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RFK Jr for HHS

naturalbornhawk said:
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I suspect if you polled those of us who think RFK is a whack job you would find most of us agree with his take on our food supply. We love our chemicals and additives in this country and personally, having lived and traveled extensively in Europe, I can see and taste the difference. If he focused there he could do amazing things.

Where he loses us is in the vaccine stuff and his own bizarre interpersonal behaviors.

There are interesting parallels to Musk: driven business genius who is solving existential threats to humanity - but with pretty fringe behaviors.
 
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hawkeyetraveler said:
Where he loses us is in the vaccine stuff
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Let's put it this way. If he gets in, does what he wants, and finds nothing, then people like me eat our crow, get piss-pounded in the threads, and my side will have to stop talking about it. We can end the vaccine debate threads, talk politics, best pizza places, and rank women. Childhood immunization rates climb back up. Don't you want that?
 
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naturalbornhawk said:
Whatever that means. :rolleyes: Is head of HHS adequate enough?
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Our conversation revolved around, at least my position, is if a panel of academics, or equivalent professionals would find it worthwhile to debate a person with the qualities of RFK, Jr. My position is they would not since he is a conspiracy fruitcake.

Your position is yes. Your inference was their refusal to debate was fact, not process based.

Our actual disagreement has nothing to do with his qualifications.
 
naturalbornhawk said:
Let's put it this way. If he gets in, does what he wants, and finds nothing, then people like me eat our crow, get piss-pounded in the threads, and my side will have to stop talking about it. We can end the vaccine debate threads, talk politics, best pizza places, and rank women. Childhood immunization rates climb back up. Don't you want that?
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Wrong. People like you will never admit you are wrong. Anti Vaxxers are just like flat earthers or moon landing deniers or any other conspiracy theory nonsense. Science hasn't appeased you yet, it never will. And even if he declares Vax is okay, there will always be a segment that will come up with a new conspiracy that HE was bought off etc.

example. Flat earthers get piss pounded in every thread (even on this site), but still have pseudo science reasons and simply refuse to believe they are wrong.
 
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Bulldogs1974 said:
big difference between the bolded and having a doctor, that went to medical school and "knows things" in charge of HHS.
We've gotten so stupid in this country that that average moron thinks they know more than the expert. Just because this loon is a contrarian doesn't mean he's qualified.
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The current head of HHS is a lawyer and a politician. What medical school did he go to?
 
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naturalbornhawk said:
He spent his entire life as a practicing Physician and lost his license over telling the truth so yeah it sure as hell did, as it should anyone.

So yeah it's a damn shame more people don't the truth and do the right thing and commend people for doing the right thing at their own peril.
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Lost his license over telling the truth? So, are there collaborators to support his position?

Like I posted, are his studies independent with remote data, unsubstantiated and unverified? In other words, is he out in outer right field. A nutcase.

Keep in mind, data integrity is absolutely essential. So much so sharing is common across, among and within industries and organizations. Of course, independent studies are necessary and performed constantly, but the 1st question on any study has to be is it reliable. To test something already tested multiple times to possibly gain a different result is not objective.

A physician who's lost his license. Sorry. That's severe. You should be looking at the physician. I usually don't take the time to address something this extreme, but this clicked.
 
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ft254 said:
Our conversation revolved around, at least my position, is if a panel of academics, or equivalent professionals would find it worthwhile to debate a person with the qualities of RFK, Jr. My position is they would not since he is a conspiracy fruitcake.

Your position is yes. Your inference was their refusal to debate was fact, not process based.

Our actual disagreement has nothing to do with his qualifications.
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My position is that the health agencies are fighting a losing battle. Public opinion of these agencies are as low as they've ever been and childhood immunization uptake is steadily decreasing. So, keep status quo is what you're proposing?

It seems logical that if the health agencies put together their best team of experts and were able to successfully execute a verbal take down of his ideas it would be devastating to the antivax narratives. If you don't think that would devastate/destroy the antivax community you're delusional.

