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No Matter How You Feel About Masks, You Should Be Alarmed by This Judge’s Decision

Triggered are we? To the extent the government ruled our lives during this so-called health crisis should not be allowed. Government has all sorts of input and laws related to public safety. The issue is the power they assumed over the pandemic is unprecedented and should not have happened. Stop comparing smoking laws to a government overreach regarding covid.
1 million dead and it's a "so-called health crisis". JFC.

If not the government, who has the power to enact public safety mandates that have to happen quickly?

The comparison to other laws that restrict what people do is absolutely valid. We will certainly have another similar health crisis in the US - some of you are stating our government should have no power to take action that restrict in any form or fashion. That's insane.
 
What conspiracy is that? That you don’t pay attention to shit when it happens? I’d call that a stone cold Truth if you are saying the CDC didn’t do that. Hint: I posted an article about it in this thread.
Are you stating for fact that the CDC paused the lockdown to allow people to protest? I am not reading all 3 links.
 
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I could sure be wrong on this, but the CDC doesn't have the authority to mandate anything, do they? Don't they make recommendations and Congress than takes those and makes it law (like the previous mass transit and airport mask mandates).
They do under the Public Health Services Act. That's the statutory authority for the mandate, which Judge Mizelle's somewhat tortured interpretation of the statute held did not apply to mask mandates
 
Most smoking bans were done state by state. California was first and there are big differences among state laws regarding smoking. I'm sure there is an overall law regarding federal buildings and airports.
The question is whether the government should have the power to make these restrictions.
 
By Lawrence Gostin and Duncan Hosie
Mr. Gostin is a professor of global health law at Georgetown Law and the faculty director of the O’Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law. Mr. Hosie is a writer and civil rights lawyer.
Should the federal government have the power to address broad public health emergencies?
Last week, a federal judge effectively answered no.
The judge, Kathryn Kimball Mizelle, who serves on a Federal District Court in Florida and was appointed by former President Donald Trump, issued a nationwide injunction blocking the government’s mask mandate for planes, trains, buses and other forms of public transportation.
No matter how you feel now about masks, you should be alarmed by her decision. Judge Mizelle’s ruling could prevent the federal government from effectively and nimbly responding to future pandemics. And long after this pandemic has faded, her approach and rationale could undermine the federal government’s authority to confront other big problems, from occupational health and safety to climate change.
The Biden administration has appealed the decision to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit, but that carries its own risks. Six of the 11 actives judges on that court are Trump appointees. A loss there by the Justice Department could permanently weaken the government’s authority to respond to health emergencies.
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Up until very recently, the statutory authority of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to try to curb the interstate or international transmission of an infectious, deadly disease was not in doubt. The Public Health Service Act authorizes the C.D.C. to “make and enforce such regulations” that in its “judgment are necessary to prevent the introduction, transmission or spread of communicable diseases.”
The law provides that the C.D.C. can enforce “sanitation” and “other measures” to achieve this goal. The transportation mask requirement is crucial to the agency’s ability to meet its congressional mandate because travelers in a pandemic can unknowingly carry a virus across the country, dispersing it along the way.
Since the New Deal, federal courts have generally declined to strike down reasonable agency regulations. And for good reason. In writing laws, Congress cannot envision or micromanage every possible scenario. Unexpected events — say, perhaps, a global public health crisis — create novel challenges. So, Congress delegates rule-making power to agencies, which develop and issue evidence-based regulations to combat complex problems.
Agencies do not have, nor should they have, unfettered authority to act, but courts should defer to their reasonable interpretations of federal law. In this case, Congress delegated powers to the C.D.C., a scientific agency charged with protecting the nation’s health.
Judge Mizelle’s opinion rejects this longstanding consensus over the way government works. Adopting a strained and tendentious reading of the word “sanitation,” she concluded that the C.D.C. exceeded its legal authority. In her view, it was untenable that the “C.D.C. claims a power to regulate how individuals behave in such diverse places as airplanes, train stations, marinas and personal vehicles used in ride-sharing services across town.”
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In reality, the C.D.C. claims no power that Congress had not explicitly given it. An agency tasked with slowing the interstate spread of a highly infectious virus would regulate interstate travel, which occurs because “diverse places” like airplanes and train stations are often crowded, and passengers are confined for long periods of time.
Under Judge Mizelle’s logic, the agency would also have no authority under existing law to impose a mask mandate in a future pandemic — say if a new and more dangerous variant of the coronavirus strikes, as it might. It wouldn’t matter how deadly the future variant or pandemic was. Or how communicable the disease was in airplanes or trains. Or the effectiveness of masks in slowing spread. Or whether the pathogen evaded vaccines. Her peculiar reading of the statute restricts the C.D.C.’s ability to respond to a future health crisis, handcuffing it when the agency is most needed.
Judge Mizelle lacks experience or expertise in public health. The C.D.C., conversely, is staffed by virologists, epidemiologists and other highly respected scientists accountable to the president, who in turn can be held to account by the public. A constitutional democracy is challenged when a lone judge, lacking competence in public health, can unilaterally dismantle a nationwide public health policy during a crisis. We can’t think of a worse way for Covid-era masking to end than at the hand of a single federal judge sitting in the Middle District of Florida.
Judge Mizelle is among a cadre of Trump appointees to the federal bench who are using the foil of pandemic public health regulations to dismantle the national government’s legal authority to solve problems. They have sought to change underlying principles of administrative law, limiting the type of regulations that agencies can create and letting individual judges substitute their policy views for agencies’ reasoned interpretations. Their push includes eliminating the legal doctrine of Chevron deference, laid out in a unanimous 1984 Supreme Court decision that gives federal agencies leeway when interpreting ambiguous or unclear laws.
This campaign starts at the top, with a Supreme Court transformed by Mr. Trump’s three appointments. In August 2021, as the Delta variant surged, the Supreme Court blocked the C.D.C. from enforcing a federal eviction moratorium, which was intended to prevent mass evictions and keep people out of congregate settings where Covid spreads most easily. In January, as the Omicron variant strained hospitals across the country, the Supreme Court barred the Occupational Safety and Health Administration from imposing a vaccination-or-test requirement for large employers.
In these decisions and others, the Supreme Court’s most conservative justices have displayed a blasé disregard for precedents and the exigencies of a deadly pandemic, which had killed nearly one million Americans as of late last week.
The Justice Department’s decision to appeal Judge Mizelle’s decision was welcome news. The C.D.C. must have the legal authority to protect public health. But should the appellate court uphold her ruling, the C.D.C. will be seriously hobbled and a ruinous precedent will be set for the entire federal regulatory apparatus. Worse, the Supreme Court might review the case and use it as part of its larger crusade to deconstruct the administrative state.
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This fracas over masking in public transportation will eventually fade. But decisions like Judge Mizelle’s could remain law, burdening agencies and restricting the scope of policymaking. That should trouble Americans who want a government that can protect them in future pandemics — or to take action to address any hard problem that threatens their health, safety and security.

