possible starting lineup this fall
- Thread starter thawk1
- Start date
I would agree that this is likely the starting line-up on Day1/Game1. However, IMO the line-up and player PT situation will be very fluid immediately from that point with Uhl and Jones strongly contending for starter spots at the expense of Clemmons (who I think will settle into a 6th man role fairly early in the season).
I don't expect Ellingson to start next season. His role will likely be a designated 3pt specialist off the bench - similar to what Oglesby was expected to do last year (only better!).
Your second line-up might be good offensively. But defensively it would get killed. I've come to think that the first line-up: Woody, Uthoff, Uhl, Jok, Gesell is the one we'll see starting with Jones and Clemmons filling out a top 7. Frosh will come in as ready in the top 8-9. This line-up gives enough offensive firepower with Uthoff, Jok, and the seniors Woody and Gesell, with Jones, Sapp, and a frosh or 2 providing more shooting off the bench. I think Uhl is going to be a defensive stopper. He can legitimately defend SF and some SG and PF at a long 6'8". I can't think of a past player that could do that for us. Uhl may improve his shooting percentages but we have other shooters and he'll get his O in transition and as a threat to drive.
Gesell
Jok
Uthoff
Uhl/Jones
Woody
Clemmons/Williams
Ellingson/Fleming
Moss/Hutton
Wagner
Fran seems to favor seniority over inexperience even if the backup is more talented. That is of course unless a guy like Aaron White comes along and plays their way into the starting line up and major minutes.
Jok
Uthoff
Uhl/Jones
Woody
Clemmons/Williams
Ellingson/Fleming
Moss/Hutton
Wagner
Fran seems to favor seniority over inexperience even if the backup is more talented. That is of course unless a guy like Aaron White comes along and plays their way into the starting line up and major minutes.
Seriously??? Could it be for every spectacular play the freshman makes, they make one turnover and miss one other opportunity, or give up an easy basket. Defense is usually the biggest deficiency of a freshman......Maybe, that upper classman has a better "overall" game than the freshman. ALL coaches (including KF) usually want to win. I read that in the newspaper, so it must be true.
I like Uhl, he needs to hit the training table and the weights this summer. Strength and at least 15 lbs. would be great on him.
I'm cautiously hopeful Ahmad Wagner comes in and looks strong and gets some time at the 4. While undersized height wise, if he muscles up more and can get off the floor he could be a Branden Dawson type player.
I'm cautiously hopeful Ahmad Wagner comes in and looks strong and gets some time at the 4. While undersized height wise, if he muscles up more and can get off the floor he could be a Branden Dawson type player.
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
I hope so. Lot of things to like about these guys. A big thing is that they come from winning programs that play vs high level competition
Predicting who will start next year is about the most uninterrsting topic you could come up with.
There's 5 upperclassmen with starting experience and a bunch of guys who have never played.
Seriously?
There's 5 upperclassmen with starting experience and a bunch of guys who have never played.
Seriously?
Its a great topic....since we're in the midst of basketball's dead zone (the clown carnival NBA doesn't count) where nothing much is happening.
We know that the team doesn't play well, or at least hasn't, with AC and MG on the floor together. Now that could change, of course, but the history doesn't bespeak that lineup.
Behind the five seniors we have two guys with a total of less than 300 minutes of college ball (Uhl and Ellingson) a JUCO and five freshman. Uhl showed very little and Ellingson hardly played before his RS. Unless Uhl really improves its easy to see how Jones or Wagner could start. Based entirely on the little I know about Jones it is very likely that he could start.
We know that the team doesn't play well, or at least hasn't, with AC and MG on the floor together. Now that could change, of course, but the history doesn't bespeak that lineup.
Behind the five seniors we have two guys with a total of less than 300 minutes of college ball (Uhl and Ellingson) a JUCO and five freshman. Uhl showed very little and Ellingson hardly played before his RS. Unless Uhl really improves its easy to see how Jones or Wagner could start. Based entirely on the little I know about Jones it is very likely that he could start.
Sure, many find it to be a lot fun to speculate what the various lineups could look like. If you don't like it then you don't have to read the posts.
Seriously, you don't have to.
