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Racist infrastructure bill is racist...

Not going to die on a hill of "sued". No. I will not take that bet, it will not come into existence and will get ransacked in court. Fair win.

Ok then. I’ll bet you any amount that you want that if this is passed it will not “get ransacked in court”, as you claim. Do you stand by your latest statement and accept the bet or are you just saying stupid shit that even you don’t believe?

@Whiskeydeltadeltatango
 
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O well I have ****ing read that much, that's what you were touting? I thought you had read the whole ****ing bill.
Oh my god you are so full of shit. I'm out, man. I made it clear from the beginning what I read, clear as day. You're inventing your reality as you go as you see fit, just like the previous back-and-forth we had.

There is no mistaking what I read. None. You lying-ass coward.

If you can't be honest then this really is frustrating. Fück me, I gave you waaaaaaaaaaaay too much benefit of the doubt.

Have a great day, bud.
 
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My very wealthy friend in New Jersey saw this coming down the line. He has started a few health care providing companies and has given 51% of ownership to African American women he has worked with and trusts, knowing he will be getting the inside track on all government contracts. Knowing him, he will probably jump into the energy game and do the same thing.
This.

Smart white people will just shift ownership and controlling interests into the name of a minority person. Then business as usual and time to get some of that gubment dolla dolla billz y’all!!!!

Actual minorities will barely benefit.

Government doing business as usual. It’s not about benefitting minorities. It is about overpaying large sums of your tax dollars to the same old crony businesses. Nothing has changed.

We get the government we deserve.
 
Lol. I read the section that the article provided by OP is referencing in its silly diatribe. I suppose you think I need to read the entire 2700 pages to address the dumbass article? Lol. Dude who can't find the damn thing is laughing at me for, 1) actually reading the relevant part, and 2) being ƒucking transparent and honest in that this is all I read thus far, and 3) demonstrating the willingness to learn more about the ƒucking program the bill references as part of this relevant section.

Can't make this shit up. Am I supposed to take you seriously? At all?

Here we are how many posts later and just now you're like, huh, maybe I'll check out the bill itself rather than rant and piss and moan based on some NY freaking Post op ed. Amazing.

And you can't find the bill? Weird. It came up in my first search. Second option was a CNBC.com article so I decided to click on that, curious if, unlike this great NY Post op ed, the actual bill might be linked. And sure as shit the first mention of the bill linked directly to the damn bill.

Here, pisspants: https://www.epw.senate.gov/public/_...F8A7C77D69BE09151F210EB4DFE872CD.edw21a09.pdf
Page 42 through 55 is what you are going to want to.read and after reading said section. L oh ****ing L at this bullshit pandering.
 
My very wealthy friend in New Jersey saw this coming down the line. He has started a few health care providing companies and has given 51% of ownership to African American women he has worked with and trusts, knowing he will be getting the inside track on all government contracts. Knowing him, he will probably jump into the energy game and do the same thing.
My buddy just did the same with his environmental engineering company also in NJ. He is giving 51% to a white woman that worked for him for the past 5 years. He did so so he can land jobs where women owners get priority when gov't contracts are awarded. It seems a bit risky to me, but he's stated that he believes the pros far outweigh the cons.
 
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This.

Smart white people will just shift ownership and controlling interests into the name of a minority person. Then business as usual and time to get some of that gubment dolla dolla billz y’all!!!!

Actual minorities will barely benefit.

Government doing business as usual. It’s not about benefitting minorities. It is about overpaying large sums of your tax dollars to the same old crony businesses. Nothing has changed.

We get the government we deserve.

Ok then. I’ll bet you any amount that you want that if this is passed it will not “get ransacked in court”, as you claim. Do you stand by your latest statement and accept the bet or are you just saying stupid shit that even you don’t believe?

@Whiskeydeltadeltatango
O I'll bet it gets ransacked in court, you realize that one person proving this is bullshit and they have been wrong done by regarding this is it getting its ass kicked right? (Just like the farming bill)
 
The infrastructure bill the Senate passed Tuesday discriminates against white people at every turn.

Americans are enthusiastic about spending money on physical infrastructure — bridges, roads, broadband. But this racist bill hands out jobs and contracts and locates projects based on race, not merit. Minority businesses and neighborhoods hold the inside track. If you’re white, you’re low-priority.

