Plus/Minus in Conference Play
- Thread starter Franisdaman
- Start date
He has had a solid return to form; however, the early criticism of his Big 10 play was warranted.
This really is impressive when considering all in the 9 man rotation are in the positive. I wonder how other teams rotations compare in conference play.
You look at those Michigan numbers and think we should've lost by 20
You must have missed Perkins FWIW.
| CONFERENCE | PUR | IL | MD | WIS | IND | MN | RUT | PSU | PUR | PSU | MN | MD | NEB | MI | OSU | MSU | TOTAL +/- | |
| Jordan Bohannon | -13 | -15 | 4 | -3 | 4 | 9 | 5 | 24 | -6 | -5 | 15 | 30 | 29 | -8 | 12 | 10 | 92 | |
| Keegan Murray | 0 | -11 | 10 | -17 | 11 | 6 | -4 | 17 | -5 | -14 | 13 | 30 | 31 | -12 | 11 | 26 | 92 | |
| Kris Murray | -5 | 5 | -9 | 7 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 9 | 1 | 1 | 16 | 2 | 13 | -2 | 23 | 22 | 92 | |
| Joe Toussaint | 10 | -11 | 10 | -13 | 8 | 6 | 4 | 22 | -7 | -6 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 11 | 27 | 68 | |
| Connor McCaffery | -3 | 4 | -2 | 2 | 8 | 0 | -7 | -3 | -4 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 15 | 12 | 15 | 10 | 52 | |
| Payton Sandfort | 0 | 7 | -5 | -3 | -6 | -1 | 0 | 0 | -3 | 10 | 4 | 8 | 16 | 7 | -2 | 19 | 51 | |
| Patrick McCaffery | -6 | -10 | 7 | -8 | 1 | 11 | 5 | 21 | -4 | 1 | 7 | 26 | 10 | -13 | -1 | 2 | 49 | |
| Filip Rebraca | 9 | -1 | 13 | -11 | 20 | 8 | -2 | 8 | -10 | -11 | -1 | 21 | 8 | -5 | -6 | 5 | 45 | |
| Ahron Ulis | 4 | 9 | -5 | -8 | 7 | 1 | -6 | -6 | -3 | 2 | 14 | -3 | 0 | 2 | 5 | 16 | 29 | |
| Luc Laketa | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | -2 | 0 | 0 | -1 | -2 | |
| Riley Mulvey | -3 | 0 | 0 | 2 | -6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -4 | -2 | 0 | 0 | -1 | -14 | |
| Tony Perkins | -16 | 11 | 2 | -9 | 5 | 7 | -7 | -7 | -6 | -1 | -7 | 18 | 6 | -10 | -3 | 3 | -14 | |
| Austin Ash | 0 | 0 | 0 | 7 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -2 | 0 | -10 | -5 | -3 | 0 | -4 | -17 | |
| Josh Ogundele | -12 | -8 | 0 | 9 | -11 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -3 | 0 | 0 | -4 | -5 | 0 | 0 | -4 | -38 |
Here are numbers for just the last six games since they switched the starting lineup.
| LAST 6 GAMES | MN | MD | NEB | MI | OSU | MSU | TOTAL +/- | |
| Keegan Murray | 13 | 30 | 31 | -12 | 11 | 26 | 99 | |
| Jordan Bohannon | 15 | 30 | 29 | -8 | 12 | 10 | 88 | |
| Kris Murray | 16 | 2 | 13 | -2 | 23 | 22 | 74 | |
| Connor McCaffery | 0 | 0 | 15 | 12 | 15 | 10 | 52 | |
| Payton Sandfort | 4 | 8 | 16 | 7 | -2 | 19 | 52 | |
| Joe Toussaint | -1 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 11 | 27 | 45 | |
| Ahron Ulis | 14 | -3 | 0 | 2 | 5 | 16 | 34 | |
| Patrick McCaffery | 7 | 26 | 10 | -13 | -1 | 2 | 31 | |
| Filip Rebraca | -1 | 21 | 8 | -5 | -6 | 5 | 22 | |
| Tony Perkins | -7 | 18 | 6 | -10 | -3 | 3 | 7 | |
| Luc Laketa | 0 | 1 | -2 | 0 | 0 | -1 | -2 | |
| Riley Mulvey | 0 | -4 | -2 | 0 | 0 | -1 | -7 | |
| Josh Ogundele | 0 | -4 | -5 | 0 | 0 | -4 | -13 | |
| Austin Ash | 0 | -10 | -5 | -3 | 0 | -4 | -22 |
Pry leads the team in 2 point attempts outside the paint though
Great info Blair
If one buys into the plus/minus as an important stat
1) JBO has a negative plus/minus in 6 of the 7 B1G losses, so either JBO is the the reason why we are not competing for B1G title or Perhaps if Fran played JBO less in games he shoots poorly/or is getting abused defensively, that would lead to better results?
