My truth about Gonzaga.............

[joelbc1]

They have one great shooter.

Have you seen them play at all?

You only need one...if that.......Texas Western had a 5'8 and 5'10 starting guard court back in '66...and no real great shooter....
The Zags are well coached, too. Lots of Tourney experience. I don't know how anyone can say they don't deserve #1....who beat them?

 

[Hawkman34]

I am totally agreeing that they deserve a number 1 seed. But, Joel I think a better way to state your argument is not that they solved the "Luka problem"....rather they solved the Iowa offense problem. When the Hawks are on they can score with anyone, and as you correctly pointed out, they stopped our other BIG scorers. Now, I am actually happy with our draw. It is VERY important to remember that when we met them months ago, we were playing almost 90% of our D in zone.......which is something a team with a few GREAT spot up shooting guys like the Zags want. Turn the page to now and we have developed into a pretty salty defense and have been challenged by some of the best offenses. I am WAY more scared of Illinois then I am of Gonzaga at this point. If we meet again, Suggs will get his points, but I GUARANTEE he will not get 10 open, uncontested 3's like he did in our first meeting because we will play man.

Go Hawks!!!

 

[joelbc1]

I am totally agreeing that they deserve a number 1 seed. But, Joel I think a better way to state your argument is not that they solved the "Luka problem"....rather they solved the Iowa offense problem. When the Hawks are on they can score with anyone, and as you correctly pointed out, they stopped our other BIG scorers. Now, I am actually happy with our draw. It is VERY important to remember that when we met them months ago, we were playing almost 90% of our D in zone.......which is something a team with a few GREAT spot up shooting guys like the Zags want. Turn the page to now and we have developed into a pretty salty defense and have been challenged by some of the best offenses. I am WAY more scared of Illinois then I am of Gonzaga at this point. If we meet again, Suggs will get his points, but I GUARANTEE he will not get 10 open, uncontested 3's like he did in our first meeting because we will play man.

Go Hawks!!!

Pardon my sarcasm. And I agree.......Illinois is a tougher nut to crack than any other team in the tournament. I honestly believe, all things considered and equal, Iowa beats Illinois maybe 1 or twice out of ten times.....Most other teams Iowa can beat 4-6 times out of 10.....as long as they dont play Indiana again.....

 

[Fair Child]

Gee....I wonder how Gonzaga beat Iowa....did Garza sit out? You have a short memory....the Zags kicked Iowa's butt all afternoon. The game was over 15 mins into it....A team like Mich or Illinois will test them a lot...or even a Baylor...But Gonzaga solved the "Luka problem" with little effort....

Wasn’t that prior to Fran changing up the defense?

 

[littlez]

Not sure why Illinois scares you more than Gonzaga. Illini forced us out of our man by just pick and rolling Luka to death. Zags have shooters everywhere. Pick your poison man or zone. If we play man Suggs will do the same with him and Timme plus they have Kispert. I’d rather see us stick to man, but Zags are just hard to guard either way. They dropped 98 on Virginia for goodness sakes.

 

[joelbc1]

Not sure why Illinois scares you more than Gonzaga. Illini forced us out of our man by just pick and rolling Luka to death. Zags have shooters everywhere. Pick your poison man or zone. If we play man Suggs will do the same with him and Timme plus they have Kispert. I’d rather see us stick to man, but Zags are just hard to guard either way. They dropped 98 on Virginia for goodness sakes.

Folks here have a tendency to underestimate how good the Zags are.....I think Illinois can match up to Gonzaga more effectively than we (Iowa) personnel wise. Illinois has a bunch of "quick" and a couple of decent shooters...and Kofi...as long as Kofi can "bull around" the paint, he will be effective....He wouldn't have Garza-like numbers vs. Gonzaga though....because Illinois is much more than Kofi.

 

[Hawkman34]

Pardon my sarcasm. And I agree.......Illinois is a tougher nut to crack than any other team in the tournament. I honestly believe, all things considered and equal, Iowa beats Illinois maybe 1 or twice out of ten times.....Most other teams Iowa can beat 4-6 times out of 10.....as long as they dont play Indiana again.....

Agreed.

 

[Hawkman34]

Wasn’t that prior to Fran changing up the defense?

Yep...