The bill includes grants to install solar or wind technologies and generate jobs in areas decimated by closing coal mines or coal-fired electric plants. Here’s the catch: When contractors bid, the bill says minority-owned businesses will get selected first. Bad news for small-time white contractors in depressed areas.

The same is true for the bill’s proposals to improve traffic patterns in cities. Contractors and subcontractors get priority only if they’re owned by minorities or women. White male business owners can take a hike.

Americans should be outraged — but not surprised. After all, President Biden’s American Rescue Plan Act, passed in March, also put into place an ugly system of discrimination against whites. It offered debt relief to black farmers, but not white farmers. Another provision offered billions in aid to minority-owned and women-owned restaurants, but told struggling restaurants owners who happened to be white men that they had to go to the back of the line.

The injustice was obvious. White male farmers and restaurant owners sued, claiming the anti-white provisions are unconstitutional. So far, these challengers are winning. In every case, federal judges have halted the race-based programs in the American Rescue Plan Act until the challengers have their day in court. Politico reported last week that Biden’s Justice Department may fold without a fight on the black-farmer debt relief cases, because the law isn’t on the administration’s side.

You would think Democrats and the Biden White House would get the message. Instead, they’re doubling down on rigging legislation and divvying up taxpayer dollars to benefit minorities and shortchange whites.

Chances are high the infrastructure bill’s hodgepodge of anti-white discrimination will be struck down by federal courts. In 1989, the Supreme Court ruled that the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution bars government from trying to even the score by discriminating against whites and in favor of minorities. The justices warned against creating “a patchwork of racial preferences based on statistical generalizations” to correct past injustices. That’s precisely what this infrastructure bill does.

The bill’s backers would have you believe that obsolete airports, dilapidated public works and deteriorating roads and public spaces are evidence of racial injustice. Rep. Yvette Clarke (D-NY) rails that “our infrastructure is racist” and calls on the Congress to pass a bill that “puts the needs of underserved and disadvantaged communities at the fore.”

That’s code for minority communities. But the truth is, there are plenty of poor white people in this country, too, and poor, predominantly white communities that could benefit from a bold federal infrastructure initiative. Race and ethnicity should have nothing to do with it. Locate the projects and put the funds where the economic need is greatest, regardless of race.

West Virginia has the lowest average income in the nation and ranks 46th in internet connectivity. Maine ranks 36th out of 50 states for income, and 34th in broadband connectivity. People in these states could really benefit from federal broadband assistance. Here’s the hitch: The infrastructure bill tilts the grant scale in favor of states with high minority and non-English-speaking populations, instead of considering only economic need and existing broadband capacity. Because Maine and West Virginia are 94 percent white, they’ll get less.

Polls show that Americans favor fixing roads, bridges, tunnels and airports. They know that good infrastructure promotes economic growth. But they’ve been kept in the dark about the fine print in the bill. Under the guise of upgrading the nation, the bill unfairly treats whites like second-class citizens.

Betsy McCaughey is a former lieutenant governor of New York.

Its 25% for actual infrastructure the rest is pure PORK!!
 
I love posts like this. It just means I have the free time and I am enjoying the discussion, however perverse the enjoyment might be. Do I seem triggered by how I state my opinions? Or is it simply post frequency that gives you the idea that you are making an objective characterization?

Each of those posts of mine that you included in your sterling offering to this discussion is based in pretty solid and easily-defended criticisms of both the OP's article and his (or others') interpretation and defense of it.

I'll ask you—have you read the bill? OP hasn't, clearly. Nor has the other poster who I've engaged on this.

I'll also ask—these criticisms of the article and its author: Are these not criticisms mirrored, often with good reason, by those with leftism-directed media skepticisms?
Not sure if serious.
 
O I'll bet it gets ransacked in court, you realize that one person proving this is bullshit and they have been wrong done by regarding this is it getting its ass kicked right? (Just like the farming bill)
$1K? (and I have no idea what that botched abortion of a sentence means other than “O (sic) I’ll bet it gets rannsacked in court).
 
