PED use in NCAA Wrestling

[WatWest00]

He went from walking around at 185 to walking around at 200 in a year. His body did not look good year 1 at 86kg. He now walks around at 205-210. His body looks good now. It took him 5 years to move up from going 163 to 189 and win a world title...with different weigh in rules as well. So he essientally put on 20-25 pounds in 5 years.

I am blown away by how low IQ you are. You have obviously never spent serious time in a weight room and instead just type nonsense while probably eating Cheetos. Have a good day and please don’t respond.

Let’s dissect your stupidity. We started with “... a guy went from 185 to 200 in a year and his body goes to hell” ... and when I question what you mean by saying his body went to hell you say, “His body did not look good year 1 at 86 kg.” Ok. You have quite the aesthetic eye, even going so far as saying his body looks good now, lol.

“It took him 5 years to move up from 163 to 189 and win a world title ... essentially put on 20-25 pounds in 5 years.” It took him less than a year to move up nearly 27 pounds and was very successful right away ... beating one of the great Olympic champions early on. And BTW, he didn’t move up to 86kg until late 2015. Even if I try to do the math thinking from the perspective of a total moron like yourself, I still can’t get to 5 years.

I don’t have to justify my IQ to a bonehead like you, but I’ll just say that I’ve done very well in that arena. And I haven’t taken a week off from lifting in nearly 25 years ... as if that matters in the subject at hand. Take an L like a man.

 

[24 so far]

There is no way someone can out coach Iowa, thus all the teams that beat Iowa are probably cheating.

The Iowa fan base will never accept the fact that Cael Sanderson and company are out coaching them every year.

Your next Troll name should be current D'Bag instead of former anything.

 

[24 so far]

What’s the crux of this thread? PSU guys use. They’re evil. Iowa guys don’t use. They’re angels. Is that it?

Figure it out Skippy.

 

[HawkTalk84]

Let’s dissect your stupidity. We started with “... a guy went from 185 to 200 in a year and his body goes to hell” ... and when I question what you mean by saying his body went to hell you say, “His body did not look good year 1 at 86 kg.” Ok. You have quite the aesthetic eye, even going so far as saying his body looks good now, lol.

“It took him 5 years to move up from 163 to 189 and win a world title ... essentially put on 20-25 pounds in 5 years.” It took him less than a year to move up nearly 27 pounds and was very successful right away ... beating one of the great Olympic champions early on. And BTW, he wrestled 63kg in 2016. Even if I try to do the math thinking from the perspective of a total moron like yourself, I still can’t get to 5 years.

I don’t have to justify my IQ to a bonehead like you, but I’ll just say that I’ve done very well in that arena. And I haven’t taken a week off from lifting in nearly 25 years ... as if that matters in the subject at hand. Take an L like a man.

Now let’s dissect your stupidity. You claim he’s on steroids...no evidence that he’s actually on steroids besides you being a hater. Him going up weight classes and having success is evidence he’s on steroids, right? What about Jordan Burroughs going from a .500 guy at 141 to a stud at 165 while in college? Kyle Dake doing the same and now he’s up at 174. He even wrestled 74kg a year after making 141 and competed very well against Andrew Howe. How is that possible without steroids? You going to accuse them of it now?

He went 86kg at the Olympic Trials in 2016 and lost to Kyle Dake there. He certainly wasn’t at 63kg in 2016.

 

[WatWest00]

Now let’s dissect your stupidity. You claim he’s on steroids...no evidence that he’s actually on steroids besides you being a hater. Him going up weight classes and having success is evidence he’s on steroids, right? What about Jordan Burroughs going from a .500 guy at 141 to a stud at 165 while in college? Kyle Dake doing the same and now he’s up at 174. He even wrestled 74kg a year after making 141 and competed very well against Andrew Howe. How is that possible without steroids? You going to accuse them of it now?

He went 86kg at the Olympic Trials in 2016 and lost to Kyle Dake there. He certainly wasn’t at 63kg in 2016.

Read my post again. He wrestled Burroughs in June of 2014 and in late 2015 he was at 86 kg. How do we get to 5 years again?

 

[HawkTalk84]

Read my post again. He wrestled Burroughs in June of 2014 and in late 2015 he was at 86 kg. How do we get to 5 years again?

Read my post again. Are you going to accuse Burroughs or Dake of steroids for moving up in weight so quickly or just DT?

