I wanted to repost nat's contributions. They're not very sexy. But, they're extremely interesting and worth more attention. It shows you the corruption in the people you trust to run your country.
New 9/11 Doc
- Thread starter HallofFame
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"According to an in-depth examination by the Washington Post, within hours of the 9/11 attacks, Vice President Dick Cheney begins working to secure additional powers for the White House. Cheney had plans in place to begin acquiring these powers for the executive branch before the attacks, but had not begun to execute them. "
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?day_of_9/11=dickcheney&timeline=complete_911_timeline
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?day_of_9/11=dickcheney&timeline=complete_911_timeline
LOL. So what happened in WTC5 where four floors collapsed into the bldg? Did "they" just fuch that one up? Then there should have been evidence INSIDE THE BLDG of "their" efforts to bring it down. Only four floors collapsed? So what? Are you going to claim that a fire can partly collapse a bldg but can't possibly collapse the whole thing?
If your premise is that fire can't cause a collapse then WTC5 makes you an idiot and a liar.
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It was a statement of fact and not an attack and if you don't believe that you may be an idiot. I like how that works. Thank you for the pointer.
How about that building I linked here that burnt everything except for the frame and didn't collapse?
The more you try and argue against the conspiracy the more you realize the official story doesn't make sense,..eh?
WWJD, your questions have already been asked. The truest and best answer came from Sturmm when he said he has no idea.
I was hoping for someone to explain away my objections. How can you hold onto a conspiracy theory without answers to questions like that?
It seems like whenever it's time to revisit this question, the discussion quickly becomes an argument about whether there were controlled demolitions. And anyone who has any other question about 911 is lumped in with the loonies.
But there are interesting questions and coincidences that have not had adequate answers.
You don't have to think there were controlled demolitions or missiles fired to feel that we haven't gotten the whole story.
For example, you can absolutely believe it was al Qaeda and still wonder if Team Cheney didn't know about it and choose to let it happen in order to gain authority - authority which led to unprovoked war and looting the US treasury.
Is that true? Probably not. But if we're talking about controlled demolitions, we aren't talking about that and some other troubling questions.
Can't think of one time where we have gone to war responding to an attack where the Executive branch did not make a power grab.
I have a feeling Donald Rumsfeld was thrilled when 9/11 happened. I think there's been some extensive evidence given to validate that in the thread. I don't know if he was in on it, but he sure gained a helluva lot from it. We can speculate all our lives as to who, why, when, how and never know. If you want to believe the "official story" that's fine. I find it much too far-fetched and I simply don't see it in what I saw take place. But, I don't really care if other people feel differently.
My gut feeling tells me, the people in the higher-ups (Clinton and Bush administrations) had been informed (Rice, and others, even testified) that something was coming down. The PNAC agenda stated a Pearl Harbor was needed... things like that. Even if I went along with the "official story" of how the attacks took place, I don't think VP Cheney, and others on his level, did very much, if anything, to actually thwart the attacks. They probably didn't know when, but they knew it was coming. Nothing was really done to thwart what took place. And, they got their Pearl Harbor! And, look at what came in the wake of it. Look what continues to be implemented. War is the health of the state. This "terror" crap keeps us at war ALL THE TIME! They took full advantage of the crisis. Listen to Wesley Clarke's entire interview on Democracy Now! I firmly believe, without a doubt, that "Were it not for the oil, it would be like Africa."
At this point, it really doesn't matter who was responsible for 9/11. What is more important is the realization of what our society has become and continues to become. We live in a perpetual "Terror threat" now. That's a really sh*tty way for future generations to try to understand the fundamentals of things like Liberty and Freedom! Those things are becoming totally redefined! And, our leadership acts on behalf of entities that are not in our (the citizens) best interest at all. Most people distrust at least half of the government. I'm not as generous. There are members of government that are genuinely good people and want what is best for their constituency. Just like there are genuinely good law enforcement officers, members of the clergy, etc. But, our government is SO in-bed with the most corrupt aspects of our society, and the culture breeds hate, division, fear, competition, dependency, you name it. Legislation like The Patriot Act and others similar to it, are just further and further from a once-free society. This country's agenda to invade and occupy the world is reaping what it has sown.
Yeah, that film makes a very false claim: "No explosions." There were definitely explosions and many testifying they heard them and were told, at the site, "they're bringing it down."
I've never heard explosions in all the video I've watched. And here's your thermite. (By the way, this is just part two of seven parts.)
Wtc5 didn't house Federal agencies. It stood quite well considering it got hit worse, eh?
There's more the one video, he hasn't looked very well.
There were explosions in that? I watched the whole thing and didn't hear the kind of explosions that bring down buildings. Like these:
For those of you who would like more than pictures below is a link for every picture. The inclusion of the Chechnya picture is the weakest one since what burned was only the facade but it makes for a great picture. Pictures make for great visuals but you really need to read the articles and take into account not just the similarities of the fire but the differences in building construction.
That none of the other buildings pictured were hit from debris from another falling building is another difference.
https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-wtc7-vs-chechnyas-tallest-building-fire-grozny-city-complex.t1804/
http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/pr...istoricFires/BuildingFires/interstateBank.htm
http://www.debunking911.com/madrid.htm
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/11/television-cultural-centre-tower-beijing-fire
Here are thirty minutes of sounds no one heard from building seven.
That, "Boom! Boom! Boom!"? That's important. And as many videos as there are floating around out there, none have that sound unless it was added later.
I promise. No one hired twenty suicide bombers to hijack four planes on 9/11 to cover up for the intentional destruction of buildings and murder of thousands of people just to cause a reason to attack Middle Eastern Countries.