SF-Jarrod Uthoff 6'9" 215lbs Sr. 20
PF-Dale Jones 6'8" 220lbs. Jr. TBA
C-Adam Woodbury 7'1" 245lbs Sr. 34
OG-Peter Jok 6'6" 200lbs. Jr. 3
PG-Mike Gesell 6'2" 190lbs. Sr. 10
SF-Brandon Hutton 6'6" 200lbs Fr. 30
PF-Dom Uhl 6'9" 210lbs. So. 25
C-Ahmad Wagner 6'7" 220lbs. Fr. 0
OG-Brady Ellingson 6'4" 190lbs RS Fr 24
OG-Andrew Fleming 6'5" 200lbs. Fr 2
OG-Isaiah Moss 6'6" 190lbs. Fr TBA
PG/OG-Christian Williams 6'6" 190lbs. Fr 11
PG-Anthony Clemmons 6'2" 195lbs. Sr 5
PF-Dale Jones 6'8" 220lbs. Jr. TBA
C-Adam Woodbury 7'1" 245lbs Sr. 34
OG-Peter Jok 6'6" 200lbs. Jr. 3
PG-Mike Gesell 6'2" 190lbs. Sr. 10
SF-Brandon Hutton 6'6" 200lbs Fr. 30
PF-Dom Uhl 6'9" 210lbs. So. 25
C-Ahmad Wagner 6'7" 220lbs. Fr. 0
OG-Brady Ellingson 6'4" 190lbs RS Fr 24
OG-Andrew Fleming 6'5" 200lbs. Fr 2
OG-Isaiah Moss 6'6" 190lbs. Fr TBA
PG/OG-Christian Williams 6'6" 190lbs. Fr 11
PG-Anthony Clemmons 6'2" 195lbs. Sr 5
I take it they have their numbers assigned already? If so, why do Jones & Moss not have numbers yet?
That is my starting lineup as well. At least by December. Might have a mix with Clemmons & Uhl to start. But Jones will get the nod at the 4, before B1G play
my only concern with Jones is his defense of which is a big question mark for me at this point. Uhl has been through a season of drills and coaching under Fran. I'm not suggesting Jones' coach down at Tyler CC wasn't coaching him properly more to the question of the level of play in his league and how necessary good defense was in that league. Also how sophisticated the opposing offenses were that he saw down there. Does/did Jones play in much zone D down there? anyone know?
hey my comments weren't meant as a criticism as much as an observation. i could be wrong but have noticed we tend to go with seniority in a lot of games when the skill/experience level is close over the Fran years and I'm not saying that's wrong. it seems from your post that we pretty much agree. yes, freshmen have deficiencies.
Theres 5 returning guys with starting experience. Hmm I wonder who the starters will be? What a complex question.
There's only one spot that could possibly be up for grabs. And it's between Clemons and Uhl.
The rest don't factor in at this point. There's no way any of them start off the bat.
There's only one spot that could possibly be up for grabs. And it's between Clemons and Uhl.
The rest don't factor in at this point. There's no way any of them start off the bat.
To start the season? No chance.
It's two guys for one spot and the other will be first off the bench.
Now after the ptl an interesting discussion will be who works their way into meaningful pt and maybe eventually starting but we haven't seen any of them play yet so at this point it's pointless.
I think it's easier to think in terms of those with scholarships even if they're unknowns vs. walk-ons who are also 'unknowns.' I think Baer could make a push for minutes especially because of his defense.
Who cares who starts. It's over rated in basketball. I care more about whose out on the floor late in the second half in a close game. Fran has shown he usually plays the guys who deserve to be out there that given night (I'm sure someone will reference player on bad night in during a tight game last year) but generally Fran has the right guys in.
Yes, Fran has had frosh/newcomers start at Iowa. Basabe started in 2010 because he had to. We were pretty weak at that time. Woody and Gesell started in 2012 because we needed them to- there were no veterans in front of them. That situation will occur again in 2016. White started in 2011 over veterans- but not consistently until the B1G season. And this after in his first game at Iowa he put up 19pts/10rbs https://iowa.rivals.com/bboxscore.asp?Game=52880 . When a 2015 frosh/newcomer puts up those kind of numbers in their first game, talk to me about them starting over the veterans. Could it happen? Maybe. But I'm not counting on it.
The veterans on the 2015 team I'm counting as the seniors, Jok and Uhl. Fran went out of his way to give minutes to Uhl during a year in which our frontcourt was stacked for a reason, he earned them. Jones is the most likely new guy to fill out the top 7 because he's a talented shooter, he's the biggest, and he does have JC experience which I know coach Francis values. Clemmons did have some frosh starting experience as MG was getting established and I believe the next year as well. However, I felt at the time that Fran did that because other line-ups that he would have preferred starting were not getting the job done. Woody, Uthoff, Uhl, Jok, Gesell as the starters seems to be the result, at least in the first part of the year.
