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Republicans may try budget math that doesn’t count Trump tax cuts

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Republican plans to pass a massive new tax cut in the early days of President-elect Donald Trump’s second term are running into a major obstacle: the price tag.
Extending Trump’s 2017 tax law would add $4.6 trillion to the national debt over the next decade, according to the Congressional Budget Office, lawmakers’ nonpartisan bookkeeper. But now some leading GOP tax writers are arguing that extending the law wouldn’t add to the nation’s $36.2 trillion deficit at all.


Their proposal, though arcane, is about more than accounting.
In 2017, Trump’s Tax Cuts and Jobs Act lowered rates for businesses and individuals in every income bracket, though benefits were concentrated among the highest earners. The business tax cuts are permanent already, but the individual cuts expire at the end of this year, meaning most Americans will face a major tax hike next year unless Congress passes new legislation. Trump also promised new policies on the campaign trail, including ending federal taxes on tips and overtime wages.


Using a process called “budget reconciliation,” the GOP could dodge a Democratic filibuster in the Senate. But for that to work, Republicans — who will govern with slim margins in both chambers of Congress — must agree on how much they’re willing to add to the national debt.

That makes the stakes quite high for the internal Republican dispute over how to price the tax cuts — which could determine how aggressive Trump and the GOP will be in pushing for new tax cuts and spending reductions.
Already, some fiscal conservatives are voicing concerns about adding trillions more red ink to the nation’s books, and they want to use the tax bill to codify GOP campaign promises to slash government spending.

The House is generally far more sensitive about budget matters than the Senate, and the GOP majority in the lower chamber is stocked with deficit watchdogs who have a reputation for sinking even Trump’s priorities if they’re too expensive. The Senate is eager to chalk up an early win for the incoming president, with less concern about the cost.

“You do have to pass a [budget] resolution eventually. We kind of have to agree,” Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Missouri) said. “And I just hope, I said this to my leadership, we need to get moving on that. I don’t know how much value there is in an extended standoff between the House and the Senate.”
Typically, lawmakers would look for spending cuts to offset the revenue lost by extending the cuts. House Budget Committee Chair Jodey Arrington (R-Texas) discussed a “menu” of fiscal policy choices at a GOP policy lunch last week. The options included steep cuts to food stamp programs, capping Medicare payments and reversing President Joe Biden’s climate investments, among other policies.

“If we unleash this economy, through tax cuts, deregulation, smart energy policies, and at the same time, bend the curve on mandatory spending by trillions of dollars, that’s more than we’ve ever done to restore the fiscal health of this nation in the history of this nation,” Arrington said.

But some of those changes would be politically explosive. So leading GOP tax writers are considering another strategy they hope will set the tax bill on a glide path.
Because the tax cuts are already in place, some Republicans argue that a new bill to extend them would not incur additional costs to the U.S. Treasury. It’s analogous, they say, to renewing a Netflix subscription — the cost continues month after month, and many consumers would not consider the recurring payment a new expense.

“It recognizes reality,” said Senate Finance Committee Chair Mike Crapo (R-Idaho), the leading proponent of the approach, which is called a “current policy” baseline.
The more conventional approach for 10-year budget estimates is to use a “current law” baseline. Under current law, federal revenue is expected to go way up next year when the tax cuts expire. So a bill to extend the tax cuts would rob the Treasury of that big burst of new revenue.

“Current policy baseline, I consider it to be a made-up term — made up to avoid the difficulty of the fiscal impact,” said Rep. David Schweikert (R-Arizona), who chairs the bicameral Joint Economic Committee, which oversees economic policy.

There is recent precedent for using a current policy baseline. In 2013, Jeff Zients, then a top budget official in the Obama administration, argued that Congress should use that metric when extending George W. Bush-era tax cuts. Zients, now Biden’s chief of staff, said he preferred that baseline “since it measures changes relative to the status quo.”
But budget experts largely reject that framework. Even if policymakers insist that the federal government is reducing its borrowing using the current policy baseline, the U.S.’s creditors don’t see it that way, said Maya MacGuineas, president of the nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. Bond purchasers will demand higher interest rates as compensation for taking on a riskier investment.

“Even if we say we’re not borrowing, we still have to go ahead and borrow the money, and someone has to be willing to lend it to us,” MacGuineas said. “And right now, the concerns about our huge and growing levels of debt can make that very risky for the overall economy.”

