Why is our fanbase so polarized on this topic? Some accept that a slightly .500 winning seasons is succesful for a sub .500 program since inception. Others demand and expect that iowa compete on a national level more regularly. What defines the two ends of the fanbase spectrum? Why are some content and some dissolutioned?
Reality vs Expectations
- Thread starter General Tso
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Thats an interesting but tough question. At first blush it would seem the dissolutioned may not have been around long enough to see what Iowa football was for most of its history, other then a few years in the thirties and fifties. Since Fry's resurection, and the continued success under KF, it seems to some to be the birthright of Iowa football to win 10 games per year. I wouldn't agree with your statement however that anyone would be satisfied with a slightly 500 record at Iowa. Fry and KF have both won approx 8 wins per season. That may not be 10 wins per year, but it sure isn't an average of around 6 either. I guess you can chalk it up to the glass is half full vs the glass half empty crowd. Same glass, same product, different outlook........
Good question but IMO it's not personal and yet intensely personal all at the same time. See they'll tell you it's about accountability and demanding excellence.
But they don't hold themselves to the same excellence & accountability. We know that, because quite frankly they wouldn't spend a great deal of time on message boards pointing fingers at things completely out of their control. It's really quite useless. Of course you could rightly make the point message board activity is useless in and of itself. But at it's inception it was a place to come and find out about your favorite team and have a little fun. It was never intended to be a place for vitriol and constant complaining. But it has morphed into a sanctuary for people that typically like to complain. Does this mean that they complain about everything in their lives, no not necessarily. But seriously you're going to spend that "useless" time bitching and moaning incessantly, holy crap. It's not a big leap to naturally assume when it comes to sports in particular they like to tell everyone they know how dumb the coach is.
The reason I say it's not personal. i.e.: about Iowa, or more rightly said about Iowa alone. You'd likely find their critical of all the sports teams they call their own. I would also guess they regularly complain about the coaches of their kids teams. Go sit in the stands at a high school football game sometime. Or basketball or soccer. They are brutal. Makes you wonder why they didn't coach.
But that would be way to far out in front for them. I take solace in the fact that they must be to self absorbed to realize there are people complaining about them and how they do their job.
So again it's less personal than it's just in their character.
Again in my opinion. You know because it's their job to keep it real and hold others accountable.
Now as for me I hate the losing, it drives me insane. But not for one single second do I think they're incompetent or don't care. I also understand the landscape of sports and the workforce. It's tough out there.
And the reason I engage them is because I loathe complainers. They suck the life out of everything. Obviously we all complain sometimes, we all get pissy and whiny and think somebody screwed something up. I have plenty of my own critics & sometimes they are right & sometimes wrong. But the people I respect, people that are successful. They don't whine and bitch all the time. They have a high level of empathy and what it takes to be successful. They don't spend a great deal of time pointing fingers at other people.
Sub .500 since inception? I have no idea if this is correct, but both of the all-time records I can see show us at 641–554–39(.535).
I am a whiner and complainer when it comes to Iowa football
Why?
Iowa pays Kirk a lot of money to win football games!
Iowa spends a lot of money on facilities and programs to win football games?
I have invested a lot of time and money on Iowa football and so I feel that my time and money should equal a certain amount of return on my investment.
Therefore since I am very analytical and believe investment should equal
return I get upset when that doesn't happen .
I believe that Iowa should win a minimum of 8 games a year.
Now why are some contented?
Maybe they just enjoy supporting their team and will accept whatevwr happens .
A) They are not invested financially or emotionally so they are ok with the result whatever that might be
Or
B) They are invested financially or emotionally but are ok with the result whatever that might be
Why?
Iowa pays Kirk a lot of money to win football games!
Iowa spends a lot of money on facilities and programs to win football games?
I have invested a lot of time and money on Iowa football and so I feel that my time and money should equal a certain amount of return on my investment.
Therefore since I am very analytical and believe investment should equal
return I get upset when that doesn't happen .
I believe that Iowa should win a minimum of 8 games a year.
Now why are some contented?
Maybe they just enjoy supporting their team and will accept whatevwr happens .
