Oh look, another Trump/Musk policy that screws rural Americans

[seminole97]

I’ve gradually come to the opinion that healthcare shouldn’t be guided by profit considerations.

Profit isn't a bad thing, it's an absolutely critical thing. It tells entrepreneurs where there is unmet need that they can invest to increase production, and earn some of those available profits.
It is the necessary signal to resolve the demonstrable imbalance of supply and demand.
Without it you only have bureaucratic whim to decide production, with absolutely no consequences guiding the decision making.

You want healthcare/insurance for optional care? Be my guest. If it’s the choice between someone living or dying, that shouldn’t be guided by whether the insurance company will make money.

Everyone is going to die. Everyone.
All healthcare is an 'optional expense'.
Why do you think you have the right to further your life at someone else's expense?

The decision to plow one's savings into prolonging the last months or years of life should be up to the individual. If you'd rather leave your savings to your heirs, that's your right. If you want to spend it all on a few more months or years, and leave nothing behind, that's also your right. What you shouldn't be allowed to do is plunder others under the color of law.

You need food to live. Do you really think you'd be better off paying a 'food tax' and letting bureaucrats decide what food is produced, and how much you get? Or are we better off letting producers follow the signals of supply and demand with the profit-loss system weeding out the inefficient and undesired producers?

Vast experiments on this very subject have been conducted. Witness East/West Germany, and their relative outcomes across the entire spectrum of consumption.

 

[Tom Paris]

So much this.

These single-pay or advocates always seem to see it as a fix for private insurer claim denials.

Well, how free with money do you think an “insurance company” that is $36 Trillion in debt is going to be? It will be denial city!

Nobody wants to trade with us…but I’m sure you know better. 🤡

 

[Moral]

Profit isn't a bad thing, it's an absolutely critical thing. It tells entrepreneurs where there is unmet need that they can invest to increase production, and earn some of those available profits.
It is the necessary signal to resolve the demonstrable imbalance of supply and demand.
Without it you only have bureaucratic whim to decide production, with absolutely no consequences guiding the decision making.


Everyone is going to die. Everyone.
All healthcare is an 'optional expense'.
Why do you think you have the right to further your life at someone else's expense?

The decision to plow one's savings into prolonging the last months or years of life should be up to the individual. If you'd rather leave your savings to your heirs, that's your right. If you want to spend it all on a few more months or years, and leave nothing behind, that's also your right. What you shouldn't be allowed to do is plunder others under the color of law.

You need food to live. Do you really think you'd be better off paying a 'food tax' and letting bureaucrats decide what food is produced, and how much you get? Or are we better off letting producers follow the signals of supply and demand with the profit-loss system weeding out the inefficient and undesired producers?

Vast experiments on this very subject have been conducted. Witness East/West Germany, and their relative outcomes across the entire spectrum of consumption.

Peter Thiel bot detected.

 

[seminole97]

Peter Thiel bot detected.

My favorite thing about Bernie bros is watching them defend capitalism to explain why it's justified for Bernie to have a lakeside dacha when there are thousands and thousands of homeless people.
Millionaires were the problem until he became one, now the billionaires are the problem.
lulz

 

[sober_teacher]

Everyone is going to die. Everyone.
All healthcare is an 'optional expense'.
Why do you think you have the right to further your life at someone else's expense?

Well from this perspective why have doctors/hospitals at all?

There’s a MASSIVE gap between - you need surgery/treatment A or you will be dead in a week vs you will live a long time with this disease but we can treat it.

Sorry but I think it’s a false choice to talk about furthering my life at someone else’s expense.

Nice chat but we clearly disagree on healthcare being a for profit industry. I think everyone should have access to healthcare regardless of costs. To me, when you start to bring in profits as a consideration you’re excluding a large chunk of the population. The rich will get every surgery and treatment they want; everyone else is screwed.

 

[seminole97]

Well from this perspective why have doctors/hospitals at all?

Because people want them. I want to let people buy what they want, but with their money.
Profits will tattle on whether too much or too little of what people want is being made.
There is no more honest signal.

Sorry but I think it’s a false choice to talk about furthering my life at someone else’s expense.

All the 'other people payer' arguments boil down to people wanting things at someone else's expense.
Without exception.
I believe you're entitled to all the healthcare you're willing to buy, with your money, from people willing to sell it to you.

Nice chat but we clearly disagree on healthcare being a for profit industry.

How do you know whether to make less chocolate ice cream and more podiatry clinics if you don't have profits guided investment in production?
What is the signal?

I think everyone should have access to healthcare regardless of costs.

Then send every dime you have to that end. The rest of us have other wants too.
If I want to go to a football game instead of pay for your healthcare, why shouldn't I?

To me, when you start to bring in profits as a consideration you’re excluding a large chunk of the population. The rich will get every surgery and treatment they want; everyone else is screwed.

