Shot Clock discussion. Thank God we have it for CBB. What about High School?
- Thread starter Franisdaman
- Start date
That's a blanket statement, though, when you think about it.
Also, a. you don't know what I'm going to say in response to your opinion (outside of it being the truth.......which leads to-)
b. what I'm saying is the truth. Kind like how adding a shot clock is unnecessary.
Now like I said before.....I'll stop there, because I like a fair fight.
Doesn’t really matter at this point does it? Looks like it’s a done deal.That's a blanket statement, though, when you think about it.
Also, a. you don't know what I'm going to say in response to your opinion (outside of it being the truth.......which leads to-)
b. what I'm saying is the truth. Kind like how adding a shot clock is unnecessary.
Now like I said before.....I'll stop there, because I like a fair fight.
Good story.
Most are excited/happy that a shot clock is finally here.
Most are excited/happy that a shot clock is finally here.
"If people are hoping to go to the next level, they're going to have to get used to it."
Lol yep that's the typical excuse I've been hearing for years.
And what about all the thousands of kids that aren't?
They can stand & hold the ball for six minutes like you'd prefer. You must love those 6-4 final scores. That's real basketball baby!
No, I don't believe in stall ball, but I'm also amused you think high school athletics exist for your entertainment.........
I can play that game too.
I’m sure you’ve stated it here before, but I guess I don’t understand your argument against the shot clock?
I'll simplify my much longer argument into three reasons:
A. It's unnecessary
2. They're doing it to eliminate one minor facet of the game so that 4A teams will stop playing stall ball at State........because fans complain its boring.
And finally........
Because it's f***ing unnecessary.
You're welcome.
It kind of sounds like you don’t have anything against the shot clock, just don’t like change!I'll simplify my much longer argument into three reasons:
A. It's unnecessary
2. They're doing it to eliminate one minor facet of the game so that 4A teams will stop playing stall ball at State........because fans complain its boring.
And finally........
Because it's f***ing unnecessary.
You're welcome.
I don't have anything against coaching it.......
I take exception to unnecessarily trying to speed the game up when there's not a lot of balance in terms of ability at this level and any level below that.
What does anyone need a shot clock for when playing the Newell-Fonda girls basketball team. They press full court the whole game, and ball chase with 2 defenders because they can and because they play faster than most everyone else.
You'll either turn the ball over or force a shot up quick thinking you broke their pressure. So what use was the shot clock, other than for the company that made it (and whoever installs it) to turn a profit?
And a team like Newell-Fonda is like "meh" towards a shot clock.
It's an unnecessary cost and addition to this level of play, just like anything else involving "change for the sake of change" as if it's some tried and true f***ing rule that all change is good.............
I know the game of basketball enough to know it's not necessary at this level.
Fair points! I wasn’t disagreeing btw, just have noticed that you are outspoken against the shot clock when the discussion is brought up and was curious on your rationale.
I coach an 8th grade team, and can definitely empathize with there being no need for a shot clock because the players aren’t skilled enough to handle it. It’s been a while since I’ve been to a high school game, but when I do, it’s Class A (highest class) boys in Nebraska so the quality of basketball is usually pretty high to the point where a shot clock can be more necessary. I suppose there is a gap big enough between my 8th graders and class A in Nebraska to make a strong enough argument against the shot clock
Yeah well here's how my conversation about the shot clock would go with Mr. Sears........
Lol. Is the defense that afraid to get scored on by the team that clearly wants to avoid scoring?..................
Oh yeah, this is the way basketball was meant to be played. This is bball porn for you!
When I see H/S coaches like this I have a hard time taking them seriously as a coach bc if they feel they need to resort to carnival game tactics to win then you know they are the wrong person for the job.
These include:
1. Basketball "stall guy" (these examples)
2. Baseball "we can will bunt our way to a title guy" (8U coach who somehow elevated to H/S position)
If you feel you need to carnival game to get a win you didn't do a good enough job getting your guys ready.
These include:
1. Basketball "stall guy" (these examples)
2. Baseball "we can will bunt our way to a title guy" (8U coach who somehow elevated to H/S position)
If you feel you need to carnival game to get a win you didn't do a good enough job getting your guys ready.
Or the defenses could get out of the zone and play tough man to man defense. There is still a 5 second closely guarded call in HS basketball.
