It's good to be close to 50%, but it's not enough points for this particular team. Plus, I can't find their 2 pt shooting % for B1G games only. I'm sure it's out there, but lazy.
Perkins is 2-10 from the field over the last 2 games
- Thread starter Franisdaman
- Start date
Agreed, at this point can we call JBO's a rough patch anymore, I think he is what he is now. That's what I think so many fans of his don't realize is he is no longer the same player thus doesn't deserver the minutes. I would rather see Kris, Tony, Ulis, Sandfort start sucking those up.
For Jbo to be effective he needs to be moving off the ball like a man poesessed. He can't do that when playing 20+ minutes. Reduce his minutes, bring him in when to counter correct lineups by other teams. I know asking Fran to be a situational vs schematic coach is pissing in the wind.
Perkins is also taking some bad shots which isn't helping him
I’m guessing Fran isn’t going to bring him off the bench, seeing that he had to “sell” him on coming back. Idk he should definitely be coming off the bench he’d be a lethal sixth man.
Could be he’s trying to force things because he’s getting limited minutes so he’s trying to make the most of his chances.
Whereas JBo can play 29 minutes even though he’s taken one shot in the first 26, can’t get open, and is somehow uncharacteristically 3-6 from the FT line, because he’s been here 5 years and holds records, and Fran loves him and he often coaches with his heart. It appears If they are both struggling Fran will choose JBo instead of giving a chance for Perkins to dig deep to try and help claw us back into a game with his ceiling being much higher overall as a player. Annoying to say the least
Both Tony and Ahron were vying for their state's POY. It surely wasn't based singularly on their defensive abilities. Personally I think both of them ought to be looking to shoot more when the opportunity presents itself. What is the old saying (or did I just make this up?), "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
For some reason both appeared to be pressing too much in the WI game. But then Iowa as a team was, IMHO. The offense was stagnant, little movement after the first 5 seconds, not enough cutting to the lane. I think this is mainly because WI gets away with a lot of grabbing and pushing (surprise!) that isn't called unless the opponent forces the issue. Iowa just got passive. They aren't going to beat WI or many B1G teams if they settle for that.
That’s something the coach after 12 seasons should make his guys aware of. He knows exactly how Wiscy is gonna play D, and if we are getting passive not selling fouls that’s simply on being checked out and ill preparation. I’m guessing we were going with the ol “if we score a ton of points as fast as we can it’ll be harder for them to beat us” Fran concept on offense.
I doubt it. The same team played damn good team ball at Purdue. I think some of these guys just get in a rut. PMac, for all of his faults, seems to get it. So does Keegan. But the other players, especially the pgs, seem to be content just dribbling or looking for the sure assist, so the ball stalls with them. Not good for a motion offense.
And Wisconsin's pack line defense is intended to force you into jump shots. They don't give you drives to the basket and lay ups, which is Tony's game. And Wisconsin was very effective at rebounding all of our misses.
I don’t like looking to blame offensive woes as a main contributor to us losing games or slumping. If we are playing good defense, rebounding and holding teams to under 70PPG, or at least 2/3 of those things, then I will look at the offense as being an issue if we are shooting like 4/26 from 3 or something and lose by like 10.
The fact is, the only thing we should be really focused on is improving our defense. Defense turns into easy offense, and therefore wins. We are playing dog shit defense, we aren’t holding teams to under 70, and we aren’t rebounding in conference. We are missing all 3. We are playing decent offense, even with some guys slumping. Sooner our head coach realizes the best two way players need to be getting the most time on the floor, the better. Connor, Patrick and Jordan aren’t that. Fran doesn’t give a shit about defense in relation to offense production. We will continue to see the same insanity game after game. My opinion, tell me I’m wrong. Guys will slump on O, but when we play good defense we win. Simple
The fact is, the only thing we should be really focused on is improving our defense. Defense turns into easy offense, and therefore wins. We are playing dog shit defense, we aren’t holding teams to under 70, and we aren’t rebounding in conference. We are missing all 3. We are playing decent offense, even with some guys slumping. Sooner our head coach realizes the best two way players need to be getting the most time on the floor, the better. Connor, Patrick and Jordan aren’t that. Fran doesn’t give a shit about defense in relation to offense production. We will continue to see the same insanity game after game. My opinion, tell me I’m wrong. Guys will slump on O, but when we play good defense we win. Simple
So, you agree with me. 3 bad years (what you typed above) plus this year equals at least 4 bad years.
But, again, you originally said there was only 1 year (this year) out of the 12 where rebounding has been a consistent problem. You were flat out wrong.
