Nebby: A case of end of game poor time management

[OnceAhawk]

I know KF has his own issues.

However, lets look at the crazy ending to the Wisconsin at Nebby game.

4th qtr, 1:26 to go, Neb leads 21-20; WI's 39 yard FG attempt hits the right upright, no good; the crowd in Lincoln is going crazy; Mike Riley has a huge smile on his face; the game is won for Nebby, right? Not so fast....

Wisconsin had all 3 time outs left; again, just 86 seconds left in the game!

Nebraska offense from their own 21, 1:26 to go in the game:
1st and 10: Neb runs the ball, WI time out; 1:22 left
2nd and 7 Neb runs again; WI time out, 1:18 left
3rd and 7: Neb runs again, WI time out, 1:14 left
4th and 5: Neb punts the ball; WI returns to their 30 yd line, 1:03 left in the game

Wisconsin offense from their own 30, 1:03 left in game, WI w/ no time outs
1st and 10: Stave 8 yd pass, clock continues to move, 46 seconds left right before the next snap
2nd and 2: Stave pass complete to the 50 yd line, clock stops at 38 seconds w/ the 1st down
1st and 10; Stave pass complete to Neb 28 yd line, clock stops at 25 seconds w/ the 1st down
1st and 10: Stave pass incomplete (pass thrown ahead of 1st down marker); clock stops; 15 sec left
2nd and 10: Stave under pressure, pass incomplete to the side line; 9 seconds left
3rd and 10: Kicking into the wind, WI makes 46 yd FG to take a 23-21 lead with 4 second left in the game

Neb botches any potential for returning the kick off and the clock runs out.

 

[like-woahh]

I don't see how that was mismanaged? Are you saying they should have thrown on 3rd down? Sounds good in hindsight but there's no guarantee you make the first down.

Edit: I guess you're saying Nebraska should have been calling timeouts in case they make the field goal. But then aren't you just giving them more time to chew up more yards for an easier field goal?

 

[ichawk24]

You have presented absolutely zero poor clock mgmt.

 

[theVoicefromtheTomb]

Biggest thing is just stop somebody at the end of a game. 1 stop is all you need.

 

[Packer54]

I don't think it was poor clock management. I think it was poor play calling.

 

[OnceAhawk]

do you play to win the game or not? after all, this is what KF is accused of NOT doing.

Neb ran the ball 3 times, got 5 yds, and just 12 seconds went off the clock. Would you trust the Neb pass defense to hold or would you pass at least once, WITH THE WIND, and try to get a first down and win the game? the clock was going to stop no matter what (pass incompletion or WI time out).

Play to win the game. You demand that of KF but every other coach gets a pass?

 

[like-woahh]

do you play to win the game or not? after all, this is what KF is accused of NOT doing.

Neb ran the ball 3 times, got 5 yds, and just 12 seconds went off the clock. Would you trust the Neb pass defense to hold or would you pass at least once, WITH THE WIND, and try to get a first down and win the game? the clock was going to stop no matter what (pass incompletion or WI time out).

Play to win the game. You demand that of KF but every other coach gets a pass?

I wouldn't demand that from KF, so you're talking to the wrong person in that regard.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

No way was NE going to throw it, after last week's debacle at Illinois. I don't blame them. If they did throw and failed to convert the first down, they never would have heard the end of it from NE fans.

I think the end of that game came down to NE's D's inability to get off the field. Odds of WI driving into FG range and making it were fairly slim with no TO's. NE couldn't stop them and WI made the kick -- credit to WI's O and their chubby kicker for getting it done, and not so good a job out of the NE D.

 

[OnceAhawk]

You have presented absolutely zero poor clock mgmt.

so letting Wisconsin dictate the clock with its time outs and letting Wisconsin dictate the ending of the game was good clock management on Nebby's part?

 

[bagdropper]

I'd say 469 yards allowed by the blackshirts was the chief reason. Another middling result from Armstrong didn't help either.

 

[OnceAhawk]

Biggest thing is just stop somebody at the end of a game. 1 stop is all you need.

have you watched Neb's Defense? would you trust it?

Or would you rather win the game with your offense?

ONE first down wins the game for Neb. Neb got super conservative and let Wisconsin control the clock (where the time mismanagement is involved) and ultimately they let Neb win the game as a result.