Put in a shot clock & get rid of the 5 second call. Stall-ball needs to end & refs inconsistent of what's "closely guarded" & when enough separation to re-start count.
just saw this today and apologize for responding to such an old post! however sir, these are great pts, and may I add: I Coached at the HS/MS level for 30 yrs. Then started officiating and currently do so in HS and the NCAA/NAIA. From a Coaching perspective I've been on both ends...either not having enough talent to compete with a faster team thus trying to reduce possessions to stay in a game...why would you want to eliminate that possible intangible strategy that could keep a less talented team in a game as opposed to getting in a track meet they can't win and end up with a running clock? Essentially, the shot clock is like a full court press to teams that are already quick defensively....do we really want that? A very, very small % of HS kids will play at the next level so the argument of "preparation" for the "next" level is preposterous. As mentioned above, this will NOT in anyway help bad teams which in this state and Illinois(who likely will have it next season as well) are the majority in all classifications...all it will do is speed up teams that can't speed up...that's just a reality...so do we want bad teams who can't create space and or shoot doing it faster?...how about parents watching their boys/girls? Is this really entertaining for them?.. From an execution standpoint it is multi faceted. At least 2 or 3x's in every collegiate game that I work we have shot clock discussions/controversy and below the D1 level do not have monitor review help on a reset, etc.... COST, we must find someone that is competent enough to run a shot clock(just finding competent people to run the table and game clock is always a challenge), only a handful of us(NCAA officials) officiate at the HS level and we will be the ones responsible for trying to teach the majority the mechanics/ins and outs of how to officiate with a shot clock(this is monumental and please do not discount the complexity of)not to mention multiple meetings with all Coaches/ADs and schools. We are SO short on officials at the HS level that games are being cancelled in every sport because of, so we don't have that extra official that can be at games and monitor and help teach... Ultimately, the idea of a shot clock sounds sexy...but what is it really accomplishing? Elite athletes at the collegiate and professional levels have the ability to incorporate this into their games. It's not just the cost of implementation but how many gyms/courts for tournaments? Many HS struggle just to pay officials and table personnel. What fee should be paid to an individual to be strictly a shot clock operator? Again, the complexity is much more difficult. Also, just IMHO the IHSAA could give a rat's ass about the entirety of all sports officials in the state of Iowa. Their main and only concern is the state tournaments and they'll admit as much. This shot clock is for their tournament, nothing else. Training HS officials(and as a young man or woman wants to put up with the garbage they get?) is at an all time low pt. We have a few great volunteers(ex officials) that will put their time in for a get together for training but we just do not have enough new people interested and the ones that are and have any ability will advance to the collegiate level very quickly
This.....have a player step up and force a count.
Preface - in these situations, the team who refuses to leave a zone is just as guilty as the team holding the ball. Neither team thought they were good enough to actually play the game and win, so they both resorted to ridiciulous tactics.
Additionally, there will undoubtedly be issues with running the shot clock. But its not like there aren't already clock issues. Every needs to accept that this is high school sports, run basically by volunteers at most schools, most refs aren't professionals and are going to screw up, and just be optimistic that everyone is doing their best. I'm a hard pass on instant replay in HS sports.
All that said, responses to a few select statements:
why would you want to eliminate that possible intangible strategy that could keep a less talented team in a game
Because in most games, there is an implicit call to try to win the game a certain way, not to look for technicalities to win (as much as i actually like exploiting little known rules. In a HS football game we called for a fair catch at the end of a half to try a 50 yard free kick.. unfortunately it failed pretty miserably). I would agree that that alone isn't enough, and would support a professional team doing such a tactic if allowed, given it is their job to win (along with entertaining). In High School however, winning at whatever cost/tactic shouldn't be the focus.
how about parents watching their boys/girls? Is this really entertaining for them?.
Are you really arguing that a team holding the ball for 40% of the game is more entertaining than the alternative. As a competitor, I am pretty sure I would refuse to participate in such a charade (short of the end of the game situations). I would feel the same way coaching, or as a parent.
Last edited:
The shot clock will widen the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots".
Most kids don't want to be on teams that consistently lose.
In the end, I think participation will drop some.
And I agree that officials will find a way to worsen the problem.
