New Pitt coach

[thom67]

Apparently Pitt will hire Tim Flynn as new coach. They have interviewed Santoro and Flynn. For some reason Santoro was not offered the job and he was going to accept it, but he is going back to Lehigh. Most Pitt fans wanted Santoro to be the coach and believe Pitt has botched the hire.
What do any of you know about Tim Flynn(Edinboro) as a coach?

 

[ZepGraffiti]

He's done a helluva job @Edinboro. My understanding is Edinboro is/was only partially funded (only 5 schollies to work with?). If true, let's see what he can do w/9.9.

Maybe Santoro wanted more than Pitt was willing to give? Money & other program commitments? Speculating..

 

[Bulldog/Hawkeye]

I believe he told his team he would only leave if they were going all in on wrestling so I assume he had quite a few demands

 

[thom67]

I believe he told his team he would only leave if they were going all in on wrestling so I assume he had quite a few demands

Yes that is correct. Supposedly Pitt was willing to do it and he came for the interview. Everyone thought it was a done deal, but Pitt AD hesitated with the offer and Lehigh made a counter offer that made Pat stay at Lehigh. Pitt has a long history of screwing things up regards to wrestling. It was thought that it would be different this time, but they will screw this up again.

 

[Azchief32]

I really like Tim Flynn. Back in 2015, they were P.A. State champs if measuring by NCAA finish...this was when Cael didn't have strictly top ten guys. Always figured he must be a heck of a coach...always some tough Boro guys.

 

[LaxHawk174]

Boro's team reminds me a lot of SDSUs team this year, and other examples over the years. Not the most talent filled roster, but the guys are well coached, and wrestle you hard for 7 minutes. Even guys who are undermatched wrestle tough, then you have a few top 100 ranked kids coming out of high school who thrive and develop into AAs/title contenders. All with limited funding. I think Flynn will definitely turn Pitt around from where it currently is.

 

[El-Jefe]

Flynn hasn't accepted yet. He might -- and he would definitely be next in line -- but never count out Pitt's ability to screw it up and be stuck having to hire in house. And for all the advantages Pitt should have, there's a lot of negatives as well. It's not a no brainer decision for someone like Flynn.

If it isn't obvious enough how good of a coach he is: he's been doing this at Edinboro with around 7 scholarships.

 

[WildTurk]

Why does Edinboro get so few scholarships?

 

[El-Jefe]

The PSAC (PA State Athletic Conference) schools are D2 in all sports. 4 of them (Edinboro, Bloomsburg, Lock Haven, Clarion) are D1 in wrestling.

They're much smaller schools with limited administrative help. The PSAC schools are mostly hurting financially, so more help really isn't an option. They have smaller alumni bases (i.e., smaller donor pools) and are not as good academically, so they have fewer big hitter alumni.

The other 3 are around 4.5-5.0 rides. Edinboro is the best supported of them because Bruce Baumgartner is their AD.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Why does Edinboro get so few scholarships?

PSU stole some and won't give'em back.

 

[thom67]

It looks like Flynn is staying at Edinboro. That means Pitt screwed up royally or they have someone better in mind. I will go for the former.

 

[Vito13]

Loyalty is deeper than most people know. Money doesn't always talk. Other things are more important in life. Good for the Boro that he is staying.

 

[CumberlandHawk]

If I was Pitt I would make an offer to Metcalf. Why not take a chance on a young guy with a lot of potential.

 

[Omahahawk86]

If I was Pitt I would make an offer to Metcalf. Why not take a chance on a young guy with a lot of potential.

Because he has a job.

 

[SPOONER]

Because he has a job.

And therefore can't take a better one? Awful logic.

But I don't agree with the "just go after Metcalf" logic anyway.

 

[Omahahawk86]

And therefore can't take a better one? Awful logic.

But I don't agree with the "just go after Metcalf" logic anyway.

Ah got it. Spooner decides Metcalfs logic. Did you ask Brent if he'd rather coach Pitt or at the otc? Maybe that's the level he wants to coach at. I'm going to assume if Brent wanted to coach at a college he would be doing so.

