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Portal and the NIL

hawkeyeuser1 said:
I disagree with this. NIL money will make it easier to get around 9.9 scholarships for teams that can get a package together for a top recruit or transfer.
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Where exactly do you think this substantive NIL money will be coming from for anyone less than Spencer Lee? Also, you do realize it is exactly illegal to offer NIL money during the recruiting or transfer process, right?

You MAY be able to get a guy here or there with it, but NIL isn't going to be for wrestling what you think it will be. Even Football is starting to readjust and back off how it first started and their revenue dwarfs anything that will ever be used by Hawkeye wrestling supporters by a nearly immeasurable margin...
 
MSU158 said:
Where exactly do you think this substantiv NIL money will be coming from for anyone less than Spencer Lee? Also, you do realize it is exactly illegal to offer NIL money during the recruiting or transfer process, right?

You MAY be able to get a guy here or there with it, but NIL isn't going to be for wrestling what you think it will be. Even Football is starting to readjust and back off how it first started and their revenue dwarfs anything that will ever be used by Hawkeye wrestling supporters by a nearly immeasurable margin...
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It may be illegal, and definitely not the intended meaning of the rule change, but it is for sure happening. If you follow Iowa football recruiting (good chance you don’t based on your name) there was a highly rated left tackle from SE Polk that originally committed to Iowa, only to leave and commit to Alabama. Most believe it has to do with NIL.

It’s the Wild West in college athletics right now. Nil money will be spoken about for top recruits at blue blood schools, like Iowa in wrestling.
 
HawkFan1986 said:
It may be illegal, and definitely not the intended meaning of the rule change, but it is for sure happening. If you follow Iowa football recruiting (good chance you don’t based on your name) there was a highly rated left tackle from SE Polk that originally committed to Iowa, only to leave and commit to Alabama. Most believe it has to do with NIL.

It’s the Wild West in college athletics right now. Nil money will be spoken about for top recruits at blue blood schools, like Iowa in wrestling.
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I get that it is happening in Football. The amount of money involved made it inevitable. However, the Wild West part is already starting to simmer down and correct itself after the Texas A&M debacle. On top of that, make no mistake, the NCAA WILL step in at some point and smash some egregious cheaters eventually.

For now, the NCAA is taking a hands off approach with an "I told you so!" attitude. They basically said so when their appeals fell on deaf ears during the final stages of allowing NIL. At some point it WILL benefit them to step in with heavy sanctions and they will POUNCE when the timing is right.

With that in mind, along with how "by the book" the Brands have been in regards to recruiting over the years, I really don't think they let themselves get to deep into the NIL well without it being for guys that are already established in the program and doing it "by the book"...
 
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MSU158 said:
Well aware. I wouldn't have said a thing about anyone but Lee if it were otherwise. To make it simpler here is how I would tier off Iowa's starters Finalist chances:

Tier 1-90% chance or higher
Spencer Lee

Tier 2-75-89% chance
Woods

Tier 3- 50-74% chance
Nobody

Tier 4-25-49% chance
Warner and Cass

Tier 5-10-24% chance

Tier 6-1%-9% chance
Murin and Kennedy

Essential NO CHANCE
Teske, Siebricht, Brands and Assad
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OK - I just disagree with Woods as I believe he is as likely of a finalist as say Kerkvliet, which I believe would be a Tier 1 in your scoring. I would put Cass Tier 3 at the lowest with someone like Dean. Warner too but I do believe he has a better chance of being knocked off early and wrestling back to finish 3rd. That being said, Dean by most reasonable accounts should not have even been a finalist last year and is not wrestling at a much higher level than Warner presently is. I don't think he should be considered a sure fire 2023 finalist by any stretch of the imagination.
 
hawkeyeuser1 said:
I disagree with this. NIL money will make it easier to get around 9.9 scholarships for teams that can get a package together for a top recruit or transfer.
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That's what I've been wondering and why I started this thread.

We need to get creative as you can practically buy a lineup now.

The stuff going on in football and basketball is just crazy right now.

See no reason why wrestling won't be any different.
 
HawkMachine said:
That's what I've been wondering and why I started this thread.

We need to get creative as you can practically buy a lineup now.

The stuff going on in football and basketball is just crazy right now.