2) PMAC and Rebraca are the worst starters----so Fans asking for more Kris Murray playing time are correct---Kris Murray PT has to come from PMAC at the 3 and Rebraca at the 5.
3) Perkins has lost his 3pt shot for now and that limits his usefulness and JoeT should not have been benched or at least seen his PT cut back.
4) PMAC is NOT the 2nd best player on the team---Kris is---that is contrary to the Fran doesn't play favorites thesis and backs up the statistical obvious--- Kris is much more efficient shooter, rebounds better, defends better than PMAC.
5) Payton should play more
6) CMAC was a net negative up until the Penn State game when his 3pt shooting turned around and he has started to force teams to guard him. Makes sense, more PT for CMAC as long as he is making his 3-pt shots and requiring opponent to guard him.
The plus minus data backs up just about everything that complainers have complained about, except JBO is clearly valuable in games he is playing well---which are games he is shooting well, not facing an overwhelming tall/athletic and engaged defender, and not getting abused defensivley by opponent.
If one buys into the plus/minus as an important stat
1) JBO has a negative plus/minus in 6 of the 7 B1G losses, so either JBO is the the reason why we are not competing for B1G title or Perhaps if Fran played JBO less in games he shoots poorly/or is getting abused defensively, that would lead to better results?
2) PMAC and Rebraca are the worst starters----so Fans asking for more Kris Murray playing time are correct---Kris Murray PT has to come from PMAC at the 3 and Rebraca at the 5.
3) Perkins has lost his 3pt shot for now and that limits his usefulness and JoeT should not have been benched or at least seen his PT cut back.
4) PMAC is NOT the 2nd best player on the team---Kris is---that is contrary to the Fran doesn't play favorites thesis and backs up the statistical obvious--- Kris is much more efficient shooter, rebounds better, defends better than PMAC.
5) Payton should play more
6) CMAC was a net negative up until the Penn State game when his 3pt shooting turned around and he has started to force teams to guard him. Makes sense, more PT for CMAC as long as he is making his 3-pt shots and requiring opponent to guard him.
The plus minus data backs up just about everything that complainers have complained about, except JBO is clearly valuable in games he is playing well---which are games he is shooting well, not facing an overwhelming tall/athletic and engaged defender, and not getting abused defensivley by opponent.
Looks like we did very well with Nebby, even though it was at home and they are Nebby. Hopefully we can duplicate those numbers at their place. No surprises plz.
Great point! Keegan has a minus in all of those games as well. Should we lay some of the blame on him too? Maybe he should sit a bit more. Love the "number guys!"
We should lay some of the blame on Keegan, sure. Should we sit him? No. Because we don't have other players with his skillset. That's not the case with Jordan. I'm not advocating sitting Jordan necessarily. He's been playing well lately but if he gets into a slump shooting, I'd absolutely advocate for playing Kris, Sandfort, Ulis more in his place.
Except +/- isn't a great stat at an individual level.
What's your point??
That Kris should play more? We just told you that a million times and you keep arguing...??
Based on your "stats" Fran is a total moron for starting Tony I assume?
They shot like crap from 3. The one kid balled out, that's why they won
Any stat that has 2 players equal to Keegan is a joke as far as I'm concerned....
What is wrong w/you? Did you look at who at who the other 2 players tied w/him are? Oh, Kris Murray. The other guy who most people think are not getting enough minutes. And Joe T is in a very solid 4 spot as well. God you are annoying. No but's about that.
I'd just say this, Perkins seems to be struggling in his new role. I'd have no issue seeing him return to the 7th man type spot. Having said that I think Fran put Perkins there to balance the defense more out front with Jbo at the point. I think I'd give Ulis a shot at starting and have Joe T and Perkins as the backups at 1 and 2...
None of them have really done much to own the spot, that's for sure. I'd put joet back, just because I think hes more fun to watch
.Wouldn’t change a thing with this starting lineup at this point.
These stats pretty well show you they don't mean much. Of the lowest 5, 4 are all scrubs in for the last 4 or 5 minutes when the game is out of hand. Often when we have a lead and the opponents have starters still playing. So yes, our scrubs are not very good against the other starters. (I don't mean to be derogatory about the 'scrubs' term)
I didn't say anything about any player but I knew clowns like you and Factory would start spinning things according to who you want to start and play the most minutes.
Yet, I am annoying????
JFC
yes you are. You are a serial spammer. You and your alter ego like to call everyone that disagrees with you out.
+/- have little meaning. It's like paring kids up for a project, it's easy for someone to ride coattails.
and you, clearly, are a serial dumb ass who contributes nothing of value to the forum.
It's funny that you think @TheTruthTheWholeTruth and I are the same person. It's not like he and I are the only ones who make fun of you.
