Ernst was absolutely a fallback recruit, I'm guessing he'll never be a contributor at ISU
No wonder we passed on Simpson
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Ernst was absolutely a fallback recruit, I'm guessing he'll never be a contributor at ISU
That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I always wondered if college coaches had a "big board" like I imagine they do in the pros prior to draft day. It makes sense that the staff would highlight several players for each position and I'm sure they rank order them based on the most current data. Like anything, those values would change with different circumstances. Frankly, it stands to reason that players can improve dramatically from one review to the next, stay the same, maybe even regress. Circumstances around a player could change, etc.
Was Ernst really a fallback? I think he was more of a calculated risk for Prohm since there weren't other "better" options to swing and miss on in the 2015 class due to the time that Prohm was hired and the scholarships available. That said, he's the quality of player that is typical of a fallback.
I think he'll provide just what Prohm is looking for: a big body who can fill in a few minutes here and there. I don't foresee him being a superstar, but there's no reason to think he won't be a contributor to the Cyclones. All teams need players who understand their roles on the team. If he's being expected to be a 15 pt 10 reb per game player from the get-go then that's asking too much. But, if he's asked to give the post players a breather, clog the middle, bang a few bodies around he'll do just fine, and who knows what he'll be like by the time he's a junior or senior. Sometimes that light bulb comes on and things start to fall into place offensively and defensively. I'm not a Cyclone fan by any means, but I always like to root for Iowa kids (as long as they aren't playing against Iowa
).
Agree with the "must not be fun for any coach" comment.
Imagine chasing around these over ego'd, prima donna asshats around for a living.
Only time it is nice is when you are one of the elite programs and you can pretty much just pick and choose who you want.
Iowa is not in that category. Only about 3-4 schools are.
Probably why Fran keeps coming back to Iowa kids, probably a fresh of breath air as they are actually respectable human beings.
Imagine chasing around these over ego'd, prima donna asshats around for a living.
Only time it is nice is when you are one of the elite programs and you can pretty much just pick and choose who you want.
Iowa is not in that category. Only about 3-4 schools are.
Probably why Fran keeps coming back to Iowa kids, probably a fresh of breath air as they are actually respectable human beings.
Why would you say that? Since Ernst committed ISU has gotten two recruits that were pretty highly sought after in Simeon Carter and Donovan Jackson
Someone with more time and inclination can draw up this list, but how many potential recruits that chose other schools and were bemoaned by our fans (and our program ridiculed by the usual interlopers) went on to have absolutely mediocre careers elsewhere.
All of them as they were never Hawkeyes. However, suspecting you meant as far as production on the court, many. Recently, since the discussion was from a couple of Cyclone fans (and it is Hate week) was about Bohannon, we could remember our brief interest in one Noskowiak before we backed off and Iowa State eventually got him. Emmett Holt, of Indiana and now Indian Hills due to off the court incidents.
However, we still haven't made it to production on the court...
Odd question. I don't see anyone here bemoaning the loss of Simpson or any interlopers ridiculing our program.
Not at all.
By ESPN's ranking of point guards:
Penn State, #10 Tony Carr, evaluated at an 86
Michigan, #12 Xavier Simpson, an 84
Maryland, #16 Anthony Cowan, an 81
Iowa, #24 Jordan Bohannon, an 80
There are the current 4 star ranked commits in the Big Ten.
Northwestern, #47 Isiah Brown, a 75 three star (three stars change to four stars at 80)
Of course one has to consider that some guards are still deciding, those considering Big Ten schools:
Ohio State (among six schools), #4 Kobe Simmons, a 93 (Five stars) (Warning...schools still involved may have changed for all these guys in this part of the list)
Michigan State (among three), #6 Cassius Winston, an 89 four star
Illinois (among 4 schools), #14 Charlie Moore, an 81
Ohio State (among six schools) #20 Tyson Carter, an 80
Illinois/Rutgers (among nine schools) #23 Bryce Aiken, an 80
Illinois (among ?) #28 TeJon Lucas, a 79 3 star
By this point we are well into the 30's and three stars so I stopped looking. It's hard to be certain going off websites just which schools are in on what players. And, this is ESPN other recruiting services have different rankings.
