Proposal would eliminate tenure at Nebraska's public colleges, universities.

[RicoSuave102954]

This is tremendous legislation and Iowa should not be far behind in seeking to eliminate tenure at Iowa's public colleges and universities.

In addition to eliminating the system meant to protect academic freedom at centers of higher education, the bill (LB1068) from Sen. Loren Lippincott of Central City would require college and university boards to adopt policies outlining employment agreements and grounds for termination.

The University of Nebraska system, the Nebraska State College System and the six community colleges in Nebraska would be affected by the bill, which also requires boards to establish annual performance evaluations, standards for review and discipline, as well as procedures for dismissal for faculty.

“A very long time ago, it was a necessary thing to protect the free-thinking of academia,” Lippincott said. “Now, it seems like the professors have more of a freedom to express their opinions than do the students and the students are expected to regurgitate what the professor’s ideas are.”

The second-year senator said tenure, in addition to allowing some faculty to work few hours and dictate work to those without tenure, also protected faculty who hold beliefs that “oftentimes (run) counter to the parents of the student, the culture in general and society.”

In an email to all faculty on Monday, the faculty senate presidents said they “had been alerted that there could be similar conversations in Nebraska” regarding the possibility of eliminating tenure like those that had occurred elsewhere in the country last year.

Lippincott, who serves on the budget-writing Appropriations Committee, said the Legislature controls some $600 million of the NU system’s annual budget and could use that authority to bring the public university system in line.

“Since we are invested in the university with money, we should have a say,” he said.

Eliminating tenure would bring back “some degree of accountability” within the system by empowering administrators to fire faculty who are “not pulling their weight” or “operating outside the boundaries of legitimacy,” Lippincott added.

Proposal would eliminate tenure at Nebraska's public colleges, universities

The bill (LB1064) from Sen. Loren Lippincott would eliminate tenure protections for faculty and researchers at the University of Nebraska, state college system, and community colleges.

journalstar.com

 

[Here_4_a_Day]

This is tremendous legislation and Iowa should not be far behind in seeking to eliminate tenure at Iowa's public colleges and universities.

In addition to eliminating the system meant to protect academic freedom at centers of higher education, the bill (LB1068) from Sen. Loren Lippincott of Central City would require college and university boards to adopt policies outlining employment agreements and grounds for termination.

The University of Nebraska system, the Nebraska State College System and the six community colleges in Nebraska would be affected by the bill, which also requires boards to establish annual performance evaluations, standards for review and discipline, as well as procedures for dismissal for faculty.

“A very long time ago, it was a necessary thing to protect the free-thinking of academia,” Lippincott said. “Now, it seems like the professors have more of a freedom to express their opinions than do the students and the students are expected to regurgitate what the professor’s ideas are.”

The second-year senator said tenure, in addition to allowing some faculty to work few hours and dictate work to those without tenure, also protected faculty who hold beliefs that “oftentimes (run) counter to the parents of the student, the culture in general and society.”

In an email to all faculty on Monday, the faculty senate presidents said they “had been alerted that there could be similar conversations in Nebraska” regarding the possibility of eliminating tenure like those that had occurred elsewhere in the country last year.

Lippincott, who serves on the budget-writing Appropriations Committee, said the Legislature controls some $600 million of the NU system’s annual budget and could use that authority to bring the public university system in line.

“Since we are invested in the university with money, we should have a say,” he said.

Eliminating tenure would bring back “some degree of accountability” within the system by empowering administrators to fire faculty who are “not pulling their weight” or “operating outside the boundaries of legitimacy,” Lippincott added.

Proposal would eliminate tenure at Nebraska's public colleges, universities

The bill (LB1064) from Sen. Loren Lippincott would eliminate tenure protections for faculty and researchers at the University of Nebraska, state college system, and community colleges.

journalstar.com

1/2 the phucking quacks on this board would be out of a job..........

 

[HawkMD]

Eliminating tenure will make it even harder to recruit quality educators to Nebraska universities.

 

[SocraticIshmael]

OP showing his distaste for the educated. No surprise. His insecurity is showing again.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Eliminating tenure will make it even harder to recruit quality educators to Nebraska universities.

Actually, a quality educator would have little to fear.

It's the worthless ones that hide behind tenure which is why the necessity of this legislation came about.

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

Actually, a quality educator would have little to fear.

It's the worthless ones that hide behind tenure which is why the necessity of this legislation came about.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

This is tremendous legislation and Iowa should not be far behind in seeking to eliminate tenure at Iowa's public colleges and universities.

