Nick Moore

[sloehawk]

Originally posted by Sidenote:
Was McDonough mentally broken last year? Or was it because he was incapable of using his shoulder?

It's not that he is just "dinged up" it's that he is wrestling with one leg and one arm.

There is absolutely no comparing Matt and Nick and how they go about their business, injury free or injured. They are CLEARLY different types of wrestlers in every way, shape and form. Nick came on like gangbusters last year, which was great to see, then he had a bad Nationals. Bummer for sure. He's 21-10 this year, which doesn't even seem like he's even wrestled that much (Sorensen has 38 matches, Kelly 33).

Matt McDonough with his obvious injury, was 22-3 entering the National Tournament, with 2 losses to National Champion Delgado, and the other to Alan Waters. He beat Megaludis and Nahshon Garrett during the regular season, along with a host of other nationally ranked guys. Then he gets bounced from the NCAA's by Top 10's Garrett and Sprenkle (no offense to Mr. Sprenkle, but he wasn't ever going to beat a healthy McD if they wrestled 100 times) in OT.

There is no comparing the Senior Seasons of these two guys. Not even in the same stratosphere.

 

[Azchief32]

Originally posted by Sidenote:
Was McDonough mentally broken last year? Or was it because he was incapable of using his shoulder?

It's not that he is just "dinged up" it's that he is wrestling with one leg and one arm.

Once again, this is an emotional argument. Was Nick Moore wrestling with one leg and one arm in his last two matches? Sorry, but I think that is quite the overstatement.

 

[Azchief32]

Originally posted by wahlberg:

Originally posted by Azchief32:

Originally posted by wahlberg:

Originally posted by Hawknado:
Wahlberg, I think it might be that Moore was a highly sought after recruit. Mike Kelly, I don't think as much.

I understand that that is the thought process for those blasting Moore and holding the double standard when comparing him to Mike Kelly. However, I feel it is faulty logic.

How do you think Moore became better than Kelly and garnered a more highly sought after recruiting status in the first place? By chance? No, he had to work extremely hard to do that. What does he get in return from some fans on this board? A double standard that works against him?

Somehow, folks imagine that Kelly wants it more or works harder for it when they achieve the same thing and that is just not reality. Both want it. Both work their a** off. Both deserve that respect from so-called hawkeye fans, not just Kelly.

And remember, Kelly beat Moore their redshirt year so the thought that Kelly has progressed more than Moore since then doesn't entirely hold either, especially when you factor in Moore's current injuries.

Wahlberg...One can see that Kelly gives it his all; the guy never stops. Yes he makes stupid mistakes sometimes and his skill is limited but he is an all out guy. Nick is a guy who beat the Caldwell last year but then loses first round in the NCAAs as a five seed. He craps out and loses to a guy that was 14-17 and loses to a 16-14 guy in the B1G. When it doesn't count, then pins Wanzek and Hammond (revenge from the dual loss). While he might be injured (who isn't dinged up at this time of year), there just seems to be a between the ears problem. His posture, lack of intensity...just seems that he is ready to be done.

Being critical of a wrestler does not mean one is casting dispersions on his name or wishing him harm. It's not personal. We have been critical of Jeva all year...guess what? We are right because Jeva showed up to wrestle this weekend. That match vs Dardanes is what he is capable of.

Again, by stating that "one can see that Kelly gives it his all..." you imply that Moore does not and I am stating that that is asinine and IS, in fact, "casting dispersions on his name." Now, a between the ears problem MAY exist, but that would not mean that he is not giving it his all. He may lack confidence due to feeling he is not as effective with his injuries, for example.

Are you also saying Nick gave it his all against a 14-17 kid in the first round of B1G? Or did he give it his all against Wanzek and Hammond for ninth? One poster said his arm and leg are "useless"...although he looked decent and very active versus Wanzek and Hammond with not many signs of injury. There is a difference between being hurt and injured. Also, the mental aspect of wrestling is huge.

At one point, Nick was a top four guy but has been very inconsistent his whole career...not just this year. Pointing this out is not asinine or hating on him. It's a wrestling discussion board. I hope Nick catches lighting in a bottle and AAs at nationals. That goes for Jeva, Kelly or any other guy that wrestles for Iowa.

 

[Shafthawk]

Originally posted by wahlberg:

Originally posted by CP84 2.0:

Originally posted by lookleft goright:
One can only imagine how difficult it is to survive in the Iowa room for 5 years. Then to have to be lambasted by some people for not living up to expectations seems like a bit much.