A) They are not invested financially or emotionally so they are ok with the result whatever that might be
Or
B) They are invested financially or emotionally but are ok with the result whatever that might be
I'd like to invest in KF and the Hawkeyes. On what exchange are they publicly traded? What are shares going for right now?
Considering our non-conference schedule and membership in probably the weakest division in football, 7 or 8 wins is not a good ROI. We’ve sold out a grand total of 2 games over the past 3 years, that tells me many fans realize this. So, what is going to get us to a more consistent 9-10 win level a la Wisky or Stanford? The Wave? We hang our hats on putting under-recruited players in the league, but if you look at those stats we still rank around 30th. I just don’t know what we have to sell that is attractive to real talent.
Well with all due respect that's just your opinion and not one that was shared by many people of consequence at least this year. Wisconsin, Northwestern and Iowa are all ranked in the top 22 of sagarin rankings and Purdue was 35th.
Furthermore we have fielded a lot of real talent. I can't answer the rest of your questions but we've had some pretty good football teams.
My bad. You are correct. I had our bowl record in my head when typing that.
The answer to your question is betting on them in Vegas. While you attempt to be cheeky the answer is amazingly obvious. Now go invest that entire 401k.
Good news, since you are feeling bullish on KF and crew you stand to make good money.
http://www.oddsshark.com/ncaaf/boston-college-iowa-odds-december-27-2017-932527
(I do not promote gambling or encourage gambling as it is a general way to ruin your life but foe.muskie looking to "invest" I will make an exception)
IMHO more consistent high-level OL and DL play, among other things. I think that's the biggest difference in the trajectories of the two programs since that 2010 game.
You are the biggest blowhard on here. I'll give you a little clue...you don't know half as much as you think you do. You just like to hear yourself talk.
I borrowed a fair amount of money to attend Iowa and get my degree there. 2012 alum. First in my immediate family to walk for a college degree. Bigger deal (at the time) for my parents than it was for me. I've grown to appreciate it for myself. I've since spent money attending a handful of games each year. This year, went in with my dad and brother on the Fight For Iowa mobile pass and attended all but the North Texas game. I'm 30k in debt plus whatever I spend each year attending Iowa games in historic Kinnick Stadium. I'm 99% satisfied with the product on the field. We have relatively clean program. We have a competitive program. We lay more eggs than I would like, but we have a program we can be proud of and a legitimate tradition of winning. Highs and lows, for sure. We have a static trajectory for approaching 40 years. College ball is so competitive these days, and we've avoided the extreme lows for the most part. My first game in Kinnick Stadium was a loss to Minnesota. My second game in Kinnick Stadium was the thrashing of Mich State in 2002 where we snapped Charles Rogers TD streak. Highs and lows. Proud to be a Hawkeye.
I think that at times you fall into the same trap as the people you criticize. You attempt to influence and inform people that you can't control. Some people have the 'not only is my glass half empty it's leaking' mindset and won't change. I want Iowa to win, I want KF to win. Do I think they put forth time and effort? Of course. Do I think they game plan at a high level? At times. Do I think they do a good job of selling the program to high level recruits? No. So some apathy and frustration will ensue.
The real question is, what does "accept" and "demand" mean in this case? It's easy to find those that are disillusioned - find me fans that are "content" please?
At the end of the day, most people should realize something pretty basic - we don't get to decide!
The so-called "content" fans just want to enjoy Iowa football, and rationalize why things are the way they are and believe they will get better.
The so-called "disillusioned" fans want to enjoy Iowa football too, but they can't in it's current form. So, they howl at the Moon and demand change.
Rationalizing the current situation vs. demanding change. Both accomplish the same thing.
Nothing.
Now, if some want to start some sort of fan uprising, Iowa would be the laughing stock that is now Tennessee. I sure hope no one wants to do that.
Quote: " Do I think they do a good job of selling the program to high level recruits? No."
Cidhawkeye, I hear this a lot, but don't understand what people think they could do to sell it better. You don't think in the last 19 yrs. they haven't explored every stratagem possible? You don't think that they haven't talked to consultants and marketing people, other coaches, etc. trying to ameliorate their brand and get higher rated recruits on campus? Most (but not all) of the highest rated recruits end up pretty much in their own backyard and I'm sorry but I think some of the blue bloods somehow get away with 'extra benefits' to the recruits. If you have any suggestions, please share them with us and with the staff. I have no doubt they would like to get more 4 and 5 star recruits to take official visits here, but they can't even entice most of them on campus. Kind of hard to sell them and sign them when you can't even get them on campus.