I didn't vote for a single member of the CDC. They do not create law, they do not enforce laws, they make recommendations (sometimes good sometimes not), the make guidelines, but they have ZERO authority over me or my family. They needed to get checked and put back in their rightful place as bureaucrats who have no more authority within the government than you or I.
 
1 million dead and it's a "so-called health crisis". JFC.

If not the government, who has the power to enact public safety mandates that have to happen quickly?

The comparison to other laws that restrict what people do is absolutely valid. We will certainly have another similar health crisis in the US - some of you are stating our government should have no power to take action that restrict in any form or fashion. That's insane.
3.4 million deaths a year in the US. Government obviously needs to do a better job of regulating things.

Why do you automatically think government is the solution to everything? Threatening to fire people for not getting a shot or not allowing people to live a normal life because they won't wear a mask is NOT the same as telling someone they can't smoke inside a restaurant. Spin it anyway you want it's just not the same.

How do you know we will have another health crisis? When?
 
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Ugh. The mandate can come from another authority - it doesn't have to be a law. The point is whether a government entity should have the power to issue a mask mandate and/or quarantine for public safety.
The point is whether we the people are in charge of the government or if the government is in charge of us.

I prefer option 1.
 
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I didn't vote for a single member of the CDC. They do not create law, they do not enforce laws, they make recommendations (sometimes good sometimes not), the make guidelines, but they have ZERO authority over me or my family. They needed to get checked and put back in their rightful place as bureaucrats who have no more authority within the government than you or I.
I hope you have the same argument for the Federal Reserve.
 
As I said at the time of the ruling, this is the important question.