 

[Hawkman34]

Not sure why Illinois scares you more than Gonzaga. Illini forced us out of our man by just pick and rolling Luka to death. Zags have shooters everywhere. Pick your poison man or zone. If we play man Suggs will do the same with him and Timme plus they have Kispert. I’d rather see us stick to man, but Zags are just hard to guard either way. They dropped 98 on Virginia for goodness sakes.

Because, the Zags have no one even close to Kofi. The Zags are a very good team and I totally agree that they deserve a #1 seed, but good grief compare the two teams now and who is battle tested. Compare position by position at this point and I truly would rather play the Zags. Luka has proved that he can score 30 on their front line AND foul them out. He is just not able to be effective against Kofi. If you remove Luka from the equation against either of these teams we are toast. We just need to play man better against the teams we play from here on out.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

I don't see the Zags going all the way...

Exactly!!! The 2 seed is in their way...

 

[RocknRollface]

You only need one...if that.......Texas Western had a 5'8 and 5'10 starting guard court back in '66...and no real great shooter....
The Zags are well coached, too. Lots of Tourney experience. I don't know how anyone can say they don't deserve #1....who beat them?

You're jumping all over to different arguments.

Gonzaga is definitely one of the two or 3 best teams.

I don't expect Iowa to beat them, but Iowa matches up better with them than any of the other one seeds.

 

[joelbc1]

You're jumping all over to different arguments.

Gonzaga is definitely one of the two or 3 best teams.

I don't expect Iowa to beat them, but Iowa matches up better with them than any of the other one seeds.

Really?
I dont see it. Not Illinois. Not UMich (w/ a healthy Livers)....probably Baylor...

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

The truth about Gonzaga under Mark Few is this, great resume, but:
4 - # 1 seeds
2 - # 2 seeds
2 - # 3 seeds
2 - # 4 seeds
12 - # 6 - # 12 seeds

0 = National Championships.

 

[joelbc1]

The truth about Gonzaga under Mark Few is this, great resume, but:
4 - # 1 seeds
2 - # 2 seeds
2 - # 3 seeds
2 - # 4 seeds
12 - # 6 - # 12 seeds

0 = National Championships.

who said that winning a National Championship is easy? Ralph Miller never really ever got close. Was he not a great coach? Arnie never won a PGA...does that mean he wasn't a great golfer? It took Dean Smith a few years to break through....Some guys never get it done...does that mean they cant coach?
In a perfect world, if the opportunity occurred, would you take Few as your basketball coach? Plus, apparently he follows the rules....

 

[illinielite]

who said that winning a National Championship is easy? Ralph Miller never really ever got close. Was he not a great coach? Arnie never won a PGA...does that mean he wasn't a great golfer? It took Dean Smith a few years to break through....Some guys never get it done...does that mean they cant coach?
In a perfect world, if the opportunity occurred, would you take Few as your basketball coach? Plus, apparently he follows the rules....

I think Gonzaga / Few have been to one final four, where they lost the national championship. This demonstrates that a #1 seed hasn't gotten them to the final four at a high percentage either. It's hard just to get to a final four.

Honestly, and I ask myself this as an Illinois fan, would you be satisfied with your team getting to a final four? It's a pretty big accomplishment by itself.

 

[joelbc1]

I think Gonzaga / Few have been to one final four, where they lost the national championship. This demonstrates that a #1 seed hasn't gotten them to the final four at a high percentage either. It's hard just to get to a final four.

Honestly, and I ask myself this as an Illinois fan, would you be satisfied with your team getting to a final four? It's a pretty big accomplishment by itself.

I lived long enough to see the Red Sox win a World Championship a few times...and when I became a fan in the mid-50s, I saw an awful lot of bad Red Sox teams. Sure I want the brass ring....its been 40+ years since we got there last time....I believe this team has the talent to do so but you need to catch a break along the way....... Someone has to get there. It's like golf...you can't have bad luck every day.

 

[MeetTheFerentz]

I've loved these threads all year about how Gonzaga should apologize for daring to develop a top-notch basketball program at a small school in a small conference, and should be "punished" somehow.

Would you guys rather have Duke and Kentucky both undefeated #1 seeds again?