See no reason why wrestling won't be any different.
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Football and Basketball are revenue sports where most of these kids getting NIL offers are(or soon will be) household names to people that aren't even necessarily big fans of either sport.

Meanwhile, wrestling is a super fringe sport and even the bigger fans don't know more than maybe 5 names of the top 50 recruits per season. Like I said before, you may be able to squeeze 1 or 2 big name recruits or transfers every 4 year recruiting cycle or so, but it WILL NOT be the tool you wish it to be for Iowa...
 
MSU158 said:
Football and Basketball are revenue sports where most of these kids getting NIL offers are(or soon will be) household names to people that aren't even necessarily big fans of either sport.

Meanwhile, wrestling is a super fringe sport and even the bigger fans don't know more than maybe 5 names of the top 50 recruits per season. Like I said before, you may be able to squeeze 1 or 2 big name recruits or transfers every 4 year recruiting cycle or so, but it WILL NOT be the tool you wish it to be for Iowa...
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The big name athletes in wrestling won't get the same money as the big names in football and basketball for sure. Wrestling will be on a smaller scale but similar affect. The blue bloods will have more fans, more donors and more money to play. Also, schools like Iowa, PSU and OSU will have marketing opportunities that others might not (T-Shirt sales, paid appearances, etc...). The curveball would also be a single big donor could have a huge affect on a program. Like a T. Boone Pickens or Phil Knight senerio. I don't know who those are in wrestling or where but you would think a program like Cornell or Pitt or whoever might have potential to find an influencer.
 
hawkeyeuser1 said:
The big name athletes in wrestling won't get the same money as the big names in football and basketball for sure. Wrestling will be on a smaller scale but similar affect. The blue bloods will have more fans, more donors and more money to play. Also, schools like Iowa, PSU and OSU will have marketing opportunities that others might not (T-Shirt sales, paid appearances, etc...). The curveball would also be a single big donor could have a huge affect on a program. Like a T. Boone Pickens or Phil Knight senerio. I don't know who those are in wrestling or where but you would think a program like Cornell or Pitt or whoever might have potential to find an influencer.
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BTW - I don't like it either. The whole NIL stuff has taken some of the innocence out of college athletics.
 
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ChiPackHawk said:
My point was it is fairly difficult to have an extended discussion on your home Board that stays even reasonably rational. I have tried and it is always sabotaged by someone with the Napoleon complex.
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Oh ok. I’m banned over there. If I wasn’t, I’d go over and gripe to them on your behalf.
 
hawkeyeuser1 said:
The big name athletes in wrestling won't get the same money as the big names in football and basketball for sure. Wrestling will be on a smaller scale but similar affect. The blue bloods will have more fans, more donors and more money to play. Also, schools like Iowa, PSU and OSU will have marketing opportunities that others might not (T-Shirt sales, paid appearances, etc...). The curveball would also be a single big donor could have a huge affect on a program. Like a T. Boone Pickens or Phil Knight senerio. I don't know who those are in wrestling or where but you would think a program like Cornell or Pitt or whoever might have potential to find an influencer.
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I just don't see if for Iowa until the methods and rules stabilize and enforcement is expected and understood. The Brands don't strike me as guys that are willing to go down into(let alone deep into) that well without knowing for sure the rope is secure to pull them back up without a problem AND the returns from the well are worth going down there in the 1st place...
 
johnstownsteel said:
Oh ok. I’m banned over there. If I wasn’t, I’d go over and gripe to them on your behalf.
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You deserve to be banned over there. You've been hanging out here too much picking up bad habits. You can't be posting stuff like this on your home mat!

Posted by JTS on BWI:

"Nice chat about this on FRL this morning. Pyles, Shane and JD seemed to believe this year's team has a legit chance of being Carl's best up to this point."

giphy.gif
 
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82bordeaux said:
You deserve to be banned over there. You've been hanging out here too much picking up bad habits. You can't be posting stuff like this on your home mat!

Posted by JTS on BWI:

"Nice chat about this on FRL this morning. Pyles, Shane and JD seemed to believe this year's team has a legit chance of being Carl's best up to this point."

