Rhoads...

[DodgerHawki]

Interesting comment Lone. The obstacles in front of ISU are significant and cannot be ignored. All the more reason the school should likely move on from the current coach. Looking in the context of the decision to give Rhoads the extension, one can understand why it was done. At the time, Rhoads had made some bowl games, had success against Iowa, had upsets vs. Nebraska and Okie State, and perhaps most importantly, wanted to be at Iowa State for the long term.

What was not known at that time was that Rhoads would be unable to recruit at a level to compete in the league, nor develop any sort of identity to what ISU football would hang its hat on. From an outsider looking in, trying to run an offense that is the same as what Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Okie State do is not a winning formula in the long run. It is darn-near impossible to recruit better skill position players than those schools given their inherent recruiting advantages when compared to ISU. I don't know what the exact answer would be (others have suggested running the option like Ga Tech does) but that's for the new coach to figure out.

Don't know what ISU should expect or can get if Pollard goes looking for a new coach. My guess is a guy like PJ Fleck would hold out for a "better" job, as would the guy from Memphis. My suggestion would be to find a Jerry Kill-like coach. Someone who could bring a staff, has won with less, knows how to coach and instill his way of playing into a program.

 

[RedAgentRadar]

Western Michigan head coach PJ Fleck.

PJ Fleck is too well positioned for a bigger time Power 5 school. There is so much movement right now with USC, SC, UCF openings and more to come...PJ is too smart to accept the Clown's OC or HC jobs.

 

[relishingwinning18]

I don't think anybody is suggesting the responsibility isn't the head coach's. He isn't suggesting that. Jamie isn't suggesting that. Hell, I haven't even seen any of us board idiots suggesting that.

And it ain't like the road ahead is paved with pussies. Two of our next three opponents probably will be in the Top Ten when we play them.

An in-season firing is clearly pointing the finger at someone, whether you want to believe it or not. Are you saying they didn't just play the toughest part of their schedule? Neither team will be top 10 by the time ISU plays them, Okie state plays TCU the week before(likely loss) and Okie has to jump 4 teams this week beating Kansas (unlikely). My point, and it sticks, is that they just got past the likely two biggest blowouts on the schedule. Fire your OC, you play games closer, and the idiot cult of ISU football fans, will believe there was improvement the second half of the season, once Rhoad's made that tough decision.

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

An in-season firing is clearly pointing the finger at someone, whether you want to believe it or not. Are you saying they didn't just play the toughest part of their schedule? Neither team will be top 10 by the time ISU plays them, Okie state plays TCU the week before(likely loss) and Okie has to jump 4 teams this week beating Kansas (unlikely). My point, and it sticks, is that they just got past the likely two biggest blowouts on the schedule. Fire your OC, you play games closer, and the idiot cult of ISU football fans, will believe there was improvement the second half of the season, once Rhoad's made that tough decision.

There's a lot of truth to this. And I'm not just talking about the idiot fan base part.

 

[gojojo]

PJ Fleck is too well positioned for a bigger time Power 5 school. There is so much movement right now with USC, SC, UCF openings and more to come...PJ is too smart to accept the Clown's OC or HC jobs.

Not saying the guy couldn't be a great HC, but what has Fleck done so far to make anyone think he is in-line for a top power 5 job? He has only been a HC for 3 years and has finished no higher than third in the MAC. If he would pass on ISU that would be a pretty good indicator of what ISU is up against in finding a quality HC.

 

[grosie#2]

The problem with ISU fans is they are satisfied with beating MAC teams and playing Big 12 teams close. The Clones beat Iowa and their season is a success. If the Big 12 should go under ISU fans will get what they want. An opportunity to beat MAC teams when they start playing in the MAC conference.

 

[Lone Clone]

Point 1: Bogus. You had us on the ropes in the first half, but you let us off when you punted on fourth and 1. You simply laid all your momentum on the field and walked away. We dominated you in the second half, it just took until the end for the scoreboard to reflect the on-field reality. Completely shut down by our defense and ground away by our offense.

