards.
 
Bob, don't you get tired of trying to pass on a little info, without outing people who were nice enough to give it to you? I think you should stick to private messages and just let the boards go on figuring things out with hindsight and guesswork. I've pretty much curtailed passing on the little that I hear about. The last time was when I knew for a fact Hoiberg was leaving Iowa State while even most Clone fans were still in denial.

And you know I've had a few things I could have brought up since then. But, it just isn't worth it. Heck, I was hounded for just posting my guesswork about the 2015 class. So much so that I didn't bother doing it with the 2016 guys. But, I'm going to try not to open up ignored messages just to see why people are arguing with someone. Finding a smart remark about me so many months later? What the heck kind of place is this? :mad: Someone needs to moderate a little better. And that goes for all the Clones who troll as well. If this were PEEGS, much of this crud wouldn't be going on.

I worked with a student services advisor a few years...so ya I discussed procedures...in the end Iowa does a great job with their student athletes when it comes to school. That's all that matters. I think our grad rates reflect it.

Yes I do not and actually cannot post info (recruiting for example) because ...well you know why. So it is what it is...its probably best that way anyway.
 
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I worked with a student services advisor a few years...so ya I discussed procedures...in the end Iowa does a great job with their student athletes when it comes to school. That's all that matters. I think our grad rates reflect it.

Yes I do not and actually cannot post info (recruiting for example) because ...well you know why. So it is what it is...its probably best that way anyway.

Yeah, I should be clear about that, you DO NOT talk about recruiting info. Nor about any personal info about a player that you may know about. And I don't either. So no one, even if they happen to be from the Quad Cities and it's close and they have a grudge, needs to go to any person anywhere and make a claim that you, or I, are rat finks who can't keep our mouth shut. :) And I begin to believe someone might have been trying to instigate you into saying too much, so they could run and tell.

So to be clear. Bob and I know nothing. We speculate. Phantom is right, we don't know jack s..t!
 
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Wow, that was exhausting to read. Who would have known that redshirting is such a bad thing?
I'm not going to get in this pissing match about redshirting.
I will say that it appears Moss has benefited from it. I remember Fran talking about that Moss
had some academics issues to clean up last summer.
Thanks Dan for clearing that up. I really never knew the full story on Moss.

I think Moss is the real deal. He has skills from the two guard position that we haven't had since Ricky Davis.
He's silky smooth and his drive to the rim where he switched hands to his left was ridiculous!
I'm looking forward to watching this young man grow and I think he has the potential to be a All Big Ten type
of player.
 
you are correct I was not in any meeting between Moss or Fran..never said I was...but I know who was involved and I don't care whether you believe it or not.

In the end Isaiah Moss redshirting ended up being the best thing for him as well as the program. So you can attack me or my brother ...doesn't matter.
How am I attacking you? You said authoritatively that Moss didn't go to Fran and ask to be redshirted because he was struggling with school. How would you know this if you weren't in the meeting? Now, you seem to be backtracking, is this because you've inadvertently spilled beans on information you have no right to know? You are trying to have it both ways. My suspicion, since you brought up the adviser out of the blue, is you know something that could get someone fired, if it became public, because they told you something they shouldn't have told you.

How would you know who was involved in the discussion unless someone involved in the meeting told you? If that is the case they are making a serious ethical violation by telling you and should be fired. So, are you claiming someone involved in the meeting told you this and did they also tell you what was said. Please, provide us with name(s) of this person(s), for this should be reported to UI officials and these people(s) should face disciplinary action. I'm assuming the person involved is the adviser you were crowing about knowing in a previous post. Have you reported this violation to UI officials?

Thanks for the discussion because it's been very enlightening. Either you are hanging around very unethical people or you are just blowing hot air. I'm not sure which one it is but I have my suspicions.
 