 

[WatWest00]

Read my post again. Are you going to accuse Burroughs or Dake of steroids for moving up in weight so quickly or just DT?

Those guys moved up 1 college weight class per year. Roughly 8 pounds per year. We’re talking 27 pounds of lean muscle in 1 year for DT. I’m pulling for you; I really am.

 

[HawkTalk84]

Those guys moved up 1 college weight class per year. Roughly 8 pounds per year. We’re talking 27 pounds of lean muscle in 1 year for DT. I’m pulling for you; I really am.

He gained 27lbs of lean muscle? You have evidence of that?

 

[drunkengoat]

Then explain how small amounts of testosterone derivatives have a physiological effect that leads to performance enhancement.
Orals work quickly , as do straight test. Many testosterones will have an ester to help it stay in your system longer. Straight test will be gone in a day. But for that to have a pronounced physiological effect you’ll need a certain dose .
You can’t take next to nothing and get these incredible effects. You get nothing. Caffeine tablets , a stimulant, will have more of an effect .

What “orals” are you referring to?

 

[fizzyskittles]

What “orals” are you referring to?

Pills or capsules such as anavar (quite rare), dianobol , anadrol are good examples. Their effectiveness is that day mainly , they’re also out of your system quicker than say deca or test ( with esters) injections. Tests are much more effective now than a generation ago and go back father.
It still doesn’t change the fact that small amounts of anabolics can have some amazing effect but escape detection. Possibly a new drug that evades the test could do that but high level testing will get vstiiis derivatives ( similar to how your aunt’s dna will be a close match to yours ).
This micro dosing nonsense is more likely a marketing scam for the gullible. I’ll gibe another example , legal law wise supplements can be quite expensive. 15 or so years ago I saw guys bragging on t nation about all the supplements they use each month. Literally 400-700$ a month.
I suggested food and anabolics would work better. That’s a lot of ground beef, chicken, and steak with plenty of room for a bottle of test and thirty orals ( app 80$ on the street).
Steroids especially the designer type are quite often a scam targeting the gullible . People actually fake this stuff and rip people off.

 

[Former112]

Your next Troll name should be current D'Bag instead of former anything.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[07mantle]

A certain ripped heavyweight gains 40 lbs of cut muscle to become a heavyweight after not being able to beat out someone in his natural weight. SARMs. Google it. Guidos love it. Cleaner than the anavar.

Think we have a winner here ...reading the thread title..wondered how long it would take...now you didn't 'name' the wrestler but it's pretty obvious who you are referring too ... however, the wrestler wasn't wrestling his 'natural weight' ...he was cutting 20 to 25 lbs, by all accounts, to make weight at 197 ... and there were two heavyweights that did pretty much the same scenario and the other was actually heavier.

 

[07mantle]

I love David Taylor’s wrestling as much as the next guy, but you have to be an idiot to think he made those gains cleanly. I mean, come on.

".......but you have to be an idiot......" lmao .....you set yourself up cleanly for that one ....you got a mirror close by?

 

[In Kirk I Trust]

According to H.H. Mitchell, Journal of Biological Chemistry 158, the brain and heart are composed of 73% water, and the lungs are about 83% water. The skin contains 64% water, muscles and kidneys are 79%, and even the bones are watery: 31%.

so yeah thats about right.

You really think you can just “gain” 28 pounds in water? I’ve studied biology basically my whole life, a little botany, but mainly human related. If you believe this to be true you may be the dumbest person in the world. Or delusional. Speaking of, I have ocean front property in Iowa to sell you, if you’re interested.

 

[armbartilt]

You really think you can just “gain” 28 pounds in water? I’ve studied biology basically my whole life, a little botany, but mainly human related. If you believe this to be true you may be the dumbest person in the world. Or delusional. Speaking of, I have ocean front property in Iowa to sell you, if you’re interested.

Cant see the forest for the trees huh dopey? I will make it simple for you cuz you are stupid. If you gain 40 lbs and your body is about 60% water (see prior reference or just google it ahole).......that is 24lbs of water weight Moran. 40x 0.60 = 24

I don't think you are smart enough to understand 4th grade math. Maybe ask your mom. I pray you don't have children to ask cuz you should not reproduce for the benefit of mankind.
Biology and Botony? Sounds like you didnt get into medical school. I understand why and we the general public are thankful you will not be treating us.