The veterans on the 2015 team I'm counting as the seniors, Jok and Uhl. Fran went out of his way to give minutes to Uhl during a year in which our frontcourt was stacked for a reason, he earned them. Jones is the most likely new guy to fill out the top 7 because he's a talented shooter, he's the biggest, and he does have JC experience which I know coach Francis values. Clemmons did have some frosh starting experience as MG was getting established and I believe the next year as well. However, I felt at the time that Fran did that because other line-ups that he would have preferred starting were not getting the job done. Woody, Uthoff, Uhl, Jok, Gesell as the starters seems to be the result, at least in the first part of the year.
Its entertaining to speculate. McC has shown a preference for the traditional multi-dimensional forward. Uhl played because he fills that role and there was literally no one else that did, beyond White and Uthoff. McC obviously didn't want to run the Gesell/Jok/Clemmons or Oglesby line up very often.
While Uhl's PT from last season gives him a little advantage coming into camp it certainly doesn't assure him of being in the top five. Uhl was not impressive in any aspect of the game. He showed a few flashes but also a lot of weaknesses. He was a freshman and I'm hoping, and expecting him to improve but it isn't hard to see how Jones and maybe Wagner would jump Uhl.
While Uhl's PT from last season gives him a little advantage coming into camp it certainly doesn't assure him of being in the top five. Uhl was not impressive in any aspect of the game. He showed a few flashes but also a lot of weaknesses. He was a freshman and I'm hoping, and expecting him to improve but it isn't hard to see how Jones and maybe Wagner would jump Uhl.
Uhl has potential. Like you mentioned, he has shown flashes. He is an athlete that can run, too. One that has decent handles, especially for his size. BUT he has not proven nor shown consistency in any one area of his game. He has a long ways to go.
If DU works hard this off season, and elevates his game, I believe he can get it done. But he will have to push himself daily. If he doesnt, there are sharks in the tank that will gobble up his minutes. For certain.
If DU works hard this off season, and elevates his game, I believe he can get it done. But he will have to push himself daily. If he doesnt, there are sharks in the tank that will gobble up his minutes. For certain.
+1
How could you not be impressed with Uhl's ability to run the floor, lateral quickness, ball handling, and his rebounding rate seemed to be pretty good. There are definitely areas he needs to work on with shooting, court awareness, and strength but his confidence and mentality were refreshing on that team.
Maybe I'm way off but I believe the lineups Uhl played with had as much to do with how he looked as anything. Fran surrounded him with reluctant shooters in JO, Clemmons, and White (early in the year) which killed our spacing and limited Uhl's main offensive strength in driving the ball.
He was playing spot minutes backing up the teams two best players.
In that situation it's hard to be comfortable. Remember Utoff the year before and how reluctant he was.
Uhl was in a simillar, just don't mess up mode, but was still more aggressive than Jarrod as a soph.
IMO Uhl has more potential than any of the incoming freshman. He's has legit NBA caliber size/quickness/athleticism combo.
He did things that give you a glimps of what's likely coming next year, the same way Utoff did the year before.
Towards the end of the season he started putting it on the floor and showed an excellent low handle, the ability to cover allot of ground very quickly and explode off the floor.
He's going to be good.
In that situation it's hard to be comfortable. Remember Utoff the year before and how reluctant he was.
Uhl was in a simillar, just don't mess up mode, but was still more aggressive than Jarrod as a soph.
IMO Uhl has more potential than any of the incoming freshman. He's has legit NBA caliber size/quickness/athleticism combo.
He did things that give you a glimps of what's likely coming next year, the same way Utoff did the year before.
Towards the end of the season he started putting it on the floor and showed an excellent low handle, the ability to cover allot of ground very quickly and explode off the floor.
He's going to be good.
No, an eye for talent isn't everyone's gift. For example things like "he runs the floor" provide a pretty amorphous metric. To paraphrase the great Charles Barley, a deer can run the floor.
For almost all players a season is what his stats say it is. I'll concede there are some guys for whom stats don't tell the whole story, like Eric May for example, but for most guys the numbers tell the story. You aren't arguing that Uhl is a great team leader or lock down defender I assume.
Perhaps the 36.1% FG and 18.5% 3 point shooting that failed to impress me. Or, the 52.4% FT shooting. That line is still 15", right? When you break down the season, even those terrible shooting numbers are inflated by the extensive PT and 5-6 shooting in the Alcorn State game.
The elimination of all but a few minutes of PT down the Big Ten stretch run certainly didn't bespeak a star in the making. Probably benched because he looked lost most of the time, and especially lost when he was playing important first half minutes, to the coaches. The kid made some nice plays but more often that not something bad happened when he got the ball, including a lot of just drops-many of which he retrieved but it still slowed the offensive. When he shot, from anywhere, there was a 64-82% chance he would miss. His defense got a little better, of course, as the season progressed but hardly on the floor for defensive prowess.