I feel no need to share what I have shared with the staff. If you want to know ask them. I figure with your expertise and connections you communicate with them quite frequently. They have done some things that have been talked about, alternate uniforms, alter the game day environment, some of the activities on visits, KF not saying 'we're not sexy' it is evolving but still not good. Anything else?
Imho I think there is complacency in the Iowa athletic department. Whether it’s actually the athletic teams or the departments that support them Marketing is on cruise control. Even buying tickets is antiquated. The decent success of the football program and the money from the BTN has covered a lot of ills.
Well thanks for noticing me....
. Just for conversation, what's your frame of reference on who does or doesn't know as much as they think they do...Sorry couldn't help myself!
I was being serious and wasn't trying to insult anyone. Thanks for the sarcastic answer. In other words, you have no answers. Just another 'opinion' that can't be substantiated.
You think alternate uniforms has or will get more top recruits on campus? Have you ever heard a recruit anywhere talk about that? I haven't.
What game day environment things have they done, as I'm apparently ignorant of them? The Wave? That has nothing to do with KF and I don't think it's going to lure all the 5 stars here.
Activities on visits? We are not going to get them hookers/escorts and strippers on their visits like most of the blue bloods do, so forget that. So what activities are you talking about?
You really believe KF told recruits that 'we're not sexy'? Wasn't that just some attempt at humor by KF with the press when there were complaints about recruiting 15 yrs. ago?
Do you really believe that there are coaches out there who could get more higher ranked recruits here on a regular basis without cheating? The big name coaches weren't lined up for the job here when KF got it. Why can't Iowa St., or Minny, or Wisc. or NW etc. fill their teams with 4 and 5 star recruits?
They probably can improve recruiting some (and I think they have/are recently) but as far as these team recruiting rankings, it's all just subjective entertainment. Outside of the top 10 teams, there is very little difference between team 11 and team 60 when it comes to recruiting, just a matter if the stay and what you do with them.
Bottom line, if we won 10 games five years in a row, that wouldn't be enough then either. People are fickle and they rarely look in the mirror.
For years we heard...wow if all the programs had as much intensity as Tom Brands & the wrestling program...man we'd really get things done. He doesn't accept anything less than excellence.
Guess what we don't hear that much anymore. What changed...Toms still pretty intense....they just don't win like they used to.
Maybe my "Blow Hard" buddy above might have some insight.
On a completely unrelated note if one of my friends called me a blowhard or my wife or someone of consequence that would probably make me reevaluate something. But honestly when some stranger on a message board that I have no clue who he is, what he does, where he comes from calls you a salacious name is that supposed to mean anything at all?
I mean seriously....is that worth anything other than a chuckle for obviously irritating someone enough that they say that...
For years we heard...wow if all the programs had as much intensity as Tom Brands & the wrestling program...man we'd really get things done. He doesn't accept anything less than excellence.
Guess what we don't hear that much anymore. What changed...Toms still pretty intense....they just don't win like they used to.
Maybe my "Blow Hard" buddy above might have some insight.
On a completely unrelated note if one of my friends called me a blowhard or my wife or someone of consequence that would probably make me reevaluate something. But honestly when some stranger on a message board that I have no clue who he is, what he does, where he comes from calls you a salacious name is that supposed to mean anything at all?
I mean seriously....is that worth anything other than a chuckle for obviously irritating someone enough that they say that...
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Shut up, blowhard...Bottom line, if we won 10 games five years im a real w, that wouldn't be enough then either. People are fickle and they rarely look in the mirror.
For years we heard...wow if all the programs had as much intensity as Tom Brands & the wrestling program...man we'd really get things done. He doesn't accept anything less than excellence.
Guess what we don't hear that much anymore. What changed...Toms still pretty intense....they just don't win like they used to.
Maybe my "Blow Hard" buddy above might have some insight.
On a completely unrelated note if one of my friends called me a blowhard or my wife or someone of consequence that would probably make me reevaluate something. But honestly when some stranger on a message board that I have no clue who he is, what he does, where he comes from calls you a salacious name is that supposed to mean anything at all?