Where is the motivation to excel if you are going to be disparaged and insulted by people who do not know you and who want something from you (a national title or a happy feeling for winning a title) and give nothing in return or do nothing to help you to achieve it.

As I have said on other posts, Nick Moore has handled himself with total class his whole 5 years as a Hawk and I would be proud to have him as a son.

This is such BS. The wrestling program or any other sport wouldn't exist if it weren't for the fans and their financial support. This program and the fans expect to win championships every single year. If some people can't handle the heat they need to get out of the kitchen. Iowa wrestling and the fan support doesn't exist to create a bunch of feel good stories and certificates of participation. Nobody is smearing Nick Moore's character. They are criticizing his performance on the mat which hasn't been Iowa quality wrestling. If you want mediocrity and feel good stories from this sport then I suggest you find another program to cheer for.

HAHAHAHAHA! You want to think you matter to the program because you buy a ticket?!? Get lost. People waving around and flaunting their checkbooks claiming they are what makes the team a success is not what the world's oldest and greatest sport is all about and certainly isn't an Iowa wrestling mantra. I am all for entertaining the fans and filling seats but don't start to get a big head because of your "financial support." I buy tickets and I know I mean nothing compared to what Nick Moore or anyone else (even 5-year practice room guys who never crack the lineup) mean to this team.

People HAVE been smearing Moore's character on these boards and it is laughable considering the hypocrisy of sitting behind a keyboard throwing stones. I want success from our guys as much as the rest of you but that doesn't mean I'm going to bash guys when they don't achieve it, especially not from behind my keyboard.

You don't think fan support(ultimately dollars) are important to the sport of College Wrestling? There is a reason that the number of College Wrestling programs is dwarfed by the number of College Football and Basketball Programs.

I'm not saying buying tickets gives a fan free reign to do whatever he wants. But, the almighty Iowa Football Program just got a big ole' message sent to it last Bowl season.

Wrestling doesn't exactly have a rock-solid footing in College Sports, to be able to afford any kind of "we don't need the fans sentiment". If the day ever comes where the fans stop being heavily vested in this program, the existence of the program may start to become questionable.

 

[rossel 33]

Two ways to look at this:

1. Nick Moore is a disappointment because he did not fulfill our expectations of reaching AA status, and is now losing to much lower ranked opponents, therefore deserving of criticism.

2. Nick Moore seems to have regressed and there may actually be a reason for it - injuries. The fact that he is still out there battling for the team means he can still beat anyone else from Iowa competing for the starting spot, despite his injuries, and like McDonough and M* before him, is showing the heart of a lion and trying his best, and should be commended.

I am in the second group.

 

[wasdt21]

that 14-17 kid that beat moore wrestled pretty dang tough for the whole tournament,just sayin.As far as people posting negative stuff,we live in America we enjoy free speech(thank you AZ and AF for protecting that right for me). As someone who has free speech im saying you guys with your negative posts probably never laced em up at the level of the people you are being negative about,therefore your opinions are pretty darn worthless.but you do have the right to express them in an anonamous cowardly way.

 

[McCulloughd]

Originally posted by wasdt21:
that 14-17 kid that beat moore wrestled pretty dang tough for the whole tournament,just sayin.As far as people posting negative stuff,we live in America we enjoy free speech(thank you AZ and AF for protecting that right for me). As someone who has free speech im saying you guys with your negative posts probably never laced em up at the level of the people you are being negative about,therefore your opinions are pretty darn worthless.but you do have the right to express them in an anonamous cowardly way.

Well put.

 

[sloehawk]

Originally posted by wasdt21:
that 14-17 kid that beat moore wrestled pretty dang tough for the whole tournament,just sayin.As far as people posting negative stuff,we live in America we enjoy free speech(thank you AZ and AF for protecting that right for me). As someone who has free speech im saying you guys with your negative posts probably never laced em up at the level of the people you are being negative about,therefore your opinions are pretty darn worthless.but you do have the right to express them in an anonamous cowardly way.

I'm making the assumption you're a male. If that is true, do you have or have you ever had an opinion about childbirth? How about mammograms? If you've never "laced'em up" as a woman, you opinion is pretty darn worthless isn't it? Yet I'm sure you've had an opinion on many things female. Ever have an opinion about Women's Basketball? Ever play Women's Basketball? I'd call that being a hypocrite. See how fun this can be?