Arrington, who as Budget Committee chair will have huge influence over the reconciliation process, said that even using Crapo’s favored “current policy” baseline, a tax bill that is not accompanied by other fiscal policy would still increase the national debt in reality — even if it’s not reflected in the spreadsheets.
“I don’t get caught up in the CBO accounting,” Arrington said. “What I get caught up in is any real impact to the deficit and what we have to do to mitigate that. Either way you do it, even if you assume current policy, there’s still an adverse impact to the deficit.”
Whatever the cost, Republicans are eager to get going.
“We must not leave families and small businesses waiting for Congress to do the right thing and provide tax relief at the 11th hour. We must make the Trump tax cuts permanent as soon as possible,” House Ways and Means Committee Chair Jason T. Smith (R-Missouri) said at a hearing Tuesday.
 
Republican plans to pass a massive new tax cut in the early days of President-elect Donald Trump’s second term are running into a major obstacle: the price tag.
Extending Trump’s 2017 tax law would add $4.6 trillion to the national debt over the next decade, according to the Congressional Budget Office, lawmakers’ nonpartisan bookkeeper. But now some leading GOP tax writers are arguing that extending the law wouldn’t add to the nation’s $36.2 trillion deficit at all.


Their proposal, though arcane, is about more than accounting.
In 2017, Trump’s Tax Cuts and Jobs Act lowered rates for businesses and individuals in every income bracket, though benefits were concentrated among the highest earners. The business tax cuts are permanent already, but the individual cuts expire at the end of this year, meaning most Americans will face a major tax hike next year unless Congress passes new legislation. Trump also promised new policies on the campaign trail, including ending federal taxes on tips and overtime wages.


Using a process called “budget reconciliation,” the GOP could dodge a Democratic filibuster in the Senate. But for that to work, Republicans — who will govern with slim margins in both chambers of Congress — must agree on how much they’re willing to add to the national debt.

That makes the stakes quite high for the internal Republican dispute over how to price the tax cuts — which could determine how aggressive Trump and the GOP will be in pushing for new tax cuts and spending reductions.
Already, some fiscal conservatives are voicing concerns about adding trillions more red ink to the nation’s books, and they want to use the tax bill to codify GOP campaign promises to slash government spending.

The House is generally far more sensitive about budget matters than the Senate, and the GOP majority in the lower chamber is stocked with deficit watchdogs who have a reputation for sinking even Trump’s priorities if they’re too expensive. The Senate is eager to chalk up an early win for the incoming president, with less concern about the cost.

“You do have to pass a [budget] resolution eventually. We kind of have to agree,” Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Missouri) said. “And I just hope, I said this to my leadership, we need to get moving on that. I don’t know how much value there is in an extended standoff between the House and the Senate.”
Typically, lawmakers would look for spending cuts to offset the revenue lost by extending the cuts. House Budget Committee Chair Jodey Arrington (R-Texas) discussed a “menu” of fiscal policy choices at a GOP policy lunch last week. The options included steep cuts to food stamp programs, capping Medicare payments and reversing President Joe Biden’s climate investments, among other policies.

“If we unleash this economy, through tax cuts, deregulation, smart energy policies, and at the same time, bend the curve on mandatory spending by trillions of dollars, that’s more than we’ve ever done to restore the fiscal health of this nation in the history of this nation,” Arrington said.

But some of those changes would be politically explosive. So leading GOP tax writers are considering another strategy they hope will set the tax bill on a glide path.
Because the tax cuts are already in place, some Republicans argue that a new bill to extend them would not incur additional costs to the U.S. Treasury. It’s analogous, they say, to renewing a Netflix subscription — the cost continues month after month, and many consumers would not consider the recurring payment a new expense.

“It recognizes reality,” said Senate Finance Committee Chair Mike Crapo (R-Idaho), the leading proponent of the approach, which is called a “current policy” baseline.
The more conventional approach for 10-year budget estimates is to use a “current law” baseline. Under current law, federal revenue is expected to go way up next year when the tax cuts expire. So a bill to extend the tax cuts would rob the Treasury of that big burst of new revenue.

“Current policy baseline, I consider it to be a made-up term — made up to avoid the difficulty of the fiscal impact,” said Rep. David Schweikert (R-Arizona), who chairs the bicameral Joint Economic Committee, which oversees economic policy.