My buddy just did the same with his environmental engineering company also in NJ. He is giving 51% to a white woman that worked for him for the past 5 years. H did so so he can land jobs where women owners get priority when gov't contracts are awarded. It seems a bit risky to me, but he's stated that he believes the pros far outweigh the cons.
Why wouldn't you?y
 
And then there will be talk of reperations 100 years later?



At what point does "two wrongs dont make a right" come into play?


This is ****ing stupid.

I get so damn tired of hearing this. Maybe if you looked at dealing with the fallout of our racist govt policies of the past as a duty rather than a "wrong" you could get past it. Trying to fix something that was wrong really and truly doesn't make the fix a wrong.

2 things with this:

You are impacting someone based off another, that person is going to have a victim mentality.


Part of the problem with reperations and why they will never do them is IF you write that check and then the numbers fall back to where they were you actually have to acknowledge the other problems. That ain't happening.

I'm not the victim of shit dipshit. I'm the asshole saying "lets even the playing field" and let everyone make thier own way not "let'stilt it back theother way to make things even for awhile while not acknowledging the new tilt andthe future considerstions"

So how do you level the playing field - that you agree is currently tilted towards one group over others, without then giving minority groups some advantages? Simply ending the advantages awarded to date doesn’t solve anything on its own…the damage has been done. I disagree with onetime, direct reparations because 1) how do you determine who does/does not get that check? And 2) the damage is so pervasive at this point that I do not be
believe that a onetime fix would work.

discrimination and systemic racism was, and to some extent, still is, so deeply embedded that there is no easy fix. I appreciate that you at least concede it’s a problem. Far too many want to just believe that it ended after the Civil Rights Movement and then electing a black president.
 
$1K? (and I have no idea what that botched abortion of a sentence means other than “O (sic) I’ll bet it gets rannsacked in court).
Let's set the parameters here. In order for you to win it needs to pass, it needs to go into existence, it then needs time for a minority to win a contract and then a follow up court hearing would need to be thrown out Correct? Because if any of that doesnt happen then it did in fact get ransacked and laughed away.
 
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If the Census data comes out and white people are in the minority will they rewrite the bill?
 
Oh my god you are so full of shit. I'm out, man. I made it clear from the beginning what I read, clear as day. You're inventing your reality as you go as you see fit, just like the previous back-and-forth we had.

There is no mistaking what I read. None. You lying-ass coward.

If you can't be honest then this really is frustrating. Fück me, I gave you waaaaaaaaaaaay too much benefit of the doubt.

Have a great day, bud.
Page 36 of the document if you are reading on your phone it starts on page 42 of the pdf reader, I'll take the L for not addressing that appropriately. It's the section right above the transportation.
 
So how do you level the playing field - that you agree is currently tilted towards one group over others, without then giving minority groups some advantages? Simply ending the advantages awarded to date doesn’t solve anything on its own…the damage has been done. I disagree with onetime, direct reparations because 1) how do you determine who does/does not get that check? And 2) the damage is so pervasive at this point that I do not be
believe that a onetime fix would work.

discrimination and systemic racism was, and to some extent, still is, so deeply embedded that there is no easy fix. I appreciate that you at least concede it’s a problem. Far too many want to just believe that it ended after the Civil Rights Movement and then electing a black president.
I dont think there is a perfect answer but the best I can come up with is a check. It sounds stupid but it's likegiving someone money for Christmas, they can spend it on what they want. Anything like lower rates on loans will have adverse impact.
 
I personally would never give up control of a company I started, but that's me. I suppose in his mind, if it really doesn't work with her, he can start another corporation and take all of his clients with him.
If my goal is to have my name on the door and tell people I'm a business owner then I keep my name on the door. If my goal is to maximize profits and win bids, my wife can have her name all over the company.
 
I personally would never give up control of a company I started, but that's me. I suppose in his mind, if it really doesn't work with her, he can start another corporation and take all of his clients with him.
If my goal is to have my name on the door and tell people I'm a business owner then I keep my name on the door. If my goal is to maximize profits and win bids, my wife can have her name all over the company.
 
Let's set the parameters here. In order for you to win it needs to pass, it needs to go into existence, it then needs time for a minority to win a contract and then a follow up court hearing would need to be thrown out Correct? Because if any of that doesnt happen then it did in fact get ransacked and laughed away.
“A follow up court hearing would be thrown out” makes no sense. How do you throw out a hearing?

