NPR: evidence of collusion remains elusive....
- Thread starter The Tradition
- Start date
The perjury occurred about 4 years AFTER the investigation began, if you can remember, though. A little different than today.
Lol if you think the Clintons aren’t the head of a family crime syndicate. The Clintons lined their pockets in every direction possible from the highest bidding donor/country. Both the Trumps and the Clintons are crooked as hell. Our country and government need an extreme makeover.
There's no crime called collusion. The crime people are looking for is called conspiracy. Conspiracy is planning to commit a crime.
Heading into year three with no evidence of collusion or conspiracy.
So far the only crimes by Trump insiders have been tax evasion, money laundering, failing to register as a foreign agent, and lying to investigators.
Nothing yet on interfering with an election. The DNC arguably acted criminally to influence the election by its involvement in the Steele dossier. The DNC arguably acted criminally through its money laundering scheme to redirect funds from state chapters. I'm not sure why Mueller hasn't gone down that path.
I was actually hoping Mueller would find something so we could rid ourselves of the Clown in Chief. What a disappointment Mueller, the FBI, and the DoJ have been. We've always guessed the FISA warrants were rubber stamped; now we have evidence.
Mueller is like a cop pulling someone over for driving drunk. The driver passes the sobriety test, so the cops breaks a tail light so he has something to charge the driver with.
Heading into year three with no evidence of collusion or conspiracy.
So far the only crimes by Trump insiders have been tax evasion, money laundering, failing to register as a foreign agent, and lying to investigators.
Nothing yet on interfering with an election. The DNC arguably acted criminally to influence the election by its involvement in the Steele dossier. The DNC arguably acted criminally through its money laundering scheme to redirect funds from state chapters. I'm not sure why Mueller hasn't gone down that path.
I was actually hoping Mueller would find something so we could rid ourselves of the Clown in Chief. What a disappointment Mueller, the FBI, and the DoJ have been. We've always guessed the FISA warrants were rubber stamped; now we have evidence.
Mueller is like a cop pulling someone over for driving drunk. The driver passes the sobriety test, so the cops breaks a tail light so he has something to charge the driver with.
Huh? There have already been multiple indictments for "conspiracy".
And the NRA is heavily tied up in one of them....
There's a difference between believing Trump should be impeached and/or go to jail and thinking that those things will actually happen.
There's nothing intellectually dishonest about recognizing that reality.
Perhaps if the markets continue to tank.... Republicans many not care about honor, integrity, honesty, or even selling out America, but if the wallets of the people who bribe them are affected by Trump's erratic behavior, and they can't pass any more giveaways to the rich, they my suddenly decide Trump has to go.
The one report I keep remembering is when Don jr or somebody up high had discussions with Russians about timing the release of emails to best benefit Trump's campaign.
I doubt that's the only thing that is both conspiracy and involves interfering with the election.
Meanwhile, you say:
So far the only crimes by Trump insiders have been tax evasion, money laundering, failing to register as a foreign agent, and lying to investigators.
...which sounds pretty damning to me.
Sure, you can say that they haven't pinned any of those things directly on Trump (yet), but if you read the articles of impeachment from the last 2 times, you'll notice that criminality by those in leadership positions and supervised by the president are among the charges Congress thought warranted impeachment.
Which is to say that if we follow precedent, Trump could have been impeached a while ago on these matters (and plenty of others - some of which are even more important, imo).
I find this type of commentary amusing. Mueller and his team know a crap ton of information with corroborating evidence that no one else does.
If Trump DIDN'T do anything, he's engaging in a LOT of risk of being charged with "obstruction" over "nothing"....
Good point.
By itself it isn't proof, but it sure does make it look like Trump has reason to worry.
Ha. But it was perjury from testimony futing a deposition regarding the exact case being investigated.
He said he didn’t have sex wit ML in questioning about it. During a sworn deposition. Once this was proven demonstrably false by DNA evidence, he was in trouble.
And shall I remind you, NOT removed from office by a republican controlled senate over it.
More obfuscation.....
Agreed. Largely my point. I personally don’t think he will be or should be but a simple recognition of the facts as above feels like progress is being made.
Lots of reasons for that, good and bad.
The relevant one for comparison with Trump's situation is that Clinton wasn't charged with lying about anything of national importance. What Clinton was charged with offended a lot of people's personal sense of morality. Trump is abusing his office and damaging the nation. HUGE difference.
...which sounds pretty damning to me.
Huh? Pinned?