Profits drive automobile manufacture, are cars a plaything of only the rich? That was only the case in the most socialist countries.
Greedy capitalists built cars for poor people too, because those people want them enough to pay for them, so there is incentive to produce cars they can afford. No one is 'screwed'. You can obtain as much of what other people produce (from cars to surgery to chocolate ice cream) as you're willing to pay for. You decide how to balance the importance of that spending, and your willingness to spend provides the signal producers need to know what to produce.
If someone overeats and then wants me to pay for their gastric bypass, under what rationale does that legitimately become my burden?

 

[RileyHawk]

Because people want them. I want to let people buy what they want, but with their money.
Profits will tattle on whether too much or too little of what people want is being made.
There is no more honest signal.



All the 'other people payer' arguments boil down to people wanting things at someone else's expense.
Without exception.
I believe you're entitled to all the healthcare you're willing to buy, with your money, from people willing to sell it to you.



How do you know whether to make less chocolate ice cream and more podiatry clinics if you don't have profits guided investment in production?
What is the signal?



Then send every dime you have to that end. The rest of us have other wants too.
If I want to go to a football game instead of pay for your healthcare, why shouldn't I?


Profits drive automobile manufacture, are cars a plaything of only the rich? That was only the case in the most socialist countries.
Greedy capitalists built cars for poor people too, because those people want them enough to pay for them, so there is incentive to produce cars they can afford. No one is 'screwed'. You can obtain as much of what other people produce (from cars to surgery to chocolate ice cream) as you're willing to pay for. You decide how to balance the importance of that spending, and your willingness to spend provides the signal producers need to know what to produce.
If someone overeats and then wants me to pay for their gastric bypass, under what rationale does that legitimately become my burden?

So you are an advocate for refusing treatment to someone unless they have proof they can pay for the procedure?

I'm confident you will ignore this question too.

 

[Moral]

My favorite thing about Bernie bros is watching them defend capitalism to explain why it's justified for Bernie to have a lakeside dacha when there are thousands and thousands of homeless people.
Millionaires were the problem until he became one, now the billionaires are the problem.
lulz

The masks off with you isn't it? You are as much of a clown as scruddy. Have fun shilling for the oligarchs.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Because people want them. I want to let people buy what they want, but with their money.
Profits will tattle on whether too much or too little of what people want is being made.
There is no more honest signal.

This is silly.

People don’t want doctors and hospitals. People need them.

 

[sober_teacher]

Because people want them. I want to let people buy what they want, but with their money.
Profits will tattle on whether too much or too little of what people want is being made.
There is no more honest signal.



All the 'other people payer' arguments boil down to people wanting things at someone else's expense.
Without exception.
I believe you're entitled to all the healthcare you're willing to buy, with your money, from people willing to sell it to you.



How do you know whether to make less chocolate ice cream and more podiatry clinics if you don't have profits guided investment in production?
What is the signal?



Then send every dime you have to that end. The rest of us have other wants too.
If I want to go to a football game instead of pay for your healthcare, why shouldn't I?


Profits drive automobile manufacture, are cars a plaything of only the rich? That was only the case in the most socialist countries.
Greedy capitalists built cars for poor people too, because those people want them enough to pay for them, so there is incentive to produce cars they can afford. No one is 'screwed'. You can obtain as much of what other people produce (from cars to surgery to chocolate ice cream) as you're willing to pay for. You decide how to balance the importance of that spending, and your willingness to spend provides the signal producers need to know what to produce.
If someone overeats and then wants me to pay for their gastric bypass, under what rationale does that legitimately become my burden?

I disagree with everything in this post. Moving on.

 

[Moral]

This is silly.

People don’t want doctors and hospitals. People need them.

I'm hardly joking when I called him a Peter Thiel bot. This one they have posting too many Tyler Durden articles.

 

[fsu1jreed]

And yet they still prefer their socialized healthcare systems over ours just like every other advanced country does.

Yep, they laugh at us

 

[sober_teacher]

I'm hardly joking when I called him a Peter Thiel bot. This one they have posting too many Tyler Durden articles.

I mean, I have a hard time believing that people are actually happy with how our healthcare/health insurance systems are set up; but at this point it’s about making the best of bad systems because starting over seems too overwhelming to too many people.

 

[seminole97]

This is silly.

People don’t want doctors and hospitals. People need them.

You need food even more.
Better off letting government bureaucrats decide how much and what food to make, where to distribute it, and what to price it?
Again, we have enormous, multi-decade experiments conducted on this subject to compare.
It isn't merely theoretical.
What's silly is to ignore that evidence.

 

[seminole97]

I disagree with everything in this post. Moving on.

Disagreeing is fine, but can you actually answer any of the questions posed to you?

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

You need food even more.
Better off letting government bureaucrats decide how much and what food to make, where to distribute it, and what to price it?
Again, we have enormous, multi-decade experiments conducted on this subject to compare.
It isn't merely theoretical.
What's silly is to ignore that evidence.