Officiating continually is getting worse.
Most kids don't want to be on teams that consistently lose.
In the end, I think participation will drop some.
And I agree that officials will find a way to worsen the problem.
Officiating continually is getting worse.
4-2 sounds like a great game!
Story from today.
By Michael Levenson New York Times
FEBRUARY 15, 2023 — 7:35AM
These schools in Oklahoma played a game recently that ended with a 4-2 final score.
Something strange happened during a recent high school basketball game in Oklahoma.
The home team, the Weatherford High School Eagles, controlled the tip-off and immediately missed a three-pointer. Then the visiting Anadarko High School Warriors grabbed the rebound and slowed the game down — way, way down.
For nearly the entire game, Anadarko played "stall ball" — passing the ball back and forth in the backcourt as the seconds dripped by like molasses, fans shouted scattered boos and the cheerleaders gamely stuck to their routines on the sidelines.
The final score, after four eight-minute quarters, looked nothing like the high-scoring games that have defined the NBA this season: Weatherford beat Anadarko, 4-2.
The absurdly low score has renewed debate about whether high school basketball needs a shot clock to keep the game moving.
Seventeen states and the District of Columbia use shot clocks in some or all high school games, and two more — including Minnesota — plan to use them starting next season. Oklahoma rejected them last month, citing the cost of the clocks, among other factors.
After the Anadarko-Weatherford game last Tuesday, some are questioning whether that was the right move.
"What are we doing here in Oklahoma?" Bryan Keating, the sports director at KOCO-TV in Oklahoma City, wrote on Twitter. "We have to play with a shot clock. The players deserve a whole lot better than this."
The game tested the patience not only of the fans who packed into Weatherford's gymnasium but also the local television announcer, Chuck Ramsey, who repeated the names of the Anadarko players as they tossed the ball around in what he called a game of "keep away."
"Not the best friend of a play-by-play announcer on this type of offense," Mr. Ramsey said.
The game underscored one of the reasons the National Federation of State High School Associations, the governing body for most high school sports, voted last year to allow states to use a 35-second shot clock.
Proponents say the clock, by forcing the offense to try to score within a certain period of time, prevents teams from sitting on the ball to kill time, especially if they have a lead with only a few minutes left in the fourth quarter.
"It changes end-of-the-game situations," said Joe Ortiz, who has won four state championships as head coach of the boys' basketball team at ThunderRidge High School in Highlands Ranch, Colo. "People holding ball like that — that's not the current game of basketball. It doesn't make sense."
It once did.
Before the NBA adopted a 24-second shot clock in 1954, the league was plagued by slow, low-scoring games. In 1950, the Fort Wayne Pistons beat the Minneapolis Lakers 19-18 in the lowest-scoring league game on record. Fans were not impressed.
After several years of experimentation, the NCAA adopted a 45-second clock in 1985, pushed in part by a 1978 Sun Belt Conference championship game that ended with a score of 22-20. The NCAA cut the shot clock to 30 seconds in 2015.
"The shot clock was about making the game more exciting for spectators," said Pamela Grundy, an independent historian and co-author of "Shattering The Glass: The Remarkable History of Women's Basketball."
But thrilling fans is not always a priority in high school sports.
Grant Gower, assistant director of the Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association, which oversees high school sports in the state, said the board voted 8-7 last month against the use of shot clocks in basketball.
He said that board members cited the cost of the clocks, the expense of paying someone to operate them and the training for referees to enforce the time limit. Prices vary, but a set of two clocks can cost between $2,000 and $11,000, he said.
"I know it will be addressed again and not in response to the 4-to-2 game but in terms of what the schools want to do," Gower said, adding that the low score "sure brings an awareness of situations like this that are completely within the rules of the game."
Some have speculated that Anadarko's coach, Doug Schumpert, a member of the Oklahoma Coaches Association Hall of Fame, was merely deploying an old-school "freeze the ball" strategy to keep his ninth-ranked team close to third-ranked Weatherford. Indeed, Anadarko almost won with a three-pointer at the buzzer.
Schumpert did not respond to an email seeking comment.
Derrick Bull, Weatherford's coach, faced questions about why the Eagles had not tried to trap the ball and force turnovers. He did not respond to an email, but he pointed out in an interview with WWLS, a local radio station, that his team never trailed after going up 2-0 in the second quarter.