If it's decided that government can't act in the nation's perceived best interest during a crisis, what's the point of government?
“Should” they? Probably so. The very structure of the republic contemplates interstate commerce, and communicable disease can have an effect there. But…the potential breadth of the regulatory power screams out for some policy guidance on how it should be used, from accountable elected officials. In many ways that’s the nub of the decision, and it’s the heart of the emerging major question doctrine litigation.
 
I hope you have the same argument for the Federal Reserve.
when the federal reserve comes for my freedoms and liberties I'll have the same answer for them... I can tell you this much, the lack of honesty and transparency and complete disregard for science throughout the pandemic like vitamin D, exercise, healthy diet, etc for why my answer going forward on pretty much everything from the CDC is NO.
 
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I thought you were pro-life? Don't you want the government to make laws telling what other people MUST do with their bodies?

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3.4 million deaths a year in the US. Government obviously needs to do a better job of regulating things.

Why do you automatically think government is the solution to everything? Threatening to fire people for not getting a shot or not allowing people to live a normal life because they won't wear a mask is NOT the same as telling someone they can't smoke inside a restaurant. Spin it anyway you want it's just not the same.

How do you know we will have another health crisis? When?
FFS - it's no use.
 
when the federal reserve comes for my freedoms and liberties I'll have the same answer for them... I can tell you this much, the lack of honesty and transparency and complete disregard for science throughout the pandemic like vitamin D, exercise, healthy diet, etc for why my answer going forward on pretty much everything from the CDC is NO.
Ok. I didn't know I opened the crazy can.
 
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You put more people at risk when you decide to drive a car than you deciding to not wear a mask.

Is there any subject in which you don't take the chicken little approach? Imagine if you took that approach with untested illegals crossing the border and being put on busses to wherever.
And yet we have all sorts of laws that regulate what you can do while you drive and what you can and can't wear.

Another big swing and a miss hauss
 
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Not in my opinion. If the gov't wants to dictate behavior, at a minimum, it should have to go through the legislative process. Ideally its a local level process. This one size fits all approach is mind numbingly asinine.
So when there's an emergency the actions of government officials must wait for a bill to be introduced, approved in both houses and then signed into law by the President?

We have laws that give authority like this to entities because doing it your way would be catastrophic.
 
"
Should the federal government have the power to address broad public health emergencies?
Last week, a federal judge effectively answered no."

The judge ruled the govt "should" not have the power? Or did she rule the "don't" have the power, or the CDC "does not" have the power to do what they did? And did the judge rule no power to "address" or simply what they did, which is not as broad as this statement makes it?

The courts are supposed to rule on the specific actions. That does not preclude other actions to be attempted or debated . To argue as these two are, you would think 1) the fed govt was shut down and boarded up; 2) the states or people can't do anything. But, yes the fed govt doesn't have the control over you they try to.
 
So when there's an emergency the actions of government officials must wait for a bill to be introduced, approved in both houses and then signed into law by the President?

We have laws that give authority like this to entities because doing it your way would be catastrophic.
Or, if you cared to read the rest the of my response, you would see the ideal solution would be it being handled on the local level. Ya know, small government. But I wouldnt expect a statist to grasp that concept - you have not disappointed. However, if you insist on it being on a federal level, then the answer to your question is, "of course".
 
"
Should the federal government have the power to address broad public health emergencies?
Last week, a federal judge effectively answered no."

The judge ruled the govt "should" not have the power? Or did she rule the "don't" have the power, or the CDC "does not" have the power to do what they did? And did the judge rule no power to "address" or simply what they did, which is not as broad as this statement makes it?

The courts are supposed to rule on the specific actions. That does not preclude other actions to be attempted or debated . To argue as these two are, you would think 1) the fed govt was shut down and boarded up; 2) the states or people can't do anything. But, yes the fed govt doesn't have the control over you they try to.
What is your opinion on this, Titanhawk2? If not the CDC then who?
 
Or, if you cared to read the rest the of my response, you would see the ideal solution would be it being handled on the local level. Ya know, small government. But I wouldnt expect a statist to grasp that concept - you have not disappointed. However, if you insist on it being on a federal level, then the answer to your question is, "of course".
As I said, that's insane.
 
So you believe smoking bans on airplanes, in restaurants, and other public buildings should be abolished? That anyone should be allowed to smoke wherever they want?

How about speed limits? Do you oppose those as well?
Speed limits were legislated not handed down from on high.
 
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