How about the big conference teams be "punished" for not being able to build as good of a team as Gonzaga despite 10x the athletic department resources?

Enough of this crybaby sh#t. Tired of hearing about Gonzaga? How 'bout the Hawks manage to win 3 games that they're supposed to win, and then not be out of it by halftime in our rematch?

 

[anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r]

It boggles my mind how some Iowa fans believe Gonzaga is undeserving....we played them this season for goodness sakes! And this Iowa team that some of you believe is a legit title contender wasn’t super competitive against the Zags, just a few months ago...need I remind you we were down 14 by the half?

Some of our fans really need to take the black and gold blinders off...

 

[littlez]

I've loved these threads all year about how Gonzaga should apologize for daring to develop a top-notch basketball program at a small school in a small conference, and should be "punished" somehow.

Would you guys rather have Duke and Kentucky both undefeated #1 seeds again?

How about the big conference teams be "punished" for not being able to build as good of a team as Gonzaga despite 10x the athletic department resources?

Enough of this crybaby sh#t. Tired of hearing about Gonzaga? How 'bout the Hawks manage to win 3 games that they're supposed to win, and then not be out of it by halftime in our rematch?

Nothing else really needs to be said here!

 

[hawkedoff]

Back when we played Gonzaga we were favored to win the Big Ten and get a number one seed. As our real season was starting in the Big ten Gonzagas real season was over. Their real season consisted of playing 4-5 power conference teams early in the season. Is keegan and patrick the same players now as they were then? Nope. Gonzaga has not played anyone since their real season was over in December. The cinderella story was fun but we are seeing in them exactly why the power give should get preference over allowing the Gonzagas of the world to build of the mythology of greatness and steal seeding. Go look at who exactly they beat in previous tournaments to get all those elite eight and sweet sixteen appearances. It isn't a gauntlet and yes that includes beating us badly one year. We are not michigan state. What overseeding has done for them is they don't face the big kids until later than they should and teams in the middle of the big conferences end up playing duke or kentucky in the round of 32 instead of the sweet sixteen. When gonzaga plays the big kids they lose just like everyone else. Except they get to do it later in the tournament than everyone else because they are over seeded.

 

[MeetTheFerentz]

Back when we played Gonzaga we were favored to win the Big Ten and get a number one seed. As our real season was starting in the Big ten Gonzagas real season was over. Their real season consisted of playing 4-5 power conference teams early in the season. Is keegan and patrick the same players now as they were then? Nope. Gonzaga has not played anyone since their real season was over in December. The cinderella story was fun but we are seeing in them exactly why the power give should get preference over allowing the Gonzagas of the world to build of the mythology of greatness and steal seeding. Go look at who exactly they beat in previous tournaments to get all those elite eight and sweet sixteen appearances. It isn't a gauntlet and yes that includes beating us badly one year. We are not michigan state. What overseeding has done for them is they don't face the big kids until later than they should and teams in the middle of the big conferences end up playing duke or kentucky in the round of 32 instead of the sweet sixteen. When gonzaga plays the big kids they lose just like everyone else. Except they get to do it later in the tournament than everyone else because they are over seeded.

You make some decent points. During their title game run in '17, they never had to beat better than a #4 seed. But they've beaten a team seeded 7 or better in the NCAA Tourney 15 times since '95. Iowa has done that twice over the same period. Don't make it sound like they get beat as soon as they play a good team. Not too many teams have a great record against Duke, N. Carolina, Kentucky and #1 seeds. They've earned their spot in the NCAA Tourney every year, and their performance has indicated that their seeding has been rather appropriate.

 

[hawkedoff]

You make some decent points. During their title game run in '17, they never had to beat better than a #4 seed. But they've beaten a team seeded 7 or better in the NCAA Tourney 15 times since '95. Iowa has done that twice over the same period. Don't make it sound like they get beat as soon as they play a good team. Not too many teams have a great record against Duke, N. Carolina, Kentucky and #1 seeds. They've earned their spot in the NCAA Tourney every year, and their performance has indicated that their seeding has been rather appropriate.