Point 2: Bogus. Those are nothing but excuses. Washington State has been to the Rose Bowl. So have Indiana and Purdue. Iowa is in a bowl game most every year. Nebraska was made into a power for a long time and no one lives there. Wisconsin was brought from laughingstock to dominant. Colorado used to be tough and was voted joint national champs one year. Utah is finding its feet in the PAC-12. Flipping Boise State is the darling of the non-power schools, and is viewed as hip and fun and a rising power. How long should I continue? Which of these schools is in the middle
of rich recruiting soil? Heck, Navy wins more games and is more relevant than you, and you have nothing like the obstacles they overcome.

And money? Spare me. You're in a major football conference. You say Rhoads' buyout is no problem but then say money is a problem.

If those teams can do it, so can Iowa State. You just lack identity and the right coach. Think you can't get one? Yes, you can. Young up and comers would love the chance to prove their worth at a Power 5 school so they can earn a top gig. Is it ideal to be someone's stepping stone? No. Can you afford to be picky? No. Let the rising stars use you, but use their services to raise the stature of your program. The logic behind the Chizik hire was correct, it just turned out that Chizik wasn't actually a good coach.

Point 1: With 6 minutes to play, the score was tied and ISU had the ball. I think that's a pretty good definition of taking the game down to the wire.
Point 2: The line between an excuse and an explanation is a fine one. I can understand a disagreement about it. But I can't understand why you didn't read where I specifically said none of the reasons I listed excused the lack of excellence over the years at ISU.
Point 3: Do you not understand the difference between coming up with a few million bucks for a specific one-time purpose and funding a program in perpetuity? In any case, I was speaking historically about the resources. ISU currently has outstanding facilities, both practice and game-day, certainly good enough to support a winning program.
Point 4: We agree that there's no reason ISU can't get a good coach, even if he leaves after a few years.
Point 5: You have a point about the fan base setting the bar too low. Mac is a good example of that, IMHO. At most P5 schools, a coach whose first three years were 3-8, 2-9 and 1-10, in that order, would not have been given a fourth year. Not saying he shouldn't have been given the fourth year. Just saying it wouldn't have happened at most places.

 

[theIowaHawk]

He will be gone at the end of the season

Must be by private donations then, right? Will they really spend $4.5M to buy him out of AD money?

 

[Lone Clone]

An in-season firing is clearly pointing the finger at someone, whether you want to believe it or not. Are you saying they didn't just play the toughest part of their schedule? Neither team will be top 10 by the time ISU plays them, Okie state plays TCU the week before(likely loss) and Okie has to jump 4 teams this week beating Kansas (unlikely). My point, and it sticks, is that they just got past the likely two biggest blowouts on the schedule. Fire your OC, you play games closer, and the idiot cult of ISU football fans, will believe there was improvement the second half of the season, once Rhoad's made that tough decision.

Yes, it's pointing the finger at someone, but that doesn't mean anybody is saying the responsibility isn't the head coach's. For heaven's sake, who hired Mangino? Who established the criteria under which he would work?

I thought one of the polls had OU at #10 this week and another had OSU #10 and OU #12.

In any case, your statement about idiot ISU fans not understanding the importance of SOS is so hilarious coming from you on this board that I can't believe you were serious.

 

[theIowaHawk]

ISU took Iowa to the wire and should have won at Toledo, and both teams are unbeaten.

Wait, what? At best, at the most ISU-favored spot, they were up 17-10 with 32+ minutes left. Iowa then completely shut them down. ISU in the 2nd half went 3-out 4 times and 1 more time at the end using all 4 downs to gain 1 yard. Beside that they had the ball 3 more possessions for a total of 54 yards on 18 plays. They gained 66 yards total in the second half, just over 2 yards/play.

Which must, according to your "wire" mean that Iowa didn't move the ball either....except for 230 yards, 2 touchdowns....and a 3rd fumbled away in the 10.

