POLL: Which Parts of Biden's American Families Plan Do You Like, In Principle?

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Let's see how much of his program HROT can get on board with, in principle. We can quibble about the costs and details later.

Here are the main points:

The American Families Plan calls for a $200 billion program offering universal pre-kindergarten for all three- and four-year-olds; $109 billion for tuition-free community college for any American who wants it; $85 billion to increase Pell Grants to benefit low-income and minority students; and more than $4 billion in funding for larger scholarships, certification and support programs for teachers.​

​

The plan would build upon provisions of the American Rescue Plan by extending the Affordable Care Act premiums tax credits indefinitely and make the earned income tax credit expansion for childless workers permanent. It would permanently make the child tax credit fully available to the lowest-income families, while extending other aspects of the expansion of the credit, such as the increase in the credit amount, through 2025.​

​

The proposal also calls for the creation of a national paid family and medical leave program. The $225 billion investment would provide workers up to $4,000 a month if they require leave to care for a new child, care for a seriously ill loved one, deal with an illness or another serious reason.​

​

Other measures Biden will call on Congress to pass include a $45 billion investment in meal programs for children and low-income families; unemployment insurance reform; $225 billion for investments in child care that would include a $15 minimum wage for early childhood staff and expanded child care center accessibility.​

Here's what's in Biden's $1.8T American Families Plan

 

[Titanhawk2]

Pell grants and tax credits are fine if they are properly used. Unemployment insurance reform I assume is not really reform, because that would make one think it is targeted at getting people off of it.

 

[Capital1Hawk]

Not a fan of the free community college. Would prefer trades specific certifications/degrees which are needed. Why make CC equivalent to just another 2 years of high school and worthless from an employer's perspective unless they do something above and beyond after that 2 years.

I can get on board with child tax credit and dependent care credits. Always thought they were too low when I could have used the help 10+ years ago. The $5k cap on cafeteria plans are ridiculously low for dependent care too. Can't send a kid to daycare for even remotely close to that amount and that's for all kids. So if you have 3 or more kids then may as well have one of the parents quit working. Saw they bumped this by another $5.5k so that's better at least.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I'm ok with all of it. Although I look at the community college thing as something that perhaps we should allow cost to be based upon income level.

Not everything needs to be either totally free to everyone or everyone must pay full price. Some things we can take and have society pay for part and the student and/or his family pay for part.

 

[DogBoyRy]

Let's see how much of his program HROT can get on board with, in principle. We can quibble about the costs and details later.

Here are the main points:

The American Families Plan calls for a $200 billion program offering universal pre-kindergarten for all three- and four-year-olds; $109 billion for tuition-free community college for any American who wants it; $85 billion to increase Pell Grants to benefit low-income and minority students; and more than $4 billion in funding for larger scholarships, certification and support programs for teachers.​

​

The plan would build upon provisions of the American Rescue Plan by extending the Affordable Care Act premiums tax credits indefinitely and make the earned income tax credit expansion for childless workers permanent. It would permanently make the child tax credit fully available to the lowest-income families, while extending other aspects of the expansion of the credit, such as the increase in the credit amount, through 2025.​

​

The proposal also calls for the creation of a national paid family and medical leave program. The $225 billion investment would provide workers up to $4,000 a month if they require leave to care for a new child, care for a seriously ill loved one, deal with an illness or another serious reason.​

​

Other measures Biden will call on Congress to pass include a $45 billion investment in meal programs for children and low-income families; unemployment insurance reform; $225 billion for investments in child care that would include a $15 minimum wage for early childhood staff and expanded child care center accessibility.​

Here's what's in Biden's $1.8T American Families Plan

A better poll might be if you think the plan is more socialist or communist.

 

[bladel]

A better poll might be if you think the plan is more socialist or communist.

Good idea. Then we can identify the respondents who don't understand either of those terms.

 

[NDallasRuss]

For most of those items, my view of them is dependent on where the money comes from to support them. Nothing is "free", and that $200B - which we know is just a starting point - has to come from somewhere. I'd prefer it not be the result of additional debt.