You said, and I quote, "I don’t think rebounding has been a problem for Fran‘s teams. This is the first year I can recall it being a consistent problem."
Anyone watching the games over the last 12 years knows that this is not the first year where rebounding has been a consistent problem, which is what you alleged. The rebounding margins I posted over the 12 years also show that rebounding has been a consistent problem.
But thanks for making my argument for me in your response. Rebounding, obviously, has been a consistent problem.
He seems to obsess a great deal, eh? Kind of like a pissed off wife.
Connor in 241 minutes has a whopping 17 points. Perkins in 265 minutes has 117 points. Kris in 239 minutes has 131 points. Just for kicks, Ash in 53 minutes has 31 points. Josh in 46 minutes has 15 points and Mulvey with 58 minutes has scored 14 points.
You can draw your own conclusions.
My conclusion is playing times are not correlated with points but instead intangibles.
The 1-3 B1G record, poor rebounding and poor defense are more of a tangible issue.
The issue most people have is that if you are equating playing time to intangibles, then that is a fool's errand. By that standard, no one could ever question the coach about who is playing. The season is not lost, but the Big 10 is a tough league to get right in.
To the original post, Perkins shooting over 40% from 3-point range all year was not really ever sustainable. He brings things (tangible) to the team that others do not. He is fast and physical, and can defend. Low turnover % and second-best steal % on the team behind Toussaint. And gets to the line, making 90% of free throws. He's not a good/great shooter. He's hit a rut. Will likely bounce back if he can get a game where he gets a couple of layups/dunks to boost the confidence.
I've defended Connor and still believe he adds value to the team. The issue is really how he fits with the current team. In previous years we didn't need scoring so his intangibles had some real value because they help the rest of the guys (multiple scorers). Now we're down to one consistent scorer (Keegan), and so rather than intangibles, we need consistent scoring and rebounding. I'm not sure where the scoring is going to come from, but there are a couple of guys (who can't seem to get off the bench) that could help with rebounding.
But Connor's been injured! Oh, that's right, that excuse is only valid for Perkins & players who don't have the last name McCaffery or Bohannon.
And bringing up Ash, Riley and Josh, whose minutes have mostly been in garbage time, against the other team's worst players, hurts your argument.
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2-10 is a ridiculously SSS….
I would suggest you cant make any long term insight on this microscopic sample size
I would suggest you cant make any long term insight on this microscopic sample size
I've defended Connor and don't blame him for anything, but the argument could be made that if he's injured to the point he can't produce, then he really shouldn't be playing.
If a player is cleared to play, then Fran will play them.
Fran seems to always be criticized when it comes to who starts and the minutes distribution. Connor no longer starts but that is not good enough; his minutes need to be slashed! LOL
In the Maryland game, Fran stuck with a 9 man rotation, which is what people seem to want on here. But, of course, Connor s playing too much!
Min/Player
10 Kris
14 Tony
15 Ulis
18 Connor
Payton, the 10th player who played in the Maryland game, played just 2 minutes.
There's an assumption that if a guy is dressed he's cleared to play. But just because you're dressed, that doesn't mean you play. Fran should be playing people based on their skill set and how productive they are. I too don't like all the negative about Connor. It's not his fault if he plays, I'd play too.
I'd suggest that people stop trying to determine who shouldn't play but rather who deserves to play. That will determine who doesn't play without say x shouldn't be playing. The problem we have right now is, other than Keegan there really isn't a clear picture of who should play. I wish there was more separation between the players but there really isn't. They're all good at certain things on certain days. There seems to be one guy that could use more playing time and that's Kris. The problem is that he comes in when Filip goes out. That creates a problem because we don't have the rebounding we need. Somehow we need to get Kris, Keegan, and Filip (or one of the centers) on the court at the same time (for longer than just a few minutes). But with the way people are being rotated, it's just not going to happen much.
Playing time based on what a player is bringing is going to vary depending on what someone considers important.
As much as I like to see the team's scoring average around 77 or so per game, I would absolutely prioritize defense and rebounding for at least 2 of the 5 spots on the court. With that in mind, at least one of the better options is to give more of the minutes at the 2 spot to Perkins and less to Bohannon. The net benefit of having Tony's ability to play D and rebound is of more value. And, he's still a possible threat to shoot or drive. Additionally, more of Connor's minutes to Kris would be a net positive even if Kris has an underwhelming scoring game.
My expectations are that neither will happen.
