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Nate Silver model points towards Trump as probabilistic favorite

"First of all, if he loses to Kamala, he immediately is the overwhelming favorite in 2028."

How often do parties renominate candidates who have lost twice in a row, and would be around 90 years old by the end of a theoretical 2029-2033 term?

As cultish as Trump's support is, if he loses in November, I think he is finished. His figurative One Ring will have finally been destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom.

I'll believe it when I see it. It's not really about him, it's a counterculture movement, or a cult.

Nobody really thinks he's the best person for the job. It's a giant middle finger to the institutions and culture they feel despises them and abuses them.

Plus, he's got an entire grifting economy around him that just doesn't transfer to anyone else.
 
Agree to an extent. When trumps been at rallies, the crowds just don’t seem as enthused as they’ve been in the past. It’s telling to me that polls show far more movement for Harris than they do for Trump.
The polls have shown Harris losing her lead steadily for a couple of weeks. I honestly see no way she can win with the numbers we have right now.

Trump voters will be voting. Period. So his numbers will stay where they are at. Harris has no way of improving her numbers, but lots of opportunities to lower them.
 
The polls have shown Harris losing her lead steadily for a couple of weeks. I honestly see no way she can win with the numbers we have right now.

Trump voters will be voting. Period. So his numbers will stay where they are at. Harris has no way of improving her numbers, but lots of opportunities to lower them.
She'd have to pump the dem turnout up. And then there are the undecideds. I've never got a good idea of exactly how many there are in play, though.
 
The polls have shown Harris losing her lead steadily for a couple of weeks. I honestly see no way she can win with the numbers we have right now.

Trump voters will be voting. Period. So his numbers will stay where they are at. Harris has no way of improving her numbers, but lots of opportunities to lower them.
I think you have Trump and Harris switched in your 2nd paragraph.
 
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Agree to an extent. When trumps been at rallies, the crowds just don’t seem as enthused as they’ve been in the past. It’s telling to me that polls show far more movement for Harris than they do for Trump.

The change in the polls I don't think reflects anything about Trump, only how wildly unpopular Joe Biden is and the drag he was on the democrats.

Remember, Joe Biden is out because basically everyone that mattered decided that he literally could not beat Trump. He was pushed out in an unprecedented way because of how hopeless his chances were believed to be.

I'm very unconvinced that the switch from Biden to Harris (a heretofore extremely unpopular candidate and VP) pushes the Democrats from "No Chance" to "Commanding Lead".

It's more like it pushed it from "No Chance" to "In Play" in my opinion. All the drumbeat of unbridled joy and enthusiasm is just noise.

She's essentially TIED with the most loathed and shameful and examined candidate in American history. And that's off a convention bounce, zero press scrutiny, fawning media cheerleading, massive relief she's not Biden, not having to reveal let alone defend policy positions, or even answering questions from the press. You could not be given a smoother runway or more support and less friction than the runway Kamala has had for weeks...and she's essentially tied.

For all the talk of Trump's low ceiling, don't forget about his high floor. At this point, all his negatives are baked in. There's nothing more he can do or say to hurt him. It's not guaranteed, but it's very possible that this is as low as Trump can go, and has high as Kamala can go.

Now, maybe Kamala is AWESOME tonight in the debate, and I'll feel stronger about her case. She's got much more money and better on the ground operations for sure.

But unless she has the political night of her life, I don't see my elevating her higher than "could win."
 
I think you have Trump and Harris switched in your 2nd paragraph.
No. Trump’s numbers are solid. He can’t increase how many will vote for him, but he can’t lose any, either. Harris has nothing she can do to increase her support, but any hiccup could hurt it.
 
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The polls have shown Harris losing her lead steadily for a couple of weeks. I honestly see no way she can win with the numbers we have right now.

Trump voters will be voting. Period. So his numbers will stay where they are at. Harris has no way of improving her numbers, but lots of opportunities to lower them.
You have this backwards. Trump has no way to improve his numbers. He is capped at 47%. Harris has a cap of 51-52.
 
No. Trump’s numbers are solid. He can’t increase how many will vote for him, but he can’t lose any, either. Harris has nothing she can do to increase her support, but any hiccup could hurt it.

