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Ohio schools give students surrender your rights cards

THE_DEVIL

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Ohio Schools Just Started Passing Out These Disturbing Police State ‘Guides’ For Students

“If you are stopped on the street, answer all questions pertaining to your identity…” that’s what Ohio schools are now telling students. Rather than informing them of their rights, schools are doubling down on police assumptions of power, and telling kids to shut their mouths and comply with more or less whatever police tell them… whether it’s legally required of them or not.

Last week, each and every middle and high school student in Akron, Ohio, received glossy, two-sided card that purported to be the result of collaboration between an anti-violence youth group and the city’s police department. But to read the card, it sounds more like it was written by police alone. The message is clear: “do whatever we tell you and we will not kill you.”


The only problem is that this “You and the Law” card starts with the assumption that the student has violated the law in some way. If they have not, they have no reason to answer any police questions, including regarding their identity.

Some of the statements on the card are also of dubious credibility. “If the officer believes a crime has been committed, your car can be searched without a court-issued warrant.”

That’s not exactly correct. If the officer has “probable cause” to believe a crime has been committed, that is another story. But simply “believing” that a crime has been committed does not give a police officer the right to search your car without consent to a search or a warrant. The card never tells students that they can say “I refuse to consent to a search” nor that they have the right to ask “Am I being detained?” and “Am I free to go?”

Why not?

Informing them of their rights is simply not on the radar for the “collaborative” effort of the police department. They are not, for instance, informed about their right to leave a police interaction if they are not being formally detained. Instead, they are told to just do whatever the officer says, whether they are required to or not. The police couldn’t have planned it any better. And now, the schools are in on the police state propaganda, forcing students to swallow this line of propaganda, with no choice for families to opt their children out.


The group that worked with the local police department to produce the propaganda pieces are called the Akron PeaceMakers. Member Devin Clark said that they raised $1,500 to print 50,000 of the cards.

When they get put in the situation, they’re going to look back at that card and be like, ‘Wow. You know, that helped when I actually read that.’ It’ll put them in a better position,” Clark explained.

Student Rachel Cooke received one of the cards. She was disappointed that the onus is put on the student. She explained that it’s important that the cards recognize that police officers can, and in many cases actually are. the transgressors.


“I’m not saying that all cops are bad, but there are cops that are drunk on their power, I would say. So I think that it holds them responsible so they can stay in line,” Cooke explained. “They have to obey the law just like we do.”

(Article by M. David)
 
Ohio Schools Just Started Passing Out These Disturbing Police State ‘Guides’ For Students

“If you are stopped on the street, answer all questions pertaining to your identity…” that’s what Ohio schools are now telling students. Rather than informing them of their rights, schools are doubling down on police assumptions of power, and telling kids to shut their mouths and comply with more or less whatever police tell them… whether it’s legally required of them or not.

Last week, each and every middle and high school student in Akron, Ohio, received glossy, two-sided card that purported to be the result of collaboration between an anti-violence youth group and the city’s police department. But to read the card, it sounds more like it was written by police alone. The message is clear: “do whatever we tell you and we will not kill you.”


The only problem is that this “You and the Law” card starts with the assumption that the student has violated the law in some way. If they have not, they have no reason to answer any police questions, including regarding their identity.

Some of the statements on the card are also of dubious credibility. “If the officer believes a crime has been committed, your car can be searched without a court-issued warrant.”

That’s not exactly correct. If the officer has “probable cause” to believe a crime has been committed, that is another story. But simply “believing” that a crime has been committed does not give a police officer the right to search your car without consent to a search or a warrant. The card never tells students that they can say “I refuse to consent to a search” nor that they have the right to ask “Am I being detained?” and “Am I free to go?”

Why not?

Informing them of their rights is simply not on the radar for the “collaborative” effort of the police department. They are not, for instance, informed about their right to leave a police interaction if they are not being formally detained. Instead, they are told to just do whatever the officer says, whether they are required to or not. The police couldn’t have planned it any better. And now, the schools are in on the police state propaganda, forcing students to swallow this line of propaganda, with no choice for families to opt their children out.


The group that worked with the local police department to produce the propaganda pieces are called the Akron PeaceMakers. Member Devin Clark said that they raised $1,500 to print 50,000 of the cards.

When they get put in the situation, they’re going to look back at that card and be like, ‘Wow. You know, that helped when I actually read that.’ It’ll put them in a better position,” Clark explained.

Student Rachel Cooke received one of the cards. She was disappointed that the onus is put on the student. She explained that it’s important that the cards recognize that police officers can, and in many cases actually are. the transgressors.