That may be true but Iowa also has run into higher seeds much earlier in the tournament. Across the same time span Iowa lost to a one or two seed over 60 percent of the time. Gonzaga also has made the tournament every single year since 1999. Don't you think that provides them a bit more opportunity to win? Knowing every year they get a free pass to the tournament allows them have that many more chances at a run and since they tend to be overseeded they get those 7 seeds vs 2 seeds. They have a nice program but it isn't the vaunted success people think. It is arranged luck. Go look at iowas tournament history across the same span. We run into teams like Duke in the second round and then we lose because they are Duke and we are not. We get seeded where we get seeded assuming we make the tournament at all because we play in the big ten.



The truth is gonzaga would not have the success it does outside where they are even if they went to the pac12. It is their easy path to the tournament and easy path to a high seed that attracts high level players to Spokane. Ever been there? Yeah neither has anyone else. It is an Iowa City in the state of Washington. Unless you have a reason to go there you don't go there. Move them to the PAC 12 and the easy path goes away. They might have a few years to love off their current success but it would fade.

 

[MeetTheFerentz]

That may be true but Iowa also has run into higher seeds much earlier in the tournament. Across the same time span Iowa lost to a one or two seed over 60 percent of the time. Gonzaga also has made the tournament every single year since 1999. Don't you think that provides them a bit more opportunity to win? Knowing every year they get a free pass to the tournament allows them have that many more chances at a run and since they tend to be overseeded they get those 7 seeds vs 2 seeds. They have a nice program but it isn't the vaunted success people think. It is arranged luck. Go look at iowas tournament history across the same span. We run into teams like Duke in the second round and then we lose because they are Duke and we are not. We get seeded where we get seeded assuming we make the tournament at all because we play in the big ten.



The truth is gonzaga would not have the success it does outside where they are even if they went to the pac12. It is their easy path to the tournament and easy path to a high seed that attracts high level players to Spokane. Ever been there? Yeah neither has anyone else. It is an Iowa City in the state of Washington. Unless you have a reason to go there you don't go there. Move them to the PAC 12 and the easy path goes away. They might have a few years to love off their current success but it would fade.

 

[Hawkman34]

I have not seen a lot of Hawk fans complaining that the Zags got a number one seed. Mainly, that it seems to be a foregone conclusion that they should just be handed their final 4 spot because they are this unbeatable juggernaut. I have repeated that they fully deserve their #1 seed. But, I am happy with our draw. We might loose early....we might end up meeting the Zags and getting blown out....or we might actually surprise EVERYONE by winning. But, I will again say that I would rather play them a second time then be stuck with the Illini again. That team is ULTRA SCARY at this point.

Just a side note. I spent most of the day on the road and listened to EVERY podcast I could find on the brackets. Let me say this. EVERY other team in the Zags bracket should listen to these podcast for motivation. It was an utter joke how disrespected all the teams were. Good grief, you have heard what they said about Iowa possibly meeting up with the Zags again. UGH!!!

 

[Rudolph]

Gonzaga is the only Iowa game this year I missed. Unless I'm mistaken, it is not available anywhere as a replay. If someone has a link, please share. TIA.

 

[hawkedoff]

Gonzaga is the only Iowa game this year I missed. Unless I'm mistaken, it is not available anywhere as a replay. If someone has a link, please share. TIA.

It wasn't the blow out some people are portraying. They did get up big but we also fought back within a couple possessions. They hit some big shots down the stretch and we missed. We also fouled out the guys guarding luka and I think if things had titled even a little out way we would have won. They beat us but it wasn't a beat down. Their coach most certainly didn't think so by his comments after the game.

They could beat us again but we could also beat them...it won't be surprise to me if we beat them at all.

 

[RocknRollface]

It wasn't the blow out some people are portraying. They did get up big but we also fought back within a couple possessions. They hit some big shots down the stretch and we missed. We also fouled out the guys guarding luka and I think if things had titled even a little out way we would have won. They beat us but it wasn't a beat down. Their coach most certainly didn't think so by his comments after the game.

They could beat us again but we could also beat them...it won't be surprise to me if we beat them at all.

Iowas guards had their head up their ass that game after blowing out NC and Isu.

Bohannon especially was not ready for the jump in competition. That was his worst game of the year.

Iowa has faced Michigan at their peak, and illinios and OSU twice now.

Iowa knows who they are, and more importantly who they aren't now and how hard they need to work against elite talent to compete.