I
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Look, I'm not going to argue. I deserved it. Matter of fact, I should have been flogged as well. That being said, you peds need to go to your own board! What a loser you must be to be posting on another teams board. LOSER!
 
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Missing some stuff on the portal by only talking about the NIL$$$. IOWA has done pretty well lately with transfers. Having the best facility in the world and the largest fan base could be TWOOOOO huge factors for someone looking to transfer

A lot of the bigger/better programs do not bring in many fans. You watch some of the other schools in a dual and it could be held in a HS gym! Even Woods talked about the environment. That would be a big factor for me knowing how important the program is to the fans.

I believe with the new facility the HWC will also start to get going again. The women program if it stays combined as far as just one club? That should also help.
 
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Waiting for Novogratz to buy a national championship for Princeton one of these days.
 
johnstownsteel said:
Look, I'm not going to argue. I deserved it. Matter of fact, I should have been flogged as well. That being said, you peds need to go to your own board! What a loser you must be to be posting on another teams board. LOSER!
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I copy and pasted it and sent it to Carl himself. Said it was some sort of inside joke amongst PSU fans along with bald jokes.
 
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blcoach80 said:
157 is pretty weak this year, which will help Haines. I think Bartlett AA at 141. I think Van Ness and Facunado (spelling?) are both 1-2/2-2 guys this year, but are both solid guys. 125 is a gaping hole. I don't think PSU worries too much about depth, they just want can't miss studs and hope they don't need depth (they have been very fortunate on the injury front recently). We tend to have more depth, but less separation between our starter and backup. I think that is something that will have to change, as Carl has proved his method wins more titles. With that being said, one injury to the power 5 would change the whole narrative this year. Look at us last year.
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I don't pay close enough attention but how often does that other school have injuries like Iowa seems to have fairly consistently?
 
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IRONBIRD said:
Anyone hear anything about Sammy Alvarez leaving Rutgers? I believe he may have had some weight issues making 141? Not sure what the situation is or what eligibility he has left, but a possibility as a 149 maybe if he enters portal?
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Alvarez anyone? Alvarez? Apparently hit the portal
el dub said:
Hell no. Wake up. Lol
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I am guessing that his term "finalist contenders" is a matter of how you want to interpret it? Here in the cesspool one has to be pretty careful not to wind up in sheet!!!

I believe his statement is correct. IOWA certainly does have 4 guys who could contend for a championship/spot in the finals.

1-Lee obviously

2-Woods would seem to be a pretty good bet if healthy?

3-Warner, although he has not looked his best. He was a finalist last year and has been pretty good his entire career at the big dance.

4-BIG Cass, yes he got beat by KerKin but how fast do some of you fans write the guy off!?!?! I fully admit, he did not look good in that match, but since then has for the most part picked it up. He will need to make some adjustments/get a good seed/possibly beat someone he hasn't yet, but I believe he is certainly in the conversation!
 
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el dub said:
You also said true. No?
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I did in fact. A true finalist contender means someone who has a "chance" to be in the finals. No place did I ever say guaranteed. Spencer Lee - duh, Real Woods - ranked #2 and Two-time All American. I believe that qualifies as a contender. Warner - been there so I believe that qualifies him as a contender. Cass - ranked #3/4 and has beaten the #1 several times. I believe that qualifies him as a contender. I understand reading comprehension is a skill. Try acquiring it.
 
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ChiPackHawk said:
I did in fact. A true finalist contender means someone who has a "chance" to be in the finals. No place did I ever say guaranteed. Spencer Lee - duh, Real Woods - ranked #2 and Two-time All American. I believe that qualifies as a contender. Warner - been there so I believe that qualifies him as a contender. Cass - ranked #3/4 and has beaten the #1 several times. I believe that qualifies him as a contender. I understand reading comprehension is a skill. Try acquiring it.
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The way you define "chance" is really the key to calling someone a "true contender". To be fair, basically ANYONE that makes the NCAA Tournament has a "chance". To me, "true contender" means you should be leaning much closer to "likely" making it than having a chance.

Right now, Lee is the only one I say that for since Woods has been injured and we have barely seen him wrestle. Warner has looked rought to say the least(but I am still sticking with my picking him as the 197 Champ) and Cass has to show me he can beat Parris or Kerk this season(let alone Schultz or Davison) before I consider him a likely finalist.