+ / - have little meaning, huh? I guess that's why Blair published the numbers, because they have no meaning and he wanted to waste some time. Seriously, how stupid are you?
Buddy, I make fun of you because you’re so miserable after wins. It’s always “yeah but.” Other than that, I don’t have an issue with you.
You seem knowledgeable about the sport, provide some good insights, and I don’t doubt your Hawk fandom.
Try being positive for once. Everyone has their favorites on this team. Joe T is your guy. I love him too. I watch the games with my daughter and we call him bulldog because of his defensive tenacity.
But sometimes we become myopic and don’t see the shortcomings of a player(he’s often out of control)when we so badly want them to succeed.
Kr Murray is also a contentious point with you. Everyone can see the talent. He will be THE man next year. But he still hasn’t learned to play without reaching hence the fouls. And, for some reason, the officials seem to be calling every touch foul too. So what can Fran do?
IMO Fran is handling things pretty reasonably, although there are times when it feels like he’s game watching too much.
I don’t care as much who starts as to who is finishing. Kris has been part of that group, more recently than earlier in the season. If I had my druthers my finishers would be Murray, Murray, and then the hot hands.
I’m not married to a particular lineup. Each situation dictates different lineups. Are we in scoring mode or up 10+ with 2 minutes left. Do we need to go bigger or have our ball handling unit out there? Anywho, you get my point.
Also, here’s a fun fact, me and @Franisdaman went after each pretty freaking hard in the not so distant past. We virtually shook hands and let bygones be bygones.
I will admit that I’ve been an ass to you. Some of that is your negative attitude, but most of my frustration is with the entitled mentality of the board. We all want better, S16, Final 4, conference championships etc but damn, do we really have it that bad?
Regardless I offer you the same virtual handshake today. I’ll stop pestering you and will try my best to add more substance to my comments regarding Iowa athletics.
Its not an individual stat at all.
Its the correlation between team score vs opponent score durring a players minutes.
It can be very indicative of individual performance or not all.
For instance if someone's minutes mostly conincide with Keegans that players +/- will be basically the same as his for better or worse.
Correct, if Austin Ash played the exact same minutes as Keegan their +/- would be identical.
Yep, that's why its nor particularly useful as comparison between players because it doesn't measure anything specific to any one player.
Please give us some more but but but information. You're doing a great job. Everyone is asking for it. Doesn't make you sound like a little kid or anything. Carry on. At least the truth can acknowledge what's going on. Not you.
Any stat can make a point. The +/- has to be looked at closely and used as part of the evaluation, not the whole.
I think these stats give a lot of credence to the fact that Toussaint is a very valuable player against teams with better athletes. Look at his combined numbers vs tournament teams.
It has to be near the top of the team with a lot less minutes
It has to be near the top of the team with a lot less minutes
vs teams going to NCAA or on the bubble (stronger competition) :
Not a perfect stat I know, but interesting . Bench has played very well lately
Not a perfect stat I know, but interesting . Bench has played very well lately
| CONFERENCE | PUR | IL | WIS | IND | RUT | PUR | MI | OSU | MSU | TOTAL +/- | |
| Kris Murray | -5 | 5 | 7 | 4 | 2 | 1 | -2 | 23 | 22 | 57 | |
| Connor McCaffery | -3 | 4 | 2 | 8 | -7 | -4 | 12 | 15 | 10 | 37 | |
| Joe Toussaint | 10 | -11 | -13 | 8 | 4 | -7 | 7 | 11 | 27 | 36 | |
| Ahron Ulis | 4 | 9 | -8 | 7 | -6 | -3 | 2 | 5 | 16 | 26 | |
| Payton Sandfort | 0 | 7 | -3 | -6 | 0 | -3 | 7 | -2 | 19 | 19 | |
| Austin Ash | 0 | 0 | 7 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -3 | 0 | -4 | 0 | |
| Keegan Murray | 0 | -11 | -17 | 11 | -4 | -5 | -12 | 11 | 26 | -1 | |
| Filip Rebraca | 9 | -1 | -11 | 20 | -2 | -10 | -5 | -6 | 5 | -1 | |
| Luc Laketa | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | -1 | |
| Riley Mulvey | -3 | 0 | 2 | -6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | -8 | |
| Jordan Bohannon | -13 | -15 | -3 | 4 | 5 | -6 | -8 | 12 | 10 | -14 | |
| Josh Ogundele | -12 | -8 | 9 | -11 | 0 | -3 | 0 | 0 | -4 | -29 | |
| Tony Perkins | -16 | 11 | -9 | 5 | -7 | -6 | -10 | -3 | 3 | -32 | |
| Patrick McCaffery | -6 | -10 | -8 | 1 | 5 | -4 | -13 | -1 | 2 | -34 |
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