If the Iowa team that played Illinois last week played Gonzaga its a close game.

 

[IllQChawk]

Gonzaga is the only Iowa game this year I missed. Unless I'm mistaken, it is not available anywhere as a replay. If someone has a link, please share. TIA.

YouTube Iowa vs Gonzaga 19.12.20 NCAA full game

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

who said that winning a National Championship is easy? Ralph Miller never really ever got close. Was he not a great coach? Arnie never won a PGA...does that mean he wasn't a great golfer? It took Dean Smith a few years to break through....Some guys never get it done...does that mean they cant coach?
In a perfect world, if the opportunity occurred, would you take Few as your basketball coach? Plus, apparently he follows the rules....

Not knocking Few, he's the one responsible for all the high seeds. I'm saying despite all the top 4 seeds, they haven't won it all. Maybe they've gotten over rated in the tourney lately.
If you comparing to golf for some reason, Arnie won 2 Opens, a US Open and 4 Masters. The Open is the equivalent of an NCAA championship. The PGA is preseason the NIT of golf, LOL...

 

[joelbc1]

Not knocking Few, he's the one responsible for all the high seeds. I'm saying despite all the top 4 seeds, they haven't won it all. Maybe they've gotten over rated in the tourney lately.
If you comparing to golf for some reason, Arnie won 2 Opens, a US Open and 4 Masters. The Open is the equivalent of an NCAA championship. The PGA is preseason the NIT of golf, LOL...

That has the best field in professional golf. Its always been a MAJOR....and it has always been the major Arnie could not win......Arnie dod win two Brit Opens but honestly at the time, the Brit Open was largely avoided by US tour players....and Arnie's real claim in the Brit Open was making it relevent to US players...Your pronouncement that thePGA is the equivalent of the NIT is interesting anyway....incorrect but interesting.

 

[fivecardstud14]

Not knocking Few, he's the one responsible for all the high seeds. I'm saying despite all the top 4 seeds, they haven't won it all. Maybe they've gotten over rated in the tourney lately.
If you comparing to golf for some reason, Arnie won 2 Opens, a US Open and 4 Masters. The Open is the equivalent of an NCAA championship. The PGA is preseason the NIT of golf, LOL...

You can't pick another major to make your point, that's ridiculous. You pick a fall event like The Safeway or Shriners.

 

[RocknRollface]

Just watched the Iowa Gonzaga game again.

Gonzaga is the better team unquestionably but Iowa squandered a shit load of opportunities.

Suggs shot better than he's realistically capable of doing again.

Bohannon and CJ played as bad as I can ever remember. Combined they had probably 3 times the amount of open looks they get in a normal big ten game and bricked all of them.

Bohannon threw the ball away so often it was hard to believe.

Nunge threw up a bunch of bricks.

Keegan played about 3 unproductive minutes total.

Garza was great and Toussaint had a rrally good game despite his normal 2 turnovers in the first. ( This was pre Fran going full retard with his pg situation)

Gonzaga is phenomenal with their ability to cut and pass, its really beautiful to watch but Iowas defense was terrible at that point in the year.

I still think Iowa matches up better with them than any of the other 1 seeds because they aren't a great defensive team.

 

[IllQChawk]

Just watched the Iowa Gonzaga game again.

Gonzaga is the better team unquestionably but Iowa squandered a shit load of opportunities.

Suggs shot better than he's realistically capable of doing again.

Bohannon and CJ played as bad as I can ever remember. Combined they had probably 3 times the amount of open looks they get in a normal big ten game and bricked all of them.

Bohannon threw the ball away so often it was hard to believe.

Nunge threw up a bunch of bricks.

Keegan played about 3 unproductive minutes total.

Garza was great and Toussaint had a rrally good game despite his normal 2 turnovers in the first. ( This was pre Fran going full retard with his pg situation)

Gonzaga is phenomenal with their ability to cut and pass, its really beautiful to watch but Iowas defense was terrible at that point in the year.

I still think Iowa matches up better with them than any of the other 1 seeds because they aren't a great defensive team.

