Since we are deep in debate about pizza, how the hell is New Haven pizza different from Chicago thin crust?
New Haven Pizza?
- Thread starter Camhawk2012
- Start date
A couple of differences. “Abeets” from New Haven is roughly the same thickness (maybe slightly thicker if anything), but it has a crispy bottom but chewy and foldable crust for the other two thirds of it. It’s chewy because while Chicago thin crust is rolled not tossed (which stretches glutens making it chewier and stretchier) and cooked for longer at a slower temperature to ensure crispy, cracker like crusts instead of the hard on outside but foldable crust. Also Chicago thin cut is usually square or tavern cut (but not always) while “Abeets” is almost always pie/diagonal cut.
The difference between NYC style “pizza pies” and New Haven “apizza”/“abeets” is even less. The NYC style is given a quick rise and then stretched repeatedly to emphasize the chewiness, softness and easy foldability. So really, if you have Chicago Thin style (no fold, cracker hard crust) on one side and NYC “pizza pie” style (all about the fold, softer texture but it stays together despite being thin because of its stretch ones), then New Haven apizza is right in between the two.
And my personal favorite is…..neither. My all time favorite style is Trenton/New Jersey style “tomato pies” which essentially has the same thin, stretchy foldable crust of the NYC “pizza pies” but it’s mozzarella on the bottom and a fresh raw tomato “sauce” (just crushed tomatoes, olive oil and a few herbs) that’s cooked on top. The plain cheese (and tomatoes of course) at Papa’s Tomato Pies is my favorite pizza period. My second favorite is the pepperoni pizza pie at Totonno’s in Coney Island NYC.
Always nice to see when one of your two remaining brain cells manages to fire off for the day.
Chicago thin crust is really good. New Haven pizza is dragged through coal dust before serving.
Solid description. More here:
The Definitive Guide to New Haven Pizza
There are regional pizza styles across the US, but none is perhaps more storied than New Haven-style pizza
www.eater.com
You forgot a big distinction: the New Haven coal fired brick ovens (Pepe, Sally’s and Modern) giving it the “New Haven Char”.
True, but SOME Chicago and especially NYC places use it as well. I guess it would be fair to say that New Haven always or almost always uses coal, while NYC and Chicago use all sorts of ovens (coal, wood, gas, and electric).
For example, most of my favorite NYC pizzas (Lombardis, Totonno’s, Grimaldis, John’s of Bleecker Street, Luzzo’s and Patsy’s) use coal, but that’s actually fairly uncommon compared to the others. DiFara which is probably the consensus number one pizza place in NYC (I disagree and say Totonno’s but it IS excellent) just uses a regular gas oven. Lucali’s which is maybe number 2 as a consensus uses a combo gas and wood oven. Razza (probably the current “hippest” pizza place to ID as number one as it’s technically in Jersey City so you can say the best NYC pizza is in Jersey) and Paulie Gee’s is woodfired, as is highly rated Numero 28, Ops, Milkflower and Franny’s. Meanwhile, most of the pizza places in NYC are gas fired like DiFara’s, but I think most of the really highly rated ones are Coal or Wood. Almost all of the Famous Rays, Ray’s Original, Famous Ray’s Original etc… copycats are gas, as is Joe’s, Prince Street, L&B, and of course the most famous, most classic NYC slice of all…Sbarro’s.
I would think it’s mostly fair to say that in NYC, the best old school places use coal, the best new places use wood and the majority and usually mediocre (with some few exclusions) slices are gas or electric (with Sauce being the only place pretty highly respected that uses an electric-only oven).
This is the best pizza in Chicago....Villa Nova near Midway Airport
Wow. I’ve actually had that place! Not far from SeatGeek Stadium when the Chicago Fire were there. Got the Italian sausage. Really good, but not the best ever. Top 10, maybe, but not a top 5 for me.
Pat's South Loop.......here the owner says 5 day dough. I have seen another video where a family member says it is a 6 day dough.
Here is another Pat's video. This one is from the Lincoln Park location. 6 day dough.....rolled out at 4 days and then refrigerated for 2 additional days.
Last edited:
Pizzamaking forum has a Pat's thread with more info. For the two days after rolling out, the dough is placed on butcher paper. This helps absorb moisture to ensure a crispy crust.
Last edited:
I lived across the street from pats for about 5 years. It was a once a week minimum order for me.
Trailerhassee Barnaby's may be dead due to horrendous mismanagement over the past decade but Barnaby's lives on around Chicagoland and in the South Bend area. Here is video from Jefferson Blvd location in SB.