"Once we got the lead, we were pretty content to let them do what they were going to do because we were confident that if they were ever able to tie it, we could go down and execute and score," Bull said. "Even though we didn't have the ball, we felt like we were in control of the game, as long as we had the lead."
Bull told WWLS that he was "never too much for, or too much against" the shot clock.
Playing without one can give lesser teams a "fighting chance," he said, but having one "improves quality of play" and makes it "more entertaining" for players and fans, he said.
"I was definitely for the shot clock last night, I will put it that way," he said.
www.startribune.com
Story from today.
Final score: 4-2. 'Stall ball' provides more fuel for high school basketball shot clock debate
Minnesota will join the states adding a shot clock for high school basketball next season. A game like this one speaks to the reason why many people think that's necessary.By Michael Levenson New York Times
FEBRUARY 15, 2023 — 7:35AM
These schools in Oklahoma played a game recently that ended with a 4-2 final score.
Something strange happened during a recent high school basketball game in Oklahoma.
The home team, the Weatherford High School Eagles, controlled the tip-off and immediately missed a three-pointer. Then the visiting Anadarko High School Warriors grabbed the rebound and slowed the game down — way, way down.
For nearly the entire game, Anadarko played "stall ball" — passing the ball back and forth in the backcourt as the seconds dripped by like molasses, fans shouted scattered boos and the cheerleaders gamely stuck to their routines on the sidelines.
The final score, after four eight-minute quarters, looked nothing like the high-scoring games that have defined the NBA this season: Weatherford beat Anadarko, 4-2.
The absurdly low score has renewed debate about whether high school basketball needs a shot clock to keep the game moving.
Seventeen states and the District of Columbia use shot clocks in some or all high school games, and two more — including Minnesota — plan to use them starting next season. Oklahoma rejected them last month, citing the cost of the clocks, among other factors.
After the Anadarko-Weatherford game last Tuesday, some are questioning whether that was the right move.
"What are we doing here in Oklahoma?" Bryan Keating, the sports director at KOCO-TV in Oklahoma City, wrote on Twitter. "We have to play with a shot clock. The players deserve a whole lot better than this."
The game tested the patience not only of the fans who packed into Weatherford's gymnasium but also the local television announcer, Chuck Ramsey, who repeated the names of the Anadarko players as they tossed the ball around in what he called a game of "keep away."
"Not the best friend of a play-by-play announcer on this type of offense," Mr. Ramsey said.
The game underscored one of the reasons the National Federation of State High School Associations, the governing body for most high school sports, voted last year to allow states to use a 35-second shot clock.
Proponents say the clock, by forcing the offense to try to score within a certain period of time, prevents teams from sitting on the ball to kill time, especially if they have a lead with only a few minutes left in the fourth quarter.
"It changes end-of-the-game situations," said Joe Ortiz, who has won four state championships as head coach of the boys' basketball team at ThunderRidge High School in Highlands Ranch, Colo. "People holding ball like that — that's not the current game of basketball. It doesn't make sense."
It once did.
Before the NBA adopted a 24-second shot clock in 1954, the league was plagued by slow, low-scoring games. In 1950, the Fort Wayne Pistons beat the Minneapolis Lakers 19-18 in the lowest-scoring league game on record. Fans were not impressed.
After several years of experimentation, the NCAA adopted a 45-second clock in 1985, pushed in part by a 1978 Sun Belt Conference championship game that ended with a score of 22-20. The NCAA cut the shot clock to 30 seconds in 2015.
"The shot clock was about making the game more exciting for spectators," said Pamela Grundy, an independent historian and co-author of "Shattering The Glass: The Remarkable History of Women's Basketball."
But thrilling fans is not always a priority in high school sports.
Grant Gower, assistant director of the Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association, which oversees high school sports in the state, said the board voted 8-7 last month against the use of shot clocks in basketball.
He said that board members cited the cost of the clocks, the expense of paying someone to operate them and the training for referees to enforce the time limit. Prices vary, but a set of two clocks can cost between $2,000 and $11,000, he said.
"I know it will be addressed again and not in response to the 4-to-2 game but in terms of what the schools want to do," Gower said, adding that the low score "sure brings an awareness of situations like this that are completely within the rules of the game."