I mean seriously....is that worth anything other than a chuckle for obviously irritating someone enough that they say that...
Unis? Yes, recruits are aware of unis and gear associated with programs. They do talk about it. I am surprised you don't know that.
Game day environment? Yes there have been changes, the music has changed, card stunts have been added, recruits notice. As far as the wave goes it isn't KF but his donation is mentioned frequently and if you don't think parents of top recruits aren't aware then you aren't being honest.
Most blue bloods don't hire strippers or escorts, your hyperbole is old. Iowa like other programs have hosts for recruits. The visits aren't as scheduled as they previously were. There is more time to enjoy the college life.
Yes there are coaches out there that would recruit at a higher level without cheating, will they come to Iowa? Some would Satan or Meyer types? No.
There is a significant difference between a team consistently finishing in the 11-20 rather than 55-60. To argue that is just you being you.
are you content with the status quo? Think the program is maxed out? The staff doesn't, they are looking to improve. Some of their paradigms make that more challenging at times.
Honestly? Ok.
I love Iowa Hawkeye sports come hell or high water. I love Kirk and what he and his program have done and stand for. I can't think of a better man or coach to lead us. Having done "significant" coaching - though not in football - I often have to realize when frustrated by something that these guys simply have much more experience and expertise than I. I trust they know better. They do. I think most of us need to recognize this before engaging in a discussion like this. Unless we've been there, we don't know. We just don't.
That being said, my only real concern in terms of reality is in losses to teams we should beat. It has been stated on here many times that KF looks at games as practices, that we intentionally keep games tighter in essence to develop... Is this a truth or no? IF SO, be it NDSU, UNI (minus two blocked kicks..), Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Iowa State, etc or Indiana or Purdue in league, I do not see this coaching preference effective. I don't see say Wisconsin getting losses to their non-league teams or weak league teams en masse. If you took everything else: recruiting, offense style, defense style, etc. and kept it exactly the same yet eliminated almost all of these "deflating" Ls, we couldn't ask for more really. I'm not even including losses to Northwestern or MSU this year. I do not believe we have to keep it close to get better. Many programs seem to do well without this. Again, if this is even accurate, I think it shows us getting out coached. I have a friend who follows the Rams. Watching Jeff Fisher teams was very similar to Hawkeye teams some years. Fisher's Rams could beat the best Seahawk teams one week and lose to the Browns a week later. Mcvay has shown him real in game coaching this year. Brohm, for example, went for the throat right out of the second half, attacking a corner with the same route, and it destroyed us. We tend to do the same things and have maybe a signature play for an opponent that is not our normal play rotation. All pre-planned...all expected otherwise. When our o-line dominated, it didn't matter. 2002-2004 was a glory run in that way. But, teams have "caught up", both in offensive line play and how to attack it to some degree. It's amazing how effective we are in spite of ourselves sometimes.
Anyway, I fear the amount of time devoted to discussing a *minor* frustration makes this look like I'm a hater. But, dissolve that thought. I love our staff and what they stand for. I'm so proud to be from Iowa and follow this program, and I don't want anyone else to lead it. Remember, generally speaking, KF and Co. are dominating Nebraska, Minnesota, Michigan, and Illinois...have a coin flip with Wisky, MSU, and NW...and give teams like OSU and PSU a greater game than resources would project. 95% adoration...5% not sure why we let teams hang around and too often take Ls. I just don't understand: an unnecessary loss is still a loss. Go back and take those Ls and make them dubs and see what our season records become.
Again, however, I say, they know more than anyone of us ever will. I can't imagine the challenges they face. The joys they bring to us are almost taken for granted. Do you think Minnesota would trade places? Illinois? Half the Big Ten hasn't seen a fraction of the highs we've had in just the past 3 years. Don't forget how hard it is to win in this league. My two cents...you asked.
I hope to see a return to a bowl win...
I love Iowa Hawkeye sports come hell or high water. I love Kirk and what he and his program have done and stand for. I can't think of a better man or coach to lead us. Having done "significant" coaching - though not in football - I often have to realize when frustrated by something that these guys simply have much more experience and expertise than I. I trust they know better. They do. I think most of us need to recognize this before engaging in a discussion like this. Unless we've been there, we don't know. We just don't.