“I’m not saying that all cops are bad, but there are cops that are drunk on their power, I would say. So I think that it holds them responsible so they can stay in line,” Cooke explained. “They have to obey the law just like we do.”

(Article by M. David)

You guys are joking right? You find this offensive how? If a cop stops you, answer his or her questions and be respectful. End of story. Good God.
 
This sounds about right for the loons in Ohio. They could put a fence around that state and call it a zoo.
 
You guys are joking right? You find this offensive how? If a cop stops you, answer his or her questions and be respectful. End of story. Good God.

Not sure if serious. So you would let a cop search you at random? Or detain you for questioning for a crime you didn't commit? And answer all questions without an attorney present?
 
You guys are joking right? You find this offensive how? If a cop stops you, answer his or her questions and be respectful. End of story. Good God.
Oh brother. Immigrants who arrive in the USA from totalitarian states know NOT to trust the po po. They enforce the dictates of the evil politicians in power. Don't tell them anything.
 
You guys are joking right? You find this offensive how? If a cop stops you, answer his or her questions and be respectful. End of story. Good God.

I don't have a problem with giving them your identity but it is within your right to not answer their questions. Also it's within your rights to refuse a search.

Seems like 80% of the convictions we get anymore rely on people not knowing that they can *and should* remain silent.
 
Not sure if serious. So you would let a cop search you at random? Or detain you for questioning for a crime you didn't commit? And answer all questions without an attorney present?

Yes, I thnk it would be much better to provoke the cops and get them to tase you.
 
Seems like 80% of the convictions we get anymore rely on people not knowing that they can *and should* remain silent.

I'm not following what you're trying to say here?

Would it be better if criminals were silent and not convicted? And what is the 80% statistic?

Here's my take on this thread - these cards may be stupid, but I would say it is equally stupid to be uncooperative with police. What I've found, over and over, is if you're respectful to them they are respectful to you in return. If you are mouthy with them, they will probably try to find a reason to make your life difficult.
 
I'm not following what you're trying to say here?

Would it be better if criminals were silent and not convicted? And what is the 80% statistic?

Here's my take on this thread - these cards may be stupid, but I would say it is equally stupid to be uncooperative with police. What I've found, over and over, is if you're respectful to them they are respectful to you in return. If you are mouthy with them, they will probably try to find a reason to make your life difficult.
But they aren't respectful to anyone who isn't white. Just ask all the whites here who have first-hand experience of such a thing or read about it on msnbc.com

Thread is a joke. As such, I laughed. Thanks.
 
I'm not following what you're trying to say here?

Would it be better if criminals were silent and not convicted? And what is the 80% statistic?

Here's my take on this thread - these cards may be stupid, but I would say it is equally stupid to be uncooperative with police. What I've found, over and over, is if you're respectful to them they are respectful to you in return. If you are mouthy with them, they will probably try to find a reason to make your life difficult.

Very naive.
 
I'm not following what you're trying to say here?

Would it be better if criminals were silent and not convicted? And what is the 80% statistic?

Here's my take on this thread - these cards may be stupid, but I would say it is equally stupid to be uncooperative with police. What I've found, over and over, is if you're respectful to them they are respectful to you in return. If you are mouthy with them, they will probably try to find a reason to make your life difficult.

Honestly I've seen enough people convicted/pled guilty and later found to be not guilty that I don't really trust the police to do a fair interview anymore.

All you have to do to draw a false confession is scare someone enough and pretend like if they just confess that everyone is gonna go easy on them. It happens time and time again.

I'm not arguing one should be disrespectful with the police. But if they are investigating me I'm not saying a word.
 
If this was the cop - sure:

very-dirty-cop.jpg
 
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Three guys are walking down the the street. Two walk into a bar, the third one ducked.
 
Oh. I see. Asserting one's rights is disrespecting law enforcement. Got it.

Not at all. But by the same token, a police officer asking somebody a question isn't a violation of that person's rights. And, call me crazy, but I've found that a substantial majority of the time officers don't ask people questions unless there is a problem, either created by the person in question or by another person and witnessed by the person in question.

This isn't about the really egregious behaviors of law enforcement, in my opinion. Civil forfeiture is horrible, but that's not what this is about. No-knock house entries are terrible, but again, that's not what this is about. Militarization of the police force is certainly questionable, but again that's not what this is about.
 
This isn't about the really egregious behaviors of law enforcement, in my opinion. Civil forfeiture is horrible, but that's not what this is about. No-knock house entries are terrible, but again, that's not what this is about. Militarization of the police force is certainly questionable, but again that's not what this is about.
Good points. But what is it about?