I stated an opinion, we disagree, quit being so sensitive. I have enjoyed reading you go on both sides of issues, using 99% of coaches then using Dale Jones as an example(he falls in the 1%), if you can let me know how many kids in the rotation Bob Knight held out from traveling due to academics, you can't because it was unusual and you weren't part of the conversation. I think we can agree that Knight was unique in his coaching methods, once again you use the 99% of coaches schtik on one front then select a unique situation to demonstrate your point. Hardly critical thinking on your part. Kids develop at different paces both physically and academically. I started playing college athletics at 17 and would have liked another year to develop but I was good enough to play, I was a far better player at 21 then I was at 17. Fran/Moss agreed to a redshirt. To declare it a bust/success at this stage is premature. Unless you have insights you haven't shared we can just agree to disagree.
Who's being sensitive? I stated a personal preference and several of you guys got your noses out of joint. Learn to read. I haven't taken both sides of the issue. Injuries are a valid reason to redshirt, I've never claimed otherwise. I've said redshirting big guys (I used Olesani as an example) can sometimes be justified to redshirt. I've said if academics were a problem, and the student agreed, then a redshirt can be justified. I don't like redshirting players, especially guards, for basketball reasons.

Dude, Knight didn't recruit a lot of academic problems, so obviously he's not going to have a lot of players held out for academic reasons. What a stupid argument. If this was critical thinking on your part, god help you.

Of great, now you are citing personal experience to prove a general point. Do I really need to address the logical fallacy of this reasoning.

"To declare it a bust/success at this stage is premature."

LOL. Please provide the quote where I've said this or even suggested this. I'm saying I think it's a bad idea (again, why do most coaches not redshirt freshmen?). I think Moss would have helped last year and would be a better player this year. AGAIN, it's a personal preference on my part, and one which 99% of coaches agree with me so my position is hardly radical/extreme. Please reread that last line so you don't misstate my position.

One last thing. Yes or no, do you think it was a mistake for Fran not to redshirt Williams last year?
 
Moss redshirted and that is not going to change. He and the coaches thought it was best for him, and none of us know why or what discussions occurred. We should be happy that he seems to have a great attitude, is ready contribute, and is making the team better. The upside is that he could be a Hawk three more years and he seems to be improving each game. The outlook for our back court has gone from chicken little to real optimism. No reason to read anything negative into the redshirt decision or how Moss is performing.
Now, this I can wholeheartedly agree with.
 
Wow, that was exhausting to read. Who would have known that redshirting is such a bad thing?
I'm not going to get in this pissing match about redshirting.
I will say that it appears Moss has benefited from it. I remember Fran talking about that Moss
had some academics issues to clean up last summer.
Thanks Dan for clearing that up. I really never knew the full story on Moss.

I think Moss is the real deal. He has skills from the two guard position that we haven't had since Ricky Davis.
He's silky smooth and his drive to the rim where he switched hands to his left was ridiculous!
I'm looking forward to watching this young man grow and I think he has the potential to be a All Big Ten type
of player.
No one has claimed redshirting is a "bad thing". Good grief, to continually have to explain this is exhausting. It's just a personal preference, that's all. We don't know if it benefitted Moss or not because unless we can run as the Flash and turn back time (creating Flashpoint) we don't know what Moss would look like as a player today if he didn't redshirt. He's likely a better player today, in both scenarios, than he was last year. As for academics, I don't the specifics of his case (only his teachers, advisors, Fran and Moss would know this), so it's quite possible the redshirt helped him adjust to school.

I'm very excited about him as a player and hope he continues to grow in his game and helps Iowa win lots of games. I would hope all of us would agree with this.
 
These guys have tutors and every academic advantage a student can have. If the kid is such an academic risk then you have to wonder why Fran recruited him in the first place. Fran knew he needed experienced bodies this year as so many players were graduating.

Don't underestimate the poor quality of Chicago public schools. Or many other school systems for that matter. Sometimes kids come out of high school light years apart academically.
 
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How am I attacking you? You said authoritatively that Moss didn't go to Fran and ask to be redshirted because he was struggling with school. How would you know this if you weren't in the meeting? Now, you seem to be backtracking, is this because you've inadvertently spilled beans on information you have no right to know? You are trying to have it both ways. My suspicion, since you brought up the adviser out of the blue, is you know something that could get someone fired, if it became public, because they told you something they shouldn't have told you.