 

[bluroptimo]

PED use will never be stopped. The best you can hope is that the controls do a good job of leveling the playing field.

I do think it’s worth considering the supporting parties. In the case of Russia and the Sochi Olympics they had two big advantages over every other country. First the state sponsored level of organization. Plus the fact that they were swapping samples. This allowed them to compete jacked up to the max. If any situation like that emerged in college athletics I think most would like to see controls put in place to reel it in.

In the meantime the controls are what they are in the NCAA. We are producing great senior level athletes who are passing all those senior level controls.

 

[In Kirk I Trust]

Cant see the forest for the trees huh dopey? I will make it simple for you cuz you are stupid. If you gain 40 lbs and your body is about 60% water (see prior reference or just google it ahole).......that is 24lbs of water weight Moran. 40x 0.60 = 24

I don't think you are smart enough to understand 4th grade math. Maybe ask your mom. I pray you don't have children to ask cuz you should not reproduce for the benefit of mankind.
Biology and Botony? Sounds like you didnt get into medical school. I understand why and we the general public are thankful you will not be treating us.

Lol!!!!!!!!! Wow try hard enough bud?

 

[armbartilt]

Lol!!!!!!!!! Wow try hard enough bud?

Nah.. not 'hard' at all for me to point out your ignorance...... its only 'hard' for the stupid people to see. It is 'hard' to read to your inarticulate drivel....it sounds like an old broken toilet flushing and its contents are identical. Stick to your porn sites dipshit.

 

[In Kirk I Trust]

Nah.. not 'hard' at all for me to point out your ignorance...... its only 'hard' for the stupid people to see. It is 'hard' to read to your inarticulate drivel....it sounds like an old broken toilet flushing and its contents are identical. Stick to your porn sites dipshit.

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!! Just remember because you’re 60% water 60% of every pound you gain is water. That is literally the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard from anyone, IRL or on a message board. Please keep going this is the most entertaining thing I’ve seen in some time.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

You really think you can just “gain” 28 pounds in water? I’ve studied biology basically my whole life, a little botany, but mainly human related. If you believe this to be true you may be the dumbest person in the world. Or delusional. Speaking of, I have ocean front property in Iowa to sell you, if you’re interested.

I really want to understand this.

Does a person who weighs 165 have about 60% water weight (99 pounds)? If that person gains 35 pounds of muscle, does that mean he no longer has 60% water weight? Instead, he only has 49.5% (99/200) water weight? Or, does he gain water weight proportionally, because he is gaining mass that is used to having about 60% water?

Please explain it.

 

[bluroptimo]

I agree there are effectively no controls coming from the NCAA. If they wanted to level the playing field at NCAA’s start drawing blood after the finals and keep samples for ten years. But does anyone really want that?

 

[rossel 33]

There is no way someone can out coach Iowa, thus all the teams that beat Iowa are probably cheating.

The Iowa fan base will never accept the fact that Cael Sanderson and company are out coaching them every year.

Cael never won against Brands during the 6 or 7 years he was ass’t coach or head coach at ISU, but then after taking PSU job, Cael miraculously started “out coaching” everyone.

Got it.

 

[In Kirk I Trust]

I really want to understand this.

Does a person who weighs 165 have about 60% water weight (99 pounds)? If that person gains 35 pounds of muscle, does that mean he no longer has 60% water weight? Instead, he only has 49.5% (99/200) water weight? Or, does he gain water weight proportionally, because he is gaining mass that is used to having about 60% water?

Please explain it.

The 60% of you body as water is using an average body type for a man, woman, or infant (since they all vary) and what they’re saying is 60% of your body that isn’t fat is water so fat isn’t really even accounted for. So someone very lean or very fat will be nowhere close to 60% water and they don’t literally mean it’s 60% of your weight. Essentially to have the 60% hold true you need to be the “average” height, weight, fat %, and muscle build. Your lungs and bones are quite watery and they also must be “average.” Again idk why or when this started being taken as gospel or when it started to become associated with weight. If the above scenario was met then you could say 60% of his weight, excluding weight of fat, is water. The second you start to vary from that incredibly rare ideal that percentage will change substantially.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

The 60% of you body as water is using an average body type for a man, woman, or infant (since they all vary) and what they’re saying is 60% of your body that isn’t fat is water so fat isn’t really even accounted for. So someone very lean or very fat will be nowhere close to 60% water and they don’t literally mean it’s 60% of your weight. Essentially to have the 60% hold true you need to be the “average” height, weight, fat %, and muscle build. Your lungs and bones are quite watery and they also must be “average.” Again idk why or when this started being taken as gospel or when it started to become associated with weight. If the above scenario was met then you could say 60% of his weight, excluding weight of fat, is water. The second you start to vary from that incredibly rare ideal that percentage will change substantially.