In addition to eliminating the system meant to protect academic freedom at centers of higher education, the bill (LB1068) from Sen. Loren Lippincott of Central City would require college and university boards to adopt policies outlining employment agreements and grounds for termination.

The University of Nebraska system, the Nebraska State College System and the six community colleges in Nebraska would be affected by the bill, which also requires boards to establish annual performance evaluations, standards for review and discipline, as well as procedures for dismissal for faculty.

“A very long time ago, it was a necessary thing to protect the free-thinking of academia,” Lippincott said. “Now, it seems like the professors have more of a freedom to express their opinions than do the students and the students are expected to regurgitate what the professor’s ideas are.”

The second-year senator said tenure, in addition to allowing some faculty to work few hours and dictate work to those without tenure, also protected faculty who hold beliefs that “oftentimes (run) counter to the parents of the student, the culture in general and society.”

In an email to all faculty on Monday, the faculty senate presidents said they “had been alerted that there could be similar conversations in Nebraska” regarding the possibility of eliminating tenure like those that had occurred elsewhere in the country last year.

Lippincott, who serves on the budget-writing Appropriations Committee, said the Legislature controls some $600 million of the NU system’s annual budget and could use that authority to bring the public university system in line.

“Since we are invested in the university with money, we should have a say,” he said.

Eliminating tenure would bring back “some degree of accountability” within the system by empowering administrators to fire faculty who are “not pulling their weight” or “operating outside the boundaries of legitimacy,” Lippincott added.

Proposal would eliminate tenure at Nebraska's public colleges, universities

The bill (LB1064) from Sen. Loren Lippincott would eliminate tenure protections for faculty and researchers at the University of Nebraska, state college system, and community colleges.

journalstar.com

Conservatives used to be big fans of the free market.

Now imagine in the free market for labor someone has two job offers at say The University of Colorado and The University of Nebraska. The pay is the same, the prestige is comparable, etc. But one job offers you a tenure track and the other does not. All else being equal, if you had your choice which job are you picking?

Of course people are going to choose the one with more upside. That’s the free market for labor at work. The people who will end up in Nebraska are the ones that lost out on the gigs with better benefits. In other words, the best professors will go to places with the best jobs.

This is not rocket science, it is basic capitalism. The fact you numb nuts don’t realize this says a lot about who is left in a party that used to be pro-capitalism. The brain drain in the GOP is complete.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Conservatives used to be big fans of the free market.

Now imagine in the free market for labor someone has two job offers at say The University of Colorado and The University of Nebraska. The pay is the same, the prestige is comparable, etc. But one job offers you a tenure track and the other does not. All else being equal, if you had your choice which job are you picking?

Of course people are going to choose the one with more upside. That’s the free market for labor at work. The people who will end up in Nebraska are the ones that lost out on the gigs with better benefits. In other words, the best professors will go to places with the best jobs.

This is not rocket science, it is basic capitalism. The fact you numb nuts don’t realize this says a lot about who is left in a party that used to be pro-capitalism. The brain drain in the GOP is complete.

However, in many cases a professor might not plan on staying at a particular college for 30 years so in that situation tenure is not a dealbreaker.

 

[abby97]

Eliminating tenure will make it even harder to recruit quality educators to Nebraska universities.

Only for those profs that are lazy, bad or/and know their beliefs are contrary to societal norms and don't want to be held accountable.

 

[abby97]

Conservatives used to be big fans of the free market.

Now imagine in the free market for labor someone has two job offers at say The University of Colorado and The University of Nebraska. The pay is the same, the prestige is comparable, etc. But one job offers you a tenure track and the other does not. All else being equal, if you had your choice which job are you picking?

Of course people are going to choose the one with more upside. That’s the free market for labor at work. The people who will end up in Nebraska are the ones that lost out on the gigs with better benefits. In other words, the best professors will go to places with the best jobs.

This is not rocket science, it is basic capitalism. The fact you numb nuts don’t realize this says a lot about who is left in a party that used to be pro-capitalism. The brain drain in the GOP is complete.

In your little mind a job where you can't be fired is an example of capitalism?

 

[SocraticIshmael]

In your little mind a job where you can't be fired is an example of capitalism?

Someone doesn't understand tenure.

No surprise. You'd have to be familiar with education beyond a G.E.D.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Someone doesn't understand tenure.

No surprise. You'd have to be familiar with education beyond a G.E.D.

Sounds like you would be one of those who would like to hide behind tenure right little boy?

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

In your little mind a job where you can't be fired is an example of capitalism?