There is recent precedent for using a current policy baseline. In 2013, Jeff Zients, then a top budget official in the Obama administration, argued that Congress should use that metric when extending George W. Bush-era tax cuts. Zients, now Biden’s chief of staff, said he preferred that baseline “since it measures changes relative to the status quo.”
But budget experts largely reject that framework. Even if policymakers insist that the federal government is reducing its borrowing using the current policy baseline, the U.S.’s creditors don’t see it that way, said Maya MacGuineas, president of the nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. Bond purchasers will demand higher interest rates as compensation for taking on a riskier investment.

“Even if we say we’re not borrowing, we still have to go ahead and borrow the money, and someone has to be willing to lend it to us,” MacGuineas said. “And right now, the concerns about our huge and growing levels of debt can make that very risky for the overall economy.”

Arrington, who as Budget Committee chair will have huge influence over the reconciliation process, said that even using Crapo’s favored “current policy” baseline, a tax bill that is not accompanied by other fiscal policy would still increase the national debt in reality — even if it’s not reflected in the spreadsheets.
“I don’t get caught up in the CBO accounting,” Arrington said. “What I get caught up in is any real impact to the deficit and what we have to do to mitigate that. Either way you do it, even if you assume current policy, there’s still an adverse impact to the deficit.”
Whatever the cost, Republicans are eager to get going.
“We must not leave families and small businesses waiting for Congress to do the right thing and provide tax relief at the 11th hour. We must make the Trump tax cuts permanent as soon as possible,” House Ways and Means Committee Chair Jason T. Smith (R-Missouri) said at a hearing Tuesday.

Fake news. It's the Washington Post.
 
It's how Republicans budget and a big part of why they always end up f**king up the economy. They deal in fantasies, not reality. They also don't care because they get rich that way. Bush did this with the war in Iraq and his tax cuts. They didn't like what the war spending was going to do to the budget so they just decided to not include it. Then when Democrats get in power with the gigantic mess on their hands and add that stuff back into the budget so, you know, people can actually plan properly, Republicans get to pretend it's the Democrats who increased spending, not them.

Democrats need to do a better job of countering the BS budget numbers Republicans come up with and release an actual budget that includes spending Republicans don't want to include.
 
It's how Republicans budget and a big part of why they always end up f**king up the economy. They deal in fantasies, not reality. They also don't care because they get rich that way. Bush did this with the war in Iraq and his tax cuts. They didn't like what the war spending was going to do to the budget so they just decided to not include it. Then when Democrats get in power with the gigantic mess on their hands and add that stuff back into the budget so, you know, people can actually plan properly, Republicans get to pretend it's the Democrats who increased spending, not them.

Democrats need to do a better job of countering the BS budget numbers Republicans come up with and release an actual budget that includes spending Republicans don't want to include.
Reagan, Bush and Clinton all ran good economies. So it isn't the Republicans. It's Trump and Biden that have screwed it up. I would include Obama, but all that happened with him was throwing a life preserver and we floated around for awhile.
 
These are not really “new” tax cuts.

For some reason Trump’s original cuts made the corporate rate cut permanent and then sunset the rest of ours in 2025….thanks jerks. And now this will become a political football.
 
These are not really “new” tax cuts.

For some reason Trump’s original cuts made the corporate rate cut permanent and then sunset the rest of ours in 2025….thanks jerks. And now this will become a political football.
Well, it's not "for some reason". Republicans knew damn well what their tax cuts would do to the budget so the initial tax cuts were a teaser to get people happy about them but then over time put the rates back to where they were for people but not for companies. That way, they get to transfer even more of the tax burden to the poor and middle class.
 
Reagan, Bush and Clinton all ran good economies. So it isn't the Republicans. It's Trump and Biden that have screwed it up. I would include Obama, but all that happened with him was throwing a life preserver and we floated around for awhile.
Thankfully Sharky is no economic wizard! Reagan bankrupted the Midwest, Bush wrestled with the mess Reagan handed off to him….Clinton made necessary tax rate adjustments and was smart enough to get out of the way as the economy BOOMED…. Junior phuqued up Clinton’s good work his first 2 years of office and then oversaw the mortgage/insurance crash…Obama stabilized and got the economy moving in the right direction direction, his mistake was he should have allowed rates to rise his last 2 years of office…Trump phuqued it all up with his Covid abortion after maintaining what Ibana handed him….Biden bailed out Trump and the GOPs ass with his economic program and dealing with the post-COVID inflation he was given… and now Trump’s economy…. It’ll be a beauty guys…I’m sure.
 