That is why I did my percentages post. Based on that post do you think their chances are similar to what I listed? If so, we only really differ on what the realistic chances are to be a "true contender'?
 
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MSU158 said:
The way you define "chance" is really the key to calling someone a "true contender". To be fair, basically ANYONE that makes the NCAA Tournament has a "chance". To me, "true contender" means you should be leaning much closer to "likely" making it than having a chance.

Right now, Lee is the only one I say that for since Woods has been injured and we have barely seen him wrestle. Warner has looked rought to say the least(but I am still sticking with my picking him as the 197 Champ) and Cass has to show me he can beat Parris or Kerk this season(let alone Schultz or Davison) before I consider him a likely finalist.

That is why I did my percentages post. Based on that post do you think their chances are similar to what I listed? If so, we only really differ on what the realistic chances are to be a "true contender'?
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I said "true FINALIST CONTENDER" - WTF is wrong with you people! Stop your creative editing and tell me specifically how the four I listed are not in fact finalist contenders. Please enlighten me.
 
MSU158 said:
With 9.9 scholarships to spread across 10 starting spots, you will ALWAYS have holes. Hell, only 1 team in NCAA DI history has finished with all 10 AA's in a single season.

To be fair to Iowa, their "holes" are almost always still to 12-20ish type guys that at least have a shot with the right draw to be wrestling in the R12 for a shot at an AA spot. Even this season, Cobe is the only one that would be a stretch to expect to see him in an R12 match and he still has a win this season over Artalona who SHOULD be wrestling in that R12 match.

Mind you, even PSU usually has 1 or 2 holes with guys that most likely don't even qualify for NCAA's let alone have what it takes to win matches there. Now, they make up for it by almost always having 4-6 hammers that score huge points at NCAA's, while Iowa usually only has 1 or 2 guys that are locks for top 3 and then another 5 or 6 guys that are anywhere from that 3rd-R12 range depending on matchups.

So, in closing, I would RATHER see Iowa have 1 or 2 "holes" as long as they focus on having more guys like Spencer Lee or even a healthy Kemerer. Having 4-6 TRUE contenders almost certainly score more team points than having 10 guys in that 5th-12th range...
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And I did not define the word "chance". I used the word "chance" to say the four I listed have a "chance" to be in the finals.
 
ChiPackHawk said:
I said "true FINALIST CONTENDER" - WTF is wrong with you people! Stop your creative editing and tell me specifically how the four I listed are not in fact finalist contenders. Please enlighten me.
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Like I said, if you won't answer my percentage question I think we simply define a "true finalist contender" quite differently.

There is NO "creative editing" on my part. I was VERY detailed in what I think their "chances" are and what I think their chances SHOULD be to be considered "true contenders".

It's funny you call out others reading comprehension, but apparently can't follow simple logic...
 
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MSU158 said:
Like I said, if you won't answer my percentage question I think we simply define a "true finalist contender" quite differently.

There is NO "creative editing" on my part. I was VERY detailed in what I think their "chances" are and what I think their chances SHOULD be to be considered "true contenders".

It's funny you call out others reading comprehension, but apparently can't follow simple logic...
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there was creative editing. You said I said "true contender" - I absolutely stated "true finalist contender". I already did answer your question/comment about percentages. And for the sake of sanity, you've got el dub siding with you. That in itself is a strike against you with your argument with me here. And I'm not debating what you think - I'm simply saying if you are going to argue with me and call me out, them be accurate with what I said.
 
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MSU158 said:
Like I said, if you won't answer my percentage question I think we simply define a "true finalist contender" quite differently.

There is NO "creative editing" on my part. I was VERY detailed in what I think their "chances" are and what I think their chances SHOULD be to be considered "true contenders".

It's funny you call out others reading comprehension, but apparently can't follow simple logic...
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You are trying to tell someone that they didn't mean what they meant. Quit arguing semantics.
 
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johnstownsteel said:
Ok thank you. Just trying to get an overall feel for what or who you feel is a true finalist contender. I say yes as well although I put his chances at reaching the finals at around 25% give or take a few.
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If you are putting Pepe La Beau at 25%??? Then every guy from IOWA he mentioned is well above that right?
 
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