 

[ichawk24]

So you are supportive of Nebraska playing to win at Illinois? Armstrongs bootleg was playing to win.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Most teams will run it three times in that situation to force the opposing team to use up their TO's. Pretty standard stuff there from NE.

On WI's drive, it would have been pretty unconventional for NE to start calling TO's, which would have given WI more time to get their stuff together and probably increase their chances of converting enough first downs to get into FG range. It would have been different if WI had been deep in NE territory, in obvious easy FG range. In that situation, you call TO's to save time for when you get the ball back. As it was, WI barely got into range and they still had to make a 46-yard FG into the wind. I don't think you can fault NE for not calling TO's in that situation. You can fault their D for not getting a stop, and you tip your cap to WI for executing when the had to have it.

 

[OnceAhawk]

No way was NE going to throw it, after last week's debacle at Illinois. I don't blame them. If they did throw and failed to convert the first down, they never would have heard the end of it from NE fans.

I think the end of that game came down to NE's D's inability to get off the field. Odds of WI driving into FG range and making it were fairly slim with no TO's. NE couldn't stop them and WI made the kick -- credit to WI's O and their chubby kicker for getting it done, and not so good a job out of the NE D.

do you play to win the game or not?

Neb ran the ball 3 times, got 5 yds, and just 12 seconds went off the clock. Would you trust the Neb pass defense to hold or would you pass at least once, WITH THE WIND, and try to get a first down and win the game? the clock was going to stop no matter what (pass incompletion or WI time out).

Play to win the game.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

So you are supportive of Nebraska playing to win at Illinois? Armstrongs bootleg was playing to win.

Right. After that debacle, there was no way Riley was going to throw it there. They might have fired him on the spot if it had blown up in their face again.

I wouldn't fault a coach for throwing it, but it's hard to blame Riley for staying conservative there. Even a mediocre defense was likely to prevent a score with that time remaining and no TO's for WI. I'd actually prefer to go more aggressively for that first down, but there's an obvious risk of stopping the clock on an incomplete pass and giving the opposition more time to drive the ball.

 

[GPRHAWK]

Illinois game may be the worst clock management I've ever seen. I'm sure the loss was frustrating for Nebby fans yesterday, but the loss wasn't due to poor clock management. Just another game Nebby couldn't finish.

 

[OnceAhawk]

I'd say 469 yards allowed by the blackshirts was the chief reason. Another middling result from Armstrong didn't help either.

that's why you put the trust in your offense to get ONE first down and not give the ball back to WI; with one first down, you win the game

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

do you play to win the game or not?

Neb ran the ball 3 times, got 5 yds, and just 12 seconds went off the clock. Would you trust the Neb pass defense to hold or would you pass at least once, WITH THE WIND, and try to get a first down and win the game? the clock was going to stop no matter what (pass incompletion or WI time out).

Play to win the game.

That's exactly the point, and I've explained above. NE basically blew the Illinois game by being overly aggressive in a similar situation. I'm sure that was fresh in Riley's mind, and he wasn't at all inclined to throw it there, for obvious reasons.

Most coaches would have run it three times. As I said above, I'd be inclined to throw it -- probably before 3rd down, when it's more expected. That said, most coaches would run it three times in that situation, again for obvious reasons. Riley went with the conventional approach. By no means was it poor clock management. Again, it was poor defense more than anything.

I don't think you're getting this.

 

[spiderland]

One correction: wind was opposite (Wiscy had wind at their backs). Armstrong's accuracy into the wind had been horrendous all game.

Basically, right now Riley's in a place where whatever he does is the wrong thing. He called his timeouts on Wiscy's next to last possession assuming the field goal would be made in order to give his offense some time to drive for a final score. This turned out to be the wrong thing to do when Wiscy's attempt failed.

Of course, had he not used his timeouts and let Wiscy run the clock down, that first attempt would have been good.

He's a cursed man at the present time.

 

[UncleChesterton]

It was bad play calling. They made poor time management decisions in the game prior, then somehow learned the lesson of 'never pass' on your last possession. The entire last minute of Nebraska effort could be well summed up by a photo of an exhausted person in the fetal position in a closed sleeping bag.