How the f*** is that the wire?

 

[theIowaHawk]

PJ Fleck is too well positioned for a bigger time Power 5 school. There is so much movement right now with USC, SC, UCF openings and more to come...PJ is too smart to accept the Clown's OC or HC jobs.

See: Illinois.

 

[Lone Clone]

Interesting comment Lone. The obstacles in front of ISU are significant and cannot be ignored. All the more reason the school should likely move on from the current coach. Looking in the context of the decision to give Rhoads the extension, one can understand why it was done. At the time, Rhoads had made some bowl games, had success against Iowa, had upsets vs. Nebraska and Okie State, and perhaps most importantly, wanted to be at Iowa State for the long term.

What was not known at that time was that Rhoads would be unable to recruit at a level to compete in the league, nor develop any sort of identity to what ISU football would hang its hat on. From an outsider looking in, trying to run an offense that is the same as what Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Okie State do is not a winning formula in the long run. It is darn-near impossible to recruit better skill position players than those schools given their inherent recruiting advantages when compared to ISU. I don't know what the exact answer would be (others have suggested running the option like Ga Tech does) but that's for the new coach to figure out.

Don't know what ISU should expect or can get if Pollard goes looking for a new coach. My guess is a guy like PJ Fleck would hold out for a "better" job, as would the guy from Memphis. My suggestion would be to find a Jerry Kill-like coach. Someone who could bring a staff, has won with less, knows how to coach and instill his way of playing into a program.

Yup, and he also was being courted by at least one other school -- Pitt -- when his contract was renegotiated. Frankly, I get tired of ISU fans bitching about that. Same thing happened when Walden's contract was extended. One year, the fans are threatening to fire the AD if he doesn't extend the coach's contract; after a few bad years, the same fans want to fire the AD for doing what they wanted him to do.

Recruiting is absolutely the story, IMHO. The Rhoads staff missed on too many recruits. I don't mean they lost out on 4-stars; I mean they recruited too many 3-stars who never contributed. Or maybe they just failed to develop them.

 

[theIowaHawk]

ISU currently has outstanding facilities, both practice and game-day, certainly good enough to support a winning program.
.

"Outstanding" facilities? To be outstanding, don't they need to be well above the rest? Who are they that much better than? Anybody in the B12? B10? SEC? PAC12? ACC? Outstanding compared to Toledo?

 

[Lone Clone]

Wait, what? At best, at the most ISU-favored spot, they were up 17-10 with 32+ minutes left. Iowa then completely shut them down. ISU in the 2nd half went 3-out 4 times and 1 more time at the end using all 4 downs to gain 1 yard. Beside that they had the ball 3 more possessions for a total of 54 yards on 18 plays. They gained 66 yards total in the second half, just over 2 yards/play.

Which must, according to your "wire" mean that Iowa didn't move the ball either....except for 230 yards, 2 touchdowns....and a 3rd fumbled away in the 10.

How the f*** is that the wire?

Tied with 6 minutes left and ISU had the ball. WTF do you want to call it? For crissake, I am not saying Iowa wasn't the better team and/or didn't deserve to win and/or didn't dominate completely in the second half. What I'm saying is that regardless of whether it SHOULD have been, the game was in doubt until the final minutes.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I'm not joking when I say this. ISU should just hire a Paul Johnson disciple and run the flexbone. It would give them an identity and a bit of a recruiting niche.

This would be fun. Ken Niumatolo has to be seen as "available" from Navy, right? His team is fun to watch and generally plays the best defense of the three.

 

[Lone Clone]

"Outstanding" facilities? To be outstanding, don't they need to be well above the rest? Who are they that much better than? Anybody in the B12? B10? SEC? PAC12? ACC? Outstanding compared to Toledo?