And I will add we played very little man to man in this game, but yeah Iowa played about as bad a game that they could've played except for Garza and Wieskamp. Doesn't mean Iowa will play any better if they have a chance for a repeat but you never know....at that time, Bohannan was just not zeroed in on taking the 3 point shot instead concentrating on assists and Fredrick appeared to me to be starting to experience that plantar fasciitis foot injury that has hampered him since mid January or so. Murray and Patrick were basically non factors and of course Connor was being Connor.

 

[RocknRollface]

And I will add we played very little man to man in this game, but yeah Iowa played about as bad a game that they could've played except for Garza and Wieskamp. Doesn't mean Iowa will play any better if they have a chance for a repeat but you never know....at that time, Bohannan was just not zeroed in on taking the 3 point shot instead concentrating on assists and Fredrick appeared to me to be starting to experience that plantar fasciitis foot injury that has hampered him since mid January or so. Murray and Patrick were basically non factors and of course Connor was being Connor.

Jbo and CJ shot enough they just didn't connect.

Iowa was not ready for the level of athleticism in the first half. Now Zags defense would be a relief vs the likes of Illinois and Michigan.

 

[RocknRollface]

Also it can't be overstated how much of an outlier 7 3s for Suggs was.

He only made more than 2 3s three times all year. 4 once 3 once and 7 against Iowa.

In 15 games this season he made 1 or 0.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Zags clearly deserved to be a 1 seed, based on dominating top teams in pre-conference. They are beatable, but have unbelievable offensive firepower. I have them winning it all, but might put in a second bracket with the Hawks taking them out.

 

[IllQChawk]

Jbo and CJ shot enough they just didn't connect.

Iowa was not ready for the level of athleticism in the first half. Now Zags defense would be a relief vs the likes of Illinois and Michigan.

You mean playing North Carolina Central, Southern, Northern Illinois, Western Illinois, and sadly Iowa State didn't prepare us to play Gonzaga....shocking!

 

[KcTo]

The truth about Gonzaga under Mark Few is this, great resume, but:
4 - # 1 seeds
2 - # 2 seeds
2 - # 3 seeds
2 - # 4 seeds
12 - # 6 - # 12 seeds

0 = National Championships.

I don’t think they will it agin this year either.....

if Fran juggled the lineup some, Iowa would drastically improve their chances of winning

ie insert Murray and Perkins, play Ogundele 4-6 minutes.

 

[FranklinHawk]

Evidently you must not have seen that game...Garza scored 30 & 10 against Timme and their front court and fouled out both Timme and Kispert. If that's solving the Luka problem I hope to see that again if we meet a 2nd time.

Yes they beat Iowa and for most of the game it was an uphill struggle but if Suggs hadn't gone off from 3, (7 of 10) and most of them just over half court the game would have been much closer. Bohannan and Keegan Murray totaled 3 points between them, that won't happen again.

Granted Nunge and Toussaint were in double figures and Nunge's production on the boards and offensively will be missed if another meeting occurs, but we shall see if we meet again if the outcome will be different.

Gonzaga has a terrific team and paid their dues with their non conference schedule, but there's a reason the WCC only got a total of 2 bids to this years tournament, it's basically a crap conference and there's no convincing argument that will change that...

And Iowa went like 2 for a million from 3 that day as well.

 

[KcTo]

Just watched the Iowa Gonzaga game again.

Gonzaga is the better team unquestionably but Iowa squandered a shit load of opportunities.

Suggs shot better than he's realistically capable of doing again.

Bohannon and CJ played as bad as I can ever remember. Combined they had probably 3 times the amount of open looks they get in a normal big ten game and bricked all of them.

Bohannon threw the ball away so often it was hard to believe.

Nunge threw up a bunch of bricks.

Keegan played about 3 unproductive minutes total.

Garza was great and Toussaint had a rrally good game despite his normal 2 turnovers in the first. ( This was pre Fran going full retard with his pg situation)

Gonzaga is phenomenal with their ability to cut and pass, its really beautiful to watch but Iowas defense was terrible at that point in the year.

I still think Iowa matches up better with them than any of the other 1 seeds because they aren't a great defensive team.

I saw where Gonzaga has 4 players to be drafted in the 21 NBA draft...all in the top 40.
Iowa has zero. =yikes.

Although there is always the argument that age and chemistry beats talented undisciplined youth
but zags 4 projected are Fr, So, Jr, Sr = yikes (again)