Some have speculated that Anadarko's coach, Doug Schumpert, a member of the Oklahoma Coaches Association Hall of Fame, was merely deploying an old-school "freeze the ball" strategy to keep his ninth-ranked team close to third-ranked Weatherford. Indeed, Anadarko almost won with a three-pointer at the buzzer.
Schumpert did not respond to an email seeking comment.
Derrick Bull, Weatherford's coach, faced questions about why the Eagles had not tried to trap the ball and force turnovers. He did not respond to an email, but he pointed out in an interview with WWLS, a local radio station, that his team never trailed after going up 2-0 in the second quarter.
"Once we got the lead, we were pretty content to let them do what they were going to do because we were confident that if they were ever able to tie it, we could go down and execute and score," Bull said. "Even though we didn't have the ball, we felt like we were in control of the game, as long as we had the lead."
Bull told WWLS that he was "never too much for, or too much against" the shot clock.
Playing without one can give lesser teams a "fighting chance," he said, but having one "improves quality of play" and makes it "more entertaining" for players and fans, he said.
"I was definitely for the shot clock last night, I will put it that way," he said.
Final score: 4-2. 'Stall ball' provides more fuel for high school basketball shot clock debate
Minnesota will join the states adding a shot clock for high school basketball next season. A game like this one speaks to the reason why many people think that's necessary.
www.startribune.com
The Illinois High School Association experimented with a 35 second shot clock during tournament games and shootouts this year and will be going with the 35 second shot clock for all games next year. Added expense for all the schools but it's "about time".
Not sure if they will use the shot clock during this years post season games.
Not sure if they will use the shot clock during this years post season games.
4-2 sounds like a great game!
Story from today.
Final score: 4-2. 'Stall ball' provides more fuel for high school basketball shot clock debate
Minnesota will join the states adding a shot clock for high school basketball next season. A game like this one speaks to the reason why many people think that's necessary.
By Michael Levenson New York Times
FEBRUARY 15, 2023 — 7:35AM
These schools in Oklahoma played a game recently that ended with a 4-2 final score.
Something strange happened during a recent high school basketball game in Oklahoma.
The home team, the Weatherford High School Eagles, controlled the tip-off and immediately missed a three-pointer. Then the visiting Anadarko High School Warriors grabbed the rebound and slowed the game down — way, way down.
For nearly the entire game, Anadarko played "stall ball" — passing the ball back and forth in the backcourt as the seconds dripped by like molasses, fans shouted scattered boos and the cheerleaders gamely stuck to their routines on the sidelines.
The final score, after four eight-minute quarters, looked nothing like the high-scoring games that have defined the NBA this season: Weatherford beat Anadarko, 4-2.
The absurdly low score has renewed debate about whether high school basketball needs a shot clock to keep the game moving.
Seventeen states and the District of Columbia use shot clocks in some or all high school games, and two more — including Minnesota — plan to use them starting next season. Oklahoma rejected them last month, citing the cost of the clocks, among other factors.
After the Anadarko-Weatherford game last Tuesday, some are questioning whether that was the right move.
"What are we doing here in Oklahoma?" Bryan Keating, the sports director at KOCO-TV in Oklahoma City, wrote on Twitter. "We have to play with a shot clock. The players deserve a whole lot better than this."
The game tested the patience not only of the fans who packed into Weatherford's gymnasium but also the local television announcer, Chuck Ramsey, who repeated the names of the Anadarko players as they tossed the ball around in what he called a game of "keep away."
"Not the best friend of a play-by-play announcer on this type of offense," Mr. Ramsey said.
The game underscored one of the reasons the National Federation of State High School Associations, the governing body for most high school sports, voted last year to allow states to use a 35-second shot clock.
Proponents say the clock, by forcing the offense to try to score within a certain period of time, prevents teams from sitting on the ball to kill time, especially if they have a lead with only a few minutes left in the fourth quarter.
"It changes end-of-the-game situations," said Joe Ortiz, who has won four state championships as head coach of the boys' basketball team at ThunderRidge High School in Highlands Ranch, Colo. "People holding ball like that — that's not the current game of basketball. It doesn't make sense."
It once did.