When the weight room was new three or four years ago, it was among the best, if not the best, in the country. The indoor and outdoor practice facilities are first-rate. The stadium is the third largest in the league. Yeah, the facilities are outstanding.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Tied with 6 minutes left and ISU had the ball. WTF do you want to call it? For crissake, I am not saying Iowa wasn't the better team and/or didn't deserve to win and/or didn't dominate completely in the second half. What I'm saying is that regardless of whether it SHOULD have been, the game was in doubt until the final minutes.

Absurd that you call this a "wire" in any sense of the word. If you watched the second half, and I believe you did, what doubt did you have that Iowa would win?

 

[theIowaHawk]

When the weight room was new three or four years ago, it was among the best, if not the best, in the country. The indoor and outdoor practice facilities are first-rate. The stadium is the third largest in the league. Yeah, the facilities are outstanding.

What do you base this on? Your walkthrough? Articles you've read? I've never seen anything that says this, but I don't read that much ISU outside of the Register, so I'd love to see it.

 

[iahawkeyes17]

PJ Fleck is too well positioned for a bigger time Power 5 school. There is so much movement right now with USC, SC, UCF openings and more to come...PJ is too smart to accept the Clown's OC or HC jobs.

Good point. On Dan Patrick show they were talking about how this off season they are expecting more head coaching positions to be available in a long long time. He specifically mentioned how schools like Purdue and Iowa St may keep their coaches for one more season so have a shot at a better candidate the following year.

As for argument of ISU's schedule of losing to ranked teams look at the top 4 of the Big 12. None of them have played each other and they've been feasting off the Kansas, ISU's and Kansas States of the conference. People rip on Iowa who they've played those top 4 teams have not beat one team currently ranked. The best win maybe OU beating Tenn or WVU when they were both barely in top 25 at beginning of the year.

 

[theIowaHawk]

The stadium is the third largest in the league.

Eye roll. As of this year, capacity is what, 60k? So it is basically the same as Tech, OSU and WVU. Baylor's is brand new, but definitely smaller, and a lot nicer. So they've got TCU, Kansas and KState...maybe. That is, if you simply believe that capacity = "outstanding".

 

[Pepperman]

I heard that Mangino ate Rhoads leftover chicken that he had left in the coaches locker room refrigerator.

He was only able to do that because of a Hawkeye security guard though... just sayin...

 

[Lone Clone]

What do you base this on? Your walkthrough? Articles you've read? I've never seen anything that says this, but I don't read that much ISU outside of the Register, so I'd love to see it.

I base it on what was written about it when it opened. And comments like Seneca Wallace's that it was as good as anything he'd seen in the NFL. If a recruit picks another school over ISU, it's unlikely the reason is the difference in facilities.....which is what we're talking about.

Why don't you just take a chill pill and respond to what I actually said, if you want to respond to something? By virtually any standard, a game that's tied with 6 minutes to play is going down to the wire. And did I have any doubts at that point that Iowa would win? Uh, yes, because I'm not a moron. ISU had the ball, the score was tied, and earlier in the game the ISU offense had been effective. And let me give you a clue: Nobody on this board who isn't a moron thought Iowa was definitely going to win at that point. I would bet that if you went back and looked at the game thread you would see this was the case.

 

[theIowaHawk]

By virtually any standard, a game that's tied with 6 minutes to play is going down to the wire.

Absurd. There is a reason it is called a wire, and this ain't it.

Using this definition, I wonder how many games went down to the "wire" so far this season. Half? Higher?

 

[Lone Clone]

Good point. On Dan Patrick show they were talking about how this off season they are expecting more head coaching positions to be available in a long long time. He specifically mentioned how schools like Purdue and Iowa St may keep their coaches for one more season so have a shot at a better candidate the following year.

As for argument of ISU's schedule of losing to ranked teams look at the top 4 of the Big 12. None of them have played each other and they've been feasting off the Kansas, ISU's and Kansas States of the conference. People rip on Iowa who they've played those top 4 teams have not beat one team currently ranked. The best win maybe OU beating Tenn or WVU when they were both barely in top 25 at beginning of the year.