Your position that they don't want to stoop to his level is piss poor and nothing but an excuse for you to help rationalize and make sense why they aren't doing a better job of attacking him and his position.
 
goldmom said:
If that kid is unvaxxed I suspect they are not in the best of health to begin with - other things the parents are not watching.
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Oh, ffs! Kids are not ‘healthy’ unless they adhere fully to the childhood vaccine schedule? The US is among the WORST of all developed countries for childhood mortality and autoimmune diseases in spite of far outspending all others.

Chemical cocktails injected into babies and children can NEVER insure health. It’s a money grab, pure and simple.
 
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ft254 said:
Lost his license over telling the truth?
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Yes.
ft254 said:
So, are there collaborators to support his position?
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A growing %age of the populations support his position.
ft254 said:
Like I posted, are his studies independent with remote data, unsubstantiated and unverified? In other words, is he out in outer right field. A nutcase.
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As soon as the VSD is made transparent, as long as the data is still sound the people will soon see if his practice data matches the data of 10 million Americans. Hopefully we're about to find out.
ft254 said:
A physician who's lost his license. Sorry. That's severe. You should be looking at the physician. I usually don't take the time to address something this extreme, but this clicked.
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It happens to MD's who speak out to make an example out of them. From the board's position, he became a major contributor to spreading "misinformation" and decreasing immunization uptake threatening public health. An example had to be made or other practices might follow suit.
 
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MichaelKeller99 said:
Oh, ffs! Kids are not ‘healthy’ unless they adhere fully to the childhood vaccine schedule? The US is among the WORST of all developed countries for childhood mortality and autoimmune diseases in spite of far outspending all others.
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nailed it throw GIF
 
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MichaelKeller99 said:
Oh, ffs! Kids are not ‘healthy’ unless they adhere fully to the childhood vaccine schedule? The US is among the WORST of all developed countries for childhood mortality and autoimmune diseases in spite of far outspending all others.

Chemical cocktails injected into babies and children can NEVER insure health. It’s a money grab, pure and simple.
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You can’t be over 4 1/2 feet tall cause the larger point went right over your head.
 
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naturalbornhawk said:
But believing that vaccines actually make kids healthier above and beyond infectious disease protection is much too big of a point to ignore.
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I have an opinion that parents of the no vax crowd tend to be misinformed about a true healthy diet that frankly has to deliver a very large amount of protein not available if you’re vegan.
That’s my opinion.
 
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mnole03 said:
He wants concentration camps.
futurism.com

RFK Jr. Says He’ll Send People Taking Adderall to Labor Camps

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. wants to strip people of their tech gadgets and send them to government-funded "wellness farms" to grow organic food.
futurism.com futurism.com
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"I’m going to create these wellness farms where they can go to get off of illegal drugs, off of opiates, but also illegal drugs, other psychiatric drugs, if they want to, to get off of SSRIs, to get off of benzos, to get off of Adderall, and to spend time as much time as they need — three or four years if they need it — to learn to get reparented, to reconnect with communities," he said during the broadcast.

"I’m going to make it so people can go, if you’re convicted of a drug offense, or if you have a drug problem, you can go to one of these places for free."

If you want to. To grow organic food. In rural America. Why are people all feeling the need embellish to re-create the 2nd coming of Hitler in their own minds?
 
goldmom said:
I have an opinion that parents of the no vax crowd tend to be misinformed about a true healthy diet that frankly has to deliver a very large amount of protein not available if you’re vegan.
That’s my opinion.
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Is that a misconception? I figured most of the vegans were lefties. Personally a large part of my family's diet is meat.
 
naturalbornhawk said:
"I’m going to create these wellness farms where they can go to get off of illegal drugs, off of opiates, but also illegal drugs, other psychiatric drugs, if they want to, to get off of SSRIs, to get off of benzos, to get off of Adderall, and to spend time as much time as they need — three or four years if they need it — to learn to get reparented, to reconnect with communities," he said during the broadcast.