The criteria is simple. If enacted, does the bill get negated by being ruled unconstitutional, or does it not? What other possible outcome could be considered “ransacking”?
 
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Page 36 of the document if you are reading on your phone it starts on page 42 of the pdf reader, I'll take the L for not addressing that appropriately. It's the section right above the transportation.
Oh my god. The document lists its page numbers, and you're mad at me for reading the actual page numbers of the document and giving you shit about it?

Simply unreal.

From the beginning I basically identified the section by mentioning the since-1983 program it references. So all anyone has to do is open the document and do a find… hell, I even gave instructions already.

You're a piece of work.

My main criticism all along was that there was all this commenting, all this super black/white opining, based on a poor offering of op ed journalism (from a person whose credentials suggest we can expect better). Would you agree that this has been my focal contention in this thread?

I'm glad you finally took the time, after an abject lie, to read the section in question. Cool. Now, did you go do any reading on the program it references? If not, fine, no problem.

Would you agree that OP's article is a good example of bad journalism, if for no other reason than that it fails to even bother to link the bill, itself?

Would you agree that an author with credentials like hers could be expected to do better?

Would you agree that it's curious why someone with credentials like hers is moved to write crap like this?

Would you agree that to truly offer a good critical analysis of this part of the bill, one would probably need to address the gist of it, which is, essentially, that although we've made progress in the areas addressed by the program referenced, we still have a ways to go, so we'll keep going (for the time being)? And, as such, really the case to be made is simple: claim that we've made enough progress, define terms, prove against those terms.

All I've really said about the attempt to address racism/discrimination in the manner as described by the bill and the program referenced therein is that its imperfect, and I think I also said complex. I get the angst. It's entirely not ideal. Maybe you'll remember that pages ago I suggested you do the reading of the section in question, read a little about the program it references, and let me know if you've seen better ideas (given your stated interest in some type of repairing the wrongs). Remember that? I do, without even looking.

It's so much work trying to get you to stay on track, to get you to follow my words and thoughts as I say them and express them, rather than what you seem to do, which is interpret them willy-nilly as it suits you, make shit up as necessary.

I think it behooves you to read what I post maybe two or three times before responding. You think I'm defending tooth-and-nail the bill itself. Nope. Pretty damn sure I haven't. Go back and read through my posts again.
 
Oh my god. The document lists its page numbers, and you're mad at me for reading the actual page numbers of the document and giving you shit about it?

Simply unreal.

From the beginning I basically identified the section by mentioning the since-1983 program it references. So all anyone has to do is open the document and do a find… hell, I even gave instructions already.

You're a piece of work.

My main criticism all along was that there was all this commenting, all this super black/white opining, based on a poor offering of op ed journalism (from a person whose credentials suggest we can expect better). Would you agree that this has been my focal contention in this thread?

I'm glad you finally took the time, after an abject lie, to read the section in question. Cool. Now, did you go do any reading on the program it references? If not, fine, no problem.

Would you agree that OP's article is a good example of bad journalism, if for no other reason than that it fails to even bother to link the bill, itself?

Would you agree that an author with credentials like hers could be expected to do better?

Would you agree that it's curious why someone with credentials like hers is moved to write crap like this?

Would you agree that to truly offer a good critical analysis of this part of the bill, one would probably need to address the gist of it, which is, essentially, that although we've made progress in the areas addressed by the program referenced, we still have a ways to go, so we'll keep going (for the time being)? And, as such, really the case to be made is simple: claim that we've made enough progress, define terms, prove against those terms.

All I've really said about the attempt to address racism/discrimination in the manner as described by the bill and the program referenced therein is that its imperfect, and I think I also said complex. I get the angst. It's entirely not ideal. Maybe you'll remember that pages ago I suggested you do the reading of the section in question, read a little about the program it references, and let me know if you've seen better ideas (given your stated interest in some type of repairing the wrongs). Remember that? I do, without even looking.

It's so much work trying to get you to stay on track, to get you to follow my words and thoughts as I say them and express them, rather than what you seem to do, which is interpret them willy-nilly as it suits you, make shit up as necessary.

