Sanders vs the GOP
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
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I know the GOP is giddy to get Hillary out, but I think they would ultimately have a harder time with Bernie. The conversation has shifted towards a more populist tone with both parties. Backing the rich is out. Backing the middle class is in. Even the tax plans of both Bush and Rubio have ostensibly shown this. The problem the GOP has, however, is that Bernie is a more difficult candidate with this message. The working class is by far Bernies' strongest suit. But it's not particularly all that strong with Hillary.
I think the GOP should be careful with what they wish for here.
I think the GOP should be careful with what they wish for here.
If Hillary fades and Biden gets in, a Biden-Sanders ticket could be tough to beat. Each appeals to the working man in a different way.
The evidence I've seen is the opposite of this. The candidates who have any momentum right now are the ones that are appealing to policies that target the middle class. Sanders talking about income equality and investing in Americans and rebuilding the middle class. Even Trump, whose message pretty much revolves around getting rid of immigrants and forcing companies to bring jobs back to the United States....somehow...is singing a tune the middle class and poor want to hear. This is why establishment candidates like Hillary and Jeb Bush are having so much trouble getting any momentum and when they start to change their message a bit, people aren't buying it.
He's a Socialist. Trickle-Down
He's a Socialist that has a typical Robin Hood platform.
He has ideas for how to tax the wealthy and punish corporations. But after the Government collects all of that wealth he wont get that back to the middle class.
He can create more entitlement programs and build greater dependency, but that won't help the middle class either.
He's not about strengthening the middle class. He's about having only one class. A middle class.
He's a Socialist. Bringing everyone to the middle is what they do.
He's a Socialist that has a typical Robin Hood platform.
He has ideas for how to tax the wealthy and punish corporations. But after the Government collects all of that wealth he wont get that back to the middle class.
He can create more entitlement programs and build greater dependency, but that won't help the middle class either.
He's not about strengthening the middle class. He's about having only one class. A middle class.
He's a Socialist. Bringing everyone to the middle is what they do.
You may very well be right and it would be worth it to put the Clinton machine in the rear view mirror.
Disagree. Wait til the rest of America hears what Sanders has to say. The hardcore supporters are there right now. When people hear what he's all about, I would hope they'd come to their senses. He's advocating a 90% tax rate! for one. Then again, people elected Obama twice. As for Sanders, he's a Socialist. Enough said.
You know how I know even conservatives aren't hiding the fact that trickle-down economics is complete BS? They start using the word in an attempt to damage liberal ideas.
Gotta link for that 90% tax rate claim or are you just making it up? I'll go ahead and tell you not to bother looking on Bernie's campaign web site as there is no mention of this 90% tax rate claim.
Liberals do just fine damaging their own ideas. See Detroit, California, Illinois, New York etc. etc.
What? Sanders is recommending that everybody pay 90% in taxes?
That's what I figured at the beginning. But I'm now beginning to wonder if maybe a lot of Americans are actually receptive to his brand of uncombed sanity.
Sanders has stayed pretty relentlessly on target, is drawing good crowds, and only people too dumb to think after someone yells "socialism" are running away from his messages.
I wouldn't really put Mondale or Dukakis in the same boat, but McGovern is a reasonable comparison. All of them would have made for a better America than those who beat them. But America wasn't ready. Maybe we'll surprise ourselves this time.
I don't really expect it to happen, but I'm enjoying the ride.
The GOP is giving Sanders a wide berth for the obvious reason. But if Sanders won the Dem nomination they would unleash the dogs on him and his balloon would burst within weeks. They could resurrect Rick Perry from the dead and run him against Sanders and beat him 60-40...and I don't know how many electoral votes Vermont has but whatever that number is that would be his ceiling.
How would you vote? Could you honestly vote for guys like Cruz or Walker or most of those on the GOP side?
I assume you still favor Hillary. But suppose she doesn't get the nomination. Who do you like on each side?
No. Not yet.