"I’m going to make it so people can go, if you’re convicted of a drug offense, or if you have a drug problem, you can go to one of these places for free."

If you want to. To grow organic food. In rural America. Why are people all feeling the need embellish to re-create the 2nd coming of Hitler in their own minds?
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my-reflexes-are-too-fasr.gif
 
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seminole97 said:
Ah, the anecdotal fallacy:

The anecdotal fallacy is a common fallacy that occurs when someone uses a single experience or limited personal experience to draw a general conclusion about a topic.
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Yeah, I get that. But you know what is more dangerous than vaccines? Guns, cars, cancer, flu, Covid. Anecdote or not, I know someone who has been affected by every single one of those things. Because they are common. You know what else I can say? I know multiple instances of people who have been harmed by NOT getting a vaccine.

But the reality is, the actual data supports the anecdote in this case. Problems with vaccines are extremely rare and fall well within the range of what to expect with any medical treatment.
 
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mnole03 said:
You mean the doctor who founded one of the most successful eating disorder programs in the world and pioneered issuing Narcan to all first responders while it was state surgeon general, saving thousands of lives?
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LOL - I corrected it for you, btw saving lives? How about just saying at best extended their shitty life until their next OD.
 
BioHawk said:
Problems with vaccines are extremely rare and fall well within the range of what to expect with any medical treatment.
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Then why are people so concerned about subjecting them to the same kind of medical trials that we do for other medicine?
What is the 'problem' with doing so?
Because that's all RFK Jr. has said.
He hasn't said there shouldn't be vaccines, he's simply said they should be tested like other medicine.
Why oppose that?
 
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Well, as an AF brat and world traveler. I have been ultra vaccinated. Typhus, cholera, typhoid every year. TB tests every six months. There was another one too, but I don’t remember what it was.

But that’s what they did back in the ‘60’s to the overseas brats.

I here’ s the interesting thing. After Covid we were talking about illnesses during that time period. None of had COVID, but we had a weird bronchial infection prior to Zcovid being known.

Since 2019, none of us have been sick.

Very weird indeed. We have opined that our “immunity” is the result of all those shots.

But until there’s a study or more, we’ll never know for sure.
 
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DeangeloVickers said:
You're at least getting closer to realizing a huge part of the problem... how do you remove the multi trillion dollar influence pharma has on all of this?
Most Americans just want to know that the safety of what we're putting in our and our kid's bodies isn't influenced by those profiting off it. Bc right now that's not the case and it hasn't been for decades.
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How many children in 2023 died from vaccines?

How many children in 2023 died from guns?

You want to fix something real maybe we should start here.
 
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ericram said:
How many children in 2023 died from vaccines?

How many children in 2023 died from guns?

You want to fix something real maybe we should start here.
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I kinda think there’s opportunity to work on both and agree with you.
 
naturalbornhawk said:
Yes.

A growing %age of the populations support his position.

As soon as the VSD is made transparent, as long as the data is still sound the people will soon see if his practice data matches the data of 10 million Americans. Hopefully we're about to find out.

It happens to MD's who speak out to make an example out of them. From the board's position, he became a major contributor to spreading "misinformation" and decreasing immunization uptake threatening public health. An example had to be made or other practices might follow suit.
Click to expand...

"a growing saga of the populations support his position"
"will soon find out"
"might follow up"

In a world of fact and science these are not ringing endorsements. You realize you're coming in from the backside of the argument here. He has lost his license for non-compliance with some sort of technical, ethics or behavior issue.

You have your opinion, but enough time has been spent discussing this. IMO this sounds like a conspiracy theorist or a quack. Sound like the AMA or whatever governing body delicensed him thought so too.
 
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ericram said:
How many children in 2023 died from vaccines?

How many children in 2023 died from guns?