Perhaps I have a higher threshold of impression than some. I surely hope the kid improves dramatically and does impress me. Right now had he transferred most fans would have hardly noticed and almost all of those that did would view Uhl's minimal contributions as most easily replaced by one of the three incoming forwards.
For almost all players a season is what his stats say it is. I'll concede there are some guys for whom stats don't tell the whole story, like Eric May for example, but for most guys the numbers tell the story. You aren't arguing that Uhl is a great team leader or lock down defender I assume.
Perhaps the 36.1% FG and 18.5% 3 point shooting that failed to impress me. Or, the 52.4% FT shooting. That line is still 15", right? When you break down the season, even those terrible shooting numbers are inflated by the extensive PT and 5-6 shooting in the Alcorn State game.
The elimination of all but a few minutes of PT down the Big Ten stretch run certainly didn't bespeak a star in the making. Probably benched because he looked lost most of the time, and especially lost when he was playing important first half minutes, to the coaches. The kid made some nice plays but more often that not something bad happened when he got the ball, including a lot of just drops-many of which he retrieved but it still slowed the offensive. When he shot, from anywhere, there was a 64-82% chance he would miss. His defense got a little better, of course, as the season progressed but hardly on the floor for defensive prowess.
Perhaps I have a higher threshold of impression than some. I surely hope the kid improves dramatically and does impress me. Right now had he transferred most fans would have hardly noticed and almost all of those that did would view Uhl's minimal contributions as most easily replaced by one of the three incoming forwards.
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This is my opinion of the Uhl debate:
1. SleepingDog is right - Dom Uhl did not produce at a very high level as a freshman, very pedestrian stats, a few flashes but a few too many mistakes also.
2. RockandRoll is right - McCaffery obviously sees something special because he earned more playing time than would be expected given the upper classmen and veteran roster players at his position.
3. In other words, Dom Uhl exhibited a somewhat predictable, almost typical, freshman year. Some good, some bad. Not overwhelmingly impressive but skilled enough to show he belongs.
Bottom line: I think Uhl has a great opportunity to crack the starting line-up as a sophomore but the competition for that spot will be fierce and he is not going to be handed starter minutes unless he has improved (I'm confident he will be!).
1. SleepingDog is right - Dom Uhl did not produce at a very high level as a freshman, very pedestrian stats, a few flashes but a few too many mistakes also.
2. RockandRoll is right - McCaffery obviously sees something special because he earned more playing time than would be expected given the upper classmen and veteran roster players at his position.
3. In other words, Dom Uhl exhibited a somewhat predictable, almost typical, freshman year. Some good, some bad. Not overwhelmingly impressive but skilled enough to show he belongs.
Bottom line: I think Uhl has a great opportunity to crack the starting line-up as a sophomore but the competition for that spot will be fierce and he is not going to be handed starter minutes unless he has improved (I'm confident he will be!).
SF-Jarrod Uthoff 6'9" 215lbs Sr. 20
PF-Dale Jones 6'8" 220lbs. Jr. TBA
C-Adam Woodbury 7'1" 245lbs Sr. 34
OG-Peter Jok 6'6" 200lbs. Jr. 3
PG-Mike Gesell 6'2" 190lbs. Sr. 10
I think these guys are going to start. I expect Jones to earn the start over Uhl but it could go the other way. Wagner is a freak athlete who could earn significant playing time as well. This should be a really fun team to watch.
PF-Dale Jones 6'8" 220lbs. Jr. TBA
C-Adam Woodbury 7'1" 245lbs Sr. 34
OG-Peter Jok 6'6" 200lbs. Jr. 3
PG-Mike Gesell 6'2" 190lbs. Sr. 10
I think these guys are going to start. I expect Jones to earn the start over Uhl but it could go the other way. Wagner is a freak athlete who could earn significant playing time as well. This should be a really fun team to watch.
Something I think we'll see this season is that whenever Woodbury is on the bench Uthoff will be on the floor. Not necessarily because of his post presence, but because of his experience and versatility. I think tha adds a lot of flexibility with him on the floor with guys like Wagner and Uhl, not to mention the bevy of wing players in the mix.
Lots of different lineups we could see.
How does Jones start as he is basically the only 5 backup we have for Woody? It's not the starting lineup that really matters anyway, it's who finishes the game that matters.
I believe Fran has multiple line-up options when Woodbury is on the bench so I don't see Jones as the sole back-up for Woodbury. At 6'8, few would consider Jones a back-up for Woodbury per se anyway. More likely is a 3 forward stretch line-up with any combination of Uhl, Uthoff, Wagner, Hutton, Jones, etc. -even Fleming or Baer in a pinch.
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