A couple of specific things...

"...increase Pell Grants to benefit low-income and minority students..." - I think it's good to increase access to low income students. I think that targeting increased grant funding for one/some races over others is just going to further divide people.

"...the creation of a national paid family and medical leave program...would provide workers up to $4,000 a month if they require leave..." - I don't like this as it's written here. If the gov't wants to do something like this, I think it would be better to have a system that incentivizes employers to give the paid time off - tax credits, reimbursements, etc., rather than just having a fund that will pay people not to work. They also need to be REALLY specific about what "deal with an illness or another serious reason" is going to mean. Otherwise a lot of people are going to be taking paid leave to "deal with" all kinds of questionable ailments - most of which I'm sure they can get doctors notes for; kinda like sketchy worker's comp ailments.

 

[UNIowaHawk]

I will attempt to tackle one at a time:

• Universal pre-kindergarten: We deemed many years ago that Kindergarten was a good starting point. People sent their kids to preschool/child care beforehand. Now is the notion Kindergarten is not sufficient?
• Tuition-free community college: This is a state issue. Many community colleges are no different than some 4yr colleges.
• Increase Pell Grants for low income and minority students: Remove "minority" and I am fine. Race, ethnicity, nationality, etc. should not be taken into consideration.
• Scholarships, certification and support for teachers: I have no problem with this. Most beginning teachers get paid trash as it is. I would be more in favor of loan forgiveness reform for teachers
• Extend or make permanent tax credits for health care, EIC and child care: This is too broad to speak on.
• Money for meal programs for children and low-income families: How is this different an WIC or SNAP or Food Stamps or whatever they are called now?
• Unemployment insurance reform: What does this entail? Seems broad.
• Money for child care and wage support for child care providers: Again, not sure what this means. Interpreting as being something to incentivize child care providers.
• Paid family leave: Why would the government get involved in this any further? There already is family leave, but the government shouldn't force companies to compensate (though most already do) and the government shouldn't be forking it out either.

 

[DogBoyRy]

I will attempt to tackle one at a time:

• Universal pre-kindergarten: We deemed many years ago that Kindergarten was a good starting point. People sent their kids to preschool/child care beforehand. Now is the notion Kindergarten is not sufficient?
• Tuition-free community college: This is a state issue. Many community colleges are no different than some 4yr colleges.
• Increase Pell Grants for low income and minority students: Remove "minority" and I am fine. Race, ethnicity, nationality, etc. should not be taken into consideration.
• Scholarships, certification and support for teachers: I have no problem with this. Most beginning teachers get paid trash as it is. I would be more in favor of loan forgiveness reform for teachers
• Extend or make permanent tax credits for health care, EIC and child care: This is too broad to speak on.
• Money for meal programs for children and low-income families: How is this different an WIC or SNAP or Food Stamps or whatever they are called now?
• Unemployment insurance reform: What does this entail? Seems broad.
• Money for child care and wage support for child care providers: Again, not sure what this means. Interpreting as being something to incentivize child care providers.
• Paid family leave: Why would the government get involved in this any further? There already is family leave, but the government shouldn't force companies to compensate (though most already do) and the government shouldn't be forking it out either.

Let's be honest for a change. The teacher "support" is nothing but more $$ payback to the teacher unions. Following up zero discussion making them go back to teaching classes.

 

[doughuddl2]

Spending 10 trillion this year. Yeah baby!!

 

[83Hawk]

None. They are all either unnecessary, or the responsibility of state/local governments, or individuals.

 

[Bank of Hawk]

They all look nice and shiny

 

[anon_ddojbbh8q7xrt]

All of it. He is a genius and saint.

 

[runkpanole]

Need to see more details.

 

[Hawkeye_311]

I'm ok with all of it. Although I look at the community college thing as something that perhaps we should allow cost to be based upon income level.