You want to fix something real maybe we should start here.
Click to expand...
There’s a big difference. The gun industry doesn’t work hand-in-hand with any government agency to hide gun deaths from the public like the pharmaceutical companies do with vaccines. You want to fix something maybe start there. :rolleyes:

1.1. International classification of diseases​

There are 130 official ways for an infant to die. These official categories of death, sanctioned by the World Health Organization (WHO) and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), are published in the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) [[1], [2], [3]]. When a baby dies, coroners must choose from among these 130 categories.
The official causes of death listed in the ICD include nearly every imaginable—and tragic—possibility. In fact, previous versions of the ICD listed "prophylactic inoculation and vaccination" as a separate cause-of-death category, with subcategories for deaths caused by specific vaccines. However, when the ICD was revised in 1979—and in subsequent updates to the ICD—all cause-of-death classifications associated with vaccination were eliminated. Since then, medical certifiers have been unable to list vaccination as an official cause of death because the ICD no longer contains a code for that possibility.

1.2. Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS)​

Prior to the introduction of organized vaccination programs, "crib death" was so rare that it was not mentioned in infant mortality statistics. In the United States, national immunization campaigns were expanded in the 1960s when several new vaccines were introduced and promoted. For the first time in history, most U.S. infants were required to receive several doses of DPT (diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus), polio, and measles vaccines. (The measles vaccine was administered at 9 months of age from 1963 to 1965 [5]). Mumps and rubella vaccines were also introduced in the 1960s. By 1969, an alarming epidemic of sudden unexplained infant deaths impelled researchers to create a new medical term—sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) [6]. By 1972, SIDS had become the leading cause of post-neonatal mortality (infant deaths occurring between 28 days and 1 year of life) in the United States [7]. In 1973, the National Center for Health Statistics, operated by the CDC, created a new cause-of-death category to document deaths due to SIDS [8,9].

In 1992, the American Academy of Pediatrics(AAP) [13] came up with a plan to reduce the unacceptable SIDS rate while reassuring concerned mothers and fathers that sudden unexplained infant deaths were not related to vaccines. The AAP initiated a national "Back to Sleep" campaign, telling parents to place their infants supine, rather than prone, during sleep. From 1992 through 2001, post-neonatal SIDS declined by an average annual rate of 8.6 % [9]. It seemed as though the "Back to Sleep" campaign was successful and that the real cause of SIDS was due not to vaccinations but from babies sleeping on their bellies.
However, a closer inspection of the ICD—the 130 official ways for an infant to die—revealed a loophole. Medical certifiers, such as coroners, could choose from among several categories of death when a baby suddenly expired. They didn't have to list the death as SIDS.

The trend toward reclassifying sudden infant deaths under alternate ICD codes is an ongoing concern. From 1999 through 2015, the U.S. SIDS rate declined 35.8 % while infant deaths due to accidental suffocation increased 183.8 %. According to Lambert et al. [17], "There is evidence of a continuing diagnostic shift between SUID subtypes," but "there has been little change in overall SUID rates since 1999."

In 1978–1979, 11 babies in Tennessee died within 8 days following DPT vaccination [43]. Five of the babies died suddenly within 24 h of vaccination. Nine of the 11 babies had received their vaccine from the same lot. A subsequent investigation confirmed a greater than expected relationship between Lot #64201 of the DPT vaccine and SIDS. Initially, health authorities "did not feel that a causal relationship could be totally excluded." Later, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued a revised statement that "experts…did not find evidence of a cause-effect relationship." Finally, the CDC claimed that the SIDS cases in Tennessee that occurred shortly after DPT vaccination were all a "coincidence." (After this incident, internal memos by the vaccine manufacturer revealed a new policy of limiting shipments of DPT vaccine so that no geographical location would receive all of the product from a single lot, confounding the ability to trace hot lots that might cause clusters of SIDS cases post-vaccination.)

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www.sciencedirect.com
 
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