Since they needed a first down to actually run off any clock because of the WI timeouts, the entire playbook should have been open. If they are afraid to do the right thing because they screwed up the week before and can't make the judgment/see the difference, it's going to be a terrible couple of years here in Lincoln.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Not a NE fan at all, but I do feel sorry for Riley. Seems like a great guy, and he's had some really horrible luck starting out there.

 

[OnceAhawk]

Illinois game may be the worst clock management I've ever seen. I'm sure the loss was frustrating for Nebby fans yesterday, but the loss wasn't due to poor clock management. Just another game Nebby couldn't finish.

based on Neb's horrific defense, you finish the game with your offense on the field, not your defense; WI only had to move the ball 40 yds to get into FG range and they did that in 3 plays

think of that; in NE's last 3 plays on offense, they moved the ball 5 yds;

In Wisconsins first 3 plays of that last series, they moved the ball 42 yards

 

[OnceAhawk]

It was bad play calling. They made poor time management decisions in the game prior, then somehow learned the lesson of 'never pass' on your last possession. The entire last minute of Nebraska effort could be well summed up by a photo of an exhausted person in the fetal position in a closed sleeping bag.

Since they needed a first down to actually run off any clock because of the WI timeouts, the entire playbook should have been open. If they are afraid to do the right thing because they screwed up the week before and can't make the judgment/see the difference, it's going to be a terrible couple of years here in Lincoln.

i agree; the entire play book should have been open to get ONE first down and win the game.

 

[And1Hawk]

Although I agree with you that getting the first down wins you the game, the thread title states poor time management. I am not sure I agree with that. They just did not execute well enough to get the first down. Is that mismanaging the clock? If they threw on any down on that series and it was incomplete, then that would have saved Wisky from using one of their timeouts. Throwing an incompletion the week before on 3rd down is what cost them a win at IL.

 

[GPRHAWK]

Can you

based on Neb's horrific defense, you finish the game with your offense on the field, not your defense; WI only had to move the ball 40 yds to get into FG range and they did that in 3 plays

think of that; in NE's last 3 plays on offense, they moved the ball 5 yds;

In Wisconsins first 3 plays of that last series, they moved the ball 42 yards

Can you imagine the outcry if Riley had called a pass play and was incomplete? You can make a case for opening up the playbook to get a first down to seal the game, but it's very understandable why Riley ran it three times.

 

[OnceAhawk]

Although I agree with you that getting the first down wins you the game, the thread title states poor time management. I am not sure I agree with that. They just did not execute well enough to get the first down. Is that mismanaging the clock? If they threw on any down on that series and it was incomplete, then that would have saved Wisky from using one of their timeouts. Throwing an incompletion the week before on 3rd down is what cost them a win at IL.

Here's why I said it was "end of game poor time management:"

Wisconsin had all 3 time outs left; again, there were just just 86 seconds left in the game. So how does Neb manage the last 86 seconds? And yes, the calls you play are part of that time management. Do they try to get ONE first down with their offense and burn up all 86 seconds or do they go ultraconservative in those last 86 seconds and give the ball back to WI's offense? The Neb coaches decided to trust their D and not their offense. Poor game management, in my opinion.

A football game is all about situations and time management. At the end of the game, Neb did a poor job with those last 86 seconds.

 

[OnceAhawk]

Can you

Can you imagine the outcry if Riley had called a pass play and was incomplete? You can make a case for opening up the playbook to get a first down to seal the game, but it's very understandable why Riley ran it three times.

but again, would YOU trust the Neb defense to hold?

 

[Packer54]

The play call at Illinois was NOT a pass. QB was instructed NOT to throw the ball and stay inbounds. QB messed up big time on executing what was called. As it relates to yesterday it was bad play calling.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Right, but I'm sure the NE fans were all over Riley for not making sure it was a run. Some would argue you should never give your QB the option of a pass, and that even if it was a poor judgment on the QB's part, the coach didn't communicate clearly enough to him that it was a run all the way.

So you have a game-losing disaster due to a throw when NE was trying to kill the clock the previous week. Anybody think Riley's going to throw it in a similar situation the following week? Highly doubtful, and I don't blame him, although I'd tend to be more aggressive in that situation knowing that one first down seals it.

So while I do think more coaches should go all-out to win the game, especially if they don't have a lot of faith in their defense, it's by far the norm to run it three times there. Hardly something you can fault Riley for, especially knowing that they lost the prior game by throwing it in that situation (even though it apparently wasn't a called pass play).

