The spot would be filled. But there will be tons of middleweight kids of superior wrestling talent watching from the bleachers.
Off season query: If you could add one weight class and/or take out another, what would it/they be?
- Thread starter EvilMonkeyInTheCloset
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The spot would be filled. But there will be tons of middleweight kids of superior wrestling talent watching from the bleachers.
There is now.....why not pursue the International goals?
We would fill it, but we are not serving the athletes in our sport. Most of the athletes are smaller than 197-285. Its dumb to put a weight inbetween the weights with the least participants. That just further waters down two classes that typically are not that deep.
There are a lot of great athletes leaving HS sitting between 205-215 that are football/wrestlers. Most of these guys get out of wrestling by JR year because wrestling isnt much of an option past HS when you weigh in around that range. A 215-220 weight class would be a great way to grow the sport. It is by far the largest pool of athletes being lost in the sport. I was 6'2" 205 when I left HS. Had a lot of friends in the weight and height range. Football worked perfect for us. Wrestling kind of left us behind. We were all RB's, LB's and DB's in Football.
If anything, it would clear out the talent from HWT. Guys at 230-235 would cut.
False. The largest pool of athletes lost in the sport are 140 to 160 pounders who can’t beat the even better 140 to 160 pounders so their athletic career is over after high school. Most of those guys are better, and have dedicated far more of their life to wrestling, than 99% of the 200+ guys. And they would put on a better show, because they are better wrestlers.
The truth is, football is a more glamorous sport, and most any kid would pick it over wrestling if they had the choice to excel at one. So not many 200+ HS kids choose wrestling. We already have a disproportionate number of spots in HS for big kids (10% of 17 year olds are 182+, but 29% of HS weight classes are 182+), but they aren’t choosing wrestling.
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That's secondary to me concerning this topic. That's how sports operate. The average will always be more represented than those outliers, but we still should have those. With that logic you could argue to get rid of a lower weight so there could be more middle weights. I want the diversity.
I think this is more of a "If you build it they will come." If there was a collegiate weight of 210-220 lbs. then there would be a greater impetus for some excellent athletes to wrestle it from the high school ranks. It's not good to have that olympic weight not represented in college.
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Do you think people in the wrestling are typically average in size to smaller because of lack of opportunity? I would argue that its the lack of opportunity in other sports draws people to wrestling. Austin Blythe played football because its more glamorous. Adding another weight doesnt bring guys like that to wrestling.
That is demonstrably false. As I already pointed out, 29% of high school weight classes are reserved for the largest 10% of seventeen year old males. There are plenty, plenty of spots for the big guys. But their numbers are extremely low. The last year that I saw the certified numbers in New Jersey, there were 1200 wrestles certified at 138 and 145. There were something like 250 wrestlers certified at 220 and HWT.
This is not dissimilar to the effect Title IX has had on athletics. Yes, by requiring more varsity sports for females, female participation levels have gone up. However, there are still far more males who wish to participate in sports, and Title IX has made it more difficult for them to do so, because it has has put downward pressure on sports such as wrestling. Your suggestion is sort of a Title IX for big guys. "They don't like the sport? Let's give them more spots!"
Sooo 150…. 155 160 165. 74 84 97 285???
being sarcastic of course but why is having athletes having go choose between football and wrestling such a detriment at 220 but not 285?
this is exactly the kind of response I met when I brought this subject up years ago…..probably was you and Spoooner it’s just a discussion so there’s no wrong or right answer really
but like other posters mentioned it’s an international weight class so why shouldn’t we be offering athletes that fit that weight opportunities to wrestle collegiately they have it in HS and International competition…
Those kids supposed to skip college and go straight to the OTC so we can squeeze some more middle weights in?
while we’re at it if I’m not mistaken the ultimate goal of wrestling is Olympic gold….. why don’t we bring our youth up in freestyle instead of having them switch back and forth between different styles and rules….. doesn’t it make more sense to train in the style they’re going to compete at eventually if they’re the best at their sport?
I guess honestly I’m not even sure how or when the two styles evolved to where we are….. since they got rid of the ball grab I much prefer watching freestyle
One thing I have found over the years is they don't care what the fans and parents think, in either college or high school wrestling. If they want to change or add weight classes, they'll do it. They will listen to some feedback from coaches, but outside that it's going to be the way they want it.
I don't think it makes a great deal of sense to change everything we do in order to match international rules and weight classes. Partly because international rules change frequently, and would be a nightmare to try to educate tens of thousands of youth wrestlers and officials every time FILA changes its rules, let alone changing our weight classes. BTW, would we cut down to the eight non-Olympic weight classes or the six Olympic weight classes? Because if we aren't going to match those weight classes then why worry about matching it for that one?