What it seems to be about is instilling a default attitude of subservience and submissiveness to authority in school children.
 
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What it seems to be about is instilling a default attitude of subservience and submissiveness to authority in school children.

I can see how it could be assessed this way.

On the other hand, if the legalese were correct (perhaps THAT'S the issue?) it could be interpreted as fostering an environment where young people respect police, see them as friendly helpers, and not as aggressive foes.

In general, and actually MORE than "in general", cops don't hassle people for sport.
 
Not at all. But by the same token, a police officer asking somebody a question isn't a violation of that person's rights. And, call me crazy, but I've found that a substantial majority of the time officers don't ask people questions unless there is a problem, either created by the person in question or by another person and witnessed by the person in question.

This isn't about the really egregious behaviors of law enforcement, in my opinion. Civil forfeiture is horrible, but that's not what this is about. No-knock house entries are terrible, but again, that's not what this is about. Militarization of the police force is certainly questionable, but again that's not what this is about.

What is it you think this is about?

Your examples are clear descriptions of officers creating problems where they didn't have one.
 
In general, and actually MORE than "in general", cops don't hassle people for sport.

I don't think anyone is claiming this, I think most believe they are trained to do this, not for sport but for business.

Such as Forfeiture, which you agree is a problem. Specifically stopping out of state people on no suspicion, searching their vehicle, and confiscating non-suspicious money.

Same with things like stop and frisk, which is stopping people specifically without regard to suspicion.

You seem to acknowledge these things, but then claim police really don't do these things enough for our complaints/concerns in this thread.

I'm curious how you separate these things.

We aren't talking rogue LA cops from movies, we are talking about systemic, nationwide practices.
 
Go back to the original post. Somehow we've gone from CHILDREN being told to listen to police and answer their questions to you claiming this has to do with the egregious things I listed. It doesn't. And I laugh that any of these kids should feel like they will be "killed" by the police. You can cherry pick an example or two from anywhere, but the odds are overwhelmingly against an Ohio officer killing a middle schooler or a high schooler who refuses to speak with them.

Here's the quote from the OP, to prove just how out of context this has become:

Last week, each and every middle and high school student in Akron, Ohio, received glossy, two-sided card that purported to be the result of collaboration between an anti-violence youth group and the city’s police department. But to read the card, it sounds more like it was written by police alone. The message is clear: “do whatever we tell you and we will not kill you.”
 
I guess I fail to see how training children to trust/obey law enforcement is NOT setting up all of those concerns later in life.

Are you thinking we give them a real class and brochure on our rights when they get older?

If the concern isn't over safety of the children re: police, what is the purpose of the cards?
 
If the concern isn't over safety of the children re: police, what is the purpose of the cards?

I am under the impression the schools and law enforcement are working together on this initiative.

My guess would be both sides want to find common ground with students respecting and cooperating with police, and understanding the police are not there to be "drunk on power" and make things intentionally difficult for the students.

I choose to assume people will be responsible and make the right choices in life. If they do that, the odds are overwhelmingly against them being a victim of some sort of police over-stretch. If they don't do that, the odds are damn near 100% they will be forced to answer to law enforcement personnel AND the court system. If they choose to have a poor attitude during those interactions, or more likely than not be a repeat offender, then eventually actions could escalate on either side and we could have a problem.

This final iteration is what typically ends up on TV screens and we all go to our pre-determined corners to start the arguing and finger pointing before any of the true facts are known.
 
You are certainly right about your last point:

We only hear about the bad guys.

We do NOT hear about the other X number of illegal stops they made to get to the bad guy. Which allows people, like you, to believe it really only happens to bad guys.

It is extremely rare that the soccer mom stopped illegally on the way to church will ever complain that officers pulled her over and searched her vehicle. It takes the extreme examples for us to ever know these practices take place.

Who wants to watch a YouTube video where the person is allowed to move on without being shot? No one, even though the Constitutional violations are identical.
 
One needs to survive the encounter to sue for civil rights violations so probably a good idea.

Yes - such a shame that Tamir Rice didn't have one of those cards as he sat on a table in Ohio right before being shot to death. Totally sure that would have helped him survive the encounter. :(
 
You guys are joking right? You find this offensive how? If a cop stops you, answer his or her questions and be respectful. End of story. Good God.

I can answer questions politely and respectfully, but there may be instances where my answer will be to state (again, respectfully) why I'm not going to submit to the search or answer the question.
 
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