 

[OnceAhawk]

Right, but I'm sure the NE fans were all over Riley for not making sure it was a run. Some would argue you should never give your QB the option of a pass, and that even if it was a poor judgment on the QB's part, the coach didn't communicate clearly enough to him that it was a run all the way.

So you have a game-losing disaster due to a throw when NE was trying to kill the clock the previous week. Anybody think Riley's going to throw it in a similar situation the following week? Highly doubtful, and I don't blame him, although I'd tend to be more aggressive in that situation knowing that one first down seals it.

So while I do think more coaches should go all-out to win the game, especially if they don't have a lot of faith in their defense, it's by far the norm to run it three times there. Hardly something you can fault Riley for, especially knowing that they lost the prior game by throwing it in that situation (even though it apparently wasn't a called pass play).

Neb had the wind to their back. Their pass D is ranked worst in the country. I think you have to try to win the game with your offense.

Instead, Neb gave the ball back to Wisc and in the NEXT THREE PLAYS, WISC MOVED THE BALL 42 YDS and into FG range. Just gawd awful defense.

And by the way, is it time to retire the black shirts once and for all?

 

[like-woahh]

This is a perfect case of Captain Hindsight definitively saying what should have been done.

 

[Packer54]

This is a perfect case of Captain Hindsight definitively saying what should have been done.

Not for me....when Wisky missed the FG I told others at out tailgate that Nebraska needs to either give the appearance of a pass (roll out or QB draw) or short throws to get the first down. No need to focus on using up the other teams timeouts if you can't get the first down. I would not, under any circumstances, put the game on the llne with the Nebraska defense. Hell as bad as the offensive execution was at the end of the game vs Illinois, the defense was pathetic letting a receiver get that wide open BEHIND the defense at the end of the game. Lastly if a coach os worried about what the fans will think based on the prior week, then frankly he is doomed already.

 

[OnceAhawk]

This is a perfect case of Captain Hindsight definitively saying what should have been done.

Hindsight was not needed. Simply look at the facts: Neb had the worst ranked pass D in the country going into this game. What was needed was good coaching/managing and being in control of the last 86 seconds.

Again, no hindsight is needed and YOU have the ball with 86 seconds left, the wind to your back. Do you trust your offense and try to get one first down and WIN the game or do yo trust your WORST IN THE NATION pass defense?

I think the answer is simple. And no hindsight is needed.

 

[mstp1992]

Why does anyone care that much about clock management by Nebraska?

 

[Packer54]

I care because it would have helped Iowa for Wisconsin to lose I believe, more so than Nebraska losing.

 

[mstp1992]

I care because it would have helped Iowa for Wisconsin to lose I believe, more so than Nebraska losing.

Not really. If Iowa goes through the season with only 1 loss and it happens to be against Nebraska, and Wisconsin goes the rest of the season with its only conference loss to Iowa that would mean Iowa wins the division.

 

[93hawkeye]

I'll play...what if Nebby had Armstrong run a boot leg to his right. Tell him ahead of time: if there is a short throw to a wide open man, do it. Otherwise, run. Armstrong can be dangerous in space sometimes and a play like that would take a little more time off the clock than a run up the middle.

 

[GPRHAWK]

but again, would YOU trust the Neb defense to hold?

Not really, but can you not understand why Riley would not pass after the Illinois debacle?

 

[OnceAhawk]

Not really, but can you not understand why Riley would not pass after the Illinois debacle?

i think you make the calls necessary to get a first down

One first down wins you the game; instead, Neb ran 3 straight times with WI calling time out each time. Neb should have been in control, putting pressure on WI. Instead, Neb made things easy for WI and 23 seconds later, Wisc had the ball back.

Neb was in control; they had the ball; and they mismanaged those final 86 seconds

 

[Carlton]

Neb had the wind to their back. Their pass D is ranked worst in the country. I think you have to try to win the game with your offense.

Instead, Neb gave the ball back to Wisc and in the NEXT THREE PLAYS, WISC MOVED THE BALL 42 YDS and into FG range. Just gawd awful defense....

Although I was not able to see the game and can only base my conclusion on what I have read, I give Stave and the Badger offense kudos foe executing when they had to this week.