I want to see if I've got this right. Sounds like a guy who's wrestled at the DIII College level is a chump who can't comment because he was never at "that level". How about NAIA? I just want to make sure I've got the rules straight. What about the Iowa backups who may or may not be able to beat all these "lower" level wrestlers? Can they comment or not? This is confusing. I can't skate very well, never played Hockey, never participated in a Formula One race, so I guess I'll never again be able to make a comment about either, unless of course it's "positive". LOL!

In all my years, I've never once seen a girl playing on an NFL field, but I've seen tons of Women commenting from the sidelines, in studios and even broadcasting Men's Football right at the stadium to the national airwaves. I bet that one about drives people like you nuts! And none of them have ever said a disparaging word about an athlete right?

Seems to me is what you're saying is it's OK to have an opinion, like you just threw out, but its only OK if it's "positive" and agrees with you? Sound about right? Should I check with you before I post, and see if my comments are "positive" enough for you?

There are still places on Earth where having an opinion can get you thrown in prison. I suggest you move there and see which method you prefer.

And lastly, there have been quite a few "regulars" to this board who openly state they've never wrestled, but here they are. Sounds to me like their opinion doesn't mean a damn thing, positive or negative in your eyes, yet here you are. I suggest we have an open listing of posters credentials, because I'd hate to judge someone based only on their posts and the knowledge they possess being derived only from watching from the sidelines, and never having "laced'em up" (I have), without really knowing if they're qualified to comment or not.

As for me, I think you can have any damn opinion you want, no matter how stupid it is in my mind. It can be positive or negative, brilliant or ignorant, but you for damn sure can give it, regardless of your status as DI wrestler in a former life or not.

 

[MARION_HAWK]

Originally posted by rossel 33:
Two ways to look at this:

1. Nick Moore is a disappointment because he did not fulfill our expectations of reaching AA status, and is now losing to much lower ranked opponents, therefore deserving of criticism.

2. Nick Moore seems to have regressed and there may actually be a reason for it - injuries. The fact that he is still out there battling for the team means he can still beat anyone else from Iowa competing for the starting spot, despite his injuries, and like McDonough and M* before him, is showing the heart of a lion and trying his best, and should be commended.

I am in the second group.

Well said rossel. I am in the second group as well. Wish Nick the best at Nationals.

 

[TEW]

I imagine a number of our wrestlers did not meet their expectations last weekend. No one member of the team lost the opportunity to be stand alone BIG champs.
I do question like others whether our coaching and recruiting is all it could be. To me this is where the magnifying glass should be focused.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[86_90]

Originally posted by McCulloughd:

Originally posted by wasdt21:
that 14-17 kid that beat moore wrestled pretty dang tough for the whole tournament,just sayin.As far as people posting negative stuff,we live in America we enjoy free speech(thank you AZ and AF for protecting that right for me). As someone who has free speech im saying you guys with your negative posts probably never laced em up at the level of the people you are being negative about,therefore your opinions are pretty darn worthless.but you do have the right to express them in an anonamous cowardly way.

Well put.

If you took the time to watch many of the non-Iowa matches on Sunday, you would have seen a lot of banged up wrestlers with noticeable limps, wraps and other obvious signs of significant injury.

Opinion:

At the end of the day, Nick Moore gets dinged on this board because, if you actually have watched his matches from year one to year five, he has not improved much. Has he been injured all 5 years? Is he part of that problem or does it need to be placed at the feet of the coaches or is there blame to share? This is a big part of the Nick Moore narrative.

@165 the Iowa cupboard is bare, so he soldiers on and the fans are left with what-ifs. The fans/friends on this site have done more cheering for Nick Moore than jeering by a large degree over the past 5 years, largely because of Nick's pedigree as he entered Iowa. It's been a bumpy ride. Some hold out hope for a final push @NCAAs for him (I'm in that camp and it is because of the potential he has flashed at times during his Iowa career, not actual past results when it matters most, and frankly it makes me look like a foolish homer to think this year will be different.)

At the same time, many astute observers on this site and others have questioned some of his on mat actions during the Reign of Moore. Likewise, he has been penciled in as a possible NCAA finalist for 2 years running @165 on this board--he has had a ton of support. However, his results have not matched expectation, which were sky high, and in fact he hasn't come close to having any success @NCAAs. Was Nick Moore always over-rated and struggled to live up to the high expectations?

Why? Fans are trying to figure it out and talk it out online. Why? That is what you see when you look at Nick Moore comments on this site by and large. Posters are giving opinions of why? Some are more PC than others, but at the heart of it they are trying to explain why.

If anyone knows the definitive Nick Moore Iowa Wrestling Story, please tell.