Not sure why people call Kriener a fallback. He went thru July evaluation and dominated in many games. Facts are he outplayed many of the guys that Iowa had already offered. Iowa coaches came back after July evaluation and looked at their board. Kriener moved ahead of Painter and Rackovic. They offered Kriener, he accepted, the other guys lost their offers. If Kriener was a fall back they would've given Painter and Rackovic more time. He was the guy they wanted and they got him. The other thing that pushed Iowa was that Kriener was getting high major offers and more were coming. Now let's get Cook!
May I ask why you use ESPN? I'm a 247 guy myself but ESPN is not really used by many people anymore. Most forums I see 247 or Rivals to discuss recruiting. I don't think Kriener even has a profile on ESPN
247's composite ranking isn't complete until all the services they use evaluate guys. Bohannon hasn't been evaluated yet by Rivals. Incomplete Data rendering both unusable to compare Bohannon to other point guards. That leaves us with ESPN for now.
247 has Bohannon ranked in their own rankings, that's a much better source than ESPN in my opinion. Like I said ESPN doesn't even acknowledge Kriener as a commit
That's up to you. I don't care much for 247's rankings when they don't even use them as more than a part of their composite. Go ahead and look up their player rankings and what do you see? The composite! Then you get a little, "Oh yeah, we think.....". That's not much confidence in their own ability, don't you think?
Again, look 'em up. A player like Brandon Hutton? According to their evaluation, their evaluation mind you, Brandon Hutton is ranked a 90, the 25th best small forward in the nation. Seventh best player in Illinois, and overall the 133rd best player in the 2015 class.
Sounds great, doesn't it! But go to 247's 2015 player rankings. They take you right to their composite and despite their evaluation of Hutton, what do they list him at? They use their composite. Now he's the 219th best player in the 2016 class, scores a .8652 (more on that later), they now say he's the 52nd best small forward in the nation and tenth best player in Illinois.
To add to my point, look up how they determine which schools have the best recruiting classes. They use their composite scores!
So, even though they themselves don't use their own evaluations to actually measure a player, but only as a part of the composite, you decide to think more of their own evaluation than they do? Again, that's up to you.
As to your point that ESPN hasn't yet ranked Kriener. Don't you think that's a little like blaming the dryer if the clothes are still wet? Give them time to do their jobs! I'd rather they not rank a player until they've evaluated him, this isn't a psychic reading (well...it still mostly is but I've come to understand there's more value in it than I once thought. Still isn't close to perfect.).
Look. As I said, Bohannon isn't yet ranked by Rivals either. As I understand it, Eric Bossi has to see a kid before they will rank him. Maybe he didn't see Bohannon, or maybe Mr. Bossi just hasn't ranked Jordan yet. No biggie...takes time.
But again, here's my complaint with 247. That composite? You can find Kriener on it, you can find Bohannon on it, on a supposedly fancy algorithmic method which is secret and property of 247. As if Einstein himself created the thing. And maybe, if he did, I could understand HOW they can create a composite list when two of the sources, Rivals and ESPN haven't even ranked one of the guys on the list!
But they do....and they've got their own little rank to add to the composite....and like you say you think it's a much better source than ESPN. Ok, good for you. We disagree.
I like Rivals. We could talk Rivals but they haven't ranked Bohannon yet! And when they do, he'll probably be an unranked three star. Which puts us right back in the position of guessing if he would have been #151, or #300. Sorry, I know this is long....and I'm probably wasting my time.
So last point. Hutton's .8652 composite score? The very nature of 247's method leads to a massive block of players all ranked nearly the same! Not separated .865, .860, etc.! But seriously, actually, by the .0001 percentile in many cases! And look at how many players their "method" ranks! Sorry but again, this is just my opinion, but they've got guys ranked in the 300's! Oh common..........this stretches the accuracy of player rankings to the point way past guesswork. They know it, anyone should know it. And if they are willing to actually produce lists that long, and supposedly that exact? I can't take them as a serious recruiting service.