Yep, the same exact thing that I was typing. There's a very good chance this is Harris' absolute high water mark. She's been absolutely coasting and protected. And she's mostly had advertising to herself with Trump's finances shaky.
 
No. Trump’s numbers are solid. He can’t increase how many will vote for him, but he can’t lose any, either. Harris has nothing she can do to increase her support, but any hiccup could hurt it.
He has a basement of 44%. He's likely to finish around 45-46. Pretty hard to win elections at rates like that.
 
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She'd have to pump the dem turnout up. And then there are the undecideds. I've never got a good idea of exactly how many there are in play, though.

I'm super unconvinced, despite the insistence to the contrary, that her campaign has actually sparked amazing enthusiasm. I think it has sparked relief that Biden is done, and potentially some hope. But her numbers have been much worse than Biden's numbers were in 2020 among key groups...Latinos, young people, suburban women, any men. And that was a very close shave for Biden.

People make the mistake of comparing Harris's popularity or polling to Biden's current favorability, or his favorability before his announcement, which make Harris look better by comparison.

But they really need to be comparing her to where Biden was in '20, in an election he barely squeaked out. Her favorability and enthusiasm numbers lag Biden '20 in pretty much all key groups. I'm not sure what anyone is basing the idea of her pumping up turnout on, other than anecdotal stories of "joy" and artificial Chinese Tik Tok algorithms.

People are going to be shocked because they were given on great authority that Harris created joy and was electrifying wide swaths of the electorate, but there is very little fundamentals actually behind that.
 
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People are going to be shocked because they were given on great authority that Harris created joy and was electrifying wide swaths of the electorate, but there is very little fundamentals actually behind that.
Yeah that's what you get if you live in a partisan bubble
 
No. Trump’s numbers are solid. He can’t increase how many will vote for him, but he can’t lose any, either. Harris has nothing she can do to increase her support, but any hiccup could hurt it.
Polls I’ve seen seem to indicate there are far more voters who haven’t made up their minds about her than Trump. So I’d disagree that there’s nothing she can do to increase support.
 
You have this backwards. Trump has no way to improve his numbers. He is capped at 47%. Harris has a cap of 51-52.
I read more and more ACTUAL REPUBLICANS who are going to vote for Kamala. So if that's the case, she will only be gaining voters. She's not going to lose voters to Trump.
 
I'm super unconvinced, despite the insistence to the contrary, that her campaign has actually sparked amazing enthusiasm. I think it has sparked relief that Biden is done, and potentially some hope. But her numbers have been much worse than Biden's numbers were in 2020 among key groups...Latinos, young people, suburban women, any men. And that was a very close shave for Biden.

People make the mistake of comparing Harris's popularity or polling to Biden's current favorability, or his favorability before his announcement, which make Harris look better by comparison.

But they really need to be comparing her to where Biden was in '20, in an election he barely squeaked out. Her favorability and enthusiasm numbers lag Biden '20 in pretty much all key groups. I'm not sure what anyone is basing the idea of her pumping up turnout on, other than anecdotal stories of "joy" and artificial Chinese Tik Tok algorithms.

People are going to be shocked because they were given on great authority that Harris created joy and was electrifying wide swaths of the electorate, but there is very little fundamentals actually behind that.
She is raising record amounts of money and selling out arenas around the country. She has a volunteer base of 300,000 and her yard signs are everywhere. Please explain how that doesn't translate to massive enthusiasm , iyo?
 
He has a basement of 75 to 80 million. And he beat Hillary with 46% of the popular vote.
He likely peaked in 2020. I have an exceptionally hard time believing that he will do better this time around now that he is no longer the sitting president, is pushing 80, and is a felon.
 
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He likely peaked in 2020. I have an exceptionally hard time believing that he will do better this time around now that he is no longer the sitting president, is pushing 80, and is a felon.
If his numbers go up, that just means the electorate grew because you know, people get older.
 
If his numbers go up, that just means the electorate grew because you know, people get older.
Polls also do a poor job of capturing young people. They certainly missed them in 2022. It is very reasonable to think they're failing to capture young people again. I wouldn't be surprised if we see college kids lined up around the block come November. Especially with abortion on the ballot in many states.
 
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