If they don't literally mean water weight is 60% of your weight, what do they mean? I always thought it was water on a weight/weight basis. What else could they mean, volume? That seems strange.

A little more research shows that the range of all humans is 50-75% and the range for adults is 50-65%, but the average adult is 57-60%. It appears to have much more to do with age and sex (babies have much more water, 75-78%) than it does body type.

Be that as it may, let's look at our 165 pound wrestler, and these new ranges that I've found.

Weight, Percent Water, Pounds Water
165, 50, 82.5
200, 50, 100
165, 75, 123.75
200, 75, 150

So, if a particular wrestler is well below average in water weight, at 50%, by adding 35 pounds of weight, 17.5 pounds of that is going to be water. If the same wrestler is abnormally high for water weight, at 75%, he will gain 26.25 pounds of water weight.

So, a wrestler gaining 24 pounds of water weight, by putting on 35 total pounds is certainly not unrealistic, is it? And, it certainly shouldn't be the stupidest thing you've ever heard, should it?

 

[nitlion6]

Those guys moved up 1 college weight class per year. Roughly 8 pounds per year. We’re talking 27 pounds of lean muscle in 1 year for DT. I’m pulling for you; I really am.

If you believe Taylor put 27 pounds of lean muscle on in a year, you're talking prior to a synapse is firing.
Taylor put weight on and did so while lifting hard, but the comparison of muscle make up of Taylor's body when he initially added the weight compared to now is an apples and oranges thing.
Taylor has transformed his physique through serious nutrition and unbelievablly intense S&C training. That statement is a given, and if you workout anywhere near to your claims you know it to be true and objective. There is a possibility Taylor has goosed his results with the help of the pharmaceutical industry, but you have zero idea if there is any truth to your claim that he has. Yet it is obvious it makes you feel better to belittle his success by reiterating a claim of wrong doing, despite your absolute isolation from the truth.

 

[In Kirk I Trust]

If they don't literally mean water weight is 60% of your weight, what do they mean? I always thought it was water on a weight/weight basis. What else could they mean, volume? That seems strange.

A little more research shows that the range of all humans is 50-75% and the range for adults is 50-65%, but the average adult is 57-60%. It appears to have much more to do with age and sex (babies have much more water, 75-78%) than it does body type.

Be that as it may, let's look at our 165 pound wrestler, and these new ranges that I've found.

Weight, Percent Water, Pounds Water
165, 50, 82.5
200, 50, 100
165, 75, 123.75
200, 75, 150

So, if a particular wrestler is well below average in water weight, at 50%, by adding 35 pounds of weight, 17.5 pounds of that is going to be water. If the same wrestler is abnormally high for water weight, at 75%, he will gain 26.25 pounds of water weight.

So, a wrestler gaining 24 pounds of water weight, by putting on 35 total pounds is certainly not unrealistic, is it? And, it certainly shouldn't be the stupidest thing you've ever heard, should it?

I don’t surround myself with stupid people so it isn’t surprising it’s one of the dumber things I’ve read/heard.
Again, those ranges you’re talking about aren’t a percentage/weight they’re just a percentage of your body that is water. It includes things like ~31% of your bones being water and ~80 of your lungs being water. You aren’t gaining and losing this as “weight” it is what it is. You can’t pack on 20 lbs and then add some water weight to your freaking bones or lungs lol. There’s records of some really fat dude being like 15% water lol. It’s incredibly variable and is not a hard and fast rule. This kind of crap needs to stop being put out to the public like the autistic stuff from the MMR or pertussis vaccine, whichever it was. The scenince was trash but the public obviously didn’t bother to research it themselves or even realize the guy retracted everything he said because the scientific community grilled his ass. Just because it’s “widely accepted” in the public sphere doesn’t mean it’s true and should be regarded as the case pertaining to every individual or even the majority.