But, much like an ice berg a candidate keeps 90% of his mass below water.
Especially during an election.
BHO was excellent at the Bait and Switch. So much so, that he collected my vote in 08'.
I caught on to the Gruberism's by 12'.
Sanders is the same. If he slips a little in, then he'll slide a little more in.
Before you know it you are getting willfully sodomized.
Yet Finland, Norway, and Sweden do great. See? I can cherry pick examples too.
I don't think Rand Paul wants to send any kids to Iran.
And, Bernie Sanders may say he wants to send your kids to college, but he's not going to be paying for it. Hey... I want to send your kids to college, but like Bernie, I can't afford to.
And, Bernie Sanders may say he wants to send your kids to college, but he's not going to be paying for it. Hey... I want to send your kids to college, but like Bernie, I can't afford to.
My examples are all on our soil. Throw in over 300 Indian reservations and tell me your Socialism dreams are not really nightmares.
What is it about those large cities that are Socialist? The problems on Indian reservations go way beyond economics, starting with alcoholism. That is almost certainly their number one problem. Even with that, some Indian reservations are doing well, perhaps because they don't have the burden of state regulation, see casinos, Indian reservation.
The root cause of alcoholism, depression, suicide on Indian reservation is collectivism.
Socialism on that level is soul crushing. You take a way a persons individual property, need to contribute, sense of purpose, dreams to build something and you will see the worst of the human condition.
That is the Socialist end-game. You attempt to give them everything, but you take from the everything.
"Arizona is home to 23 Indian tribes. If you drive on most of the reservations, you will find a carpet of broken liquor bottles lining the roads. You’ll find unemployment, poorly maintained communities, despair and broken families. The purpose for raising these points is not to belittle Indians, but to point out the root cause of this depressing story – socialism.
The system dominating Indian reservations in Arizona as well as other states is, according to author Wayne Grudem, a “broken, failed system that traps most Native Americans in perpetual poverty and perpetual alienation from the rest of American society.” That is an apt description of socialism’s end results.
Reservation land is owned by the tribes and managed by the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs. No one is allowed to own land, and no one has responsibility for any land. So there is no incentive for anyone to use the land for economic development.
Grudem writes: “The lack of personal property rights is highly significant, because the study of economic development in world history shows that the key to economic growth among any people in any part of the world is enabling individuals to be able to obtain clearly documented ownership to their own property.”
Private ownership of land encourages land owners to care for, improve and develop their land. That’s how the economy grows and flourishes. It’s how people escape poverty – by gaining employment, developing opportunities and feeding and clothing their families.
“But unless a system of private ownership of property can be instituted, American tribes will simply continue trapping their people in poverty forever,” Grudem wrote.
Native Americans overwhelmingly vote in support of the champions of socialism – advancing the socialist tradition of Democrat presidents Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama — won 75 percent of the Native American vote in swing states.
Yet what has this blind support gained the 4.3 million Native Americans in America?
- Generational poverty; 32 percent living below poverty level
- Unemployment 2.5 times the national rate
- Alcoholism death rate seven times the national average; an estimated 75 percent of suicides, 80 percent of homicides and 65 percent of motor vehicle deaths among Native Americans involve alcohol
- 54-percent high school graduation rate
- 80 percent of fourth-graders unable to read proficiently
- Higher rates of child abuse and battered women
If Sanders were the Democratic nominee and Jeb or Kasich were the GOP nominee I would vote for either of them instead of Bernie. Cruz, Walker, Huck, Carson etc. would not get my vote.
Whoever wrote this tripe has a very poor understanding of socialism.
Rand should be against attacking Iran, and almost certainly should be for the Iran deal. But unless he's changed his position, he opposes the Iran deal.
What does President Rand Paul do when Iran (without the deal) builds a nuke?
It would be a perfectly legit libertarian position to say that's none of our business. But is that his position? Somehow I think not - if it is and it ever got out, he'd be toast.
Why do cons get so excited about displaying their lack of comprehension?