OK, sometimes on the board it's correct to use rankings, sometimes it isn't. Maybe there could be some kind of color code or secret password so it's clear which time is which. Iowa and Toledo weren't ranked when they beat ISU, so should one assume they aren't very good?

For the record, I have said I think TCU is rated too high because of the plethora of injuries that's hit their defense, especially the DBs.

I think the availability of candidates could well have more impact on Pollard's decision than the Rhoads buyout clause.

 

[Lone Clone]

Absurd. There is a reason it is called a wire, and this ain't it.

Using this definition, I wonder how many games went down to the "wire" so far this season. Half? Higher?

Have you been drinking?

 

[theIowaHawk]

To be more specific, ISU had the ball at the 9 minute mark, tied. They punted at 6:30 after moving the ball to the 37 (to their credit, much better than the rest of their 2nd half drives).

So, no, at the 6 minute mark Iowa had the ball while going 50 yards for a TD. ISU had the ball at the 2:14 mark, down 7, and proceeded to throw one completion - to Desmond King.

So from your "6 minute mark" Iowa had the ball and scored, ISU turned it over, Iowa had the ball and scored.

Based on that you must get very excited each Saturday with so many games all coming "down to the wire".

 

[Hawkirish]

When the weight room was new three or four years ago, it was among the best, if not the best, in the country. The indoor and outdoor practice facilities are first-rate. The stadium is the third largest in the league. Yeah, the facilities are outstanding.

I'd love to see some type of article that states ISU had the best weight room in all of college football, preferably not some bs from coach Rhoads, an ISU player or an ISU writer/website.

 

[grosie#2]

As far as ISU going down to the wire with the Hawks. It's a matter of appearance. The Clones offense became stagnant the 2nd half while Iowa's offense and defense came up with big plays when they had too.The Hawks made adjustments at half time and came out the more physical team with a better game plan. If I remember right the Hawks could of scored late in the game but sat on the ball so as not to run up the score. I could be wrong on that but in any case it was pretty clear who was the best coached team and who was the best team.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

Absurd. There is a reason it is called a wire, and this ain't it.

Using this definition, I wonder how many games went down to the "wire" so far this season. Half? Higher?

What is your problem? ^^ Essentially, all LC said was that ISU was in a competitive game with Iowa...which they were. Yes, Iowa outplayed ISU in the second half...but this was no runaway and the outcome was not secured until late in the game. Instead of arguing like a 7 year old about semantics, as in what's meant by "down to the wire"... why don't you post your definition of the game so that everyone else can use that and you don't have to get huffy about nothing?

 

[Dauminator]

Point 1: With 6 minutes to play, the score was tied and ISU had the ball. I think that's a pretty good definition of taking the game down to the wire.
Point 2: The line between an excuse and an explanation is a fine one. I can understand a disagreement about it. But I can't understand why you didn't read where I specifically said none of the reasons I listed excused the lack of excellence over the years at ISU.
Point 3: Do you not understand the difference between coming up with a few million bucks for a specific one-time purpose and funding a program in perpetuity? In any case, I was speaking historically about the resources. ISU currently has outstanding facilities, both practice and game-day, certainly good enough to support a winning program.
Point 4: We agree that there's no reason ISU can't get a good coach, even if he leaves after a few years.
Point 5: You have a point about the fan base setting the bar too low. Mac is a good example of that, IMHO. At most P5 schools, a coach whose first three years were 3-8, 2-9 and 1-10, in that order, would not have been given a fourth year. Not saying he shouldn't have been given the fourth year. Just saying it wouldn't have happened at most places.

On Point 1, it's fair that we'll view the game differently. Point 2, same thing-we see it differently. You claimed them to be explanations and I just see excuses. You are given some examples of programs that have reached great heights after doldrums similar to the state of ISU and dismiss them, if not for recruiting advantage then for this that or whatever reason. It's an identity problem. As much as you wish Iowa State would be a national power, you believe ISU incapable of it and will latch on to any reason to explain it away. It's totally understandable and it's the reason why cases like KSU and Baylor are so rare. And we can relate, we were there between Evashevski and Fry.