Not everything needs to be either totally free to everyone or everyone must pay full price. Some things we can take and have society pay for part and the student and/or his family pay for part.

18 year old college kid = Income level of $0.00

 

[denmar81]

If welfare reform was included I’d approve.

 

[Hawkeye_311]

Another week another 2 trillion in the hole. Get ready for tax increases on the middle and lower classes.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

18 year old college kid = Income level of $0.00

True but parents often pay for college education.

Federal aid is often based upon the income of your parents if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Finance85]

I checked one box. Food for children. The rest is just a major expansion of transfer of wealth, and will never go away.

 

[DogBoyRy]

Good idea. Then we can identify the respondents who don't understand either of those terms.

Exactly comrade.

 

[gohawks50]

Not a fan of the free community college. Would prefer trades specific certifications/degrees which are needed. Why make CC equivalent to just another 2 years of high school and worthless from an employer's perspective unless they do something above and beyond after that 2 years.

I can get on board with child tax credit and dependent care credits. Always thought they were too low when I could have used the help 10+ years ago. The $5k cap on cafeteria plans are ridiculously low for dependent care too. Can't send a kid to daycare for even remotely close to that amount and that's for all kids. So if you have 3 or more kids then may as well have one of the parents quit working. Saw they bumped this by another $5.5k so that's better at least.

I definitely think up to 2 year trade schools should be free as well. As far as community college becoming an extension of high school, I disagree. I think of it more as a jump start to a college education for many that cannot afford to pay for an full 4 years of college. With the first to years being free the same young people may have the ability to afford the final 2 years to receive a degree. Other young people will enter the work force after high school even with the free option.

 

[FormerlyCyberCy]

I'm ok with all of it. Although I look at the community college thing as something that perhaps we should allow cost to be based upon income level.

Not everything needs to be either totally free to everyone or everyone must pay full price. Some things we can take and have society pay for part and the student and/or his family pay for part.

Why add complexity? High income earners are likely not going to take many spots in community colleges. And we‘re taking tuition, not full cost.

 

[IowaHawkeyeFBnBB4Life]

Paid family leave we can discuss, the rest is wasteful spending and trying to garner more dependence on big government.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

If welfare reform was included I’d approve.

So . . . you want it to be more complicated before you'll get on board.

Unusual choice.

 

[Rifler]

Most Americans will like this because most Americans will think that they can qualify for some of these goodies while having somebody else pay for all of them,.. People like free shit, who knew?

 

[Finance85]

Most Americans will like this because most Americans will think that they can qualify for some of these goodies while having somebody else pay for all of them,.. People like free shit, who knew?

Except nothing is free.

I recognize your mild sarcasm BTW.

 

[83Hawk]

Except nothing is free.

I recognize your mild sarcasm BTW.

But many Americans are too stupid to understand that.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Some things cost more in the long run if you spend all your time bitching about whether or not they are truly free.

Saying nothing is free is both wrong - lots of things are free to all, and lots more are free to some - and a childish deflection.

 

[Finance85]

Some things cost more in the long run if you spend all your time bitching about whether or not they are truly free.

Saying nothing is free is both wrong - lots of things are free to all, and lots more are free to some - and a childish deflection.

Name one thing provided by a government agency that's truly free?

 

[thewop]

In principle I'm all for free stuff for all! Problem is I'm also as a matter of principle against a simple "tax the rich" strategy without ANY thought of first cleaning up all the waste.

Paying for every grand idea with "tax the rich" is not sustainable. "Tax the rich" works a limited number of times and should be reserved for extreme dire circumstances (matters that could result in the nation dissolving). This isn't that.

 

[WisestIowan]

If welfare reform was included I’d approve.

As in get people off of it or as in keep people on it, get more people on it and give them more?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Name one thing provided by a government agency that's truly free?

OK, move the goalposts why don't you.

Even so, there are so many government investments that show such huge returns on investment, that for most Americans, many things are free or darn close to it - from roads, public schools, and clean air, to the internet, much entertainment, food safety, police and fire. Not to mention, when was the last time we were invaded by the Grand Duchy of Fenwick?

