POLL: Which Gun Control Measures Do You Support?

[What Would Jesus Do?]

There are more than a few Dem senators who are beyond hope, too.

As I volunteered in the previous post.

 

[dandh]

He‘s trying to play dumb. He knows what I’m saying.

I'm teasing you about your slip of the tongue (keyboard), because you are trying to affix blame instead of actually find a path that might work. If you stop beating your head against the wall it might actually stop hurting at some point.

 

[Gimmered]

I don't find that a convincing argument. There are lots of things that 18 year olds can't legally do, like drinking and smoking or being a cop. Military service is voluntary, and when the draft was in place it was for 19 year olds. We know that maturity doesn't fully kick in until around age 26. I think it's reasonable to limit gun ownership until you've been out of high school a few years.

This, along with there are already exceptions for those serving in the military for hand gun purchases.

 

[HawkNester]

I'm teasing you about your slip of the tongue (keyboard), because you are trying to affix blame instead of actually find a path that might work. If you stop beating your head against the wall it might actually stop hurting at some point.

I take it you’ve called all of your local, state, and federal representatives to ask for change. I take it you voted for candidates that are for gun control. I take it you work in a classroom such as myself and had to look at elementary school students who live in fear of coming to school.

 

[SalAunese]

Actually, I was referring to major horrible incidents like school shootings, the Vegas shooting, etc. Groups have done studies of "mass shootings" with definitions that conflate truly horrible incidents with gang battles. That is not helpful, imo.

Why? Gang related firearms crimes and related felonious acts should absolutely count towards the number. It’s a nationwide problem and these crimes play a huge part in the statistics.

 

[CaboKP]

So co-ed showers in dorms? That would be fun.

It could raise enrollment at universities.

 

[Urohawk]

An 18 year old can safely own a gun in the military because they receive extensive training and are subject to intense supervision.

That certainly does not translate to all 18 year olds having that same responsibility and maturity. As we continue to clearly see.

So if I'm 30 and join a gun crew I don't need training because I'm more mature? This would support training for everyone who owns a firearm. Why not require training and competency training for all gun ownership?

 

[Urohawk]

I don't find that a convincing argument. There are lots of things that 18 year olds can't legally do, like drinking and smoking or being a cop. Military service is voluntary, and when the draft was in place it was for 19 year olds. We know that maturity doesn't fully kick in until around age 26. I think it's reasonable to limit gun ownership until you've been out of high school a few years.

See I disagree. I "owned" a gun in that I had my own remington 870 that I brought to and from high school to go hunting with. Hell back in the 90s, I even took my single shot 12 gauge to high school to do a "how to" speech assignment on gun cleaning. I got teacher permission and delivered the gun to the room before school. Could you imagine that now?

I would support a ban on high capacity magazines and assault style rifles until 25. I know the "assault rifles" are mostly cosmetic and can fire the same capacity magazine as many hunting rifles but I think its the bromance with weapons that turns these guys on.

The problem is if you really support the 2nd amendment you can't allow bans on 18 year olds as that is our age of consent in this country. I personally don't think the 2nd amendment supports the right to individual gun ownership. The change in tone of the court really stems from the black panthers coming to California legislature when Reagan was governor and scaring white folks into passing gun control laws. Only until the 80s did the NRA start pushing this idea that the 2nd amendment applied to individuals right to bear arms.

 

[Gimmered]

So if I'm 30 and join a gun crew I don't need training because I'm more mature? This would support training for everyone who owns a firearm. Why not require training and competency training for all gun ownership?

Because gun ownership is a right. What other right do we require training to receive?

 

[dandh]

See I disagree. I "owned" a gun in that I had my own remington 870 that I brought to and from high school to go hunting with. Hell back in the 90s, I even took my single shot 12 gauge to high school to do a "how to" speech assignment on gun cleaning. I got teacher permission and delivered the gun to the room before school. Could you imagine that now?

I would support a ban on high capacity magazines and assault style rifles until 25. I know the "assault rifles" are mostly cosmetic and can fire the same capacity magazine as many hunting rifles but I think its the bromance with weapons that turns these guys on.

The problem is if you really support the 2nd amendment you can't allow bans on 18 year olds as that is our age of consent in this country. I personally don't think the 2nd amendment supports the right to individual gun ownership. The change in tone of the court really stems from the black panthers coming to California legislature when Reagan was governor and scaring white folks into passing gun control laws. Only until the 80s did the NRA start pushing this idea that the 2nd amendment applied to individuals right to bear arms.

No, 18 is not the "age of consent" for everything, as has been pointed out elsewhere. Some adult rights imbue at 18, others do not. Even the most conservative Supreme Court justices have not opined that second amendment rights start at age 18. Not sure why you are so hung up on that.

 

[dandh]

It could raise enrollment at universities.

Among other things raised.