 

[SPOONER]

Ah got it. Spooner decides Metcalfs logic. Did you ask Brent if he'd rather coach Pitt or at the otc? Maybe that's the level he wants to coach at. I'm going to assume if Brent wanted to coach at a college he would be doing so.

I guess Iowa shouldn't have offered Brands, PSU shouldn't have offered Cael, ISU shouldn't have offered Dresser, Pitt shouldn't have offered Flynn, etc. After all, they already had jobs.

 

[pablow]

If I were Pitt I'd hire David Taylor and bring an older estalbished coach in on an interim basis until DT is through wrestling. Since 90% of coaching occurs prior to college and recruiting is everything, bring him now before somebody else gets him. DT could recruit the hell out of PA and OH.

 

[woodsiding]

If I was Pitt I would make an offer to Metcalf. Why not take a chance on a young guy with a lot of potential.

Obviously, Metcalf has really good resume as a wrestler and would be a great pick up for any staff out there. But we're talking about the head coaching job and a D1 school and right now Metcalf has a one line coaching resume that says assistant coach at Prairie High School.

 

[El-Jefe]

Called it. http://www.goerie.com/sports/20170402/flynn-to-remain-wrestling-coach-at-edinboro

As to "why wouldn't Pitt go after (fill in the blank)": because they're Pitt. They already publicly announced their finalists were Santoro, Flynn, and the 2 in house assistant coaches. Whoever they were going to pursue, they already have. Including Rosselli, word is he declined an interview.

Remember that they kept Stottlemyre around until he petrified Minkel style, they hired Peters in house without interviewing external candidates, and they fired Peters not for performance but for failing to disclose the Midlands hookers incident to the school.

In the meantime, Pitt somehow (1) doesn't have the full 9.9 rides (they have 9.9 in state, but not 9.9 with non-residents); (2) has a really bad practice facility; (3) does not have an RTC; (4) has an administration and alumni/fan base that aspire to top 15-20. The ONLY thing going for them is proximity to recruits who have a lot of other options.

(To be fair, the new AD was a wrestling supporter at Eastern Michigan, and apparently was a big part of Ohio State hiring Tan Tom. But now she has other priorities, like hoops and a football program nobody goes to watch.)

Pitt has let the program stagnate for a couple decades, and coaches have noticed. Even if the AD is supportive, nobody believes the school and alumni will commit to bring the program up to the back half of the 20th century.

 

[dicemen99]

El Jefe said it all.

Ideas on here like Pitt should offer Brent Metcalf or David Taylor are just fantasies because these guys are smart and obviously you can not compete at the highest levels unless you have the administration all in, which should be obvious is not going to happen after this last go round (again).

When you look at it from an outside, non wrestling biased perspective, it should not be a surprise - there is no financial reward to be gained by investing in non-revenue sports. But this still had me disappointed. Absolutely the climate that the sport exists in right now.

Pitt as a power would be fantastic for anyone who loves college wrestling - PSU fans included (except our resident Pitt haters, like you guys have with your ISU haters). As your coach pointed out earlier this year, competition makes everyone raise their level.

 

[woodsiding]

El Jefe said it all.

Ideas on here like Pitt should offer Brent Metcalf or David Taylor are just fantasies...

Sidenote: Your post made me fantasize about a program run by co-head coaches Taylor and Metcalf...
That would some hard working, tough as nails, f**-loving animals.

 

[bbwretler]

If I were Pitt I'd hire David Taylor and bring an older estalbished coach in on an interim basis until DT is through wrestling. Since 90% of coaching occurs prior to college and recruiting is everything, bring him now before somebody else gets him. DT could recruit the hell out of PA and OH.

You do exactly like Iowa did when they brought Dan in. Bring him in as an assistant with the understanding of when he's done wrestling the head job is his. Assuming Pitt wants a david taylor.

 

[El-Jefe]

You do exactly like Iowa did when they brought Dan in. Bring him in as an assistant with the understanding of when he's done wrestling the head job is his. Assuming Pitt wants a david taylor.

Why would David Taylor commit himself to a place that won't commit to win? And, if he were to be a head coach in waiting, wouldn't he want to learn from a good, experienced coach?