I think in the case of health care, yes. We already take care of the health care of millions through government programs.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I'm hardly joking when I called him a Peter Thiel bot. This one they have posting too many Tyler Durden articles.

I’m preparing for the interrogation

 

[artradley]

That makes no sense. A government not making profit and willing to overspend vs a corporation making 6 billion dollars of net income every three months and you think the corporation is going to deny less claims. Truly laughable.

Yeah, thinking government is more likely to deny claims than a for-profit corporation requires a fair amount of illogic.

 

[Moral]

I’m preparing for the interrogation

Anyone else notice he is often asking people why they haven't answered his question.

 

[noleclone2]

I'm hardly joking when I called him a Peter Thiel bot. This one they have posting too many Tyler Durden articles.

I finally had to block Natty Light. Just could not handle the stupidity nor the italics.

 

[sober_teacher]

Disagreeing is fine, but can you actually answer any of the questions posed to you?

I’m not going to bother - you and I are clearly at polar opposites here; I just don’t see a benefit to continuing this discussion.

 

[Moral]

I finally had to block Natty Light. Just could not handle the stupidity nor the italics.

Those two are the only Tyler Durden posters. Exact same positions on about everything, @Nat Algren didn't slip the mask until he vanished to the front lines. I'm not saying they are the same person but there is a little smoke there.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

FAFO TOUR 2025 - It’s a Hoot!

View embedded media

LOL - More flailing from the losing side. LOL Torbee and his ilk are like turtles rolled over on their backs just flailing at thin air.

 

[RileyHawk]

I’m not going to bother - you and I are clearly at polar opposites here; I just don’t see a benefit to continuing this discussion.

Particularly with someone who demands answers to their questions while refusing to answer those posed to him.

Complete hypocrite with very shallow thinking.

 

[sober_teacher]

Those two are the only Tyler Durden posters. Exact same positions on about everything, @Nat Algren didn't slip the mask until he vanished to the front lines. I'm not saying they are the same person but there is a little smoke there.

Poor Nat…still hoping he makes it out alive.

He’s got to be one of the most mythical posters out there, right?

 

[sober_teacher]

LOL - More flailing from the losing side. LOL Torbee and his ilk are like turtles rolled over on their backs just flailing at thin air.

Look, he posted in BOLD this time!

 

[Moral]

Poor Nat…still hoping he makes it out alive.

He’s got to be one of the most mythical posters out there, right?

He does. A true American Russian hero.

 

[sober_teacher]

He does. A true American Russian hero.

I always kind of admired about anything that happened anywhere in the world…he’d find a way to blame the USA.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Look, he posted in BOLD this time!

Glad you noticed, I was told simpleminded people are attracted to bright shiny things and now I'm sure of it.

 

[sober_teacher]

Glad you noticed, I was told simpleminded people are attracted to bright shiny things and now I'm sure of it.

You prove it to us every day😁

 

[RicoSuave102954]

You prove it to us every day😁

I've burned you so many times your nickname should be sober toast.

 

[sober_teacher]

I've burned you so many times your nickname should be sober toast.

Sure you have.

If you need all caps or bolder fonts your point is what you think it is.

 

[Tom Paris]

I mean, I have a hard time believing that people are actually happy with how our healthcare/health insurance systems are set up; but at this point it’s about making the best of bad systems because starting over seems too overwhelming to too many people.

Every month my insurance company makes it a complete pain to renew a prescription my doctor wants me to take. When I walked out of the pharmacy yesterday, after being told they could only give it to me for $900, I said to myself, this is the kind of thing that now gets CEOs killed. It’s maddening. No other country has citizens dealing with this. Every month they make my doctor jump through hoops.

 

[markfromj]

Insurance companies are actually…effectively killing Americans in reality.

No, they aren’t.

 

[markfromj]

That makes no sense. A government not making profit and willing to overspend vs a corporation making 6 billion dollars of net income every three months and you think the corporation is going to deny less claims. Truly laughable.

$36 Trillion.

 

[Tom Paris]

No, they aren’t.

Yes they are, mark.

 

[DFSNOLE]

Anyone else notice he is often asking people why they haven't answered his question.

Have you ever noticed he very, very rarely cites the source of his copy/paste opinion pieces? They're probably as reliable as Scruddy's.

 

[herkyhawk00]

FAFO TOUR 2025 - It’s a Hoot!

View embedded media

Policy? They aren’t even in office yet and nothing has been passed. Chill!

 

[Moral]

Have you ever noticed he very, very rarely cites the source of his copy/paste opinion pieces? They're probably as reliable as Scruddy's.

Sometimes I google them just to see which libertarian think tank it is or if it is zerohedge etc. It's pretty much always one of those.

 

[DFSNOLE]

I've burned you so many times your nickname should be sober toast.

I've said it before. Rico is Ryan's dumbest and most entertaining handle. 😂