Before the NBA adopted a 24-second shot clock in 1954, the league was plagued by slow, low-scoring games. In 1950, the Fort Wayne Pistons beat the Minneapolis Lakers 19-18 in the lowest-scoring league game on record. Fans were not impressed.
After several years of experimentation, the NCAA adopted a 45-second clock in 1985, pushed in part by a 1978 Sun Belt Conference championship game that ended with a score of 22-20. The NCAA cut the shot clock to 30 seconds in 2015.
"The shot clock was about making the game more exciting for spectators," said Pamela Grundy, an independent historian and co-author of "Shattering The Glass: The Remarkable History of Women's Basketball."
But thrilling fans is not always a priority in high school sports.
Grant Gower, assistant director of the Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association, which oversees high school sports in the state, said the board voted 8-7 last month against the use of shot clocks in basketball.
He said that board members cited the cost of the clocks, the expense of paying someone to operate them and the training for referees to enforce the time limit. Prices vary, but a set of two clocks can cost between $2,000 and $11,000, he said.
"I know it will be addressed again and not in response to the 4-to-2 game but in terms of what the schools want to do," Gower said, adding that the low score "sure brings an awareness of situations like this that are completely within the rules of the game."
Some have speculated that Anadarko's coach, Doug Schumpert, a member of the Oklahoma Coaches Association Hall of Fame, was merely deploying an old-school "freeze the ball" strategy to keep his ninth-ranked team close to third-ranked Weatherford. Indeed, Anadarko almost won with a three-pointer at the buzzer.
Schumpert did not respond to an email seeking comment.
Derrick Bull, Weatherford's coach, faced questions about why the Eagles had not tried to trap the ball and force turnovers. He did not respond to an email, but he pointed out in an interview with WWLS, a local radio station, that his team never trailed after going up 2-0 in the second quarter.
"Once we got the lead, we were pretty content to let them do what they were going to do because we were confident that if they were ever able to tie it, we could go down and execute and score," Bull said. "Even though we didn't have the ball, we felt like we were in control of the game, as long as we had the lead."
Bull told WWLS that he was "never too much for, or too much against" the shot clock.
Playing without one can give lesser teams a "fighting chance," he said, but having one "improves quality of play" and makes it "more entertaining" for players and fans, he said.
"I was definitely for the shot clock last night, I will put it that way," he said.
Final score: 4-2. 'Stall ball' provides more fuel for high school basketball shot clock debate
Minnesota will join the states adding a shot clock for high school basketball next season. A game like this one speaks to the reason why many people think that's necessary.
Having been on the receiving end of a few extremely lopsided scores early in my HS career, I'd rather lose 86-24 than 4-2 (while doing the stall tactic).
Needed to down a Pepsi while reading that........4-2 sounds like a great game!
Story from today.
Final score: 4-2. 'Stall ball' provides more fuel for high school basketball shot clock debate
Minnesota will join the states adding a shot clock for high school basketball next season. A game like this one speaks to the reason why many people think that's necessary.
By Michael Levenson New York Times
FEBRUARY 15, 2023 — 7:35AM
These schools in Oklahoma played a game recently that ended with a 4-2 final score.
Something strange happened during a recent high school basketball game in Oklahoma.
The home team, the Weatherford High School Eagles, controlled the tip-off and immediately missed a three-pointer. Then the visiting Anadarko High School Warriors grabbed the rebound and slowed the game down — way, way down.
For nearly the entire game, Anadarko played "stall ball" — passing the ball back and forth in the backcourt as the seconds dripped by like molasses, fans shouted scattered boos and the cheerleaders gamely stuck to their routines on the sidelines.
The final score, after four eight-minute quarters, looked nothing like the high-scoring games that have defined the NBA this season: Weatherford beat Anadarko, 4-2.
The absurdly low score has renewed debate about whether high school basketball needs a shot clock to keep the game moving.
Seventeen states and the District of Columbia use shot clocks in some or all high school games, and two more — including Minnesota — plan to use them starting next season. Oklahoma rejected them last month, citing the cost of the clocks, among other factors.
After the Anadarko-Weatherford game last Tuesday, some are questioning whether that was the right move.
"What are we doing here in Oklahoma?" Bryan Keating, the sports director at KOCO-TV in Oklahoma City, wrote on Twitter. "We have to play with a shot clock. The players deserve a whole lot better than this."