I’m not surprised the nuances of the market for talent are lost on you. You would need to have at least a modicum of it in the first place to comprehend how insanely stupid it is to try to lure talent without the benefits offered by your competition.

 

[abby97]

I’m not surprised the nuances of the market for talent are lost on you. You would need to have at least a modicum of it in the first place to comprehend how insanely stupid it is to try to lure talent without the benefits offered by your competition.

So pay them more making them fully aware that they may be paid well but will be judged for their performance and outcomes. The days of protecting profs to allow them to speak freely on controversial issues or to engage students in unconventional ways to promote critical thinking, are long gone. Profs today are nothing more than homogeneous mouthpieces for the anti-American far left. The percentage of profs on the right is infinitesimal and unfortunately, university administrations make sure that disparity is maintained.

I don't know what you do, but are you guaranteed your job even if you don't perform?

 

[joelbc1]

In your little mind a job where you can't be fired is an example of capitalism?

What would you fired for? Not holding to the “company line”? Not teaching what polls say you should teach? Could you get fired for teaching “truth”? Who makes these decisions? politicians? Intellectual rivals?

 

[theiacowtipper]

Only for those profs that are lazy, bad or/and know their beliefs are contrary to societal norms and don't want to be held accountable.

OMG. Do you really believe that college professors, for the most part, teach “their beliefs” or do you think they adhere to a academic curriculum?

What does societal norms have to do with academia anyway? Nebraska voted Trump in 2020 by nearly 20 points. 70% of Republicans believe that the election of Joe Biden was illegitimate. So a significant part of society in that state believes an absolute falsehood. Should academia in Nebraska be required to teach that falsehood? Should Republican officeholders be able to fire an educator in that state because they refuse to teach that falsehood? That’s what eliminating tenure would do.

 

[theiacowtipper]

So pay them more making them fully aware that they may be paid well but will be judged for their performance and outcomes. The days of protecting profs to allow them to speak freely on controversial issues or to engage students in unconventional ways to promote critical thinking, are long gone. Profs today are nothing more than homogeneous mouthpieces for the anti-American far left. The percentage of profs on the right is infinitesimal and unfortunately, university administrations make sure that disparity is maintained.

I don't know what you do, but are you guaranteed your job even if you don't perform?

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. This post is loaded with inane babble that bares no relation to truth. I teach at a college. I would wager that the political affiliation of faculty is pretty close to the affiliation of the state of Iowa. It might slightly lean democratic but only because college graduates lean democratic.

The percentage of right leaning professors are not infinitesimal in any way shape or form. The county chair of the Republican Party here is a college professor for goodness sakes.

 

[BioHawk]

Only for those profs that are lazy, bad or/and know their beliefs are contrary to societal norms and don't want to be held accountable.

Define "contrary to societal norms" please.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

It doesn't sound to me that the legislature is concerned about the "quality" of teachers.

“A very long time ago, it was a necessary thing to protect the free-thinking of academia,” Lippincott said. “Now, it seems like the professors have more of a freedom to express their opinions than do the students and the students are expected to regurgitate what the professor’s ideas are."

The second-year senator said tenure, in addition to allowing some faculty to work few hours and dictate work to those without tenure, also protected faculty who hold beliefs that “oftentimes (run) counter to the parents of the student, the culture in general and society.”

It's censorship. They want to be able to control the opinions of professors and have and easy path to termination when they say something they disagree with.

 

[BustingNarratives]

The world would be a better place if we eliminated tenure … and had term limits for all political positions.

 

[BioHawk]

The world would be a better place if we eliminated tenure … and had term limits for all political positions.

No it wouldn't. While term limits for some positions would be best (like Supreme Court positions) we need experienced politicians to get anything done and to be able to negotiate with other countries. Since politicians have elections regularly, at least in theory there is an opportunity to remove them. I could get behind age limits though.

As for tenure, you all seem to think that is something different than what it is. It protects teachers from being fired because they teach evolution or something, it doesn't protect them if they aren't doing their job. Or maybe that's why you hate it so much.

 

[Aardvark86]

As an old timer who believes that structural principles matter and that medieval/renaissance/enlightment thinkers actually were pretty good at identifying what was important and ways to preserve it, it makes me sad to see these sorts of proposals. There is still a place in our society for the academy, and it's important that it be given its chance to flourish.