The tax evasion and money laundering by Manafort and Cohen predated the Trump candidacy and presidency. And we’re purely power plays to squeeze info about Trump.
Registering as a foreign agent crime is such an obscure violation. Good luck with the PR battle with the public on that. Again predated Trump.
Luing to investigators Well the Flynn matter is gonna get tossed due to the unethical manner that the questioning was handled so there’s that. As far as papadapolous OK you got me on that one. At least in is contemporaneous with the actual case being investigated. Well his crime was so severe he’s actual been sentenced and served his time.
You seem to suggest this is all signs of a crime syndicate. No. Just of a bunch of dishonest slime balls Trump
associated himself with. And of that I’ll agree. He’s guilty. But crimes by association are still not a thing. Yet. I suspect you all would change that if you could.
I still think there's a chance he'll be impeached. But not convicted.
Unfortunately, it will be a political decision.
The Dem majority in the House can presumably muster the votes to impeach. But (sadly) the question won't be what's good for America, but what's good for the party.
I take it as a given that ousting Trump would be good for America (after a brief period of right wing violence). But the Dems will be counting votes in 2020 and gauging whether impeachment will play well once Rush and FOX and the Koch/Adelson/Mercer/Singer... money ramps up. My guess is that their calculation won't encourage going through with impeachment. But it might.
Impeachment does not require a crime.
If what you are hanging your hat on is that they haven't yet pinned a crime directly on Trump, you are missing the point of the constitutional provision to impeach.
Perhaps. But I suspect they have a lot of documentation about who knew what about the meeting in Drumpf Tower and how many folks lied about something that was "totally legal and above board".
The Dems can’t remove him from office as it takes 2/3s Majority to do so. So, you need not worry...unless of course, your boy is a crook. But then, he can resign before his trial.
N
No I am not missing that at all. I have always understood that the process to remove Trump starts with impeachment and requires just a vote. Not proof of crimes Proof is ascertained in the Senate. But I also add I am not exactly sure how you'd interpret the founders intent by stating "high crimes and misdemeanors." SO any attempt to impeach without a suspicion of a crime or assertions thereof, is in itself an abuse of power.
Impeachment will be a political decision by the House D's just as you've stated any potential removal will be a political decision by the Senate R's.
I personally dont think impeachment proceedings should proceed unless a whip of the votes convinces one that removal is certain or highly likely. Just for the good of the country. Otherwise, wait to vote til 2020 and spare the citizenry the process. But it wont be about that, it will be more political kabuki theater and 'Sparticus moments"
No I am not missing that at all. I have always understood that the process to remove Trump starts with impeachment and requires just a vote. Not proof of crimes Proof is ascertained in the Senate. But I also add I am not exactly sure how you'd interpret the founders intent by stating "high crimes and misdemeanors." SO any attempt to impeach without a suspicion of a crime or assertions thereof, is in itself an abuse of power.
Impeachment will be a political decision by the House D's just as you've stated any potential removal will be a political decision by the Senate R's.
I personally dont think impeachment proceedings should proceed unless a whip of the votes convinces one that removal is certain or highly likely. Just for the good of the country. Otherwise, wait to vote til 2020 and spare the citizenry the process. But it wont be about that, it will be more political kabuki theater and 'Sparticus moments"
Ok here we go...I laugh about this Trump Tower meeting slight of hand.
Think hard about this please. This was a meeting to get dirt on Clinton from the Russians. And who was there and who knew.....and nothing appears to have come from it. And yes legal.
This is EXACTLY what the commissioned dossier was and the Clinton camp paid for that and received it from Russians. Now via intermediaries sure but also done in such a way as to make its actual process difficult to trace back to Clinton for President. Also yes, legal. I have zero issue with her commissioning this oppo research. But is is NO different than what is alleged to have occurred in that meeting in Trump Tower and even more serious since actual product was developed.
Unless, of course, enough (a minority) Republicans in the Senate dig deep and resuscitate a viable remnant of ethical sensibility, or love of country. Either one will do. Surely a few Republicans can be found with some integrity left. Or is that a pipe dream?
If they are smart, they'll do it in the next 2 weeks and dump Pence along with Trump. That way Ryan becomes President. A much less embarrassing R in the WH for the upcoming 2020 elections.
The only thing that saddens me about his turn of events is that AMI is getting away scot-free.
High price to pay if this doesn't bring Trump down.
High price indeed. Which is why it is all the more likely that Mueller does have some massive bombshell waiting for Trump. Why let all these other people go if all he has are two campaign finance felonies?