 

[pablow]

El Jefe said it all.

Ideas on here like Pitt should offer Brent Metcalf or David Taylor are just fantasies because these guys are smart and obviously you can not compete at the highest levels unless you have the administration all in, which should be obvious is not going to happen after this last go round (again).

When you look at it from an outside, non wrestling biased perspective, it should not be a surprise - there is no financial reward to be gained by investing in non-revenue sports. But this still had me disappointed. Absolutely the climate that the sport exists in right now.

Pitt as a power would be fantastic for anyone who loves college wrestling - PSU fans included (except our resident Pitt haters, like you guys have with your ISU haters). As your coach pointed out earlier this year, competition makes everyone raise their level.

Never say never - Cornell did it.

 

[El-Jefe]

Never say never - Cornell did it.

Cornell had a big hitter wrestling alum donor bankroll the whole thing.

IDK if such a person exists at Pitt. If so, they haven't found him. They may not have even looked all that hard.

 

[jvclark]

Why would David Taylor commit himself to a place that won't commit to win? And, if he were to be a head coach in waiting, wouldn't he want to learn from a good, experienced coach?

Jefe. I think you are right on DT, or any quality young name. With that said, maybe we need to put the cart before the horse, so to speak.

Maybe, Pitt and relevant alumni would step up IF/AFTER they were to get a name like Taylor or Metcalf in the room. With the amount of top high school talent in that state that doesn't get sucked up by PSU, it wouldn't take much to get that program going in the right direction

Again, I say maybe. It seems like several of you have some good knowledge here.

 

[lionlover]

If I were Pitt I'd hire David Taylor and bring an older estalbished coach in on an interim basis until DT is through wrestling. Since 90% of coaching occurs prior to college and recruiting is everything, bring him now before somebody else gets him. DT could recruit the hell out of PA and OH.[/QUOTE]
His pedigree and the location would make him an ideal candidate. Good call.

 

[El-Jefe]

Jefe. I think you are right on DT, or any quality young name. With that said, maybe we need to put the cart before the horse, so to speak.

Maybe, Pitt and relevant alumni would step up IF/AFTER they were to get a name like Taylor or Metcalf in the room. With the amount of top high school talent in that state that doesn't get sucked up by PSU, it wouldn't take much to get that program going in the right direction

Again, I say maybe. It seems like several of you have some good knowledge here.

I get what you're saying, sometimes you have to lean forward. Of course that's from Pitt's perspective, not the coaching candidates'.

They're not getting a DT type because the PWC is so outdated. It's basically a youth club with a little money for a couple varsity guys to spend a week at the USOTC or maybe go to a freestyle tourney. Nobody there for him to train with. So it would have to be a younger guy who's retired from competition.

That doesn't excuse them from not interviewing an external younger head coach or external experienced assistant. IDK who they approached, so this is all spitballing ... but I'm surprised to have seen none of Kolat, Scott Moore, Acevado, Ward, Jaggers, John Hughes, Hahn, Pritzlaff, Bormet, Perry ... you get the idea. (Kolat I get because Campbell just invested in the program -- hey, wait, why isn't Pitt doing that?)

Their candidate list (2 guys in their mid 50s; other 2 are alums on staff) tells me Pitt wasn't looking for the best available coach; rather a lifer, bonus if he's the best available. Or, maybe they intended to hire in house all along, and only brought in Santoro and Flynn to pick their brains (in which case, why bother with those other guys?).

Anyway, back to your point: a ton of PA kids are at Iowa, Ohio State, Cornell, Virginia, VT, NC State ... but Pitt still has recruited decently. They need better talent but the cupboard isn't bare. They've just underperformed (in some cases, badly). A better coach could generate results that theoretically would help alumni to open their checkbooks. With the choices left, we probably won't know for several years if this is even a possibility.

 

[thom67]

I disagree with recruiting at Pitt. Pitt has not recruited one top PA recruit in years except a couple who had baggage that others did not want. Recruiting has been a major problem at Pitt for years.