 

[In Kirk I Trust]

This is what the off-season looks like ladies and gentlemen. Going to be a long 7 months.

Hey man if you weren’t entertained by the dude that was freaking out on me before idk what to tell you. That was hilarious that he was that triggered.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

I don’t surround myself with stupid people so it isn’t surprising it’s one of the dumber things I’ve read/heard.
Again, those ranges you’re talking about aren’t a percentage/weight they’re just a percentage of your body that is water. It includes things like ~31% of your bones being water and ~80 of your lungs being water. You aren’t gaining and losing this as “weight” it is what it is. You can’t pack on 20 lbs and then add some water weight to your freaking bones or lungs lol. There’s records of some really fat dude being like 15% water lol. It’s incredibly variable and is not a hard and fast rule. This kind of crap needs to stop being put out to the public like the autistic stuff from the MMR or pertussis vaccine, whichever it was. The scenince was trash but the public obviously didn’t bother to research it themselves or even realize the guy retracted everything he said because the scientific community grilled his ass. Just because it’s “widely accepted” in the public sphere doesn’t mean it’s true and should be regarded as the case pertaining to every individual or even the majority.

"...they're just a percentage of your body that is water?" A percentage has to be weight/weight, volume/volume. It isn't something that just "is." You've got to explain this more. I'm pretty sure it is (water weight)/(total weight)*100.

Muscles are about 79% water, according to the H.H. Mitchell in the Journal of Biological Chemistry. So, if a guy packs on 35 pounds of nothing but muscle, he is actually adding 27.65 pounds of water and 7.35 pounds of fiber and whatever else muscle is made of. The muscle is going to have about the same percentage of water in it before and after the mass is added.

 

[Former112]

Cael never won against Brands during the 6 or 7 years he was ass’t coach or head coach at ISU, but then after taking PSU job, Cael miraculously started “out coaching” everyone.

Got it.

4th place

 

[In Kirk I Trust]

"...they're just a percentage of your body that is water?" A percentage has to be weight/weight, volume/volume. It isn't something that just "is." You've got to explain this more. I'm pretty sure it is (water weight)/(total weight)*100.

Muscles are about 79% water, according to the H.H. Mitchell in the Journal of Biological Chemistry. So, if a guy packs on 35 pounds of nothing but muscle, he is actually adding 27.65 pounds of water and 7.35 pounds of fiber and whatever else muscle is made of. The muscle is going to have about the same percentage of water in it before and after the mass is added.

It isn’t just a 1:1 sort of deal. As soon as you introduce variation from their ideal where they derived 60% you are either moving higher or lower than it. You can’t apply an ever present 60% to something that will change from that number the second you introduce change.
A percentage is a proportion ie you have 100% of a body and 60% of it is water. It doesn’t have to be a factor of weight and you’ll know when it is because the measurement will be % of water BY WEIGHT which isn’t what anyone is talking about here. Btw I have no idea how arbitrary any of this is but I’m going to go ahead and assume very. If I take a length of muscle and call that 1 muscle and then break it into components and 0.73 of it is water I have 73% water in my muscle. Is it a foot of muscle? A pound? An inch? You have a pizza cut into 10 pieces I take a slice so I’ve taken 10% of your pizza. Nothing to do with weight...

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

Doctors abound in this mofo.

 

[armbartilt]

Wannabe Doctors abound in this mofo.

FIFY

 

[In Kirk I Trust]

FIFY

Hey!!!! You’re back! Any more knowledge bombs to drop on us big guy? Besides that clever zinger again. You’re so funny. I actually never wanted to be an MD FYI I wanted to go into dentistry before deciding on going for my PhD. Still, you’re so funny and smart! Do they have like a food stamps for internet these days? I’m sure I’m speaking to an expert.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

It isn’t just a 1:1 sort of deal. As soon as you introduce variation from their ideal where they derived 60% you are either moving higher or lower than it. You can’t apply an ever present 60% to something that will change from that number the second you introduce change.
A percentage is a proportion ie you have 100% of a body and 60% of it is water. It doesn’t have to be a factor of weight and you’ll know when it is because the measurement will be % of water BY WEIGHT which isn’t what anyone is talking about here. Btw I have no idea how arbitrary any of this is but I’m going to go ahead and assume very. If I take a length of muscle and call that 1 muscle and then break it into components and 0.73 of it is water I have 73% water in my muscle. Is it a foot of muscle? A pound? An inch? You have a pizza cut into 10 pieces I take a slice so I’ve taken 10% of your pizza. Nothing to do with weight...