How would you know who was involved in the discussion unless someone involved in the meeting told you? If that is the case they are making a serious ethical violation by telling you and should be fired. So, are you claiming someone involved in the meeting told you this and did they also tell you what was said. Please, provide us with name(s) of this person(s), for this should be reported to UI officials and these peopleYou don't know how it went down, so stop acting like you do(s) should face disciplinary action. I'm assuming the person involved is the adviser you were crowing about knowing in a previous post. Have you reported this violation to UI officials?

Thanks for the discussion because it's been very enlightening. Either you are hanging around very unethical people or you are just blowing hot air. I'm not sure which one it is but I have my suspicions.

first who said anything about a meeting...oh that's right you did.
I brought up the academic advisor because you basically called me a liar...you now claim I am acting..
that is indeed a personal attack...you should be banned but seems that apparently is allowed.

I'm not going to provide you with the name of the person I'm known since 2002..are you kidding me...you are the LAST one I would give that to.

But I am getting sick & tired of being accused of blowing hot air with a claim of acting.
Stop.
 
Who's being sensitive? I stated a personal preference and several of you guys got your noses out of joint. Learn to read. I haven't taken both sides of the issue. Injuries are a valid reason to redshirt, I've never claimed otherwise. I've said redshirting big guys (I used Olesani as an example) can sometimes be justified to redshirt. I've said if academics were a problem, and the student agreed, then a redshirt can be justified. I don't like redshirting players, especially guards, for basketball reasons.

Dude, Knight didn't recruit a lot of academic problems, so obviously he's not going to have a lot of players held out for academic reasons. What a stupid argument. If this was critical thinking on your part, god help you.

Of great, now you are citing personal experience to prove a general point. Do I really need to address the logical fallacy of this reasoning.

"To declare it a bust/success at this stage is premature."

LOL. Please provide the quote where I've said this or even suggested this. I'm saying I think it's a bad idea (again, why do most coaches not redshirt freshmen?). I think Moss would have helped last year and would be a better player this year. AGAIN, it's a personal preference on my part, and one which 99% of coaches agree with me so my position is hardly radical/extreme. Please reread that last line so you don't misstate my position.

One last thing. Yes or no, do you think it was a mistake for Fran not to redshirt Williams last year?
Why do you keep trying to compare Moss and Williams? There are a lot of variables that go into redshirting a player. Most of the time it doesn't make sense but that doesn't mean coaches are against it. Fran needed some idea of what he had at PG coming into this year and Williams was on campus right away last year so it's easy to see why the decision was made to not redshirt him.
 
The least of my concerns is Isaiah Moss leaving school early. It's happened once in the history of Iowa Basketball I believe (Ricky Davis), and Moss isn't Ricky Davis. Frankly I think it's ridiculous to even mention it. The History of the program suggests it's highly unlikely. Powerball like unlikely. Anyway...................

Redshirting, not redshirting, don't care. Last year he didn't play, this year and following he's playing.

In a small sample size, one thing he does appear to have is "it". Right now he's a decent player on an average team, nothing really more than that. But he does appear to possess some natural skills others don't, that's a good thing. As long as the "it" factor remains (which is likely if he stays healthy) and his game improves over time as many do, he's going to be a real good player for Iowa. We need real good players. Keep it up young man.
 
Dan, knock it off. I've had you on ignore but you keep this garbage up and we'll have to get Tom K. involved.

You are right! I just reported this thread for you!! But don't worry, you win. Two years of this garbage and you bringing me up when I haven't even read your posts in months!?!? I'm done here. You win.
 
Stacked?
I know you have trouble imagining this could happen in the future, so how about looking at the present? Dale Jones ring a bell?

LOL. You must have been pissed then that Williams wasn't redshirted. Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue. My position is so radical that 99% of the coaches agree with me and 1% agree with you.