 

[Needanap]

I disagree with recruiting at Pitt. Pitt has not recruited one top PA recruit in years except a couple who had baggage that others did not want. Recruiting has been a major problem at Pitt for years.

Sad but true

 

[El-Jefe]

What baggage did Solomon have?

 

[Needanap]

What baggage did Solomon have?

EJ - I am not aware of any issues related to Solomon. Have heard otherwise and that he is one of the kids that is holding the Pitt program together.

While he had a very impressive HS career, 2x PA state champ (195 and 220), and Fargo AA IRC., I wouldn't categorize him as a top PA recruit because of him being a very undersized HWt.

I don't remember how he was ranked coming out of HS while projected to be an undersized HWT. When I read thom67's post I was thinking of kids like Nolf, Joseph, Kemerer, Pletcher, Lee, Teasdale etc as recent "Top PA" recruits that grew up in Pitt's backyard.

 

[El-Jefe]

EJ - I am not aware of any issues related to Solomon. Have heard otherwise and that he is one of the kids that is holding the Pitt program together.

While he had a very impressive HS career, 2x PA state champ (195 and 220), and Fargo AA IRC., I wouldn't categorize him as a top PA recruit because of him being a very undersized HWt.

I don't remember how he was ranked coming out of HS while projected to be an undersized HWT. When I read thom67's post I was thinking of kids like Nolf, Joseph, Kemerer, Pletcher, Lee, Teasdale etc as recent "Top PA" recruits that grew up in Pitt's backyard.

I agree with your basic point that the superstar recruits in SW PA have gone elsewhere. No question. They do have enough talent to do better than they are. And they need better talent.

And you're right about Solomon's character, which is why I cited him immediately. He's a good dude. (Full disclosure, I went to HS with his dad.) He was a Fargo champ and was #1 nationally at 195 his last 2 years. (He was 6-189, 2-220, 1-195, 1-195, then went up to 220 for Dapper Dan.) He was projected at 197 and I think he would've been a serious contender there next year if he could've stayed. But Rizzo didn't pan out (to put it mildly), and they needed someone, so he went up. And, yes, he's quite undersized at heavy.

Ironically, when Maryland recruited him, Kerry told him he'd have to go 184 because they were certain Snyder was staying home. Now they're both at heavy.

 

[thom67]

EJ - I am not aware of any issues related to Solomon. Have heard otherwise and that he is one of the kids that is holding the Pitt program together.

While he had a very impressive HS career, 2x PA state champ (195 and 220), and Fargo AA IRC., I wouldn't categorize him as a top PA recruit because of him being a very undersized HWt.

I don't remember how he was ranked coming out of HS while projected to be an undersized HWT. When I read thom67's post I was thinking of kids like Nolf, Joseph, Kemerer, Pletcher, Lee, Teasdale etc as recent "Top PA" recruits that grew up in Pitt's backyard.

What baggage did Solomon have?

Was not including Solomon regarding baggage. I did not include him as a top recruit compared to Lee, Teasdale, kemerer, Joseph, Nolf, etc.

 

[JustWrestle133]

Was not including Solomon regarding baggage. I did not include him as a top recruit compared to Lee, Teasdale, kemerer, Joseph, Nolf, etc.

Solomon was a highly thought of recruit. He was #24 overall in his class. However, he was the 3rd ranked recruit for Pitt that year. In fact Pitt had 4 recruits in the top 26, including the #11 overall (Weircoch), #22 (Racciato), #24 (Solomon), and #26 (Bright) Those 4 should be Seniors this coming year and be very competitive. Unfortunately, the most productive of the 4 was Bright, who was ranked in the top 10 as a True Freshmen and looked destined for big things, before getting into trouble off the mat and leaving school.

Since that class, the best Pitt has managed was the 2016 recruiting cycle, in which they landed 3 recruits in the top 70. The class consisted of #41 Wentzel, #57 Dietrich, and #65 Bell.

In 2015, Pitt had one recruit in the top 100, #95 Campbell (who is now transferring to Ohio State). They also had 125 recruit L.J. Bentley, who while not ranked in the top 200 even, has blossomed into a 2X NCAA qualifier, who was nationally ranked most of the season.

