Negro League records now incorporated into MLB stats

[JWolf74]

This was a good move. And very interesting to read a bit into how painstakingly they've worked on doing this right.

Josh Gibson is now the all time leader in batting average (over Ty Cobb), Slugging and OPS (over Babe Ruth)

Link to ESPN

 

[SolarHawk]

Psst, op, I don’t think you can say Negro….

 

[DooBi]

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing this.

 

[lucas80]

Psst, op, I don’t think you can say Negro….

Context, Bro.

 

[lucas80]

Long overdue.

 

[Bank of Hawk]

I like it. I bet there was better top end talent in the Negro league, too.

 

[mnole03]

This was a good move. And very interesting to read a bit into how painstakingly they've worked on doing this right.

My main issue with it is that the pitching in MLB was significantly better than in the Negro Leagues.

Josh Gibson had a 4% home run rate against MLB pitchers, far below the 10%+ rate he had in the Negro and Mexican Leagues.

Jackie Robinson hit .375 his rookie year in the Negro League. He easily would have been a .400 career hitter had he stayed.

 

[bhawk24bob]

I'm wondering how the easily offended snowflake crowd is going to take this

 

[SolarHawk]

Context, Bro.

I iz not srs manz

 

[ZachJump]

I'm wondering how the easily offended snowflake crowd is going to take this

I dream of a day where we are able discuss a topic without both sides extreme sides finding a way to insult the other political side

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

The Negro Leagues were full of players good enough to be stars in MLB. Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige, Oscar Charleston, Buck Leonard, Judy Johnson and score of others competed regularly against white barnstorming teams and matched the best white players. It’s cool to see their stats immortalized.

 

[JWolf74]

My main issue with it is that the pitching in MLB was significantly better than in the Negro Leagues.

Josh Gibson had a 4% home run rate against MLB pitchers, far below the 10%+ rate he had in the Negro and Mexican Leagues.

Jackie Robinson hit .375 his rookie year in the Negro League. He easily would have been a .400 career hitter had he stayed.

Good point. I guess I would counter with these are the all time stats, which don't account for the overall talent of the era anyway. The players of today will be compared on this list, despite the fact the pitching of today is far better overall than it's ever been.

 

[TonyTheTiger.1865]

Isn’t the word Negro racist?

 

[hydro2.0]

I think the idea sounds good in theory but do the numbers really transfer over? Just seems like there will be a big asterisk on certain records.

 

[Chishawk1425]

This was a good move. And very interesting to read a bit into how painstakingly they've worked on doing this right.

Josh Gibson is now the all time leader in batting average (over Ty Cobb), Slugging and OPS (over Babe Ruth)

Link to ESPN

Awesome

 

[JWolf74]

Isn’t the word Negro racist?

Please grow up. Or read the thread. This lame quip had already been addressed.

 

[JWolf74]

I think the idea sounds good in theory but do the numbers really transfer over? Just seems like there will be a big asterisk on certain records.

I'm not sure if it's any bigger than having known cheaters from the steroid era in the record books.

 

[SSG T]

I have zero problem with this. My only concern isn't accuracy of the stats, more the completeness. Especially early in the league's history the stats weren't kept regularly, so there can be BIG holes.

Ftr, it's just more for fairness to the players involved

 

[joelbc1]

America will soon learn all about JOSH GIBSON! Perhaps one of the 3 greatest ball players ever (he, Ruth and Cobb). My dad watched him in Springfield and said he hit a home run there that is probably still in the air! Dad said Gibson was the best ball player he ever saw “live”..

 

[jawatkins]

I'm not sure if it's any bigger than having known cheaters from the steroid era in the record books.

There’s also plenty of other leagues that got official mlb stats before this. Baseball had eras and the divided/segregated major leagues is just as important as for example the dead ball era or the steroid era.

 

[jawatkins]

I have zero problem with this. My only concern isn't accuracy of the stats, more the completeness. Especially early in the league's history the stats weren't kept regularly, so there can be BIG holes.

Ftr, it's just more for fairness to the players involved

This will be an ongoing process. They can’t account for everything because not everything was covered, I believe that’s in the article. They also scrutinize stats to confirm they’re correct as best as they can.

 

[hydro2.0]

I'm not sure if it's any bigger than having known cheaters from the steroid era in the record books.

Everyone was on the juice.