Some people play little or no taxes for those things, some pay a chunk. For many, "free" is the correct word - especially if you only count money paid to governments.

And in the case of free lunch, kids who get a free lunch in school are actually getting their lunch free.

 

[DogBoyRy]

OK, move the goalposts why don't you.

Even so, there are so many government investments that show such huge returns on investment, that for most Americans, many things are free or darn close to it - from roads, public schools, and clean air, to the internet, much entertainment, food safety, police and fire. Not to mention, when was the last time we were invaded by the Grand Duchy of Fenwick?

Some people play little or no taxes for those things, some pay a chunk. For many, "free" is the correct word - especially if you only count money paid to governments.

And in the case of free lunch, kids who get a free lunch in school are actually getting their lunch free.

Wow.
This is gold.

 

[Finance85]

OK, move the goalposts why don't you.

Even so, there are so many government investments that show such huge returns on investment, that for most Americans, many things are free or darn close to it - from roads, public schools, and clean air, to the internet, much entertainment, food safety, police and fire. Not to mention, when was the last time we were invaded by the Grand Duchy of Fenwick?

Some people play little or no taxes for those things, some pay a chunk. For many, "free" is the correct word - especially if you only count money paid to governments.

And in the case of free lunch, kids who get a free lunch in school are actually getting their lunch free.

It wasn't moving the goalpost. That question was in direct response to this post

Saying nothing is free is both wrong - lots of things are free to all, and lots more are free to some - and a childish deflection.

Kids don't get a free lunch. That lunch is paid for by taxpayers. All those other things aren't free either. They are being paid for by taxpayers. It might seem free to the user, but it's not really free. Promoting things as free that really have a cost is disingenuous. Heck, people who pay a lot of taxes don't even get a think you from anyone. They get demonized instead, and everyone is told they don't pay their fair share.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Kids don't get a free lunch. That lunch is paid for by taxpayers.

Kids do get a free lunch.

Yes, that's paid by someone. So it isn't free in an absolutist sense. But it is free to the kid. And for some parents who aren't paying the taxes that support those free lunches, it's also free to them.

I don't have school kids, but I do pay taxes for schools. So it isn't free to me, but it's a value worth paying for.

We as a society sometimes agree to fund things we deem beneficial to society - thereby making them free to the consumer. We don't charge kids (or their parents) to go to public K-12. We as a society pay for it, but it's free to them. Nobody (yet) gets charged to breathe the cleaner air that results from tax-paid enforcement of clean air laws. Most roads we use are not toll roads. When I visit my friends I walk on sidewalks in their town without paying.

This is as obvious to you as it is to everyone else.

We say "let's make pre-K free" or "let's make community college free" - but we are not saying " we have a way to eliminate all costs." We are saying "let's shift that cost to the society, rather than to the student or parent."

Again, you know this. So why do you keep acting like we are pretending to have come up with a way to eliminate all costs? Nobody is saying that. And almost nobody is actually confused by there being different meanings of "free" - nor by which meaning is appropriate in these kinds of discussions.

 

[Tom Paris]

A better poll might be if you think the plan is more socialist or communist.

DogBoy, first, doesn't understand either of these two terms, and second, prefers socialism for the wealthy only.

 

[Tom Paris]

For most of those items, my view of them is dependent on where the money comes from to support them. Nothing is "free", and that $200B - which we know is just a starting point - has to come from somewhere. I'd prefer it not be the result of additional debt.

A couple of specific things...

"...increase Pell Grants to benefit low-income and minority students..." - I think it's good to increase access to low income students. I think that targeting increased grant funding for one/some races over others is just going to further divide people.