First of all, jones arrived at Iowa with a history of knee problems

Secondly, that 99% stat smells so badly, it is obvious where you pulled it out of.
 
first who said anything about a meeting...oh that's right you did.
I brought up the academic advisor because you basically called me a liar...you now claim I am acting..
that is indeed a personal attack...you should be banned but seems that apparently is allowed.

I'm not going to provide you with the name of the person I'm known since 2002..are you kidding me...you are the LAST one I would give that to.

But I am getting sick & tired of being accused of blowing hot air with a claim of acting.
Stop.
"AGAIN....Moss never went to Fran and said "coach I need to redshirt to adjust academically"....didn't happen... "

"you are correct I was not in any meeting between Moss or Fran..never said I was...but I know who was involved and I don't care whether you believe it or not."


There's no qualifiers in those statements, those are affirmative statements YOU made. If you know Moss didn't go to Fran and who "was involved", how do you know? That's no a complicated question. You didn't say, "I think this is how it went down" or this is your opinion. So, either you are backtracking and claiming it's just your personal opinion based on no facts pertaining to the Moss situation, or you are standing by those statements. There was no personal attack on my part. I'm quoting you and asking for you to respond to how you came to these affirmative statements.

Oh, btw, do you think Fran didn't have "a meeting" with Moss (and maybe others) to discuss the situation and whether or not to redshirt? Good grief, called it whatever you want - a party, a get together, a shindig, etc.
 
First of all, jones arrived at Iowa with a history of knee problems

Secondly, that 99% stat smells so badly, it is obvious where you pulled it out of.
The 99% comment is just to make a point, that a large majority of coaches don't redshirt guards, who aren't injured or academic reasons. If you think the 99% is way off then please tell me what the correct number is.
 
Why do you keep trying to compare Moss and Williams? There are a lot of variables that go into redshirting a player. Most of the time it doesn't make sense but that doesn't mean coaches are against it. Fran needed some idea of what he had at PG coming into this year and Williams was on campus right away last year so it's easy to see why the decision was made to not redshirt him.
I've compared them because in this thread several posters have used the amount of playing time Moss would have received last year as a justification for redshirting Moss. If that's the case, then logic dictates you should be upset Williams wasn't redshirted also. I'm just looking for a little intellectual honesty, that's all.
 
The 99% comment is just to make a point, that a large majority of coaches don't redshirt guards, who aren't injured or academic reasons. If you think the 99% is way off then please tell me what the correct number is.
Lol, phantom is such a dumb****. Let me pull a stat out of my ass and then tell YOU to prove me wrong. What an odd thing to get worked up about. We get Moss for 3 more years phantom, this is great.
 
"AGAIN....Moss never went to Fran and said "coach I need to redshirt to adjust academically"....didn't happen... "

"you are correct I was not in any meeting between Moss or Fran..never said I was...but I know who was involved and I don't care whether you believe it or not."


There's no qualifiers in those statements, those are affirmative statements YOU made. If you know Moss didn't go to Fran and who "was involved", how do you know? That's no a complicated question. You didn't say, "I think this is how it went down" or this is your opinion. So, either you are backtracking and claiming it's just your personal opinion based on no facts pertaining to the Moss situation, or you are standing by those statements. There was no personal attack on my part. I'm quoting you and asking for you to respond to how you came to these affirmative statements.

Oh, btw, do you think Fran didn't have "a meeting" with Moss (and maybe others) to discuss the situation and whether or not to redshirt? Good grief, called it whatever you want - a party, a get together, a shindig, etc.

jesus...stop...you obviously are hell bent trying to prove that I am blowing hot air and acting..backtracking. Doing that is not going to get me (or badger me) to tell you how I came to these "affirmative statements".

So here...I'm full of hot air and acting when I say that Moss did not go to coach and say I need to redshirt to adjust academically.

Happy?
 
Lol, phantom is such a dumb****. Let me pull a stat out of my ass and then tell YOU to prove me wrong. What an odd thing to get worked up about. We get Moss for 3 more years phantom, this is great.
Sigh. It's called hyperbole, lots of people use it. I used it to make the point that my position on redshirting is hardly an extreme one among college coaches. True or false?