That being said, my only real concern in terms of reality is in losses to teams we should beat. It has been stated on here many times that KF looks at games as practices, that we intentionally keep games tighter in essence to develop... Is this a truth or no? IF SO, be it NDSU, UNI (minus two blocked kicks..), Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Iowa State, etc or Indiana or Purdue in league, I do not see this coaching preference effective. I don't see say Wisconsin getting losses to their non-league teams or weak league teams en masse. If you took everything else: recruiting, offense style, defense style, etc. and kept it exactly the same yet eliminated almost all of these "deflating" Ls, we couldn't ask for more really. I'm not even including losses to Northwestern or MSU this year. I do not believe we have to keep it close to get better. Many programs seem to do well without this. Again, if this is even accurate, I think it shows us getting out coached. I have a friend who follows the Rams. Watching Jeff Fisher teams was very similar to Hawkeye teams some years. Fisher's Rams could beat the best Seahawk teams one week and lose to the Browns a week later. Mcvay has shown him real in game coaching this year. Brohm, for example, went for the throat right out of the second half, attacking a corner with the same route, and it destroyed us. We tend to do the same things and have maybe a signature play for an opponent that is not our normal play rotation. All pre-planned...all expected otherwise. When our o-line dominated, it didn't matter. 2002-2004 was a glory run in that way. But, teams have "caught up", both in offensive line play and how to attack it to some degree. It's amazing how effective we are in spite of ourselves sometimes.
Anyway, I fear the amount of time devoted to discussing a *minor* frustration makes this look like I'm a hater. But, dissolve that thought. I love our staff and what they stand for. I'm so proud to be from Iowa and follow this program, and I don't want anyone else to lead it. Remember, generally speaking, KF and Co. are dominating Nebraska, Minnesota, Michigan, and Illinois...have a coin flip with Wisky, MSU, and NW...and give teams like OSU and PSU a greater game than resources would project. 95% adoration...5% not sure why we let teams hang around and too often take Ls. I just don't understand: an unnecessary loss is still a loss. Go back and take those Ls and make them dubs and see what our season records become.
Again, however, I say, they know more than anyone of us ever will. I can't imagine the challenges they face. The joys they bring to us are almost taken for granted. Do you think Minnesota would trade places? Illinois? Half the Big Ten hasn't seen a fraction of the highs we've had in just the past 3 years. Don't forget how hard it is to win in this league. My two cents...you asked.
I hope to see a return to a bowl win...
So how many 5 star recruits are new, wild unis going to get us?
Besides Eppy, who's the last 5 star recruit that we've even got to visit? You think a mod uni and a card show is going to change that? LOL.
And yes, the blue bloods and some other schools cheat like hell and resort to other nefarious tactics, don't be so naive.
I agree with a lot of your posts, but peoples 'beliefs' about recruiting are just not based in reality.
I never said anything about 'wild' unis getting recruits, only that it helps the process.
You said 'hookers/escorts and strippers', that's pretty specific and isn't as prevalent as you seem to think it is. Blue bloods do cheat, non blue bloods cheat. Iowa less than most and they have a strong commitment to do things the right way but rules are broken.
Fairly certain I am not naive about the recruiting process. I have been on several hosted visits, met with parents who have been on a wide variety of visits and know coaches on several levels and listen to their stories. Always things that 'other' schools do. We can continue the debate, you won't change my mind that Iowa leaves things to be desired on the recruiting front. Whether it's compliance limiting them or the desire to stay above the fray or just personal choices that are made.
Wow...another post bitching about people bitching and making assumptions about people they don't know anything about. Bravo!
Couldn't the answer to this simple question just be that people have different expectations for the program they follow? Whoa...MIND BLOWING ANSWER. No, it can't be that simple for people like you. It has to be dramatic (although I find it funny that people like you don't think you are dramatic, but you are) and the players in this game have to fit a certain personality to make you feel like you understand the situation. News flash....things aren't that black and white. People have their reasons as to why they follow the teams, why they have the opinions they have and you really don't know the reasons why. Many times what side they are on has nothing to do with how they run their personal lives. How do I know this? I know multiple people whom are critical of their sports team whom are very successful in their lives and are quite happy and I know the reverse. So please stop with that silly assumption.