This, to me, just seems like one big attempt for the MLB to atone for its past. I find it funny they now are willing to incorporate stats from people they wouldn’t let play. Keep the negro league stats and recognize them as an official major league but incorporating the conflated stats into the MLB just seems odd.

Maybe while we are at it we can have Ichiro become the all times hits leader if we incorporate the Japanese league

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Outstanding.

 

[franklinman]

The burgh had its share of great negro ball players on the Crawford greys. Thankfully, there is still film from that time era on those players.

 

[prlyles]

My main issue with it is that the pitching in MLB was significantly better than in the Negro Leagues.

Josh Gibson had a 4% home run rate against MLB pitchers, far below the 10%+ rate he had in the Negro and Mexican Leagues.

Jackie Robinson hit .375 his rookie year in the Negro League. He easily would have been a .400 career hitter had he stayed.

Can anyone shed some light on why the pitching was better in the MLB during the time period?

 

[swagsurfer02]

Negros…..nice

 

[TonyTheTiger.1865]

Please grow up. Or read the thread. This lame quip had already been addressed.

Isn’t lame quip racist?

 

[jawatkins]

Everyone was on the juice.

This, to me, just seems like one big attempt for the MLB to atone for its past. I find it funny they now are willing to incorporate stats from people they wouldn’t let play. Keep the negro league stats and recognize them as an official major league but incorporating the conflated stats into the MLB just seems odd.

Maybe while we are at it we can have Ichiro become the all times hits leader if we incorporate the Japanese league

They are only adding what they can absolutely confirm and Japan is not an American major league. Satchel Paige got 28 wins added to his stats. I’m guessing he had more than 28 wins from 1927-1947.

 

[Slappy Pappy]

My main issue with it is that the pitching in MLB was significantly better than in the Negro Leagues.

Josh Gibson had a 4% home run rate against MLB pitchers, far below the 10%+ rate he had in the Negro and Mexican Leagues.

Jackie Robinson hit .375 his rookie year in the Negro League. He easily would have been a .400 career hitter had he stayed.

What was the sample size for Gibson? He never played in MLB. How many games did he bat against MLB pitchers in I guess exhibitions?

 

[hydro2.0]

Can anyone shed some light on why the pitching was better in the MLB during the time period?

Why? I would imagine money and resources but that’s just a guess.

 

[hydro2.0]

They are only adding what they can absolutely confirm and Japan is not an American major league. Satchel Paige got 28 wins added to his stats. I’m guessing he had more than 28 wins from 1927-1947.

If the MLB gonna include stats that were not generated within the MLB than I say it’s fair play.

 

[jawatkins]

If the MLB gonna include stats that were not generated within the MLB than I say it’s fair play.

They already did include stats from other early leagues before this.

 

[hydro2.0]

They already did include stats from other early leagues before this.

I was unaware of this. What leagues have already been incorporated?

 

[jawatkins]

I was unaware of this. What leagues have already been incorporated?

From the article:

A special committee on baseball records decided in 1969 to recognize six major leagues dating to 1876: the National (which launched in 1876), the American (1901), the American Association (1882-1891), Union Association (1884), Players' League (1890) and Federal League (1914-1915). It excluded the National Association (1871-75), citing an "erratic schedule and procedures."

 

[hydro2.0]

From the article:

Of those six leagues that were recognized are any player stats incorporated into the MLB statistics?

 

[jawatkins]

Of those six leagues that were recognized are any player stats incorporated into the MLB statistics?

Yeah that’s the whole point was for the committee of baseball records to be able to gather the stats and recognize them as major league stats.

 

[hydro2.0]

Yeah that’s the whole point was for the committee of baseball records to be able to gather the stats and recognize them as major league stats.

Major league stats or incorporated into Major League Baseball (MLB) stats? If the latter can you show me some players who played in the six leagues you cited as also being recognized in MLB

 

[General Tso]

This is a great example of history catching up to the present. The stats shouldn't be separated simply because white people were dumbasses.

 

[JWolf74]

Isn’t lame quip racist?

Context. Look it up.

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

The burgh had its share of great negro ball players on the Crawford greys. Thankfully, there is still film from that time era on those players.

The Crawfords had their own stadium, which was rare for a black team at the time! Gus Greenlee was an innovative team owner. At their peak with a lineup that included Paige, Gibson, Charleston and others ( I can’t remember who else) they destroyed everyone they faced. Black or white.