As much as I like to see the team's scoring average around 77 or so per game, I would absolutely prioritize defense and rebounding for at least 2 of the 5 spots on the court. With that in mind, at least one of the better options is to give more of the minutes at the 2 spot to Perkins and less to Bohannon. The net benefit of having Tony's ability to play D and rebound is of more value. And, he's still a possible threat to shoot or drive. Additionally, more of Connor's minutes to Kris would be a net positive even if Kris has an underwhelming scoring game.
My expectations are that neither will happen.
I am not making light of anyone's injuries, but you are making a ridiculous assertion--that somehow a healthy Connor suddenly can shoot. Perkins shooting poorly over a couple games is quite a bit different than Connor shooting poorly for his career.
Agree. The intangibles like tweeting about poor officiating after you get run out of Madison and foul out with 1 point are vastly underrated. You can't measure the value these types of contributions add and come March, every team needs them (because they will be tweeting not playing).
But you are attempting to use one abberation of an example that isn't consistent with what TP generally does on the court and create a whole narrative out of it.
The narrative that Perkins is a poor defender is blatantly false. Its simply not real life.
So its not comparable to JBO.
His shooting percentage is not comparable to Connors.
If he continues to shoot this poorly for another two years then you can make the comparison.
Opponents are not going to stop defending Perkins any time soon like they do Connor. Thats another non reality.
It took years of not wanting to shoot for that to happen to Connor.
Let's be clear about what my assertions were.
Why did you falsely claim that I said anything about Connor's shooting abilities?
I did, however, point out the double standards, where Tony gets a pass for supposedly being hurt but Connor does not.
And I also pointed out that Connor does not start, Fran basically used a 9 man rotation in the Maryland game, and Connor played 18 minutes as part of that 9 man rotation. But I guess 18 minutes is still too many according to the experts on here.
And SB_SB nailed it when he wrote above that the problem we have right now is, other than Keegan, there really isn't a clear picture of who should play. He also noted that there was not much separation between the players.
So, maybe, just maybe, Fran knows what he's doing.
Why did you falsely state that I am claiming Tony is a poor defender?
* What I did point out was his inconsistency on defense. Nobody, not even Fatts Russell, should be blowing by Tony with ease.
Why did you falsely state that I claimed opponents would stop defending Tony?
* What I did point out was that opponents like Wisconsin will take away the dribble drive and force Tony into jump shots. And Wisconsin's plan worked. When Tony did put up a shot, he missed all of them (he was 0-4).
So, if you are going to post, could you at least be truthful? Is that too much to ask?
Here we go again with the mysterious Connor injuries that don't keep him off the court, but are used an evergreen excuse for his lack of productivity. A healthy Connor, if there is such a thing, is still a terrible shooter and non-factor on offense. He has proven that out over time with his net scorching 20% from 3, 60% from the line and maybe 25% from the field. You can hide a guy like Connor on a loaded team or get value if he does something really well--neither is applicable here.
Your last comment is laughable. The lack of clarity around who should play is not a testament to Fran knowing what he is doing. It's a testament to his poor recruiting, lack of player development and bungling of the portal. It's one thing to have a tough decision on who to start when two guys are playing well, but this is far from that. Outside of Keegan, you could put the other names in a a hat to determine the other 4 spots and it wouldn't have a material impact on the results. No PG leader again. No answer for tight man D. Jbo can't get a shot off and collectively the team cannot rebound.
Fran doesn't have better lineup options because there aren't any.
I think 18 minutes is probably 18 too many.
the metrics indicate that Connor is easily the worst player on the playing roster, all games and conf games. The sad thing is it’s not even close, Conner is the guy 2 standard deviations from the mean
no amount of ‘on court presence’ can make up for essentially playing George Costanza for even a few minutes / game.
Why are you making stuff up? I am not making excuses for Connor; I am simply saying excuses shouldn't be made for anyone.
Who is making stuff up? I have been pretty blunt about Connor's anemic offense and the numbers are what they are. Go look at the stats and tell me what I missed. Perkins had two bad shooting games. Connor has had a bad shooting career. Big difference.
You wrote, and I quote: Here we go again with the mysterious Connor injuries that don't keep him off the court, but are used an evergreen excuse for his lack of productivity.
And I replied that you are you making stuff up because I am not making excuses for Connor; I am simply saying excuses shouldn't be made for anyone. Nevertheless, excuses are being made for Tony as everyone rips Connor to shreds. The double standards on here are incredible.
The first time I saw Connor play was when he was a high school senior in the tournament. I remember thinking his shot was too flat and questioning why he was considered a 4 star recruit. All these years later, I can only conclude that he will never be a good shooter. I believe he should be playing much less than he has been. Tony is a better option notwithstanding his recent slump.