"...the creation of a national paid family and medical leave program...would provide workers up to $4,000 a month if they require leave..." - I don't like this as it's written here. If the gov't wants to do something like this, I think it would be better to have a system that incentivizes employers to give the paid time off - tax credits, reimbursements, etc., rather than just having a fund that will pay people not to work. They also need to be REALLY specific about what "deal with an illness or another serious reason" is going to mean. Otherwise a lot of people are going to be taking paid leave to "deal with" all kinds of questionable ailments - most of which I'm sure they can get doctors notes for; kinda like sketchy worker's comp ailments.

If Pell grants are used how they should be, white kids who live in poverty should be able to take advantage of these as well. I got one after I became independent...back in the day.

 

[Tom Paris]

I checked one box. Food for children. The rest is just a major expansion of transfer of wealth, and will never go away.

So you're good with transfer of wealth from the middle class to the rich? Because that's what's been happening for decades.

 

[bladel]

Kids do get a free lunch.

Yes, that's paid by someone. So it isn't free in an absolutist sense. But it is free to the kid. And for some parents who aren't paying the taxes that support those free lunches, it's also free to them.

I don't have school kids, but I do pay taxes for schools. So it isn't free to me, but it's a value worth paying for.

We as a society sometimes agree to fund things we deem beneficial to society - thereby making them free to the consumer. We don't charge kids (or their parents) to go to public K-12. We as a society pay for it, but it's free to them. Nobody (yet) gets charged to breathe the cleaner air that results from tax-paid enforcement of clean air laws. Most roads we use are not toll roads. When I visit my friends I walk on sidewalks in their town without paying.

This is as obvious to you as it is to everyone else.

We say "let's make pre-K free" or "let's make community college free" - but we are not saying " we have a way to eliminate all costs." We are saying "let's shift that cost to the society, rather than to the student or parent."

Again, you know this. So why do you keep acting like we are pretending to have come up with a way to eliminate all costs? Nobody is saying that. And almost nobody is actually confused by there being different meanings of "free" - nor by which meaning is appropriate in these kinds of discussions.

One. Hundred. Percent.

I for one am growing weary of hearing the contorted “conservative” arguments against economic growth and investment, all of which at the end of the day, boil down to a single position: ”But what if I pay for something, and someone else gets the benefits?”

Yeah. That’s kinda the point. And sometimes you benefit from programs or services that you couldn’t afford as an individual. It’s called living in an advanced society. Stop proclaiming that America is the greatest country on earth, and start taking steps to make/keep it that way. Stop thinking like a Consumer and start thinking like a Citizen.

For most of my adult life, America has been run like a pawn shop: liquidating everything our parents left us for a quick buck. Never invest. Never maintain. Even as bridges are falling into the water, schools and airports are crumbling, and entire cities drink water delivered in 100-year-old lead pipes. For-profit healthcare brought to the brink by a virus that blends the worst of the Flu and Measles.

And the same folks who refuse to consider paying for anything new are the first ones to point to other countries and call them “s***holes”. Well who is the s-hole country now?

The good news is that I think this ideology is just about played out. People have watched the government turn on a firehose of money when its for two decades of wars, or to bail out banks, or prop up Wall Street. But the things they want are “to expensive”, and their communities have been left to rot. Now they want a drink, too.

The biggest lie in American politics is “We don’t have the money.”

 

[alaskanseminole]

I think most would agree the majority of what is listed in the OP is moving society in the right direction. The question, however, has always been who's responsibility is it; government, private industry, charitable groups, or a combination of all three? Look at what churches do for the community [and I'm not talking about fringe groups like Westbro Baptist Church], my church donates more to the San Antonio foodbank in a single weekend (our annual Easter drive) than the rest of the year combined. When Hurricane Katrina hit, our church became a triage center and refugee camp. --and that's just ONE church.

So, not to get too far down a single lane road, who/how pays for what programs? How does a society combined of achievers, over-achievers, under-achievers, criminals, etc. find balance? There are hard workers who can't seem to get a leg up and under-achievers who simply want a free hand out? How many times does the GOP rant about lazy people on welfare? Problem is, I know people on welfare who bust their ass and still can't get ahead and I also know lazy people on welfare who are just that...lazy.