Vito’s and nicks is outstanding
Check Please! | Vito & Nick's | Season 13 | Episode 12
Vito & Nick’s specializes in homemade, thin, crispy pizza and classic Italian dishes.
www.pbs.org
I’ve had Pat’s and it’s quite good, love that cracker thin crust. I’m a big fan of Pequods, it’s probably my favorite. Average pizza places in Chicago don’t exist for very long.
If the rumors are true that Solle’s is moving into the old Barnaby’s spot, then that’s a huge net gain.
There are two types of Chicago thin crust. One is the very thin cracker thickness but not necessarily cracker crunchy. Just very thin. Then theres a thin style but a litter thicker. Giordanos is known for this style. But both styles are very cheesy and always cut party style/square cut
I lived upstairs from Modern Apizza. Truly spectacular in every way.
Last edited:
Kenji spent 5 months studying Chicago Thin Crust Pizza. Here's what he learned.
www.nytimes.com
Use the links on his Linktree to access the article and recipes without a NYT subscription
linktr.ee
How to Make Real Chicago Thin-Crust Pizza at Home | Kenji’s Cooking Show
Kenji López-Alt Spent 5 Months Studying Chicago Thin-Crust Pizza. Here’s What He Learned.
Among his many revelations: a game-changing technique for yielding that crisp crust at home.
Use the links on his Linktree to access the article and recipes without a NYT subscription
J. Kenji López-Alt | TikTok | Linktree
View Kenjilopezalt’s Linktree to discover and stream music from top platforms like YouTube, Spotify here. Your next favorite track is just a click away!
linktr.ee
How to Make Real Chicago Thin-Crust Pizza at Home | Kenji’s Cooking Show
Did I miss something or did he put raw sausage on the pizza? Is 10 minutes @ 500 degrees enough time to fully cook chunks that size?Kenji spent 5 months studying Chicago Thin Crust Pizza. Here's what he learned.
Kenji López-Alt Spent 5 Months Studying Chicago Thin-Crust Pizza. Here’s What He Learned.
Among his many revelations: a game-changing technique for yielding that crisp crust at home.
Use the links on his Linktree to access the article and recipes without a NYT subscription
J. Kenji López-Alt | TikTok | Linktree
View Kenjilopezalt’s Linktree to discover and stream music from top platforms like YouTube, Spotify here. Your next favorite track is just a click away!
How to Make Real Chicago Thin-Crust Pizza at Home | Kenji’s Cooking Show
Kenji spent 5 months studying Chicago Thin Crust Pizza. Here's what he learned.
Kenji López-Alt Spent 5 Months Studying Chicago Thin-Crust Pizza. Here’s What He Learned.
Among his many revelations: a game-changing technique for yielding that crisp crust at home.
Use the links on his Linktree to access the article and recipes without a NYT subscription
J. Kenji López-Alt | TikTok | Linktree
View Kenjilopezalt’s Linktree to discover and stream music from top platforms like YouTube, Spotify here. Your next favorite track is just a click away!
How to Make Real Chicago Thin-Crust Pizza at Home | Kenji’s Cooking Show
Pizzamaking forum thread on Kenji's recipe
Mark Wiens Chicago pizza tour
Ultimate CHICAGO PIZZA TOUR!! 🍕 From Thin Crust to Deep Dish - Best Pizza Chicago!!
Ultimate CHICAGO PIZZA TOUR!! 🍕 From Thin Crust to Deep Dish - Best Pizza Chicago!!
This is the way Pagliai’s does it. Though I’d consider them pretty close to tavern style.
The dining room has been walled off and is a separate restaurant. It is carry out only so I had to eat it in the car. It was still good.
Ask somebody who loves and only loves New Haven style. It's like a cult. I'm too lazy to link it, but Dave Portnoy went to Piece in Chicago and basically shat on it. I don't claim to be a connoisseur of thin crust pizza, but I was surprised by that. Piece knocked my socks off. Incredible pizza. It could have been partly because of the alcohol and company though. Or maybe all of us need to get to New Haven. Fast.
I’m from Philly. Went to school in New Haven. It’s incredible. But I’m not averse to the plenty of good Greek styles you get in Philly and Jersey. And NY style speaks for itself. Sometimes you get a hankering for that.
But there’s something about that char mixed with high quality ingredients on the New Haven Apizza (Abeets) that makes you know you’re eating something different.
Villa Nova is good and well above your average pizza but is about 5th or 6th on the list in the area. Source - grew up 5 minutes west of there
J. Kenzi Lopez-Alt has updated his Chicago tavern style pizza video. I think it’s basically still the same information, just a little more polished production value.
There was a Barnaby's in Tallahassee. That pizza was fire.
Similar threads
