I disagree - look at Anamosa as an example. The prisoners had the guards smuggling things in for them.
Prison ain't so bad...
- Thread starter Vroom_C14
- Start date
We are trading drug abusers\dealers (those that hurt public) for farmers that were burning their own land. This impacts the prison population, so it is relevant to an extent.
"Today two Oregon ranchers were sentenced to five years in federal prison under terrorism statutes for setting preventative fires on their own land. We are gravely disappointed at this outcome.
Elderly Harney County rancher Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven, a former OFB Board member and Harney County Farm Bureau president, have already served time in federal prison for their mistakes and paid their debt to society for the less-than-140 acres of BLM land that was accidentally impacted by the fires.
This is an example of gross government overreach, and the public should be outraged.
Today’s verdict is also hypocritical given BLM’s own harm to public and private grazing lands, which goes without consequence. It is unjust. OFB worked on this case quietly behind the scenes with BLM through the spring and summer. That diligent diplomatic effort was fruitless.
This prosecution will have a chilling effect across the West among ranchers, foresters, and others who rely on federal allotments and permits. It will harm the positive relationship many ranchers and organizations have worked to forge with the BLM, and undermine the cooperative spirit most ranchers have brought to the bureau in helping the health of the range."
IT IS NOT A TRADE. That is a silly, ignorant, and self-serving way to look at it.
Drug "abusers/dealers" were not released for fun they were released as part of reform of the sentencing guidelines. They would not have been sentenced as long as they were under the new guidelines so it made sense to release them.
Thanks for the link. I'm glad it contained solely a quote from, likely, the attorney for the two guys. I will supply the first one I googled: http://www.capitalpress.com/Oregon/20151007/judge-sends-oregon-ranchers-back-to-prison
Ok, so apparently there is a 5 year minimum for the crime they are convicted of. That seems absurd, again proving how worthless rigid sentencing "guidelines" and minimums are.
The Hammonds were subject to re-sentencing because the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals threw out those original prison terms for igniting fires in 2001 and 2006 as too lenient.
So, because the original judge went against the law they reversed and sent them back for resentencing. That is unfortunate, but is unfortunate under the ridiculous sentencing law. The Judge should have had the ability to use discretion, precisely what I've been arguing in this (another?) thread about hate crimes.
Also, apparently in opposition to the facts you earlier provided, they set these fires specifically on BLM land, and that it wasn't accidental. They were convicted by a jury, disregarding the "accidental" claim.
Aiken said she would use discretion in sentencing the Hammonds if she could, but that wasn’t a possibility given the mandatory minimums and the jury’s decision to convict them of arson.
“These grazing leases don’t give them the exclusive right to use these lands,” Papagni said. “It doesn’t give them the right to burn the property. It’s not theirs.”
Attorneys for the Hammonds did not object to the five-year sentences in light of the 9th Circuit ruling, but asked that they receive credit for time served.
Not exactly the facts that you have claimed. BUT, we should, actually be in agreement on releasing the drug offenders. Mandatory minimums are often absurdly harsh comparative to the crime/rehabilitation....as it is in this case.
That sounds horrible for those ranchers. I don't want to pay 40K a year to keep these people in jail either. But under your plan they would be killed off because now they are criminals after all. Doesn't the fact that relatively decent people get sent to prison mean we should treat them relatively decently when you get behind bars?
BTW, how do drug abusers hurt the public? If public harm is the charge, shouldn't they be in prison for vandalism or theft or some other charge?
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I don't know. I saw a "Dirtiest Jobs" episode where restaurant food was collected for pigs. I doubt it would be safe for humans to eat that slop. Then you're going to have medical and legal issues to deal with because you didn't want to make fresh sammiches. Even a bad man deserves a fresh sammich.
This is the other obvious consideration that people ignore. It isn't healthy to be cooped up, inside a musty cement building with bad food and nutrition. If they get sick, most people agree that they need to be helped, treated, fixed, so it simply costs more money on the medical end of it than it did on the food end of it.
Plus this is supposed to be about rehabilitation for the vast majority. I'm not sure how some of these posters ideas of prison mesh with rehabilitation that works.
Another issue that doesn't make sense in our political world. The team that doesn't trust the government, trusts the criminal justice system very much. You would think if they thought the government was corrupt or foolish, they would acknowledge that the death penalty was full of holes and that prisoners may be deserving of some presumption of being good people trapped by the evil machine. That's not the case. For some reason, authority from the criminal justice system is immune to their general lack of faith in all other facets of government
And you'd be correct it not being the case nationally. Iowa is a leader in that department. We have a pretty low recidivism rate nationally and have pretty humane prisons.
You see the "punishment" attitude in some of the old guys that have been there for decades. They need to leave ASAP. The younger people are coming into the system with the change in program and attitude and are trained that way from the start.
There are a few good guys that have made poor decisions walking the halls of IMCC.