So, if we aren't talking about a proportion by weight, what exactly are we talking about here? It's the only thing that makes sense.

As far as your muscle thing, you need to decide what units you are using, before you can determine there is 73% water in it. Since you can't measure water by the inch, in this case, because you're not talking about length, then weight or volume are the only things that make sense.

 

[In Kirk I Trust]

So, if we aren't talking about a proportion by weight, what exactly are we talking about here? It's the only thing that makes sense.

As far as your muscle thing, you need to decide what units you are using, before you can determine there is 73% water in it. Since you can't measure water by the inch, in this case, because you're not talking about length, then weight or volume are the only things that make sense.

I think now you’re seeing the same predicament I am, unless they are outright stating this stuff it’s all so arbitrary. I’m not entirely sure, to be honest with you, how they arrived at what they did. My guess would be volume, if it’s weight then I’ve been wrong about everything I’ve said but I’m not buying it lol. I’ve seen where people talk about this stuff but it’s always stated percentage of water BY WEIGHT or just percentage and we’re left to assume weight. When measure by weight it’s never anywhere near 60. I’ll see if I can dig that up. Fun back and forth though I love talking about this kind of stuff.

 

[armbartilt]

Hey!!!! You’re back! Any more knowledge bombs to drop on us big guy? Besides that clever zinger again. You’re so funny. I actually never wanted to be an MD FYI want to go into dentistry before going for my PhD. Still, you’re so funny and smart! Do they have like a food stamps for internet these days? I’m sure I’m speaking to an expert.

TMI....dont really care.....and you called me triggered? ??huh?? Didnt mean to hurt your snowflake feeling soy boy. Now tell me like it is lol

 

[In Kirk I Trust]

TMI....dont really care.....and you called me triggered? ??huh?? Didnt mean to hurt your snowflake feeling soy boy. Now tell me like it is lol

Hahahahahahaha! You’re pure gold, never change. So obviously triggered look at you calling names! Such a tough guy along with being smart and funny. Let me just say I’m terrified of you please stop quoting me. Scared shitless. FYI your ellipses are being used improperly but I’m sure you know that. And what ellipses are.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

I think now you’re seeing the same predicament I am, unless they are outright stating this stuff it’s all so arbitrary. I’m not entirely sure, to be honest with you, how they arrived at what they did. My guess would be volume, if it’s weight then I’ve been wrong about everything I’ve said but I’m not buying it lol. I’ve seen where people talk about this stuff but it’s always stated percentage of water BY WEIGHT or just percentage and we’re left to assume weight. When measure by weight it’s never anywhere near 60. I’ll see if I can dig that up. Fun back and forth though I love talking about this kind of stuff.

You might want to check out H.H. Mitchell in the Journal of Biological Chemistry, February 15, 1945. Everything in there is by weight. The body that he dissected and then dried all of the components was 67% water by weight, and the muscle was 79.5% water by weight.

 

[In Kirk I Trust]

You might want to check out H.H. Mitchell in the Journal of Biological Chemistry, February 15, 1945. Everything in there is by weight. The body that he dissected and then dried all of the components was 67% water by weight, and the muscle was 79.5% water by weight.

I will, thanks for the reference. No sarcasm either, that seems sarcastic.

 

[2td3nf6fall]

Cael never won against Brands during the 6 or 7 years he was ass’t coach or head coach at ISU, but then after taking PSU job, Cael miraculously started “out coaching” everyone.

Got it.

Actually Cael's teams as an assistant finished ahead of Tom's teams when he was at VT and one year when he was at Iowa.

Cael as an assistant, Brands as assistant (Iowa) and HC at VT
2003/2004 ISU (6th) Iowa (2nd)
2004/2005 ISU (10th) Virginia Tech (42nd)
2005/2006 ISU (13th) Virginia Tech (29th)

Cael and Tom as head coaches
2006/2007 ISU (2nd) Iowa (8th)
2007/2008 ISU (5th) Iowa (1st)
2008/2009 ISU (3rd) Iowa (1st)

In 16 years of Cael's coaching career he has finished behind Brands only 5 times (2004,2008,2009,2010,2015).