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They didn't like what the war spending was going to do to the budget so they just decided to not include it. Then when Democrats get in power with the gigantic mess on their hands and add that stuff back into the budget so, you know, people can actually plan properly, Republicans get to pretend it's the Democrats who increased spending, not them.

Democrats continued the 'tradition' of supplemental appropriations to wage the wars, they did not 'add that stuff back into the budget':

e.g.

1.
https://democrats-appropriations.ho...y_-_War_Jobs_and_Other_needs_-_05.26.2010.pdf

Summary: 2010 Supplemental Appropriations Act This supplemental appropriations bill provides over $37.47 billion to support our troops, conduct the war in Afghanistan, continue to drawdown troops in Iraq, and provide non-military assistance and build up State Department operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.
2.

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/602892/vice-chairman-budget-request-covers-more-than-afghanistan/

Vice Chairman: Budget Request Covers More Than Afghanistan

July 16, 2014 | By Amaani Lyle, DOD News |

The $58.6 billion in supplemental overseas contingency operations funds the Pentagon is seeking for fiscal year 2015 supports global missions beyond Afghanistan, the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told the House Armed Services Committee today.
 
Democrats continued the 'tradition' of supplemental appropriations to wage the wars, they did not 'add that stuff back into the budget':

e.g.

1.
https://democrats-appropriations.ho...y_-_War_Jobs_and_Other_needs_-_05.26.2010.pdf

Summary: 2010 Supplemental Appropriations Act This supplemental appropriations bill provides over $37.47 billion to support our troops, conduct the war in Afghanistan, continue to drawdown troops in Iraq, and provide non-military assistance and build up State Department operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.
2.

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/602892/vice-chairman-budget-request-covers-more-than-afghanistan/

Vice Chairman: Budget Request Covers More Than Afghanistan

July 16, 2014 | By Amaani Lyle, DOD News |

The $58.6 billion in supplemental overseas contingency operations funds the Pentagon is seeking for fiscal year 2015 supports global missions beyond Afghanistan, the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told the House Armed Services Committee today.
Well, whatever. If Bush had set it up properly in the first place then it would have been accounted for properly the entire time.
 
Well, whatever.
giphy.gif


If Bush had set it up properly in the first place then it would have been accounted for properly the entire time.
Nothing Bush did precluded Obama or Biden from including the cost of the ‘overseas contingency operations’ in their overall budgets. They chose not to for the exact same self serving reasons.
The hole is deep enough. Quit digging.
 
I'm starting to think Republicans don't intend to work on the national debt.
You think they won’t offer to cut spending?

Were all the articles Ciggy posted about the threat of another Trump administration to federal transfer payments lies? Intended to scare the gullible?
 
Reagan, Bush and Clinton all ran good economies. So it isn't the Republicans. It's Trump and Biden that have screwed it up. I would include Obama, but all that happened with him was throwing a life preserver and we floated around for awhile.
Are you old enough to remember the double digit inflation of Reagan's first term and maybe longer?

Which bush you talking about? Bush 1 had a very sluggish economy and raised taxes to raise dough so the Fed Govt could stimulate the economy. Bush 2 ended up with the economy going over the cliff into a depression.

Clinton ran good economies for about 6 years with balanced budgets but then they got greedy and took away with the aid of congress or loosened some of the Glass-Steagle Act provisions which led to banks doing investments and investment houses becoming banks and Boom just like in the 1920's the crash happened in 2007-8.

But mostly Repub presidents cant help but spending money and raising the debt by massive amounts.
 
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giphy.gif



Nothing Bush did precluded Obama or Biden from including the cost of the ‘overseas contingency operations’ in their overall budgets. They chose not to for the exact same self serving reasons.
The hole is deep enough. Quit digging.
Well, Junior did start 2 wars half way around the world and refused to pay for them, choosing to cut taxes and put the cost of these wars on the nation’s credit card. At least LBJ, after expanding the Viet Nam war, added a 10% “sur tax” to everyone’s IRS filing back in the day.
 
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