They lost to Drake. A team vastly less talented than Iowa. Iowa was a shell of themselves on defense compared to big ten tourney. So while offenses was worst, offense can come and go, defensive effectiveness shouldn’t be so inconsistent…
Perspective
- Thread starter NCHawkeye24
- Start date
I don't know how I came across that the tourney doesn't mean anything. My whole point is that it doesn't mean everything.
As far as your points. I think Richmond was good at playing their type of game. They got to play their game and they won.
About recruiting. Why someone wouldn't want to play for Fran, in this offense with this kind of exposure is mind-boggling. A great player is concerned about getting the opportunities to shine and every great player will think that they will be the ones to change the narrative. I promise there is no recruit that says, wow, I love Frans system but he can't get to the sweet 16 so I am going to go to Kentucky.
You can't say Richmond was bad. They have some nice players in Gilyard who was light years better than anyone Iowa has playing guard and Burton who is a fine forward. Their coach had a winning game plan and his team ready. They conceded the defensive rebounds in order to stop Iowa's transition offense, ran Jbo off the 3 line, and forced others to make shots which they didn't. Iowa shoots even a decent percentage they win by 10. Didn't happen.
So maybe the lesson is that it has been how long since we were last in a sweet 16? That is based on an approach like you are suggesting....we fired that coach and where did that get us? We haven't done it quite as aggressively as Nebraska football, but never fear they will eventually turn it around.
That's a gross exaggeration. Some posters seem to be losing their ability to apply a little reason or even a minimum amount of perspective.
Can you rephrase this or edit it, I'm not sure exactly what you are saying.
Iowa has the longest tenured football coach and one of the longest basketball coaches in the NCAA, to bring Nebraska into the conversation is disingenuous.
You mean CJ Fredrick? I thought he came to Iowa and then transferred to Kentucky, which means he came to Iowa to play in Fran's system. Thank you for making my point.
#7 - to determine the National Champion of Div 1 basketball no less.
I'll askthis again, who's Mom is OP?
And then decided iowa wasn't capable of greatness and went to the exact school you mentioned because of the history of the program.
Thought you wanted to have that Alford vs Fran convo. 2/8 > 1/13.
Would it make you feel better if I took Fran off the "great" line and put him in the "very good" line?
I am too young to remember O'Connor and Miller. Olson I remember and unfortunately I think one of the reasons he left is because of the same people that are replying to this post. But that is sidenote.
Now Davis. I loved Dr Tom, and I looked at him then and now as a very good coach and I think it is a push with Fran. Dr Tom made one sweet 16 with his own players and his B1G record is on par to what Fran is doing now. I don't think it is really fair to compare coaches until they get deeper into their recruiting cycles, and in this case Davis was handed the keys to a Ferrari and Fran was handed the keys to a used Yugo.
I think Fran is still building his program and is still ascending which is why I don't think there is any reason to replace him.
1. I am not calling for Fran to be fired. Nowhere have I suggested this in any of my posts yesterday or today. Why would I? He isn’t going anywhere.
2. Stop with the “who are you going to get that’s better” nonsense. Just stop. Iowa fans have become so scared of another Lickliter, they are unwilling to even TRY for something better. Of course there are no guarantees of getting a better coach. There is also no guarantee he would be worse.
3. Do I know for a FACT Fran won’t make a Sweet 16 in the next couple of years? No. Do you know for a FACT that he will? At least I have a long track record to base my opinion on (26 years as a head coach and zero Sweet 16s). You only have “hope.”
Again…..I am not calling for Fran to be fired. But he’s been here for 12 years and a head coach for 26. If he can’t get a Sweet 16 as #2 and #5 seeds, rosters of national player(s) of the year, and nba players…..I’m not sure he ever will.
Im not asking for greatness. Getting past the round of 32 once in 12 seasons isn’t greatness, actually far from it. It’s unbelievable the scar tissue that Lickliter has left behind, especially since it’s been 12 YEARS since he left! I don’t get this fear of something different. We’ve had 12 seasons of evidence that Fran hasn’t gotten us past the second round in the tourney, and IMO never will. If he were at pretty much any other power5 school he probably doesn’t survive this long.
He’s got us back to relevancy which is awesome. And Im not going to say he’s a bad coach. But the season is played with the goal of postseason success and we’ve never had any of that under him. For some reason he doesn’t seem to be able to get his teams over that hump. Players didn’t shoot well yesterday and that lost us the game, but if Fran is to get credit for the success we had this year then he gets to shoulder the blame for how that played out yesterday.
IMO, he’s had just enough success to keep us interested and keep his job.
Regardless, this is all just a waste of time, Fran is likely retiring at Iowa and if not, he’s leaving on his own accord. Fingers crossed he can find a way to get us past the first weekend b4 he’s done here.
And you know that? That he transferred because he would rather sit on the bench at Kentucky to make a sweet 16 than to lose at Iowa? The way I see it if he did that he lost that bet. Hell, he didn't even win a conference tournament. Truth is nobody knows all the reasons why he left.