This is an EXCELLENT point. The punishment came with the jury and the judge. We, as corrections, are care takers whether people want to accept that or not. None of the disciplines employed at the DOC is there to "kick ass and take names", doesn't work that way.
theIowaHawk's point in the second paragraph is spot-on. You can't put a bunch of undisciplined guys in an environment with no releases. Would any of us survive very long if we went to work, came home, went to bed, woke up and did it all over again with no stress release? Why should we think they are any different? As a matter of fact, I'd argue they probably need it more. Encouraging a pro-social environment to train these guys how to behave and fill their time with productive activities is the key to fewer crimes and fewer victims once they get out. This is what we're trying to accomplish at the DOC.
Locking them up and throwing away the key in antiquated thinking and counter-productive. You're going to have injured staff and injured inmates on a daily basis. You RELLY don't want this. It would cause law suits which use tax-payer funds and clog the courts.
Again…….not a CO. I'll throw you a bone though, I was once a CO (about 8 years ago) but was promoted to a staff position that doesn't wear a uniform. I do have a lot of respect for MOST of those guys, because some of them work really well with the mental health guys and make a huge difference in their lives while housed there.
That's going to happen when you have a population of 1200. Can't stop everything and there's always a bad apple in the bunch. That doesn't mean the prisoners run the prison. A highly inaccurate system. Most of the inmates from Illinois that have a history of prison time, HATE Iowa because we don't let them get away a lot of crap. They always want to go back to Illinois because that's what it's like there, not here.
I worked at Anamosa for four years, by the way, so I know what I'm talking about. Still have friends up there and it hasn't changed much with that particular population.
DOC has a vibrant donation program with local stores and businesses. We regularly get food from Olive Garden, food distributors and other businesses. Taco Bell is a big one too. Some of the stuff is pretty good. We also grow our own food on a six acre farm in back of IMCC and use that to supplement their diet as well as teach them gardening and farming skills. The seeds from the summer crops are cultivated in a green house during the winter and planted in the spring.
This is lost on morons. So. I guess what I'm saying is this is lost on Vroom. Good luck getting anyone to recognize such a simple concept.
Didn't mean to belittle if that's how you took it, I just presume you'd get murdered in a prison revolt.
LOL. Maybe you'll believe this or maybe you won't, but I actually have a pretty good rapport with MOST of the inmates. Some don't like me, but that's expected. I try pretty hard to gain their respect and in doing so, I believe I earn a little in return. I don't treat them like inmates, I treat them like men.
Funny prison story, I've asked my workers if it ever came to a prison riot, would they protect me so I don't "get it". Of course I ask them this in jest and they answer, usually, that they would. All of them sarcastically answered "yes". It tends to lighten the mood around the place.
But I really believe they would. There's reward in cutting some time from an inmate's sentence that steps in to help out a staff member. It varies based on time left, severity of the attack, and amount of help offered/given.
Actually during a prison riot, there are quite a few good places in IMCC to barricade yourself behind and wait for help to arrive. Short term, they win, long term, we win.
Because this seems to now be an ask a prison guy anything thread I have a question. How do you handle urges in prison? If guys want to hit it, can they get condoms? Are conjugals still a thing? Do they have to sneak to jerk off?
I am truly disheartened by your implication.
Childish actions by a child - my condolences to your family.
IMCC do you think the homeless and poors should then be (at a minimum) afforded the same basics that the prisoners are? Food, clothing, beds, roof, restrooms, etc?
How do we make prison a place people DON'T want to go to or return to? As I mentioned before, there are several that commit crimes just to get back in.
It has nothing to do with prison. It has everything to do with people's attitudes and their environment. Some people will do it simply because they think it's a good idea. Simple as that.
Do you think if prison were "tougher" say - less choices on what they eat, fewer cable TV channels for examples that they wouldn't try to get back in?
Not being a smart ass, really looking for solutions. I have 2 good friends that work at Coralville, they are as you said "cordial" to the inmates, but they do see the same ones (some their entire careers, over and over).
Wait, you think people want to go/return to prison? Even with all of these "amenities"?
So curious. OK, one at a time…urges in prison are not tolerated, however, some get away with it while most don't. Through classification and scoring based on several tests and observations, we do our best to keep guys apart from each other that will try and satisfy their urges together. Reason being, it causes a huge disturbance in a confined space (prison) where feelings and lack of impulse control can result in people getting hurt or taken advantage of in bad ways.
No condoms allowed. There is a federal law passed under Bush called PREA or Prison Rape Elimination Act. Any sexual encounter between inmates or inmate/staff is investigated under this law. Not good if it falls within the guidelines. Because of this, we are extra vigilant of any type of sex act committed by another person. Like I said before, if it does happen, then both parties are investigated thoroughly. Results usually are both individuals are locked up and separated until a determination can be made what happened. Sometimes one party gets transferred other times both stay but are kept separated from then until the time they transfer or leave. If staff commits it, they are locked out of the institution, investigated and usually fired. It happens, but on rare occasions. People are human after all.