 

[pablow]

Originally posted by sloehawk:

Originally posted by wasdt21:
that 14-17 kid that beat moore wrestled pretty dang tough for the whole tournament,just sayin.As far as people posting negative stuff,we live in America we enjoy free speech(thank you AZ and AF for protecting that right for me). As someone who has free speech im saying you guys with your negative posts probably never laced em up at the level of the people you are being negative about,therefore your opinions are pretty darn worthless.but you do have the right to express them in an anonamous cowardly way.

And lastly, there have been quite a few "regulars" to this board who openly state they've never wrestled, but here they are. Sounds to me like their opinion doesn't mean a damn thing, positive or negative in your eyes, yet here you are. I suggest we have an open listing of posters credentials, because I'd hate to judge someone based only on their posts and the knowledge they possess being derived only from watching from the sidelines, and never having "laced'em up" (I have), without really knowing if they're qualified to comment or not.

I agree with Sloehawk here. While a non-wrestler may not have any insight into weight cutting for example, generally, a long time wrestling fan can develop into a knowledgeable student of the sport despite not having wrestled.

According to the "you've never laced em up" argument, Bill Belichick should have no right to comment on, let alone coach a pro football team. [Belichick was a "member" of a DIII football team, but his sports were lacrosse and squash]. Baylor highly successful mens basketball coach Scott Drew never even made his varsity basketball team in high school.

I don't agree that a non-wrestler's opinion are necessarily "pretty darn worthless."

 

[Azchief32]

Well put 86 and Sloe. For the record, I wrestled 12 years in various states. If my level of wrestling were a neighborhood, I would be Compton and Nick Moore would be Beverly Hills. Still, one thing that draws me to this sport, more so than football and baseball...both of which I played as well, is that you can't get by on natural talent in wrestling. God decides who to give 100 mph fastballs...He can't give you a takedown with 20 seconds left in the match.

If only D-1 level guys were allowed to comment, this board would be pretty bare.

 

[minnhawkeye]

Well I never wrestled because in the 50"s my high school didn't have wrestling..The only school in my area that had it was Blue Earth and I did not live there at that time. I did know and run around with some of the blue earth wrestlers and went to watch lots of there meets. (Cooper,Deleon bros,and others)
When I got married I moved to Blue Earth and my 2 sons wrestled then for coach Jack Eustice . I know how much they had to work hard. My oldest son in his Jr year to make the team cut from 148 in football to 119 wrestling it was a long winter for him and he did qualify for state.
Guess what I'm saying is, never myself "laced them up" but know how much sweat and work goes into this sport.
So roughly I've been around wrestling for over 60 years..
Also I admit I don't know it all but do feel have a right to make a comment.

 

[wasdt21]

excellant

 

[overeasy]

Originally posted by Azchief32:

"Being critical of a wrestler does not mean one is casting dispersions on his name or wishing him harm."

That completely depends upon HOW that criticism is worded or phrased. Some people criticize in a way that makes them seem personally affronted by the athlete who has failed to perform up to their expectations. Other people can offer a critique of the same situation without sounding arrogant or pompous or disparaging. In my experience, there are way too few of the latter


"It's not personal."

Well, it certainly can be and often is. See my first comment.

Finally, and I don't want to be overly critical here, but the word is "aspersions."

 

[hawkeyecrazy]

So here is some food for thought on both sides;

Character counts, Nick Moore is by all accounts a stand up guy who is giving it his all. Is the cupboard bare at 165? Would we feel better if we 'rented' a 165 for a year with obvious issues but won a title? (Think Andrew Long type) I wouldn't. Character counts.

To discount wrestling on one arm and one leg issues as nonsense is a valid opinion, unless it is true, but very few people would actually know if the case is. I am not one of those people but what I see when watching him live very much reminds me of McDs senior year.

And the real kicker in the what if category is this; Say Nick only scores 1 and 1/2 points at the NCAA's but the Hawks win the team title by a single point........do the fan boys call him Courageous? a Hero?? Does his career still not measure up to the arbitrary standards that this board seems to have???

Personally I will be rooting for Nick at Nationals because he is our guy and even if he doesn't tally a single point I will claim him as a Hawkeye and wish him nothing but the best.

 

[Azchief32]

Originally posted by overeasy:

Originally posted by Azchief32:

"Being critical of a wrestler does not mean one is casting dispersions on his name or wishing him harm."

That completely depends upon HOW that criticism is worded or phrased. Some people criticize in a way that makes them seem personally affronted by the athlete who has failed to perform up to their expectations. Other people can offer a critique of the same situation without sounding arrogant or pompous or disparaging. In my experience, there are way too few of the latter


"It's not personal."