I don't understand the 2/8 > 1/13. What are you referring to?
12 years in and still building his program is the most university of Iowa athletics program thing I have ever heard.
Notice that caveat you gave Dr. TOM? "WITH HIS PLAYERS" that's a casual way of minimizing his actual accomplishments.
Because if you told people the outcome in that scenario, most people say **** that.
You picked an exact school that we had a guy do the exact thing your referenced. Him "losing" was something that was an option but he did exactly what you said no one would do.
Fran vs Alford. One has 1 b10t championship in 13 years the other had 2 in 8.
Why does it have to be a player's mom? Is that because you think that in order to get your "genuine Iowa Hawkeye fan card" you have to bitchy crybaby that only bases their success or failure of a team on whether they win it all or not? Wow, if so, I guess I am not in your club.
Welcome to life dude. All things end badly. If they didn't, then they wouldn't end. It is a good thing we don't know the outcome otherwise all of us would say **** that before we began.
You mentioned early you have been involved in competition for a majority of your life. I am really starting to question that or what you are calling competition. I was a college athlete and can tell you sure as shit the "fun" of the game is winning and losing and knowing people paid money to come watch you perform. That's what makes it great, your talent is now worth peoples money. You can watch fun games at the ymca for free.
Very simple....firing coaches often doesn't result in success (Nebraska). The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence! Fran has represented the university very well in both results and the student athletes that he turns out.
We can all, including coaches and players, be disappointed that we don't achieve at a higher level.....but that doesn't mean that we should start firing coaches or believing the coaches we have can't improve.
The fact that you can't answer, and don't have an answer for, "Who are you going to get for a new coach" doesn't make your position valid that it isn't a legit question.....fact.
I appreciate what you are saying, and am not in the fire Fran camp, but I do think we hold on to coaches wayyyyyy to long under the guise of "not wanting another lickliter" or "returning to the 70s" foe football. We could hire and fire a guy every 2 years foe the next decade in football and still be around average over a 35 year span.
You have no idea why he transferred and transferring had nothing to do with my point. He still came here to begin with.
Alford had 3 winning seasons in the B1G out of 8, 3 NCAA tourneys out of 8, 2 B1G tourney titles out of 8. Lots of drama, not a well liked coach, not a good guy. 0 All-Americans.
Fran has had 6 winning seasons and 3 .500 seasons out of 12, made 7 NCAA's out of 12, 1 B1G tourney title in 12. 3 All-Americans. Clean program, good kids, well liked, good guy.
Neither made it to the sweet 16. Alford made it to the second round in the NCAA 1 out of 8, Fran has done it 4 out of 12.
Your pick of Alford over Fran ridiculous. You must have some romantic memories that have confused your reality.
All those things you just described, slightly better big 10 record, slightly better ncaa record, don't mean shit. One guy put 2 trophies in the case in 8 years and one guy has done it once in 13.
No Fran is not a great coach. He is an average to above average coach.
The fact that fans still want to settle for that after year 12 at a major P5 school with resources is beyond me.
The fact that fans still want to settle for that after year 12 at a major P5 school with resources is beyond me.
The fact that you don't like the answer doesn't make it a stupid question. In fact, it is a VERY VERY important question when it comes to making the decision to replace a coach...or not. Bob Bowlsby "thought" he had a home run hire in Alford....and I believe that was a big part of his calculation to push Dr. Tom out.....mistake.
Devries would be a great hire but I will take anyone that’s willing to coach defense. Texas tach was up almost 30 before half and gave a good look before half and their coaches were all over a guy for giving that play up.
most good defensive coaches would vomit watching Iowa play defense on film.
I appreciate Dr. Tom more and more as time goes by. Yeah he inherited a lot of talent, but he also got them to the second weekend a couple times. Then with his own recruits, he got a Sweet 16 and I feel comfortable saying the 1992-93 team would've been a second weekend team as well, with Street. This is more than his successors have done.
I'm tired of people talking about Lickliter as it relates to Fran. Lick is beyond irrelevant now - he's been gone for 12+ years and high school kids we're recruiting now surely don't even remember Iowa under Lickliter. Those 3 years were a blip on the radar. Just a bad dream that I've all but forgotten. This is Fran's program now and has been for some time.
I'm not laying this whole Sweet 16 drought entirely at Fran's feet, though. The slate of coaches we've had since Davis have collectively failed to do this. This is on Alford, Lickliter and Fran. All of them.
Has he taken a team to the Sweet 16? Has he won a conference championship at a conference the level of the B10?....the answer of course is NO. Therefore there is no guarantee that he could.
Honestly, if we did lose Fran....I would be very excited about DeVries. I think he "could" be a great hire. The point is, there is no guarantee. The UNI coach is an example...he has done well in that conference and has taken a team to the Sweet 16....but, he has not been hired away.
I like DeVries....but of course, there is no guarantee he would succeed at the level we want/hope.