In 2014, Pitt has ZERO top 100 recruits

In 2013, Pitt had 6 top 100 recruits, including 4 in the top 26!

Big drop off.

It should also be noted that Flynn wanted 9.9 out of State Scholarships it sounds like. A reasonable demand considering how close they are to the Ohio border and the success that Flynn has has with recruits from the Cleveland area. It could be argued that Flynn has recruited that area better than just about anyone now that Drew Pariano is no longer at Northwestern. Michigan in about 2004-2005 had 5 of their starters from Cleveland. Flynn had 2 of his recent higher profile AA's come from Cleveland in Habat and Honeycutt, both were from the same youth program in the famed Westshore Wrestling Club (the same club that Heffernan brothers, Brands rival- Alan Fried, Metcalf's thorn (at least once)- Lance Palmer, and current AA's Dean Heil, and Ty Walz, among numerous other AA's over the years). A feeder program from St. Edward HS, a National Powerhouse. Flynn wants to keep that pipeline open obviously, but only have 9.9 IN STATE scholarships means that recruiting a kid from Northeast Ohio would cost quite a bit more of a percentage of the 9.9. I realize this is still quite a bit more than he had to work with at 'Boro, but the expectations would be quite a bit higher as well and just about everything at Pitt is lackluster at the moment.

Pitt really blew it. I also hear, L.J. Bentley may ask for a release. Bentley was one of the only bright spots this year at 125, being a NCAA qualifier and Nationally ranked much of the year. Ironically, he is from St. Edward High School, although from a different youth club. He is form the same youth club (Longwood) as J. Jaggers, current Ohio State assistant coach. What weight does Ohio State desperately need for next year? 125, 157 (Tom Ryan's son Jake is here), and 165 (Campbell already announced his transferring to fill this weight). Coincidence? Nothing confirmed at all at this point for Bentley, strictly rumors. Hopefully he stays and helps rebuild Pitt's program. If he does end up asking for his release though, I would not be surprised if he also ends up in Columbus with Campbell and unless Pitt makes a quality hire, I could see that happening. Hopefully, Pitt doesn't screw this up any worse than they already have.

 

[El-Jefe]

Amateur hour at the Tower of Ignorance. (Well, not even close to hour, and amateur would be an upgrade.)

Read the whole thread.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

The PSAC (PA State Athletic Conference) schools are D2 in all sports. 4 of them (Edinboro, Bloomsburg, Lock Haven, Clarion) are D1 in wrestling.

They're much smaller schools with limited administrative help. The PSAC schools are mostly hurting financially, so more help really isn't an option. They have smaller alumni bases (i.e., smaller donor pools) and are not as good academically, so they have fewer big hitter alumni.

The other 3 are around 4.5-5.0 rides. Edinboro is the best supported of them because Bruce Baumgartner is their AD.

And they have the coolest mat! Does Slippery Rock still have a team?

 

[SetonHallPirate]

And they have the coolest mat! Does Slippery Rock still have a team?

No. They dropped in 2006, after having ten East Regional finalists. Derek DelPorto, their coach, went to an Eastern Michigan program that was consistently at the bottom of the MAC, and brought them to respectability before getting a job outside of the wrestling world.

 

[GOLDBANGER]

The PSAC (PA State Athletic Conference) schools are D2 in all sports. 4 of them (Edinboro, Bloomsburg, Lock Haven, Clarion) are D1 in wrestling.

They're much smaller schools with limited administrative help. The PSAC schools are mostly hurting financially, so more help really isn't an option. They have smaller alumni bases (i.e., smaller donor pools) and are not as good academically, so they have fewer big hitter alumni.

The other 3 are around 4.5-5.0 rides. Edinboro is the best supported of them because Bruce Baumgartner is their AD.

I literally just had a former head coach of one of the PSAC schools tell me an alumnus wanted to donate $1 million to their program but the administration was going to put it in the general sports fund and only about $200 thousand would have gone to wrestling. The donor pulled his money when he found this out. I was unaware this nonsense was going on at these schools. It's no wonder these smaller schools, even with alumni support, have tanked.