Well, it certainly can be and often is. See my first comment.

Finally, and I don't want to be overly critical here, but the word is "aspersions."

Haha....nice.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Originally posted by overeasy:

Originally posted by Azchief32:


"Being critical of a wrestler does not mean one is casting dispersions on his name or wishing him harm."

That completely depends upon HOW that criticism is worded or phrased. Some people criticize in a way that makes them seem personally affronted by the athlete who has failed to perform up to their expectations. Other people can offer a critique of the same situation without sounding arrogant or pompous or disparaging. In my experience, there are way too few of the latter


"It's not personal."

Well, it certainly can be and often is. See my first comment.

Finally, and I don't want to be overly critical here, but the word is "aspersions."

excellant

 

[Tony Hawk]

Since Minnesota he has gone what 3-5????

Does anyone not remember watching him wince in pain as the referee raised his hand in victory???????????

He has had a sub par end to the year but it's clearly not because he doesn't care or isn't trying. I have to assume he is limited in mobility and has a pretty bad shoulder injury that no one is talking about.

 

[Azchief32]

6-5, this includes a fft and one point losses to Sulzer and Palacio.

 

[86_90]

Great thread--right before NCAAs. Who says Hawk fans are all homers? Lots of differing opinions and disagreements, but little in the way of name-calling.

 

[WildTurk]

Anyone know what Nick is up 2 now? Hopefully he is healed up and feeling good.

 

[HawkTalk3]

Anyone know what Nick is up 2 now? Hopefully he is healed up and feeling good.

He's on the coaching staff at Iowa City West

http://www.edline.net/pages/WestHig...ICS/Winter_Athletics/Wrestling/Coaching_Staff

 

[86_90]

He's on the coaching staff at Iowa City West

http://www.edline.net/pages/WestHig...ICS/Winter_Athletics/Wrestling/Coaching_Staff

I would expect him to be an excellent coach. He has seen the higher highs and lower lows than most. This will serve him well as a coach.

What surgeries did he end of getting at the end of the season, if you happen to know.

 

[wasdt21]

ouch

 

[Vallholl]

How does someone find an 11 month old thread to revive it?

 

[Vallholl]

How does someone find an 11 month old thread to revive it?

Sorry, I missed that 86_90 spent yesterday going back to the future.

 

[wasdt21]

morning vall,all the numbers at top of page don't know how far back it goes.

 

[oldhawk56]

Is there (their, they're) a "where are they now" thread?

 

[CFNiteHawk85]

As long as we are time traveling, can someone find some threads from pre-2011? I'd like to see how many of our PSU friends were around here back then. J/k

 

[Vallholl]

morning vall,all the numbers at top of page don't know how far back it goes.

Thank you. I must admit I was being facetious in my question. And then I doubled down as I discovered that yesterday was "back to the future" day.

 

[Vallholl]

As long as we are time traveling, can someone find some threads from pre-2011? I'd like to see how many of our PSU friends were around here back then. J/k

AFHawk is in charge of time travel

 

[Azchief32]

How does someone find an 11 month old thread to revive it?

Well if we were trying to show Mr. Fancypants the III that he's not the only one who is critical of Iowa, these threads from March really showed him!

 

[AFHawk86]

AFHawk is in charge of time travel

That space time continuum thingy is broken, I can only go forward in time!

 

[rossel 33]

Well if we were trying to show Mr. Fancypants the III that he's not the only one who is critical of Iowa, these threads from March really showed him!

-----

Surely James P Whitters III already knows. After all, he has been a member since 2007, despite the majority of his posts coming over a 3 day period this last week.

 

[rossel 33]

Since Minnesota he has gone what 3-5????

Does anyone not remember watching him wince in pain as the referee raised his hand in victory???????????

He has had a sub par end to the year but it's clearly not because he doesn't care or isn't trying. I have to assume he is limited in mobility and has a pretty bad shoulder injury that no one is talking about.

-----

I know this is old stuff, but I too remember seeing him wince as well. Never heard f/u after season ended regarding any specific injury or surgery, but always suspected there was some underlying significant injury.

 

[WildTurk]

James is comfortably finding a new home on BWI with his new best friend Amalone. Thé fact that he calls himself a "genuine Hawkeye fan" makes me wanna puke a bit.

 

[championhawk]

-----

I know this is old stuff, but I too remember seeing him wince as well. Never heard f/u after season ended regarding any specific injury or surgery, but always suspected there was some underlying significant injury.

He had surgery after the season.