I agree it's an odd thing to get worked up about, which is why I can't understand why so many got worked up over something I stated several times was a "personal preference". Hey, but you guys are acting like good cult members do, must toe the line or there's hell to pay. Don't dare to disagree with a Fran decision or it's "OMG, how could you disagree with our infallible leader?" LOL.
 
No, because you are dodging the question. Are the highlighted quotes your personal opinion, or did someone at IU give you this information? All I want is the truth. I didn't make the statements, you did but now you are trying to deflect and put this back on me. If you got this information from someone involved with IU that is a serious matter. If you didn't and this is just your opinion, then end of discussion.

the last time stop...you ARE NOT going to badger me to tell you the name. I do not have to qualify anything...do you?
 
"He isnt going to WOW anyone with overall athleticism but you dont have to do that to be an effective player."
He wows me.

I agree that he doesn't WOW at the eye test, however, in rewatching the ISU game I noticed that he is almost deceptively athletic. On defense, you think he's been beaten off the dribble and suddenly he's back in front of the guy again. I really noticed this on his steal on the inbounds after Joks 18 ft jumper; he just comes out of nowhere for the tip and catch. Or in going to the rim, he looks like he's going slow yet before you know it, he's at the rim. I suspect his strong build makes him look unathletic yet I think he quick, strong, and make correct and purposeful movements on the court (like exceptional body control going to the rim, drawing a foul, and finishing). I think if he converts a few pounds to muscle over the next year or two, he will be quite the spectacle to watch.
 
Who's being sensitive? I stated a personal preference and several of you guys got your noses out of joint. Learn to read. I haven't taken both sides of the issue. Injuries are a valid reason to redshirt, I've never claimed otherwise. I've said redshirting big guys (I used Olesani as an example) can sometimes be justified to redshirt. I've said if academics were a problem, and the student agreed, then a redshirt can be justified. I don't like redshirting players, especially guards, for basketball reasons.

Dude, Knight didn't recruit a lot of academic problems, so obviously he's not going to have a lot of players held out for academic reasons. What a stupid argument. If this was critical thinking on your part, god help you.

Of great, now you are citing personal experience to prove a general point. Do I really need to address the logical fallacy of this reasoning.

"To declare it a bust/success at this stage is premature."

LOL. Please provide the quote where I've said this or even suggested this. I'm saying I think it's a bad idea (again, why do most coaches not redshirt freshmen?). I think Moss would have helped last year and would be a better player this year. AGAIN, it's a personal preference on my part, and one which 99% of coaches agree with me so my position is hardly radical/extreme. Please reread that last line so you don't misstate my position.

One last thing. Yes or no, do you think it was a mistake for Fran not to redshirt Williams last year?

I think throwing all caps into a conversation shows a little sensitivity. I like how 99% is now equal to a great majority. I like how in one conversation 'it wasn't unusual for Knight' becomes he didn't recruit academic risks so he didn't need to. Nice consistent efforts from you. As far as Williams go his situation didn't warrant a red shirt for him.
Keep on fighting the good fight. You are pretty entertaining with your incredible critical thought and consistency.

In case you didn't recognize it that was sarcasm. Good work out of you.
 
I think throwing all caps into a conversation shows a little sensitivity. I like how 99% is now equal to a great majority. I like how in one conversation 'it wasn't unusual for Knight' becomes he didn't recruit academic risks so he didn't need to. Nice consistent efforts from you. As far as Williams go his situation didn't warrant a red shirt for him.
Keep on fighting the good fight. You are pretty entertaining with your incredible critical thought and consistency.

In case you didn't recognize it that was sarcasm. Good work out of you.
No the caps are for people like you who have difficulty reading. LOL. You probably think when someone says "I'm hungry enough to eat a horse" they are being literal. True/False, my position on redshirting freshmen is not extreme based on the views of the NCAA current basketball coaches? The Knight comments were perfectly consistent, but it requires using critical thinking to understand.
 
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