That said:
1. Given the proliferation of higher educational institutions of many varieties (online, public, private), I do wonder whether, if we were starting from scatch today, we'd have a tenure system. And even beyond that, the society is otherwise as free as it's ever been in terms of the ability to investigate and communicate ideas without regard to universities.
2. Like many things in life, it's the abuse of a good thing that is often its undoing. Say what you will about left/right, but there are plenty of tenured professors who have abused it in their continuing academic exercises, simple sloth, and the way they treat students.
3. A econ ph.d. buddy once told me about an econ department that was seriously flagging from its glory days at a major university. The school brought in a big name to reenergize the program, and apparently part of his solution was to reorganize the department as a separate entity/school, which essentially eliminated existing faculty tenure. Some got fired, and outsiders who were otherwise reluctant to consider teaching there were brought in. The program was significantly revitalized. In short, it worked.

 

[abby97]

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. This post is loaded with inane babble that bares no relation to truth. I teach at a college. I would wager that the political affiliation of faculty is pretty close to the affiliation of the state of Iowa. It might slightly lean democratic but only because college graduates lean democratic.

The percentage of right leaning professors are not infinitesimal in any way shape or form. The county chair of the Republican Party here is a college professor for goodness sakes.

I have no idea the actual breakdown of conservative to liberal profs at your institution. However, for you to say statistically the numbers "slightly lean democratic" is pure sophistry. See just a sampling of statistics of the political leanings of professors nationally, and at some of our more prestigious institutions.

"In the United States, registered Democrats and Republicans are roughly equal, but an examination of over 150 departments and upper-level administrations at 32 elite colleges by the Center for the Study of Popular Culture found that nationally the ratio of registered Democrats to registered Republicans was more than 10 to 1 (1,397 Democrats compared to 134 Republicans). Not a single department at any of the 32 schools even remotely approached parity." Jerry Bergman Ph.D. Montpelier, Ohio
______________________________________________

More than 80 percent of Harvard faculty respondents characterized their political leanings as “liberal” or “very liberal,” according to The Crimson’s annual survey of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences in April.

A little over 37 percent of faculty respondents identified as “very liberal”— a nearly 8 percent jump from last year. Only 1 percent of respondents stated they are “conservative,” and no respondents identified as “very conservative.” By Meimei Xu, Crimson Staff Writer

 

[Aardvark86]

Conservatives used to be big fans of the free market.

Now imagine in the free market for labor someone has two job offers at say The University of Colorado and The University of Nebraska. The pay is the same, the prestige is comparable, etc. But one job offers you a tenure track and the other does not. All else being equal, if you had your choice which job are you picking?

Of course people are going to choose the one with more upside. That’s the free market for labor at work. The people who will end up in Nebraska are the ones that lost out on the gigs with better benefits. In other words, the best professors will go to places with the best jobs.

This is not rocket science, it is basic capitalism. The fact you numb nuts don’t realize this says a lot about who is left in a party that used to be pro-capitalism. The brain drain in the GOP is complete.

While i certainly agree with the point you're making, to be clear, unlike modern health insurance, tenure did not develop as a non cash employee benefit.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

Conservatives used to be big fans of the free market.

Now imagine in the free market for labor someone has two job offers at say The University of Colorado and The University of Nebraska. The pay is the same, the prestige is comparable, etc. But one job offers you a tenure track and the other does not. All else being equal, if you had your choice which job are you picking?

Of course people are going to choose the one with more upside. That’s the free market for labor at work. The people who will end up in Nebraska are the ones that lost out on the gigs with better benefits. In other words, the best professors will go to places with the best jobs.

This is not rocket science, it is basic capitalism. The fact you numb nuts don’t realize this says a lot about who is left in a party that used to be pro-capitalism. The brain drain in the GOP is complete.

Flip the coin. One public university passes it, other states will take notice evaluate and follow suit. Then another and another until tenure is no longer the norm in public higher-ed. I guarantee you Nebraska is not the only state interested in this. Someone has to go first.

 

[Aardvark86]

Flip the coin. One public university passes it, other states will take notice evaluate and follow suit. Then another and another until tenure is no longer the norm in public higher-ed. I guarantee you Nebraska is not the only state interested in this. Someone has to go first.

yeah, i could sort of see something like this shaking out along a public/private line. The draw of a public could effectively become public resources, and in particular federal grant money arising from their simply superior infrastructure to do federal research.

 

[GOHOX69]

Numerous highly ranked schools do not have tenure.