 

[Urohawk]

Because gun ownership is a right. What other right do we require training to receive?

That's a counter argument to those saying you can't buy a gun until 25. If you believe that is a right then it should be 18. However, I don't believe the 2nd amendment applies to personal gun ownership. It wasn't until the the last 30 years that the SC started ruling that way thanks to the so called constitutionalists like Scalia.

Politico Media Bias Rating

Learn the AllSides Media Bias Rating of Politico. AllSides rates the media bias of hundreds of news outlets, media sources and writers.

www.allsides.com

 

[Urohawk]

No, 18 is not the "age of consent" for everything, as has been pointed out elsewhere. Some adult rights imbueat 18, others do not. Even the most conservative Supreme Court justices have not opined that second amendment rights start at age 18. Not sure why you are so hung up on that.

Age of consent is determined by the states. Hint, none of them are over 18. Many are much younger.

What is the Age of Consent in All 50 States? | Legal Age of Consent Map

In the United States, the legal age at which a person can consent to sexual activity range from 16 to 18. This page contains a map of all 50 states laws.

www.bhwlawfirm.com

 

[dandh]

Why? Gang related firearms crimes and related felonious acts should absolutely count towards the number. It’s a nationwide problem and these crimes play a huge part in the statistics.

Those count toward a number, but we should delineate between the high profile high volume events and times when two people get shot in a gang battle. It confuses people about the scope of the problem:

"Oh, what a horrendous, devastating loss of life at Uvalde."

"Yeah, and did you know We have 402 of these mass shootings this year?"

Conflating begets confusion, imo.

 

[Gimmered]

That's a counter argument to those saying you can't buy a gun until 25. If you believe that is a right then it should be 18. However, I don't believe the 2nd amendment applies to personal gun ownership. It wasn't until the the last 30 years that the SC started ruling that way thanks to the so called constitutionalists like Scalia.

Politico Media Bias Rating

Learn the AllSides Media Bias Rating of Politico. AllSides rates the media bias of hundreds of news outlets, media sources and writers.

www.allsides.com

There really haven't been that many 2nd Amendment cases go through the SCOTUS but all of them go counter to what you're saying. Especially the 2008 Heller ruling. Regardless of how you believe, the fact remains, we have the right to keep and bear arms.
It will be up to the SCOTUS to determine if 18 year old's are allowed. The latest ruling in the 9th says they can. They are already prohibited from handguns.

 

[Gimmered]

Age of consent is determined by the states. Hint, none of them are over 18. Many are much younger.

What is the Age of Consent in All 50 States? | Legal Age of Consent Map

In the United States, the legal age at which a person can consent to sexual activity range from 16 to 18. This page contains a map of all 50 states laws.

www.bhwlawfirm.com

My Malware is blocking that site, but the age of majority is 19 in Nebraska. An 18 year old cannot enter into a contract.

 

[Pinehawk]

So if I'm 30 and join a gun crew I don't need training because I'm more mature? This would support training for everyone who owns a firearm. Why not require training and competency training for all gun ownership?

I’m all for that.

But, yes, in general I’d trust a 30 year old over an 18 year old with a gun.

 

[Urohawk]

There really haven't been that many 2nd Amendment cases go through the SCOTUS but all of them go counter to what you're saying. Especially the 2008 Heller ruling. Regardless of how you believe, the fact remains, we have the right to keep and bear arms.
It will be up to the SCOTUS to determine if 18 year old's are allowed. The latest ruling in the 9th says they can. They are already prohibited from handguns.

Sorry I posted wrong article. You just agreed with me. It's in the last 30 years its been a right to own a firearm. I accidentally posted politicos media bias which is slightly left but many other non-partisan authors have said similar things after Heller.

How the NRA Rewrote the Second Amendment

The Founders never intended to create an unregulated individual right to a gun. Today, millions believe they did. Here’s how it happened.

www.politico.com

 

[dandh]

Sorry I posted wrong article. You just agreed with me. It's in the last 30 years its been a right to own a firearm. I accidentally posted politicos media bias which is slightly left but many other non-partisan authors have said similar things after Heller.

How the NRA Rewrote the Second Amendment

The Founders never intended to create an unregulated individual right to a gun. Today, millions believe they did. Here’s how it happened.

www.politico.com

That's odd, because St. George Tucker, the William & Mary law professor who wrote the most prominent law book in the early years and who was the most quoted jurist in the early 1800s saw the second amendment right to bear arms as:

"the right is individual, not a state's right; it belongs to everyone, not just militia members; its purposes include defense against tyranny and hunting"

according to the linked law journal article. The linked article is quite lengthy and well annotated, but totally destroys the myth some try to create about how gun ownership was viewed by early legal scholars. I found it worth reading and very informative.

The Second Amendment in the Nineteenth Century

During the 19th century, almost everyone recognized the Second Amendment as an individual right

davekopel.org