Point 3-I think it's easy to get crossed up in history and current status. When you say that ISU has historically lacked resources, and also say that a buyout means nothing and that current facilities and stadium are outstanding, it looks like double talk. And it supports my point in a way, that you may have a poor history, but good things can still happen. You found a way to fund a major stadium and facilities upgrade. You can find a way to improve on the field.

 

[CyCity]

Must be by private donations then, right? Will they really spend $4.5M to buy him out of AD money?

Pollard can't hire but he has no problem getting funds so that is the least of my worries. ISU will end the season 2-10 or 3-9 and Rhoads will be fired

 

[Vroom_C14]

Source???

Food bill reduced 74%

 

[hawkfan37]

LC. I'm with you here. If Iowa dominated that game, there should have been no worry in the 4th quarter. Yet my Butt cheeks were clenched until they punted on 4th and 1. Which was a bad decision on Iowa State, not something Iowa did. I felt good from there, but not getting the lead until there was 2 minutes left.. Come on.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I'm not joking when I say this. ISU should just hire a Paul Johnson disciple and run the flexbone. It would give them an identity and a bit of a recruiting niche.

I believe this too. In the big 12 with lesser talent you need to slow the game down. Run all play clocks down and go for it on 4th down a lot. I would see if you could get the guy from navy and pay him well to leave.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Essentially, all LC said was that ISU was in a competitive game with Iowa...which they were.

No, he didn't. He said it came "down to the wire". He could have said they were competitive. They were in the first half.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I'd love to see some type of article that states ISU had the best weight room in all of college football, preferably not some bs from coach Rhoads, an ISU player or an ISU writer/website.

Hell, I'd even take an Ames article, I found nothing in a quick google search. New =/= best.

They do have that VR "stand on the field during a game" thing to show prospects though.

 

[Lone Clone]

Hell, I'd even take an Ames article, I found nothing in a quick google search. New =/= best.

They do have that VR "stand on the field during a game" thing to show prospects though.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/iowa-state-goes-high-tech-weight-room-155129583.html

 

[hawkfan37]

Their might be so many disadvantages for ISU, but to lament on that Ithey might was well go to the MAC.
What about all the advantages they have over Memphis, Boise St, Temple. Look where TCU came in ten years. They overcame so many disadvantages. 10 years ago Baylor was what ISU is now. ISU can change as Wisconsin did 25 years ago. Hell they can go down to Texas and recruit guys to play against the other Texas schools. Iowa can't do that. But if they stick with Rhoads.... MAC.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Thank you.

 

[Lone Clone]

On Point 1, it's fair that we'll view the game differently. Point 2, same thing-we see it differently. You claimed them to be explanations and I just see excuses. You are given some examples of programs that have reached great heights after doldrums similar to the state of ISU and dismiss them, if not for recruiting advantage then for this that or whatever reason. It's an identity problem. As much as you wish Iowa State would be a national power, you believe ISU incapable of it and will latch on to any reason to explain it away. It's totally understandable and it's the reason why cases like KSU and Baylor are so rare. And we can relate, we were there between Evashevski and Fry.

Point 3-I think it's easy to get crossed up in history and current status. When you say that ISU has historically lacked resources, and also say that a buyout means nothing and that current facilities and stadium are outstanding, it looks like double talk. And it supports my point in a way, that you may have a poor history, but good things can still happen. You found a way to fund a major stadium and facilities upgrade. You can find a way to improve on the field.

I agree with the statement that we have a poor history and can still have a successful football program. I think it's unrealistic to think ISU can become a national power -- but then again, we could be using a different definition. If I didn't give that impression, my bad. My point is that historically, and today for some of the same reasons and some others, it is a more daunting task at ISU than at some other places.