This topic reminds me of an interview with Jake Plummer recently on CBS sports radio about the hiring of Herm Edwards as ASU's new head football coach. Apparently a good portion of the ASU fanbase was upset about the hire (for some of you this is shocking news that there are fanbases, other than Iowa, that has critical fans) considering his lack of collegiate coaching experience and his time away from coaching. To me I thought these were valid reasons to be concerned about the hire and I could see why fans might be upset. Jake didn't see it that way. He thought Herm will be a great coach, so much so that at one point in the interview he said if Edwards is successful that he would like to find the critical fans, bring them out on the field during a game, and point at them saying that these were the people whom didn't believe in Edwards. I thought to myself that this is a really dumb thing to say. My first thought was...does this mean that they drag you, and others like you, out onto the field if Edwards leaves the program in horrible shape after his short tenure and say that because of supporters like you this team is in worse shape than ever before? I thought that if his thoughts were justified by some, then the reverse would be justifiable by others. To me, the smart answer is that neither side knows how Edwards will be and a minimum of 3 years is required before anyone would know if Edwards is a good collegiate coach. In the meantime though there are barometers which can be used to gauge if the program is going in the right direction like recruiting, rivaly game win/loses, etc.,. If Edwards passes those measures, then I could see people shifting to his side and providing more support; if not, then I don't see an issue with some criticism. I believe this is where our sides differ. Some people think any criticism is bad, while others see a reason to be critical.
You just described EVERY fan base in America. That's reality ...
Wow another post bitching about me, bitching about you, bitching about you the coaches… Let that sink in for a minute...
Kind of ridiculous huh. carry-on....
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I think about 12 Saturdays 52 weeks a year. Am I really supposed to hope for a roughly .575 Win percentage?
Ooops missed this the first time....Don't find it funny because its a lie. I have accused myself of being caustic, pissy, over the top, even high-strung. I have even apologized at times because "I know how I can be"...This response by you is just another in a long line of posters, who take themselves way to seriously. You seemingly Think your "expectations" are more meaningful and therefore the way you express you anger is acceptable.It isn't...
And I'll confess when someone attempts this angle with me, I get giddy. It shows a complete lack of comprehension of who they are dealing with and what it takes to frame a successful rebuttal and discredit someone. Hell I have 6 kids and a high-strung wife. My hole entire household is filled with drama and over the top people. But let me tell you something, they are highly skilled in dialogue and debate. And they would rip this kind of commentary to shreds. You clearly only read to the parts where you get mad and then skip everything else....To be fair I suppose you could win a debate with my 5 year old....
But back on point, they are all good at apologizing when they are wrong, or too strong....I have yet to see ANY of you hyper-critics come around a say..."geez, I was just made and got carried away" You also love to lambaste us for our opinions but we have just as much right to them as you.
The 2nd, point all I can say is wow...I, as have others, said 1000 times on here. These super-critics are on every board, therefore don't consider yourselves enlightened.
Finally, I get why Jake said that. These aren't "critics" these guys are caustic, whiny, bitching jack-wagons who are never happy. No one minds a critic, I am one and I have been rightly criticized.
Don't EVER pretend like what these jack-wagons do is "just criticize a little"
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If your glass is leaking, throw the damn thing away and pull out a new one.
Your fandom is not encapsulated within a single limited edition collector's mug featuring the crack hawk...........
This is the truth of it. The only way to voice your opinion is stop buying tickets and attending games. And since we've only sold out 2 games in the last 3 years (assuming that's true, I didn't check) then I'd say a certain segment of the fan base has already engaged in a form of uprising. But this is Iowa. We're not some idiot, backwoods state like Tennessee, Kentucky or North Carolina. So, we'll never be that kind of laughing stock. Unless you consider the fact that a lot of fans of other teams laugh at how much money we are paying KF for 7 win seasons.
Yeah well those same fans piss and moan about their coaches too and think they're really important, what does that prove?
I would accept 7-5 if we played some engaging preseason match ups, beat the people we are supposed to beat, and had better teams in the West (ie Nebraska was the team they think they are). However I demand 8+ more wins when we continue to schedule dogs early in the year and play in the non-competitive West.