Hopkins med, where I went, doesn't. See here:

The word “tenure” is not part of the lexicon of the school of medicine. Newly promoted or appointed full-time professors will normally be given a contract to retirement, following approval by the board of trustees. In exceptional circumstances, individuals whose promotion to professor is unlikely to occur but who have proved to be of tremendous value to the school of medicine can be given a contract “to retirement” at the associate professor level.​

Professorial Promotion Process FAQs

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

 

[luvmyhawks]

Lots of faux outrage in here.

 

[theiacowtipper]

I have no idea the actual breakdown of conservative to liberal profs at your institution. However, for you to say statistically the numbers "slightly lean democratic" is pure sophistry. See just a sampling of statistics of the political leanings of professors nationally, and at some of our more prestigious institutions.

"In the United States, registered Democrats and Republicans are roughly equal, but an examination of over 150 departments and upper-level administrations at 32 elite colleges by the Center for the Study of Popular Culture found that nationally the ratio of registered Democrats to registered Republicans was more than 10 to 1 (1,397 Democrats compared to 134 Republicans). Not a single department at any of the 32 schools even remotely approached parity." Jerry Bergman Ph.D. Montpelier, Ohio
______________________________________________

More than 80 percent of Harvard faculty respondents characterized their political leanings as “liberal” or “very liberal,” according to The Crimson’s annual survey of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences in April.

A little over 37 percent of faculty respondents identified as “very liberal”— a nearly 8 percent jump from last year. Only 1 percent of respondents stated they are “conservative,” and no respondents identified as “very conservative.” By Meimei Xu, Crimson Staff Writer

You’ve cherry picked certain colleges that fit your point. The elite colleges lean liberal. I don’t know but iowa state, For instance probably doesn’t. the study you cite here doesn’t reflect anything "nationally" it reflects the leanings of a couple of institutions that aren’t emblematic of the nation as a whole.

 

[AuroraHawk]

Flip the coin. One public university passes it, other states will take notice evaluate and follow suit. Then another and another until tenure is no longer the norm in public higher-ed. I guarantee you Nebraska is not the only state interested in this. Someone has to go first.

How'd it go when certain members of the Iowa legislature ran it up the flagpole?

 

[RicoSuave102954]

OMG. Do you really believe that college professors, for the most part, teach “their beliefs” or do you think they adhere to a academic curriculum?

What does societal norms have to do with academia anyway? Nebraska voted Trump in 2020 by nearly 20 points. 70% of Republicans believe that the election of Joe Biden was illegitimate. So a significant part of society in that state believes an absolute falsehood. Should academia in Nebraska be required to teach that falsehood? Should Republican officeholders be able to fire an educator in that state because they refuse to teach that falsehood? That’s what eliminating tenure would do.

Classic example of the paranoia that permeates throughout the liberal democratic party.

 

[abby97]

You’ve cherry picked certain colleges that fit your point. The elite colleges lean liberal. I don’t know but iowa state, For instance probably doesn’t. the study you cite here doesn’t reflect anything "nationally" it reflects the leanings of a couple of institutions that aren’t emblematic of the nation as a whole.

Wrong, I only cherry picked Harvard because it is the preeminent college in America. The other article (which I provided proper credit and attribution for by the way, "calling C. Gay!") you may notice surveyed 37 institutions, not exactly cherry picking and to disagree with the statement most colleges are vastly liberal is both dishonest and silly.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

I've recently contacted my state representatives asking them to support similar legislation here in Iowa. This would be another historic win for education in Iowa.

I urge you to do the same!

 

[theiacowtipper]

Classic example of the paranoia that permeates throughout the liberal democratic party.

Lololol. I’m paranoid. You’re making baseless accusations that there’s a vast widespread conspiracy in which liberal professors are indoctrinating students and I’m paranoid. Let me ask you this. You’d have to agree there are some conservative professors right? Do they indoctrinate students as well?

 

[AuroraHawk]

Lololol. I’m paranoid. You’re making baseless accusations that there’s a vast widespread conspiracy in which liberal professors are indoctrinating students and I’m paranoid. Let me ask you this. You’d have to agree there are some conservative professors right? Do they indoctrinate students as well?

P-r-o-j-e-c-t-i-o-n.
Every single time.

 

[theiacowtipper]

Wrong, I only cherry picked Harvard because it is the preeminent college in America. The other article (which I provided proper credit and attribution for by the way, "calling C. Gay!") you may notice surveyed 37 institutions, not exactly cherry picking and to disagree with the statement most colleges are vastly liberal is both dishonest and silly.

32 elite colleges. That is not a significant sample size. There are almost 4,000 colleges and universities in America. And you admit you have no idea which way my college leans politically but you say there’s no way it slightly leans left. How do you know?