I think it behooves you to read what I post maybe two or three times before responding. You think I'm defending tooth-and-nail the bill itself. Nope. Pretty damn sure I haven't. Go back and read through my posts again.
I'm not mad at you for shit, quit being s pisspants. I acknowledged where I had made a mistake. ****ing christ Rudy, quit being a bitch.
 
“A follow up court hearing would be thrown out” makes no sense. How do you throw out a hearing?

The criteria is simple. If enacted, does the bill get negated by being ruled unconstitutional, or does it not? What other possible outcome could be considered “ransacking”?
No no no. If it gets enacted and then fights thebattles the farm bill is fighting it will be ransacked. That's ****ing IF it gets there.
 
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O I'll bet it gets ransacked in court, you realize that one person proving this is bullshit and they have been wrong done by regarding this is it getting its ass kicked right? (Just like the farming bill)
So why hasn't the "ransacking" happened yet given this has been in place for a long time?
 
“A follow up court hearing would be thrown out” makes no sense. How do you throw out a hearing?

The criteria is simple. If enacted, does the bill get negated by being ruled unconstitutional, or does it not? What other possible outcome could be considered “ransacking”?
No no no. If it gets enacted and then fights thebattles the farm bill is fighting it will be ransacked. That's ****ing IF it gets there.
 
I dont think there is a perfect answer but the best I can come up with is a check. It sounds stupid but it's likegiving someone money for Christmas, they can spend it on what they want. Anything like lower rates on loans will have adverse impact.

So how do you determine who gets that check and how much that check is? we’re talking about stuff that in one way shape or form has gone on for 200+ years. I just don’t see how a single check evens the playing field. Especially when you’re talking about giving a large sum of money to people who aren’t used to that money. It’s analogous to the poor schmucks who win the lottery and then go bankrupt because they didn’t know how to handle it.
 
So how do you determine who gets that check and how much that check is? we’re talking about stuff that in one way shape or form has gone on for 200+ years. I just don’t see how a single check evens the playing field. Especially when you’re talking about giving a large sum of money to people who aren’t used to that money. It’s analogous to the poor schmucks who win the lottery and then go bankrupt because they didn’t know how to handle it.
You are hitting the nail on the head sir. Not to mention the ugly truth that about 1/5th of the people that would think they were going to get shit would actually get something and the rest would be even further disadvantaged.
 
No no no. If it gets enacted and then fights thebattles the farm bill is fighting it will be ransacked. That's ****ing IF it gets there.

I'm trying to figure out what you guys are arguing about. If I understand correctly, you are making an argument that the law is discriminatory. As such, it's a violation of the constitution. Specifically, it violates the equal protection clause found in the 14th amendment. It is true that the law is discriminatory. However, just because a law is discriminatory does not necessarily mean that it violates the EPC. SCOTUS has created several tests to examine whether the law violates the EPC. From the highest level (strict scrutiny) to the lowest (rational basis). It's kind of a moving target. But when it comes to the federal government dolling out money, SCOTUS will apply the lowest scrutiny test and I am not aware of any federal law that provides for that a certain percentage of the contracts must go to a minority owned business having been overturned by SCOTUS.

If I have not read the room correctly, and you guys are not arguing about this...I apologize and will return to my boring ass work I have this afternoon.
 
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Welcome to the thread.
If you find yourself in tacit agreement with 311, well maybe take a moment to reconsider.

I suggest you read more of the bill. I skimmed all portions in which the word "minority" appears. Much of it is very familiar to me, having been tangentially involved in some of the ideating around this type of shit (worked on an i-team). Now ask yourself after doing that reading if this is, while hardly perfect or without possible shitty consequences, one way to go about addressing issues borne of racist/discriminative policy. This stuff is better than doling out checks, in my opinion.

I also happen to know people that work on developing policy like this. It's not taken lightly, I assure you. There is no "ƒuck white men" ethos in this work.

Look, in past threads about similar shit I've explained that I, as a longtime independent contractor, might lose out to this type of thing, as I am about as white male as it gets. As someone who has witnessed, on many occasions, discrimination and racism aimed at minorities, well, believe it or not, I am prepared to deal with it.
 
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