As it specifically relates to Iowa BB, I've noted ESPN rankings and ratings lately for a few reasons. 1) ESPN certainly doesn't favor Iowa, so if they rank one of our players highly, there is no bias in our favor. 2) ESPN tends to favor athleticism in the ratings. That is something detractors of Iowa have criticized. So if Iowa gets good ratings on recruits from ESPN it tells me that a source not really favoring Iowa feels that our recruits are athletic compared to other schools nationally. Given that, I note that Moss and Bohannon are 4* recruits per ESPN and that several of the 2015 class are high 3*s by ESPN's rating system. Pemsl has been injured but was on the rise before that. Kriener just was starting to emerge nationally when Fran offered so a service like ESPN, with it's eastern bias, has't even recognized him yet. I watch services like 247, but you don't have to go any further than their giving the nod for Moore and Santos coming to Iowa, or Uhl going to Temple, to realize that you have to take them with a big grain of salt.
We're done for now. Yes, Rivals has a profile page on Bohannon, one that is incomplete as they haven't evaluated Jordan yet. Here's the link:
https://rivals.yahoo.com/basketballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Jordan-Bohannon-163234
That is a relatively easy concept. Once you grasp it, let me know and we can talk about why I didn't say ESPN was better, but the only method of the three services we can actually USE at this time.
247 has Bohannon ranked and 247 is a much more respected recruiting service than ESPN
OK, already.
Dan likes ESPN and Cycity likes 247, we get it. How many posts do you need to get your point across.
Everybody has to get in the last word, jeez!
Right now, I'm glad we got Bohannon. Ultimately, it is what these kids do on the court that matters.
Dan likes ESPN and Cycity likes 247, we get it. How many posts do you need to get your point across.
Everybody has to get in the last word, jeez!
Right now, I'm glad we got Bohannon. Ultimately, it is what these kids do on the court that matters.
Apparently more. But you are right, if after explaining why I used ESPN's rankings there are still folks dumb enough to not understand...I've done all I can. They'll just have to stay dumb or figure it out on their own.
Not following the back and forth between the Clones and Hawk fans. I do agree with the comment that it is probably super sucky and frustrating for coaches, but not necessarily for chasing the players. The bigger issue this day IMO is dealing with AAU coaches. To give their program credibility, it is in their best interest to push kids to the best programs.
So I guess "respectable human beings" only come from Iowa and none exist elsewhere? Really?
Is ESPN a "recruiting service"? For that matter, is 247 one? It is a CBS affiliate. I'd call both sports websites.
247Sports.com main focus is college football and basketball recruiting. They are partnered with CBSSports.com though
Just when you think all the 11-year olds have gone back to school, this thread continues.
Neither is a recruiting service. Both are in entertainment. And ESPN is bigger in the sports world and among HS kids.
Rivals is in partnership with Yahoo and I consider them a recruiting service. Again, I don't use ESPN and I don't know many that do. I was only pointing out that ESPN isn't the only recruiting service that has evaluated Bohannon because 247 has him at the #50 PG in the country and #261 overall. If you want to use ESPN go ahead, I shouldn't have said anything in the first place and apologize if I came off argumentative
In the AAU National Champ. game with Kriener out with injury it was Bohannon that brought them back in the 2nd half to win the championship. He had 16 down the stretch in the 2nd half. He played and more importantly showed he could defend this summer. That's been the knock on him for a while was he lacked strength to defend.
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Quick question - why are you guys trying to reason with a trolling clone fan who has nothing better to do than hang out on Iowa's basketball board and run down Hawkeye recruits.
I'll take a team full of "fallback" recruits that overachieves and wins its game in the NCAA tournament over a team full of vagabonds who underachieve and get bounced out by a team I've never heard of in the first round.
I don't believe Fran had any idea White would be a 1st Team All B1G. It worked out that way. He saw talent, sure, but White lit the world on fire his Sr. year. I was a big White fan, and many ragged on him as an "opportunist" scorer until later in his Sr. year. My point is that recruiting is hit and miss. Talented kids have things go wrong in their heads or in their lives that can effect their performance.
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