EVERYBODY understands that these services and benefits come from tax money and debt. Everybody, that is, except cons. Apparently.
We understand that cons would rather give "free" tax breaks to the well off. We also understand that these come from tax revenues and debt. We choose to apply our tax and borrowed money to a world class education system. Cons prefer war and enriching the already rich.
I think the Iran Deal is crappy, too.
I think the entire foreign policy of this country is poorly done and operating on behalf of the highest bidders with the most influence.
President Paul would do the same thing President Sanders would do if Iran got a Nuke... whatever he's told to do.
Bernie Claus's bag of gifts is actually empty.
While I agree that those 2 look like the most respectable Rs in the race, why would you choose them over Bernie?
Why do you think the Iran deal is crappy? Seems pretty reasonable to me.
I can't speak for these so-called "cons", but I don't think everybody does understand about tax money and debt. I'd love to see all the money used for empire and war go into education, humanities and arts. This isn't Holland, or Sweden. The USA is 50 little countries trying to NOT be one big country. Sanders can't deliver on these things, just like every other lefty that tries to promise such things. They can't deliver because they live in a country where those things are NOT the priority! And, they live in a country where there are 50 little countries that don't allow for the same balance and structure as the countries in Europe.
Not to mention, this country's economy is now so dependent upon military action, you can kiss that free education, healthcare, whatever, good bye! You'll never have a European Country model here... ever!
Yeah, exactly right.......The old fart Bernie with the same old one issue message........"the rich have the power......the poor are subservient". Why doesn't he run as a socialist?....he uses the Democratic party and his line of bull because socialism doesn't fly......according to the socialsts, he's not even a good socialist. Liberals actually think he can win?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...948256-3145-11e5-97ae-30a30cca95d7_story.html
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I don't see how Hillary can win. Our system is such a mess. Sanders will have trouble because Americans vote on the basis of things like who is taller.
Calling the reservations socialism is a joke. The reservation system is a joke. But if it fits your narrative, so be it.
I love the free 2 years of junior college idea. Its a major investment in our population that benefits almost everyone and is not welfare. Also, it will cost a lot less than the Middle East wars the Republicans would drag us into.
Calling the reservations socialism is a joke. The reservation system is a joke. But if it fits your narrative, so be it.
I love the free 2 years of junior college idea. Its a major investment in our population that benefits almost everyone and is not welfare. Also, it will cost a lot less than the Middle East wars the Republicans would drag us into.
That's a meaningless comment that applies equally to every candidate and his promises. Sure, you could argue that Bernie would have a harder time getting Congress to approve his goals than, say, plundering the planet like we are already doing. But is that really a good argument against him?
Would you rather have a president who fails to deliver many of the good things he stands for or a president who succeeds in delivering the war, restricted rights, and social and environmental devastation he stands for?
I realize you don't think the money should be spent on some of the things Bernie advocates. But that money IS going to be spent. Put that way, would you rather it be spent on an overly ambitious educational system or on an overly aggressive war machine. On tax breaks for the rich or on reining in the power of money to buy our political system? And so on.
With few if any exceptions, every candidate is going to spend all the money - tax revenues and borrowed money. Which promises do you want that money spent on?
No, I actually would love to see this country invest in it's education, humanities and arts. I'd love to see all countries do that more. That would be awesome. But, you need change the core beliefs for that to ever happen. Changing behaviors only works for a little while, if at all. The economy of this country is immersed in military and war.
My bad. "Crappy" is too harsh. These deals are always inferior. Not to mention, the situation is very complex and addressing it in a simplistic way seems like a recipe for disaster, but they have to address it. So, go for it.
I think Rand Paul likes to play jump-through-the-political-hoop a lot. He's nowhere near as principled as his father. And, his father's adherence to principles are what made his father so appealing to the vast numbers that agreed with what he said. Rand hasn't displayed much adherence to principles and whenever he cops one of his dad's lines, it sounds like plagiarism.