The reasoning is simple. By time kids have gone through youth wrestling and high school wrestling, we know where the interest and talent lies. Big kids have disproportionate opportunities there. And by college there is significantly more interest and talent in the middle - and lower - weight classes. So if we add an opportunity that's where it should be.
As for the ultimate goal being Olympic gold, I don't believe that is the case, at all. No doubt for some kids. But I would guess only the tiniest percentage of U.S. wrestlers view the Olympics as their goal.
I dont think anyone is doubting that there is a bigger talent pool available in the 140-180 lb range, but while the lower weights are often bloodbaths at nationals, I think there are enough open spots in college that any quality wrestler can find a spot at some college. Adding weights there doesn't really expand the talent pool, just broadens the opportunity.
Adding a new class at 215 or 220 does open up a path guys that might not otherwise find a spot (cant make 97, but not big enough to wrestle heavy), and the top guys in that range would also have an incredible combination of athleticism and size. I have to imagine there are 97ers that would go up and live on full feed, and, as others mentioned, you can up the top end of the HWT to 330. I love the current breed of HWTs that are athletic as hell, but its also fun to watch a Andre the Giant type battle too
Definitely sign me up for more of the 97kg guys like Snyder, Kurt Angle, (and ignore the success they had at heavy )
Adding a new class at 215 or 220 does open up a path guys that might not otherwise find a spot (cant make 97, but not big enough to wrestle heavy), and the top guys in that range would also have an incredible combination of athleticism and size. I have to imagine there are 97ers that would go up and live on full feed, and, as others mentioned, you can up the top end of the HWT to 330. I love the current breed of HWTs that are athletic as hell, but its also fun to watch a Andre the Giant type battle too
Definitely sign me up for more of the 97kg guys like Snyder, Kurt Angle, (and ignore the success they had at heavy
)
We'd like to encourage our wrestlers to live past 40, so no thank you.Bring back U N L
Undefeated Taylor of Iowa state was just a smidge over 400 Pounds... Dont the Fat guys deserve a shot??
I like this shift, but we could also just add a 215 and another scholarship. What I don't like is starting below 125.
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I dont think anyone is doubting that there is a bigger talent pool available in the 140-180 lb range, but while the lower weights are often bloodbaths at nationals, I think there are enough open spots in college that any quality wrestler can find a spot at some college. Adding weights there doesn't really expand the talent pool, just broadens the opportunity.
Adding a new class at 215 or 220 does open up a path guys that might not otherwise find a spot (cant make 97, but not big enough to wrestle heavy), and the top guys in that range would also have an incredible combination of athleticism and size. I have to imagine there are 97ers that would go up and live on full feed, and, as others mentioned, you can up the top end of the HWT to 330. I love the current breed of HWTs that are athletic as hell, but its also fun to watch a Andre the Giant type battle too
Definitely sign me up for more of the 97kg guys like Snyder, Kurt Angle, (and ignore the success they had at heavy
The solution to the existing problem is simply to redistribute the upper three weight classes, because no way should 40% of the weight classes be for guys bigger than 184 pounds. That would be absurd.
Perhaps the last three weight classes could be 186, 205, 285. The add the 11th weight class in the middle.
No, it's not demonstrably false. Your example proves the opposite. You make the positions, and the positions fill, just like it did with women. It's not that there aren't athletes who don't "like the sport," it's that the sport doesn't have their weight available.
There is no moral right or wrong here. It's a matter of what one prefers. Just because there are more athletes at certain middle weights on average doesn't make it a moral need for more weights groups concentratesdin in the middle for college. Yes, more will watch from the bleachers, but sports are like life; it's not fair. There are countless wrestlers who would love to be at D1, too. But it's an elite level. You can't satisfy everyone. Thus, people have to choose their preference.
I think it's good for the college sport to add this Olympic weight. I know I'd love to watch it. It would be exciting to see the more elite athletes we could get in there.
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No, completely wrong - I don't know how you can't see it.
HS has provided 29% of the weight classes to just 10% of the male high school population -- those over 182 pounds. Yet the number of kids who wrestle in those weight classes is extremely low, with forfeits common. Even the guys who fill those spots are mainly football players who the wrestling coach begs to put on a singlet. Because they are just not interested in it - not surprising because football is available to them.
You don't think if a middle weight class wasn't added it would not be filled with good wrestlers? Of course it would. It would be filled with far superior wrestlers than 220 would have in anyone's wildest imaginations.
It's a numbers game. The numbers in the 200+ range are a fraction of those in the 150 range. This cannot be argued.
EDIT. And btw, while clearly it is more "fair" to add a weight class in the middle, it's also better for the sport, simply because you would be adding a good weight class and lots of talent instead of a poor weight class with much less talent. Why would you want to lower the quality of wrestling? How could that be good for the sport?
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HS has provided 29% of the weight classes to just 10% of the male high school population -- those over 182 pounds.