Conjugals. No such thing in the Iowa system.
It's an open secret as far as masturbation. It happens, everyone knows it happens, just don't get caught doing it. There are a couple of notorious inmates that do it while staring down staff and they get locked up for sexual misconduct. Others simply get caught during a room inspection and are told to put it away. No harm, no foul.
It's a good question. We have 31 cable channels at IMCC. I don't think that's too much. Just as long as we can watch the Iowa games and a couple of good series, it's all good. They have a gym with aerobic equipment and machines (no free weights) and can play basketball, pickle ball, volleyball, etc. They can paint and do other types of activities, participate in a choir, play instruments, go to the library, attend church services (any state-sanctioned religion) or hang out and watch TV. Card games and dominoes are big. Most have jobs and many occupy their time reading books.
If they didn't have any of those things to do, they'd be thinking of ways to hurt people or themselves.
It really starts with being a good role model and simply talking to these guys. A huge number of them have never had a solid family background and are exposed to structure and healthy ways to live their lives by going to prison. Sad really, but it's a start for a lot of them.
Don't get me wrong now, there are plenty of assholes working the system but a majority of them are followers and not leaders. They got themselves into prison simply lacking the ability to say "no".
Yes there are those that commit crimes to get back into prison.
The number of inmates returning to state prisons within three years of release has remained steady for more than a decade, a strong indicator that prison systems are failing to deter criminals from re-offending, a new study has concluded.
In one of the most comprehensive reports of its kind, the Pew Center on the States found that slightly more than four in 10 offenders return to prison within three years, a collective rate that has remained largely unchanged in years, despite huge increases in prison spending that now costs states $52 billion annually.
National recidivism, or return, rates are holding steady even as state officials have launched programs to help prisoners re-enter society and as the recent financial crisis has forced states to cut their budgets and re-evaluate the types of offenders who should return to prison.
“The system designed to deter (inmates) from continued criminal behavior clearly is falling short,” according to the study by Pew’s Public Safety Performance Project, an arm of the non-profit’s public policy analysis group. “That is an unhappy reality, not just for offenders but for the safety of American communities.”
The group analyzed full or partial data provided by 41 states for inmates released in 1999 and for prisoners leaving in 2004. By 2002, slightly more than 45% in the first wave of releases returned to prison. In 2007, about 43% of the second group returned.
Of the 33 states that provided data for both periods, 15 reported recidivism rates had increased by as much as 30% by 2007. Among them:
•In South Dakota, the return rate rose 35% in 2007.
•Washington state reported a 31% jump during the same period.
•Minnesota’s rate increased 11%, and by 2007 the state posted the highest prisoner return rate of all participating states at 61.2%.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-04-12-Prison-recidivism-rates-hold-steady.htm
I have no problem with the staffers watching cable TV. Are the prisoners allowed to watch violent shows (Criminal Minds for example)? I am all for helping them to lead a "normal" life, but at the same time when you have repeat offenders there comes a time to say enough is enough. YOu can lead a horse to water...
Is porn allowed?
I tell you this could be my new cause celebre. Seems inhuman to force celibacy on a guy for multiple years. My religion mandates i make offerings to the gods. Really offering a porn room would be a great way to keep prison safe and orderly for all. You should suggest one. I would donate porn.
Anything broadcast on TV is ok. What they don't get to watch is movies played on the CCTV system. PG-13 and below only. No "R" rated movies whatsoever unless approved by the warden. An example would be, Saving Private Ryan on Veteran's day.
Porn magazines are allowed. I believe only Playboy. They have to check out their own magazine they have ordered and read it in a special room.
No donations from private individuals allowed either. There are certain distributors of books, magazines, and CDs approved by the state they can order from. This way it's controlled and we know where it's coming from.
Thanks for offering though.
So you already have a porn room. Can they bring lotion and kleenex in there? What about Playgirl? Are you switching to Penthouse now that Playboy is turning into Maxim? You should bid this out, make some money to be Iowa's official porn mag.
Not sure about Playgirl. I'm going to ask today. I'll ask some inmates about proper "procedure" and get back to you. Good questions.
It seems to me that Vroom wants prison to be torture and not a place to reform people who have been convicted of crimes.
That's the attitude that bothers me to the core. Let's do our best to fix the homelessness problem. Let's treat our convicts as human beings. Don't treat our convicts worse, just because homeless currently have a worse life.
If we want to discourage people from going back to prison, we need to give them skills and guidance, instead of making prison miserable. It's 2015.
That's the attitude that bothers me to the core. Let's do our best to fix the homelessness problem. Let's treat our convicts as human beings. Don't treat our convicts worse, just because homeless currently have a worse life.
If we want to discourage people from going back to prison, we need to give them skills and guidance, instead of making prison miserable. It's 2015.
So what if much of the pork isn't being eaten, wouldn't that be waste? I think that was what a prison official said. Oh, well, maybe it can be sent to prison farms and fed to cannibalistic hogs.