The similarity in buildings falling that you people are seeing is called GRAVITY it makes things fall down when they aren't structurally sound...much like building seven after two other massive buildings shook the ground around it and fires completed the job.
That, "Boom! Boom! Boom!"? That's important. And as many videos as there are floating around out there, none have that sound unless it was added later.
I promise. No one hired twenty suicide bombers to hijack four planes on 9/11 to cover up for the intentional destruction of buildings and murder of thousands of people just to cause a reason to attack Middle Eastern Countries.
The similarity in buildings falling that you people are seeing is called GRAVITY it makes things fall down when they aren't structurally sound...much like building seven after two other massive buildings shook the ground around it and fires completed the job.
What's interesting is that we could have taken those powers away from the Executive Branch through the impeachment process. But we didn't.
As Bruce Fein - a conservative who favored impeachment - pointed out, if you let tools like warrantless wiretaps, kill lists, indefinite detention, black sites, etc, etc., get put in the president's tool box, and stay there for the next president to use, then they are forever a part of the Executive tool box.
We had 6+ years to say "no" to these expanded powers. We didn't.
Points like this are what really matter. Whether events like Pearl Harbor, 9/11, Gulf of Tonkin, whatever, are done as domestic-run false flags or by actual foreign aggressors, those in power should never be able to usurp, or expand their powers and it's even worse when they exploit those situations by threatening their likelihood for more to gain even more power. It's one reason I rarely, if ever, trust the Federal Government at all. They haven't EARNED trust. If anything, they've given abundant reason NOT to be trusted.
ETA:
The realization of this is why I don't really care about who "really" is responsible for 9/11. This thread is proof positive of people believing what is most convincing... to them. I have no doubt, that if the Bush Administration came out and openly admitted their collusion, people who favor the Bush Administration (partisans) would rationalize, justify and accept it as being "necessary" or some other acceptable notion. It's not as if those people are going to jail. People like that are always above the law. That is, yet another reason, I don't trust the Federal Government... they're rarely, if ever, held to the same standards as the rest of us.
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Completely immaterial. Four floors of a much smaller bldg completely collapsed into the interior of the bldg due solely to fire....something you maintain isn't possible. So either they partially demo'ed WTC5 for some bizarre reason or...bldgs CAN collapse due to fire.
Which is it?
It ABSOLUTELY matters who did what. Idiots who steadfastly maintain a fairy tale in the face of all evidence to the contrary are distractions to the reality. You and your fellow conspiracy nuts are a sideshow. YOU are the one who is - right here - maintaining that nothing can be done to stop them so you're just opting out. That's not true but the silly games the conspiracy nuts play allow it to a far greater extent than the partisans you reference.
Obama could get away with ANYTHING in 2008 because the birthers made his opposition look like stark raving madmen and forced everybody in opposition to him to waste time and energy responding to the question of whether he was a citizen or not. YOU are a huge part of the problem and the people in power love having you covering their backs..
Did WTC5 building collapse due to fire? Or, was it a few floors that collapsed? Even the film in the OP, the architects and engineers state clearly that the floors could have, and should have collapsed. That is perfectly feasible. But, not the entire building, at the same time, at free fall speed, straight down into virtually it's own footprints. The steel frame would never be simultaneously compromised, due to fire, to drop like that. If 100 lbs. of thermite can't bring it down (according to your sources), then low-burning office fires won't either. And, again, if there is a compromised portion of the building, then that would force an ASYMMETRICAL collapse.
Yeah, I'm "covering their backs." I criticize them, you praise them... as long as they're democrats. You, and people like you that eagerly put the criminals in office to begin with, then proceed to play "their party is worse than mine" while the candle burns at both ends. You see how your way works. It dwindles every day. Your way is all that is allowed, and you're trying to place blame on ME? People like ME, who you insist have no influence, and are never taken seriously? We never have any impact because we're nuts, and idiots? But, somehow we've hog-tied real progress that you want because we're critical of these professional criminals you endorse? If only that were true.
I don't recall conspiracy theories having the slightest affect on the Patriot Act being implemented. That was ready to go. If we're a sideshow, then you're driving the bus. Don't blame me when it goes off-course.
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So, this is what stupid reads like. "Idiots and conspiracy nuts". Don't forget tin-foil hat wearing loons. This is always the reply of those trying to stifle honest debate and by the ever loving shills for big government.
You point out one place where I've praised them, liar. And it's the conspiracy idiots who keep the Patriot Act alive. That's your team.
If the tin foil hat fits, Nat, wear it.
For you guys it's either, "Believe my idiotic rants or you're a shill for big govt!" It's idiotic.
No, saying that we have the backs of those in power is sheer idiocy. You obviously have not been paying attention. And yes, government has grown exponentially since 9/11. To government, it's a celebratory holiday.
That you don't recognize it doesn't make it any less true. The birthers would never acknowledge that they helped Obama by distracting his opponents...but they did, nevertheless, do just that.
And, I'm the liar.You've not pointed out anyone politically in this thread. It's not a political "who's fault is it" thread. But, you are a famous partisan hack. Please don't start pretending otherwise.
You're hopeless.
Before you showed back up we were all at least beginning to find some common ground. Thnaks for coming back and putting the focus back on what you think it should be. You're the epitome of selflessness! If everyone would never criticize the government, we'd all be happy, obedient and free from unpleasantness.
He's now decided that because people don't trust their government, it impedes his ideal outcome!
Now, suddenly, he's a staunch opponent of Barack Obama. Who knew?
Rule #1, when in a hole, quit digging. The deep hole of idiocy that you dig from is overwhelming.