The game tested the patience not only of the fans who packed into Weatherford's gymnasium but also the local television announcer, Chuck Ramsey, who repeated the names of the Anadarko players as they tossed the ball around in what he called a game of "keep away."
"Not the best friend of a play-by-play announcer on this type of offense," Mr. Ramsey said.
The game underscored one of the reasons the National Federation of State High School Associations, the governing body for most high school sports, voted last year to allow states to use a 35-second shot clock.
Proponents say the clock, by forcing the offense to try to score within a certain period of time, prevents teams from sitting on the ball to kill time, especially if they have a lead with only a few minutes left in the fourth quarter.
"It changes end-of-the-game situations," said Joe Ortiz, who has won four state championships as head coach of the boys' basketball team at ThunderRidge High School in Highlands Ranch, Colo. "People holding ball like that — that's not the current game of basketball. It doesn't make sense."
It once did.
Before the NBA adopted a 24-second shot clock in 1954, the league was plagued by slow, low-scoring games. In 1950, the Fort Wayne Pistons beat the Minneapolis Lakers 19-18 in the lowest-scoring league game on record. Fans were not impressed.
After several years of experimentation, the NCAA adopted a 45-second clock in 1985, pushed in part by a 1978 Sun Belt Conference championship game that ended with a score of 22-20. The NCAA cut the shot clock to 30 seconds in 2015.
"The shot clock was about making the game more exciting for spectators," said Pamela Grundy, an independent historian and co-author of "Shattering The Glass: The Remarkable History of Women's Basketball."
But thrilling fans is not always a priority in high school sports.
Grant Gower, assistant director of the Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association, which oversees high school sports in the state, said the board voted 8-7 last month against the use of shot clocks in basketball.
He said that board members cited the cost of the clocks, the expense of paying someone to operate them and the training for referees to enforce the time limit. Prices vary, but a set of two clocks can cost between $2,000 and $11,000, he said.
"I know it will be addressed again and not in response to the 4-to-2 game but in terms of what the schools want to do," Gower said, adding that the low score "sure brings an awareness of situations like this that are completely within the rules of the game."
Some have speculated that Anadarko's coach, Doug Schumpert, a member of the Oklahoma Coaches Association Hall of Fame, was merely deploying an old-school "freeze the ball" strategy to keep his ninth-ranked team close to third-ranked Weatherford. Indeed, Anadarko almost won with a three-pointer at the buzzer.
Schumpert did not respond to an email seeking comment.
Derrick Bull, Weatherford's coach, faced questions about why the Eagles had not tried to trap the ball and force turnovers. He did not respond to an email, but he pointed out in an interview with WWLS, a local radio station, that his team never trailed after going up 2-0 in the second quarter.
"Once we got the lead, we were pretty content to let them do what they were going to do because we were confident that if they were ever able to tie it, we could go down and execute and score," Bull said. "Even though we didn't have the ball, we felt like we were in control of the game, as long as we had the lead."
Bull told WWLS that he was "never too much for, or too much against" the shot clock.
Playing without one can give lesser teams a "fighting chance," he said, but having one "improves quality of play" and makes it "more entertaining" for players and fans, he said.
"I was definitely for the shot clock last night, I will put it that way," he said.
Final score: 4-2. 'Stall ball' provides more fuel for high school basketball shot clock debate
Minnesota will join the states adding a shot clock for high school basketball next season. A game like this one speaks to the reason why many people think that's necessary.
It's a thread from 2020 that was bumped, maybe just a Diet Pepsi.Needed to down a Pepsi while reading that........
Some legit points. Not sure what the shot clock currently is in Iowa, 30, 35? Here's how I feel about the bad teams getting sped up. If it's 30-35 seconds, that's more than enough time to actually run your offense. If you're not a great team, how many of those teams can actually run an offense for more than that time w/out turning it over. You can still playa slower paced game w/the shot clock. It's not like you have to just chuck it up once you get past halfcourt. Most teams are over the halfcourt line in 4-6 seconds. You should be able to then get 4-6 passes (or whatever else you are trying to do) in the other amount of time. To me it's not about the next level or any of that. And I'd say most teams are getting 80-90% of their shots off today w/out a shot clock w/in that time limit anyway.