I'd argue you don't want to target the entire male HS population - but that there e is a direct correlation between a HS kids weight percentile and the likelihood he goes out for a sport. There is probably some negative correlation at the extreme top, but either way we should target the athletes, and even at a 2A school in Iowa, you have plenty of them over 180.
Yet the number of kids who wrestle in those weight classes is extremely low, with forfeits common. Even the guys who fill those spots are mainly football players who the wrestling coach begs to put on a singlet. Because they are just not interested in it - not surprising because football is available to them.
Nobody is arguing there aren't more kids in the middle, but there aren't so many kids in the middle that elite kids are getting squeezed out. They all see a path to success (ie, a weight class they can succeed at), they just have to beat somebody out. Kids who would top out in college at 220 may not have that right now, unless they want to bulk up or cut. And again, there are enough college programs that their aren't elite wrestlers at those weights getting left out. (Aside from the ones riding the pine in Happy Valley, who just want to be part of a winning program). Maybe the bottom half of 220 is a dumpster fire at nationals, but top 16 or 8 are gonna be nails.
Why would you want to lower the quality of wrestling? How could that be good for the sport?
I take it you aren't a fan of adding the womens program, then? i doubt the women would win many matches against men in their weight class. Thats obviously a ridiculous argument - more participation is good for the sport. There is no shortage at the lower weights, there is no problem to solve there. As others have said, if there is a demand for 220lb wrestlers, the supply will eventually follow.
As it is, if a kid is 180 pounds or less, unless he has speed to be a DB or WR , his options for college athletics are limited. There are lots of other factors involved, but I have to imagine there are enough Tweeners that this could be a dynamite weight class. If nothing else, it would very possibly give a guy like BK a better chance at a national title his freshman year, unless FB S&C has gotten him too big already
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I get what your saying but a lot of the athletes in hs in the 165-195 range end up in the 190-220 range past 18 as their bodies develop. So while yes there are fewer athletes in hs in the 195-220lb range by 18-23 many more athletes do fall in that range. Many of my friends and I went from 165lbs to the 215lbs range between the ages 15 to 23 despite staying in peak athletic form. I for example was 6'1" 165 my FR year of hs but by FR year of college was 6'2" and 208lbs and in the best shape of my life at tgs time. I ended up 6'2" 223 by my JR year but felt at my absolute peak in life right around 210-215.
Well the 220 ish weight class exists in HS and the Olympics….. so I can’t see why you’re arguing there shouldn’t be one in college…..guess guys that size should just give the sport up or skip college and go to the OTC ……
. All that being said the powers that be agree with you…,,, there’s no 220 class in college
I see you still fail to see that since the weight is not available in college it would deter some larger elite athletes from going the wrestling route. Why get good at something at which there is no weight for you at the next level? Better to just get heavier and try the football route.
Anyway, it's ridiculous it's available at the high school weight, but not at college, especially since it's an Olympic weight. It's a large country. We would see some amazing athletes at that weight in D1 if it was available, and that would help the U.S. be even better at that weight.
Wait...You are arguing that the reason we have very few high school 182, 195, 220, and HWT wrestlers is because there is no 220 pound weight class in college? And so, if we set aside 40% of college weight classes for the largest 15% of the male population, big kids will start flocking to wrestling in high school, thus supplying colleges with talent level equal to what we see at middle weights?
As our President might say, "Come on, man."
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Well, the bottom half of the bracket at nationals might be a dumpster fire, but the top half….. lol
I could see adding a middle weight and spreading out the upper weights a bit more. Somewhat related, I find that meets often end with the least interesting matches of the meet (i.e. the heavier weights). Sure there are exceptions but for me the matches after 174 or so are kind of anti-climactic. Crazy idea for the purists here but how about randomizing the order of matches for each meet? No real reason, other than tradition, to go in order of weight.
I believe that is the rule, isn’t it? But coaches can agree to forego the draw and start at a weight that they choose.
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Always seems like 157-174 is just loaded with talent, so extend that range a bit and span 4 classes.
125, 133, 141, 148, 155, 162, 169, 178, 189, 205, 285
125, 133, 141, 148, 155, 162, 169, 178, 189, 205, 285
Yes, but they still proceed in order from the starting weight on, yes? So you still have the heaviest weights in succession, just that occasionally they are interrupted by intermission. I am talking about randomizing the order, not just the starting weight. I don't think the rules allow that but I could be wrong.
Ah - I was skimming and didn’t read it carefully. Yeah, that would be fun. Like HS, each match now gets progressively slower. Randomizing it would be fun.
The problem with that, and the reason Iowa will always vote to start at 125, is so they have a consistent cut/prep every dual. Huge difference for the bigger guys that are used to having multiple matches + intermission before they wrestle.
